Soccer Forum Premier League Era Draft Game Thread

Liam O

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

He was never worth the money we payed for him and we did very well to get 30 million off utd.

I found he rated himself higher than he was, now he was a gifted player technically but i found him to be a good defender at best, liable to get caught in possession a little too often. In saying that his 3rd or 4th season with united he was proper class, but for a player who is always mentioned amongst the greatest players in premier league i think his a good bit behind Terry(really pains me to say it, as i really dislike him), Campbell & Adams

Rio was better on the ball and being the covering defender than all 3 of them. It's close in overall defensive skill but in terms of what he was asked to do once Vidic joined there was nobody in the world I'd rather have had playing that role.

A_Sober_Paddy

Liam O wrote: »

Rio was better on the ball and being the covering defender than all 3 of them. It's close in overall defensive skill but in terms of what he was asked to do once Vidic joined there was nobody in the world I'd rather have had playing that role.

I'll give you that, but i'd still rate a lot of other defenders(the 3 i previously mentioned) ahead of him overall IMHO

Without Vidic he was very ineffective and at time a liability, and my brother a massive utd fan agrees, his seen him play alot on tv and in the flesh too

Liam O

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

I'll give you that, but i'd still rate a lot of other defenders(the 3 i previously mentioned) ahead of him overall IMHO

Without Vidic he was very ineffective and at time a liability, and my brother a massive utd fan agrees, his seen him play alot on tv and in the flesh too

I wouldn't say that, he was better at carrying another defender than Vidic, probably due to the fact that he could communicate better with them. Both him and Vidic were worse without each other, they were the best partnership that's been seen in the league imo.

IncognitoMan

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

He was never worth the money we payed for him and we did very well to get 30 million off utd.

I found he rated himself higher than he was, now he was a gifted player technically but i found him to be a good defender at best, liable to get caught in possession a little too often. In saying that his 3rd or 4th season with united he was proper class, but for a player who is always mentioned amongst the greatest players in premier league i think his a good bit behind Terry(really pains me to say it, as i really dislike him), Campbell & Adams

Fair enough I can't say I agree I think he was definitely one of the best in the league during his time with United, well after the slow start with the ban. I think 30m for a player of his class who went on to play for the club for 12 years is money very well spent. Him vidic and Van der sar were a dream together

IncognitoMan

Rio brought out the best we've seen in Evans so far as well I think it's worth mentioning. Evans certainly has never looked anywhere near as good since as the time him and rio had a good run together in the team

Liam O

Would have preferred Wiltord but given I have 3 more picks and Sturridge and Ole's ability to play on the right I'm happy to take Solskjaer now.

Ferris_Bueller

Can't believe Solskjaer lasted this long. Presumably nobody needed him and everyone just let him slide, but I really thought he was going to go ages ago, good pick from Liam O but risky choosing a substitute before your starting eleven is picked!

Liam O

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

Can't believe Solskjaer lasted this long. Presumably nobody needed him and everyone just let him slide, but I really thought he was going to go ages ago, good pick from Liam O but risky choosing a substitute before your starting eleven is picked!

Will he be a substitute though I really have to get the memories of his play on the right out of my head as I don't think he'll be well received there. Also the option of Sturridge playing there too.

Edit: wiki doesn't help on this front by reminding me that Solskjaer was the one who displaced Beckham on the right while being good at both crossing and scoring from that position

Blatter

It wasn't for long but he was pretty good on the right. He was keeping Beckham out of the team at one stage, including that massive game at Highbury in 2003 in which Solskjaer provided the assist for Giggs' equaliser. His crossing was surprisingly excellent.

But yeah, it was such a short period it won't have been remembered.

eagle eye

Very happy with my first eleven. I've sent Frankie a pm as he is up next. When I took Hyypia I decided straight away that I would risk leaving it until the last round to take Henchoz.

redzerdrog

Think it is lloyd then me but am hitting the sack shortly. is lloyd online recently? anyone want to take my pick incase lloyd picks before the morning?

redzerdrog

Also can we clarify the rules on the subs as i was under the impression they were to make changes in tactic/formations between matches rather than say player x will come off the bench after 80 min?

