Soccer Forum Premier League Era Draft Game Thread

LuckyLloyd

**** Sake, went into select Ramires and Redzer has him snapped up ahead of me!

SlickRic

Ramires is a definite oversight on my part.

LuckyLloyd

SlickRic wrote: »

Ramires is a definite oversight on my part.

I purposely didn't mention him (or hint at his existence) when Sherwood and Nolan were taken because I knew he'd be perfect as a utility option. He's a super all round footballer.

eagle eye

I considered Ramires but while he has had the odd great game he has not been very consistent and the fact that he has never started 30 games in a Premier league campaign is big negative imo.

Morzadec

Berbatov a very nice pick imo at this stage. Peak years he was class. Offers something very different to Lloyd's team (thought every pick was going to be a 'real man' player!)

Berbatov and RVN is a strike force that would've been a joy to watch.

Flowers probably a good option at this late stage and better than some keepers before him

Don't remember much of Sherwood, but Premier League winning captain and being a long servant in the EPL probably make him a good value pick at this late stage.

Only half following this so haven't studied every team, but there's 2 or 3 teams that have caught my eye as favourite, and one team that I've already written off as no hopers. Won't name the teams. Will be interesting to see them all line out! Of course arguments/tactics will play a part too

Rushden

I have James as my keeper, being honest He was far from my first choice but other keepers I wanted were taken and he did have a good few excellent seasons. Only other one I considered was flowers he was at his peak when I was very young so don't really remember him. If Hart wasn't English I think he'd be at a mid table or Europa league club, i don't even think he's the best English keeper at the moment at a time when strength and depth in English keepers isn't very high . There's a few keepers that are a couple of levels above the rest of the pack really so maybe it was a smart move taking a keeper in earlier rounds

redzerdrog

regarding keepers id rank them

Schmiechal

Seaman Martyn Cech van der sar

flowers

Reina Friedel


the rest

redzerdrog

eagle eye wrote: »

I considered Ramires but while he has had the odd great game he has not been very consistent and the fact that he has never started 30 games in a Premier league campaign is big negative imo.

He has been a regular for chelsea for a few years being rested for 6/7 league matches for a team competing on several fronts isnt to be held against him.

When you consider a player who hasnt even 30 games in his premier league career went 5 or 6 rounds ago i thibk he is very good value for a 12 round pick

Skylinehead

redzerdrog wrote: »

regarding keepers id rank them

Schmiechal

Seaman Martyn Cech van der sar

flowers

Reina Friedel


the rest

Again,



:pac:

bucketybuck

redzerdrog wrote: »

When you consider a player who hasnt even 30 games in his premier league career went 5 or 6 rounds ago

Remind me?

redzerdrog

Ha forgot all about him id prob have him on the same tier as flowers

redzerdrog

bucketybuck wrote: »

Remind me?

Hargreaves

LuckyLloyd

bucketybuck wrote: »

Remind me?

Klinnsmann

IncognitoMan

redzerdrog wrote: »

When you consider a player who hasnt even 30 games in his premier league career went 5 or 6 rounds ago i thibk he is very good value for a 12 round pick

I presume you're talking about Hargreaves. Well this is to be picked on a players peak ability and Hargreaves was a better player than ramirez could ever hope to be.

Should have seen the problem picking Hargreaves would cause as nobody seems to understand the rules. My picks since have definitely racked up plenty of premier league appearances for those who wish to judge that way

redzerdrog

IncognitoMan wrote: »

I presume you're talking about Hargreaves. Well this is to be picked on a players peak ability and Hargreaves was a better player than ramirez could ever hope to be.

Should have seen the problem picking Hargreaves would cause as nobody seems to understand the rules. My picks since have definitely racked up plenty of premier league appearances for those who wish to judge that way

I dont think the Hargreaves that played 23 league games in his one fit season in the league is a better player than ramires in this draft. The player that played for Bayern may be.

You also have to consider relative value one was picked in the (5th/6th?????) round tge other is a 12 round substitute

Imo Hargreaves is terrible pick for this draft

LuckyLloyd

Yeah, Hargreaves really was a poor pick where he went

Andersonisgod

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

This is an example of where I get confused on how to judge players on their peak. If you are to judge players at their peak I think it's harsh to put Hart bottom of that list (he's my keeper so maybe I'm biased), he got into the PFA team of the year twice and won golden glove three years in a row and nailed down the England number 1 jersey, something that say David James could never really do. Southall is a keeper I've never properly seen play but was he really that good when he played his 5 years or so in the PL? David James and Brad Friedel had brilliant careers in the PL but of all the above keepers at their peaks they were the worst two for me, along with Tim Howard.

