After Hours

Cantremember

not sure if this is correct forum. I've noticed since my return to Boards after a few years absence something odd: there's a good number of posters with reg dates around 2012 who post questions about religion in AH. It's actually a way of promoting discussion about religion.

My point is this: AH bans advertising and politics. Shouldn't religion be moved to the appropriate forum too. All good pubs avoid religion and politics so I'm asking AH to consider that threads about religion be moved to the religion forum.

People who want to talk about mass and St Stephen can meet like minded people there.

Benny_Cake

Cantremember wrote: »

not sure if this is correct forum. I've noticed since my return to Boards after a few years absence something odd: there's a good number of posters with reg dates around 2012 who post questions about religion in AH. It's actually a way of promoting discussion about religion.

My point is this: AH bans advertising and politics. Shouldn't religion be moved to the appropriate forum too. All good pubs avoid religion and politics so I'm asking AH to consider that threads about religion be moved to the religion forum.

People who want to talk about mass and St Stephen can meet like minded people there.

There is no religion forum.

There are forums for individual religions as well as a forum for discussing non-belief and critiquing religion. I can only speak with regard to the Christianity forum when I say that a thread such as "I didn't go to Mass today" would be locked, it simply isn't a serious thread. This doesn't reflect on AH at all, different forums, different charters, different tones.

A "Religion Cafe" similar to the politics equivalent might be possible, but it would probably end up duplicating a lot of the threads in A&A so there would be little point.

BlaasForRafa

Cantremember wrote: »

My point is this: AH bans advertising and politics. Shouldn't religion be moved to the appropriate forum too. All good pubs avoid religion and politics so I'm asking AH to consider that threads about religion be moved to the religion forum.

People who want to talk about mass and St Stephen can meet like minded people there.

AH is like the middle ground where stuff can be thrashed out. Otherwise you'd have atheists messing up the christianity forum and christians going into the atheism forum and making a mess there, it's handier just to have the more trivial stuff handled in AH

RDM_83 again

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

AH is like the middle ground where stuff can be thrashed out. Otherwise you'd have atheists messing up the christianity forum and christians going into the atheism forum and making a mess there, it's handier just to have the more trivial stuff handled in AH

I agree with the above but I would guess a fair few of the threads could be moved to the Atheism forum since thats the general gist of them anyway and they would appear to be similar to some of the mega threads in that forum anyway in tone.
(I refuse to add the agnostic too it :P since the Agnostic Theist position isn't exactly popular there

Micky Dolenz

I agree,religion has no place in AH.

Nodin

Cantremember wrote: »

not sure if this is correct forum. I've noticed since my return to Boards after a few years absence something odd: there's a good number of posters with reg dates around 2012 who post questions about religion in AH. It's actually a way of promoting discussion about religion.

My point is this: AH bans advertising and politics. Shouldn't religion be moved to the appropriate forum too. All good pubs avoid religion and politics so I'm asking AH to consider that threads about religion be moved to the religion forum.

People who want to talk about mass and St Stephen can meet like minded people there.

You're under no obligation to participate in the threads.

Insect Overlord

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I agree,religion has no place in AH.

What about societal traditions and social customs? Because you're in danger of losing threads about St Patrick's Day, Christmas, Hallowe'en, communions, christenings...

Micky Dolenz

Public holidays are just that for many people. Specific personal religious ceremonies can be catered for in the relevant religion forum.

Fr_Dougal

Cantremember wrote: »

All good pubs avoid religion and politics so I'm asking AH to consider that threads about religion be moved to the religion forum.

Can you explain the line in bold please. Firstly it does not make sense, and secondly I have never, ever heard of bar management telling their customers what they should and shouldn't discuss.

Cantremember

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Can you explain the line in bold please. Firstly it does not make sense, and secondly I have never, ever heard of bar management telling their customers what they should and shouldn't discuss.

It's an old practice which may have fallen by the wayside. Mixing alcohol and these topics leads to trouble in my experience.

Cabaal

Cantremember wrote: »

It's an old practice which may have fallen by the wayside. Mixing alcohol and these topics leads to trouble in my experience.

I've never heard of politics and religion not being allowed in pubs or even frowned upon and I grew up in a pub.

Discussions in pubs will always cover a wide range of subjects, much life after hours. It's the groups of people in the pub that choose the topics.

So while one table might talk about the weather, another might talk about the budget.... Much like after hours threads.

If you don't like the topic, then don't take part. Again much like after hours threads.

Ironically the most troublesome topic to start on after hours is football, not religion. Hence why football posts get moved.

Cantremember

Cabaal wrote: »

I've never heard of politics and religion not being allowed in pubs or even frowned upon and I grew up in a pub.

Discussions in pubs will always cover a wide range of subjects, much life after hours. It's the groups of people in the pub that choose the topics.

So while one table might talk about the weather, another might talk about the budget.... Much like after hours threads.

If you don't like the topic, then don't take part. Again much like after hours threads.

Ironically the most troublesome topic to start on after hours is football, not religion. Hence why football posts get moved.

I said good pubs.

Only joking. I think some recent threads have caused trouble.