Frankie Lee

redzerdrog wrote: »

Also can we clarify the rules on the subs as i was under the impression they were to make changes in tactic/formations between matches rather than say player x will come off the bench after 80 min?

I intended only for changes to be made between games, having players come off the bench is silly.

Pudsy33

I was wondering that, Ole becomes slightly less useful in that case.

Timmyctc

SherlockWatson is having a short hiatus from the forum so he has pm'd me his picks. Dat coo'?

Liam O

redzerdrog wrote: »

Also can we clarify the rules on the subs as i was under the impression they were to make changes in tactic/formations between matches rather than say player x will come off the bench after 80 min?

I was under the impression that you would give scenarios for your subs to be used? I.e. if I'm losing I can bring on Solskjaer and he would have a good chance of scoring. I don't really mind either way though.

bucketybuck

Liam O wrote: »

I was under the impression that you would give scenarios for your subs to be used? I.e. if I'm losing I can bring on Solskjaer and he would have a good chance of scoring. I don't really mind either way though.

I don't see why that would be a problem if somebody wants to type it out in their own writeups. I wouldn't be placing too much emphasis on it when voting though, the idea of a supersub doesn't really hold water to me. Solskjaer got goals as a sub because he was good enough to be starting in the first place, not because of any special substitute ability.

For me I will be using the subs to give options when picking the first eleven.

redzerdrog

Rob Jones was someone i had earmarked from the start. I was worried up until Lloyd picked Arbeloa. I was gona risk leaving him another round or two but decided it wasnt worth the risk.

Really happy with my starting 11 now and cant imagine it will change with the next 3 picks. There is 4 players still there that i cant believe werent picked yet though

LuckyLloyd

Yeah Jones should have gone higher. I took Arbeloa over him because his two and a half years were for a better team and it's an easier sell as people will have seen him play. But Jones was brilliant for the first couple of premiership years - I'd rather him at right back than O'Shea or Kelly that much is certain!!

Two more good 90's RBs out there still.

redzerdrog

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Yeah Jones should have gone higher. I took Arbeloa over him because his two and a half years were for a better team and it's an easier sell as people will have seen him play. But Jones was brilliant for the first couple of premiership years - I'd rather him at right back than O'Shea or Kelly that much is certain!!

Two more good 90's RBs out there still.

Yep and particularly be hard to sell alongside Walker for you! I had considered an unpicked CB from the same era but knew it be hard to sell both him and Jones.

LuckyLloyd

redzerdrog wrote: »

Yep and particularly be hard to sell alongside Walker for you! I had considered an unpicked CB from the same era but knew it be hard to sell both him and Jones.

I know who you're thinking of I'm fairly certain.

Lots of recency bias which is to be expected.

There is also a Center back who should have gone by now who is still playing. Would be a superior pick to Henchoz most certainly...

bucketybuck

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I know who you're thinking of I'm fairly certain.

Lots of recency bias which is to be expected.

There is also a Center back who should have gone by now who is still playing. Would be a superior pick to Henchoz most certainly...

I can think of 3 or 4 I'd have picked ahead of Henchoz.

GavRedKing

Timmyctc wrote: »

SherlockWatson is having a short hiatus from the forum so he has pm'd me his picks. Dat coo'?

Ya fire them up away

ASOT

Next after me is a closed account so I'm not sure what to do!

Liam O

ASOT wrote: »

Next after me is a closed account so I'm not sure what to do!

James has been picked so first order of business is to pick someone new

Pudsy has replaced Dildofaggins

LuckyLloyd

ASOT wrote: »

Next after me is a closed account so I'm not sure what to do!

Repick and then PM this guy:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/member.php?u=322076

ASOT

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Repick and then PM this guy:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/member.php?u=322076

The search function for threads is terrible on my phone I didn't Know James was picked, my new pick could be also but again didn't come up in the search haha

Will pm now cheers!

Third time lucky let's all forget that.

Pudsy33

Sherlock up next, who has his picks?

LuckyLloyd

Yikes at some of the keepers picked ahead of Tim Flowers!!

Pudsy33

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Yikes at some of the keepers picked ahead of Tim Flowers!!

As in he's a good pick or he's not?

LuckyLloyd

Pudsy33 wrote: »

As in he's a good pick or he's not?