Schwarzer hasn't even made the list

Blatter

Slick I was looking at Sutton but he'd be incompatible with my team. Bergkamp is undroppable and the only way to fit him in would be to play a diamond with Bergkamp in behind himself and Shearer. But then I'd have Sutton and Shearer up front with no wingers, which wouldn't be great.

I'm too young to have seen what Southall was like in the early Prem years but anything I've heard/read was that he was still pretty good for a while.

I remember he was class in Masters football and Beardsley used to run the show :pac:

IncognitoMan

redzerdrog wrote: »

I dont think the Hargreaves that played 23 league games in his one fit season in the league is a better player than ramires in this draft. The player that played for Bayern may be.

Well in that one fit season he was an important member of the United side that won the league and champions league(although the champions league has little bearing on this) During that spell he was one of the best midfielders in the league. His peak. Which is the player i will have. After picking him as well some other poster remarked that he had Hargreaves in his sights. Maybe I went a round or 2 too early for him but I wanted the balance he would bring to my midfield. Peak Hargreaves is not a poor pick when you actually look at the rules of this draft.

eagle eye

Pick made, pm sent. I'm glad to add another great player to my squad. He is my favourite Rover's player ever, just loved watching the guy. He had such panache about him the way he stroked the ball around the field.

Frankie Lee

If I didn't have Scholes I would have picked Tugay ages ago, he was quality. You should work him into your first 11.

Nani is a great pick at this stage too.

bucketybuck

IncognitoMan wrote: »

you actually look at the rules of this draft.

It is disappointing that people have drifted away from what the original rules were. My original understanding was that you would have two hypothetical teams playing each other, and each player on the team would be the player from when they were at their peak in the Premier league. You set them up tactically and put it to the vote, which team would win this match!

So you have the Torres that was burning past Vidic. You have the Schmeichel that single handedly kept Newcastle at bay in 1996, and the goalscoring Cantona from that same season. You have the Bale that was so dominant for Spurs in 2013, and you have the Hargreaves that was so impressive in 2008.

Now it seems it isn't two teams playing each other, its just a list of players and the number of appearances is more important than what they offer the team. Of course the wider picture is important, reputation, success, longevity and all that, but its still supposed to be two teams playing, and if I had to pick a midfielder for that one match I'd still pick a peak Hargreaves over a peak Ramires.

Frankie Lee

bucketybuck wrote: »

It is disappointing that people have drifted away from what the original rules were. My original understanding was that you would have two hypothetical teams playing each other, and each player on the team would be the player from when they were at their peak in the Premier league. You set them up tactically and put it to the vote, which team would win this match!

So you have the Torres that was burning past Vidic. You have the Schmeichel that single handedly kept Newcastle at bay in 1996, and the goalscoring Cantona from that same season. You have the Bale that was so dominant for Spurs in 2013, and you have the Hargreaves that was so impressive in 2008.

Now it seems it isn't two teams playing each other, its just a list of players and the number of appearances is more important than what they offer the team. Of course the wider picture is important, reputation, success, longevity and all that, but its still supposed to be two teams playing, and if I had to pick a midfielder for that one match I'd still pick a peak Hargreaves over a peak Ramires.

That was the intention at the start alright, with having longevity and consistency being considered a bonus. I have to apologise for not setting out the criteria clearer at the start.

IncognitoMan

Fletcher in to replace Hargreaves. I feel at this stage people are going to vote against Hargreaves no matter what so he will drop to my bench and be replaced by Fletcher in the first 11

Liam O

bucketybuck wrote: »

It is disappointing that people have drifted away from what the original rules were. My original understanding was that you would have two hypothetical teams playing each other, and each player on the team would be the player from when they were at their peak in the Premier league. You set them up tactically and put it to the vote, which team would win this match!

So you have the Torres that was burning past Vidic. You have the Schmeichel that single handedly kept Newcastle at bay in 1996, and the goalscoring Cantona from that same season. You have the Bale that was so dominant for Spurs in 2013, and you have the Hargreaves that was so impressive in 2008.

Now it seems it isn't two teams playing each other, its just a list of players and the number of appearances is more important than what they offer the team. Of course the wider picture is important, reputation, success, longevity and all that, but its still supposed to be two teams playing, and if I had to pick a midfielder for that one match I'd still pick a peak Hargreaves over a peak Ramires.

It doesn't really affect your Hargreaves and Ramires comparison but longevity and length of time they played is going to have a huge effect on matchups because most are going to be similar in strength in a lot of positions.