Micky Dolenz

Sex, religion and politics should never be discussed in company.

It's an old saying as it causes arguments. Nit saying I agree with it but I thought it was a fairly well know saying.

Cantremember

Cabaal wrote: »

If you don't like the topic, then don't take part. Again much like after hours

That doesn't make any sense: I have things to say about religion and if there's a thread where I want to make a point I will. There already is a place for religion so if people want to talk about it, go there. Like the table you sit at in your pub.

thesandeman

Cantremember wrote: »

It's an old practice which may have fallen by the wayside. Mixing alcohol and these topics leads to trouble in my experience.

Not fallen by the wayside by any means.
In 30 years in the game, the only times I've had to wander into a group to pick up imaginary glasses is when my radar picks up a politics or religion debate developing.

Cabaal

Cantremember wrote: »

That doesn't make any sense: I have things to say about religion and if there's a thread where I want to make a point I will. There already is a place for religion so if people want to talk about it, go there. Like the table you sit at in your pub.

By the same logic,
All government policy related topics should be only discussed in politics. (Irish water etc)
News and media items should be covered in media forum.
General rants should be moved to rants forum.
Devores depression thread should be moved to health forum or personal issues
Etc

By your very logic there's no need for after hours as forums exist that cover all of the above topics and more! .

You don't seem to understand after hours at all, as previously stated. If you don't like religious related threads in after hours then perhaps don't read or post in them. Perhaps instead follow your own advice and stick to the Catholic, Islam etc forums.

Cantremember

Cabaal wrote: »

By the same logic,
All government policy related topics should be only discussed in politics. (Irish water etc)
News and media items should be covered in media forum.
General rants should be moved to rants forum.
Devores depression thread should be moved to health forum or personal issues
Etc

By your very logic there's no need for after hours as forums exist that cover all of the above topics and more! .

You don't seem to understand after hours at all, as previously stated. If you don't like religious related threads in after hours then perhaps don't read or post in them. Perhaps instead follow your own advice and stick to the Catholic, Islam etc forums.

The first point I was making was that if there's a topic about which I have an opinion then I'll participate. I may not like the topic eg water charges but I have the same "right" as anyone on boards to contribute. Maybe you'd prefer if I didn't but there it is.

AH already bans two topics completely. At least one of the CMods for AH has expressed a view that religion should be moved so I think they would have at least as good an understanding of AH as yourself.

I don't think everything should be moved: just topics that have a more combustible nature. And the logic I was using was your metaphor of the different tables in the pub. I'm not getting drawn into a tit for tat here: I've made my points. Happy new year.

padd b1975

Nodin wrote: »

You're under no obligation to participate in the threads.

You would never think that the way you follow posters around a thread haranguing them over some trivial point.

dr.bollocko

If you remove a religious thread to the forum that supports said religion you stifle debate. If you move a religious thread to an atheism forum you stifle debate. AH should be capable of being a neutral ground. Also religion and current affairs regularly intersect which would not make the topic suitable for a one sided discussion either on a religious forum or on an atheist forum.

MadsL

*awaits the creation of Religion Cafe as an AH subforum*

I think trying to make Politics Cafe work has ruined AH, I hope we don't see threads with a religious topic moved out of AH in the same way.

Ruu

What makes you think it hasn't worked? We recently had data to suggest otherwise after looking at it from a team, page views, posts etc. from this time last year and the previous months. Just looking at the forum page suggests it is working as intended. Anyway this is slightly off topic. Wouldn't think another sub forum is in the works.

What dr. b said.

Poor Uncle Tom

dr.bollocko wrote: »

AH should be capable of being a neutral ground.

Agreed, however most viewpoints on religion are not neutral.

During any good debate there is the notion that any participants viewpoint is flexible enough that if you put up a valid opposing persuasive argument that you may be able to alter that viewpoint or at least provide enough fodder for further consideration.

I have found that when dealing with religion or politics, peoples viewpoints are generally ingrained in stone and any debate will just light the fuse of immobility, just leading to heated discussion, exasperated namecalling and exhausted indignation, but rarely ever a budge in viewpoint.

dr.bollocko wrote: »

Also religion and current affairs regularly intersect which would not make the topic suitable for a one sided discussion either on a religious forum or on an atheist forum.

And I would say this is enough of a reason as to why it would not be suitable for AH, each thread just setting out on a loop of verbal infinity.

Cantremember

dr.bollocko wrote: »

If you remove a religious thread to the forum that supports said religion you stifle debate. If you move a religious thread to an atheism forum you stifle debate. AH should be capable of being a neutral ground. Also religion and current affairs regularly intersect which would not make the topic suitable for a one sided discussion either on a religious forum or on an atheist forum.

It's strange to see a mod saying that forums dedicated to particular topics stifle debate in them.

Cantremember

Ruu wrote: »

What makes you think it hasn't worked? We recently had data to suggest otherwise after looking at it from a team, page views, posts etc. from this time last year and the previous months. Just looking at the forum page suggests it is working as intended. Anyway this is slightly off topic. Wouldn't think another sub forum is in the works.

What dr. b said.