As in he's a great pick!!

SlickRic

Flowers goes insanely late when you look at some of the other keepers picked before him.

It was a toss up for me between himself and Southall for the keeper jersey.

Great pick in round 11.

LuckyLloyd

My goalkeeper brackets for what we've picked thus far were:

Schmeicel, Seaman, Cech, Van Der Sar

Flowers, Friedel

Southall (would be higher if his peak years were in the Prem obv), De Gea, Reina

Howard, Given

James, Martyn, Hart

Liam O

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

My goalkeeper brackets for what we've picked thus far were:

Schmeicel, Seaman, Cech, Van Der Sar

Flowers, Friedel

Southall (would be higher if his peak years were in the Prem obv), De Gea, Reina

Howard, Given

James, Martyn, Hart

You wouldn't have Reina up there? I'd have him 5th in the list you have there. I also think it was easier for keepers to look good back then and the ball was easier to judge so would have recency bias on that front.

Skylinehead

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

My goalkeeper brackets for what we've picked thus far were:

Schmeicel, Seaman, Cech, Van Der Sar

Flowers, Friedel

Southall (would be higher if his peak years were in the Prem obv), De Gea, Reina

Howard, Given

James, Martyn, Hart

Blatter

Schmeichel has a claim of being the GOAT based purely on his time in the PL, something that the others don't IMO so I'd have him a bracket above the rest.

SlickRic

de Gea should not be on the same level as Southall or Reina yet IMO.

immensely talented, and could be a great, but he's not done much to warrant being on that level yet in terms of an all-time Premier League draft.

Hart = De Gea for the purposes of this as far as I'm concerned, as they've had as many outstanding years in the Premier League each.

Ferris_Bueller

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

My goalkeeper brackets for what we've picked thus far were:

Schmeicel, Seaman, Cech, Van Der Sar

Flowers, Friedel

Southall (would be higher if his peak years were in the Prem obv), De Gea, Reina

Howard, Given

James, Martyn, Hart

This is an example of where I get confused on how to judge players on their peak. If you are to judge players at their peak I think it's harsh to put Hart bottom of that list (he's my keeper so maybe I'm biased), he got into the PFA team of the year twice and won golden glove three years in a row and nailed down the England number 1 jersey, something that say David James could never really do. Southall is a keeper I've never properly seen play but was he really that good when he played his 5 years or so in the PL? David James and Brad Friedel had brilliant careers in the PL but of all the above keepers at their peaks they were the worst two for me, along with Tim Howard.

SlickRic

Southall was playing for Everton right up until 1998.

the Premier League did not coincide with his peak, but he was certainly up there.

he's not absolute top bracket for the purposes of this draft, but he should be considered IMO in a similar category to Flowers - only 4/5 keepers maybe ahead of him in the pecking order.

Liam O

Woodgate finally goes, was almost making me regret my relatively early CB picks.

bucketybuck

Liam O wrote: »

Woodgate finally goes, was almost making me regret my relatively early CB picks.

I'm happy with my picks and hadn't forgotten Woodgate when picking, but have been wondering for a long time now who was going to get him. Up until he left for Madrid he was easily one of the best in the business.

LuckyLloyd

Liam O wrote: »

You wouldn't have Reina up there? I'd have him 5th in the list you have there. I also think it was easier for keepers to look good back then and the ball was easier to judge so would have recency bias on that front.

No I wouldn't. None of those goalkeepers are any less than very good but we have to relatively rank them. Reina was very solid, but he made the odd mistake and was susceptible at times to tall aggressive teams at setpieces, etc.

Skylinehead wrote: »

Ha! Probably tier 2.

Blatter wrote: »

Schmeichel has a claim of being the GOAT based purely on his time in the PL, something that the others don't IMO so I'd have him a bracket above the rest.

Wouldn't really disagree with that.

SlickRic wrote: »

de Gea should not be on the same level as Southall or Reina yet IMO.

immensely talented, and could be a great, but he's not done much to warrant being on that level yet in terms of an all-time Premier League draft.

Hart = De Gea for the purposes of this as far as I'm concerned, as they've had as many outstanding years in the Premier League each.

Yeah, I could buy dropping De Gea down.