Liam O

IncognitoMan wrote: »

Fletcher in to replace Hargreaves. I feel at this stage people are going to vote against Hargreaves no matter what so he will drop to my bench and be replaced by Fletcher in the first 11

This was a large reason in me taking Solskjaer as I'm not sure people will like Sturridge as my main striker.

redzerdrog

IncognitoMan wrote: »

Well in that one fit season he was an important member of the United side that won the league and champions league(although the champions league has little bearing on this) During that spell he was one of the best midfielders in the league. His peak. Which is the player i will have. After picking him as well some other poster remarked that he had Hargreaves in his sights. Maybe I went a round or 2 too early for him but I wanted the balance he would bring to my midfield. Peak Hargreaves is not a poor pick when you actually look at the rules of this draft.

You are focusing on the word peak to much yes we are getting players at there peak ability but you need to factor in the other criteria. If someones peak ability lasted 7/8 years they will be held in higher regard than someones peak ability of 7/8 months.

As was highlighted already Micheal Ricketts had a great half season but wont be picked on that peak. Anderson had two great games against Liverpool and Arsenal in his early utd should we take that as his peak?

No matter how much emphasis you want to put on peak Hargreaves is a poor pick. Eagle eye was arguing the fact that Ramires hasnt played 30 league games in a single season would be held against him I was mearly pointing out the relative value compared to a player who went many rounds previous.

As it happen I actually think Ramires would have been a better fit for your own team than Hargreaves tbh

IncognitoMan

Frankie Lee wrote: »

That was the intention at the start alright, with having longevity and consistency being considered a bonus. I have to apologise for not setting out the criteria clearer at the start.

Criteria was clear enough I just don't think posters have looked at the rules before making judgements on players.

Pudsy33

Ok I just made a pick but I dont think its my go? Cant find the last few posters in sequence on the list anywhere

redzerdrog

Fletcher is a good pick actually

Should have waited until all the rounds were finished before highlighting the Hargreaves pick

bucketybuck

Liam O wrote: »

It doesn't really affect your Hargreaves and Ramires comparison but longevity and length of time they played is going to have a huge effect on matchups because most are going to be similar in strength in a lot of positions.

And rightly so, my concern relates more to people who will rate a clearly inferior player above another simply because of stats unrelated to the players ability.

Pudsy33

Yeah it aint me, incognito man I think ferrisbueler is next

IncognitoMan

redzerdrog wrote: »

You are focusing on the word peak to much yes we are getting players at there peak ability but you need to factor in the other criteria. If someones peak ability lasted 7/8 years they will be held in higher regard than someones peak ability of 7/8 months.

As was highlighted already Micheal Ricketts had a great half season but wont be picked on that peak. Anderson had two great games against Liverpool and Arsenal in his early utd should we take that as his peak?

No matter how much emphasis you want to put on peak Hargreaves is a poor pick. Eagle eye was arguing the fact that Ramires hasnt played 30 league games in a single season would be held against him I was mearly pointing out the relative value compared to a player who went many rounds previous.

As it happen I actually think Ramires would have been a better fit for your own team than Hargreaves tbh

I asked the question at the start specifically if a player had a longer career in the league would he be regarded as a better player and the answer we all came to was only in a situation where players were of equal quality would we look at something like their longevity.

Im not focusing on the word peak too much i'm using it as its the main criteria on which we are to judge players

IncognitoMan

Pudsy33 wrote: »

Yeah it aint me, incognito man I think ferrisbueler is next

Yeah sorry I looked at the order and for some reason thought Ferris Bueller was the poster that dropped out. I'll PM him now

Liam O

Very happy how my team has turned out, can't imagine anyone being ousted in the next 2 picks but there's a decision to be made between Solskjaer and Sturridge.

redzerdrog

IncognitoMan wrote: »

I asked the question at the start specifically if a player had a longer career in the league would he be regarded as a better player and the answer we all came to was only in a situation where players were of equal quality would we look at something like their longevity.

Im not focusing on the word peak too much i'm using it as its the main criteria on which we are to judge players

So were do you draw the line on what constitutes being peak ability rather than purple patch.

1 game? 5 games? 24 games? 1 Season?

There is an unpicked player who had an amazing half season and hasnt been picked yet which is rightfully so. The whole concept of a draft is getting as much value for your picks while also balancing your team. The unpicked player will be a decent pick at this stage but wouldnt have been 6 rounds ago.