Not off topic at all imho. Sub forums manage some topics better.

shruikan2553

Cantremember wrote: »

It's strange to see a mod saying that forums dedicated to particular topics stifle debate in them.

You need to be very careful with what you say in the religion forums as they are mostly a place for people of that religion to discuss about that religion. Then most of the people in that forum will be of that religion so you arent exactly going to get a balanced view on a topic.

MadsL

Ruu wrote: »

What makes you think it hasn't worked? We recently had data to suggest otherwise after looking at it from a team, page views, posts etc. from this time last year and the previous months. Just looking at the forum page suggests it is working as intended. Anyway this is slightly off topic. Wouldn't think another sub forum is in the works.

What dr. b said.

I don't have the data you have so this is purely subjective, but threads in Politics Cafe seem very slow moving. On the other side, AH now has a thinner range of threads.

Cabaal

shruikan2553 wrote: »

You need to be very careful with what you say in the religion forums as they are mostly a place for people of that religion to discuss about that religion. Then most of the people in that forum will be of that religion so you arent exactly going to get a balanced view on a topic.

Spot on,
A thread in Christian forum where Christians mainly hang out will of course have a very unbalanced view if a thread not favorable to Christians is started. i mean at the end of the day, how many people from After Hours have actually visited one of the religion forums?

The same can be said for Islam etc. Hell even none religion can have this too in the atheism forum.

LuckyLloyd

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I agree, in my opinion religion has no place in AH.

Fixed that for you. Your view on the limited AH you'd prefer is not shared by all, try to remember that.

One eyed Jack

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Fixed that for you. Your view on the limited AH you'd prefer is not shared by all, try to remember that.

Is it not implicit in the post itself that it is their opinion? Must we now preface every post with "in my opinion" or is it generally understood by other posters, in your opinion?

As a CMOD of Rec of which AH is under their remit, I would suggest their opinion with regard to what goes on in AH is worth quite a bit more than an ordinary members opinion.

(Although given they're posting in Feedback about something AH related, I'm not sure if the "Mods outside their own forums are ordinary posters" idea applies or not. That's the only part for me would cause confusion at times).

With regard to the OP and the whole idea of "religion in AH", this has been discussed numerous times in Feedback already, (just do a search like I did, plenty of threads on it) and the general consensus seems to be that it's perfectly acceptable to disseminate and discuss religions and the various religious beliefs, and the argument made for it was that religious beliefs are intrinsically intertwined in Irish society and have an impact on Irish society.

That's a perfectly reasonable point of view and I think we should discuss these issues, and I think they can be discussed in AH. That rarely ever happens though, discussion I mean. Instead what seems to happen is the threads end up in a muck slinging match and who can appear to be the most morally superior and humanitarian, all the while insulting people left, right and centre. It really does appear like the basic rules of Boards ("attack the post, not the poster", "don't be a dick") are completely abandoned and I imagine the Mods drawing straws amongst themselves as to who's going to intervene in the shìtstorm.

Civil discussion just doesn't happen, it's just the usual rabble rousing, petty insults for thanks, finger wagging moralising, ill informed generalisations, mouthing off on social media, and no attempt made to understand where other posters are coming from (if you're not entirely with us, you're against us), mob mentality, group think, and if anyone is expecting nuanced discussion, fcuk that craic, extremist opinion is where it's at apparently.

Like I said, I'm all for discussion of religion and religious beliefs and how they impact upon society in AH, but I can completely understand if someone wanted the discussion moved out of AH to another forum where posters would have to raise their game and discuss the actual issues, instead of merely trading insults and snide remarks aimed at each other which gets nobody anywhere and is just tiresome to read for anyone who isn't an extremist, or simply anyone who isn't interested in trolling other posters looking for thanks.

I'm glad Boards isn't like Facebook, but jesus christ AH isn't far bloody off it at times. It's one of my favourite forums, and just to keep things in perspective - these threads are only a tiny amount of what's posted in AH, but they're clearly the most contentious time sinks.

shruikan2553

Cabaal wrote: »

Spot on,
A thread in Christian forum where Christians mainly hang out will of course have a very unbalanced view if a thread not favorable to Christians is started. i mean at the end of the day, how many people from After Hours have actually visited one of the religion forums?

The same can be said for Islam etc. Hell even none religion can have this too in the atheism forum.

Looking at AH now there are about 6 threads with religious themes. If we moved them to their relevant forum most if not all would have been closed, half the posters in all of them would probably be banned and starting threads in feedback complaining about just telling it as it is and the mods are biased.

Although in the case of the threads about France, it is in the news so has more of a reason to be kept in AH but most threads about Islam end up the same there.

The only one I could see remaining open is the atheist thread and that would probably have become about biscuits by now. Oddly out of the the Islam related threads going on now the one in A&A is the calmest. Suppose it is mostly regulars there who know how it works in the forum.

Probably best to move some threads to their own forum but most tend to be more suited for an audience of everyone as otherwise it just makes it impossible to talk about certain topics. I find find AH can be a bit hostile at times, funnily the people who give out about atheism tend to be people who were banned from A&A.