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

This is an example of where I get confused on how to judge players on their peak. If you are to judge players at their peak I think it's harsh to put Hart bottom of that list (he's my keeper so maybe I'm biased), he got into the PFA team of the year twice and won golden glove three years in a row and nailed down the England number 1 jersey, something that say David James could never really do. Southall is a keeper I've never properly seen play but was he really that good when he played his 5 years or so in the PL? David James and Brad Friedel had brilliant careers in the PL but of all the above keepers at their peaks they were the worst two for me, along with Tim Howard.

You're entitled to your opinion. Hart was the shining English light at City and I think he received praise over and above his actual level of performance. I think the fact that he's been in and out of the team recently is appropriate and I wouldn't have considered him a strength for that City team. He also is in a weak era for English goalkeepers - James had the likes of Seamen to contend with. He's a good goalkeeper, but we're ranking him relative to elites here.

Friedel was rock solid for a decade in the Premiership. Howard has been very, very good for teams in the top half of the table.

SlickRic wrote: »

Southall was playing for Everton right up until 1998.

the Premier League did not coincide with his peak, but he was certainly up there.

he's not absolute top bracket for the purposes of this draft, but he should be considered IMO in a similar category to Flowers - only 4/5 keepers maybe ahead of him in the pecking order.

As I say, if we were taking whole careers you could argue Southall as the GOAT eligible keeper for this draft. He was EXCEPTIONAL during the 80's and a huge asset to the Everton side that won the league.

======================

It's all opinion at the end of the day - just putting a ranking out there for discussion. Mission achieved as far as that goes!

LuckyLloyd

Liam O wrote: »

Woodgate finally goes, was almost making me regret my relatively early CB picks.

He was the 'still playing' center back I mentioned earlier. Injuries ruined his career but when he was on the pitch in his early twenties he was very, very good.

bucketybuck

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

As I say, if we were taking whole careers you could argue Southall as the GOAT eligible keeper for this draft. He was EXCEPTIONAL during the 80's and a huge asset to the Everton side that won the league.

In my opinion you are vastly overrating Southall. Sure he was a great goalkeeper, but he was also 35 when the Premier league started and Everton had a pretty torrid time in the 3/4 Premier league years he played. I was around at that time as well, and imo he is nowhere near the GOAT, and especially not a Premier league GOAT.

If performances in the 80's counted I'd have Bryan Robson in my team, but unfortunately I don't.

A_Sober_Paddy

I was actually looking g to see if Tim flowers went earlier last night, crazy he went so late. Also Sherwood is a good pick this late

LuckyLloyd

bucketybuck wrote: »

In my opinion you are vastly overrating Southall. Sure he was a great goalkeeper, but he was also 35 when the Premier league started and Everton had a pretty torrid time in the 3/4 Premier league years he played. I was around at that time as well, and imo he is nowhere near the GOAT, and especially not a Premier league GOAT.

If performances in the 80's counted I'd have Bryan Robson in my team, but unfortunately I don't.

I agree with that. I have been very clear saying performances in the 80's don't count.

bucketybuck

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I agree with that. I have been very clear saying performances in the 80's don't count.

Sorry, conflated your post with an earlier post saying Southall was up there with the best 4/5 keepers.

SlickRic

bucketybuck wrote: »

In my opinion you are vastly overrating Southall. Sure he was a great goalkeeper, but he was also 35 when the Premier league started and Everton had a pretty torrid time in the 3/4 Premier league years he played. I was around at that time as well, and imo he is nowhere near the GOAT, and especially not a Premier league GOAT.

If performances in the 80's counted I'd have Bryan Robson in my team, but unfortunately I don't.

i think you're underrating him.

yes, he was 35, but as if that is any argument whatsoever? Some of Friedel's best years were post 35 for instance. And he played for teams that struggled too. team struggles do not equal keeper struggling.

Southall is absolutely fine as a keeper in this draft. he'd come firmly under the category of 'not a strength, but not a weakness either'.

SlickRic

oh, and Chris Sutton is a nice battering ram to have as an option.

GavRedKing

Theres a player not taken yet that I thought would be snapped up in the later rounds, did a search, dont think hes gone.

Not a first 5 round pick but I thought he'd be gone by now. One to watch out for.