Nani is a perfect example was his good season his peak ability or just a purple patch? He is a good pick at this stage but wouldnt have been early in the draft

IncognitoMan

Which center midfielders picked after I picked Hargreaves are better players so?

Liam O

redzerdrog wrote: »

So were do you draw the line on what constitutes being peak ability rather than purple patch.

1 game? 5 games? 24 games? 1 Season?

There is an unpicked player who had an amazing half season and hasnt been picked yet which is rightfully so. The whole concept of a draft is getting as much value for your picks while also balancing your team. The unpicked player will be a decent pick at this stage but wouldnt have been 6 rounds ago.

Nani is a perfect example was his good season his peak ability or just a purple patch? He is a good pick at this stage but wouldnt have been early in the draft

Nani is not a perfect example considering he was among the best in the league for 2 years.

redzerdrog

IncognitoMan wrote: »

Which center midfielders picked after I picked Hargreaves are better players so?

For the purpose of this draft most of them

A player with 16 league starts is too small of a sample size to class that as a peak performance we may as well judge everyones peak by the week they make Garth Crooks team of the week.

bucketybuck

redzerdrog wrote: »

For the purpose of this draft most of them

A player with 16 league starts is too small of a sample size to class that as a peak performance we may as well judge everyones peak by the week they make Garth Crooks team of the week.

I don't want to go to the wall defending Hargreaves, but there is a difference between him and some guy like Wanchope who had a good run and then disappeared. Hargreaves didn't have a massive number of appearances, but he did have the previous history and the international record to demonstrate that his one season at United was not just a fluke, he had the genuine ability and had shown that.

Number of appearances is a factor, but you shouldn't be a slave to it either, most fans can tell the difference between a quality but injury prone player and some lad who had a good ten game spell then never to be seen again.

IncognitoMan

redzerdrog wrote: »

For the purpose of this draft most of them

Quite the opposite my friend for the purpose of this draft its one of the few times you should be able to pick a player like him because we are focused on their peak ability. If you think that his 2007/2008 season isn't good enough to get him onto a team in this, fair enough.

redzerdrog

bucketybuck wrote: »

I don't want to go to the wall defending Hargreaves, but there is a difference between him and some guy like Wanchope who had a good run and then disappeared. Hargreaves didn't have a massive number of appearances, but he did have the previous history and the international record to demonstrate that his one season at United was not just a fluke, he had the genuine ability and had shown that.

Number of appearances is a factor, but you shouldn't be a slave to it either, most fans can tell the difference between a quality but injury prone player and some lad who had a good ten game spell then never to be seen again.

I loved Jari Litmanan at Liverpool but he wont get picked here even though he showed some of his brilliance at Liverpool even though it was no fluke as he had shown it previously at Ajax and Barca.

redzerdrog

by the way I think Hargreaves was an excellent player when fit

IncognitoMan

I gave serious thought to getting Song. He had a very good relationship with RVP for Arsenal.

ASOT

IncognitoMan wrote: »

I gave serious thought to getting Song. He had a very good relationship with RVP for Arsenal.

Yep some of his assists were magical and that's coming from a pool fan who he done one against.

bucketybuck

redzerdrog wrote: »

I loved Jari Litmanan at Liverpool but he wont get picked here even though he showed some of his brilliance at Liverpool even though it was no fluke as he had shown it previously at Ajax and Barca.

I think the difference is that Litmanan didn't actually show his brilliance at Liverpool, not in any meaningful way. He didn't play even when fit and had problems with Houllier. On the other hand Hargreaves did have an impact, he contributed and was an important figure for United that season.

redzerdrog

bucketybuck wrote: »

I think the difference is that Litmanan didn't actually show his brilliance at Liverpool, not in any meaningful way. He didn't play even when fit and had problems with Houllier. On the other hand Hargreaves did have an impact, he contributed and was an important figure for United that season.

Fair point

IncognitoMan

Ah Van Der Vaart I'd completely forgotten him which is strange as I used to love him for the fantasy

Skylinehead

Liam O wrote: »

Very happy how my team has turned out, can't imagine anyone being ousted in the next 2 picks but there's a decision to be made between Solskjaer and Sturridge.

Very strong team. Only issue I can see is there might well be a gap between the forwards and midfield, as Makelele and Alonso both naturally sit quite deep.

bucketybuck

Liam O wrote: »

Very happy how my team has turned out, can't imagine anyone being ousted in the next 2 picks but there's a decision to be made between Solskjaer and Sturridge.

I'd probably go for Sturridge, simply because people might be unsure about seeing Solskjaer leading the line on his own, that wasn't really his game.