The Tipperary GAA (Club and intercounty) Discussion thread 2015

digzy

evolving tipperary wrote: »

Plenty of strength in our squad - it's a squad that has contested more All-Irelands than not. Ridiculous to suggest otherwise...there's only one team with a better squad - so how can we have anything approaching a lack of strength in depth...there's all-irelands on the bench....


Imagine being Conor O'Brien today - the most pressure on you is coming from your own supposed supporters...tragic...

He'll be good - he rarely lets Tipp down - quite a good performer - anybody who thinks otherwise is a fair weather supporter.


Two things might happen today - we could saunter it or look in trouble with ten to go - and Noel and Lar to come on and change it.

I presume that's a dig at me....

I sincerely doubt Conor is worried about what an anonymous poster on a chat forum says about him! I hope he's a blinder for us today. Fair enough you've a high opinion of him. I don't rate him and any objective supporter can see that he's one of our weakest players and I guarantee you Galway will target him today as will the cats if we get there.

As regards our much vaunted squad, if you exclude Cahill, there's not much pressure coming on the backs from the bench. We've nobody to put on pressure at midfield and bar Larry (in a good day) and noel the fwds pick themselves.
Once again, would love to be wrong. Let's see...

evolving tipperary

You presume wrong. There's a lot of criticism that comes at C O'Brien and not just on this forum...

I don't rate O'Brien highly - but I respect him and apart from KK and Tipp he'd make every other county team.

Who puts pressure on Conor Fogarty and Fennelly? Lester Ryan? No. Even when Fennelly is half fit he is picked


C O'M, Breen, Bourke, Gar Ryan (both for midfield and half forward), John McGrath and more = all fine subs. Tipperary are at the top table of championship hurling for quite some time and the squad reflects that, no matter what changes. IN relation to KK, it has not been as strong and no other county has come close to them for a long time. So, no, I don't buy into an argument which suggests Tipp don't have strength in depth. Second to KK's squad, yes.

Ompala

Minors overplaying the ball big time

digzy

Ompala wrote: »

Minors overplaying the ball big time

Few handy players for us. Lyndon fairbrother, what a name!

buggy beag

When the game was in the melting pot last couple of mins they wanted it more same ol same ol fair play to galway cant see em winning the final but il b rooting for them

digzy

Huge issues up front. Bar callinan they were all poor. Even bubbles who was quieter than I've ever seen him. Same issues as always. Forwards who can't win their own ball and work rate not good enough to pressure the Galway backs. Compare that to the Galway work rate when paidie was hooked towards the end for a point.

Shane mc grath was poor. Paudie made his usual few blunders but was punished. Tbf conor o brien did ok.

So much for 'the squad'. Bourke was first sub and was subbed himself. Lar and Noel were on too late. Last we'll be seeing of lar I suspect.

Callinan was majestic. We had the look of a team waiting for something to happen...

citykat

digzy wrote: »

Huge issues up front. Bar callinan they were all poor. Even bubbles who was quieter than I've ever seen him. Same issues as always. Forwards who can't win their own ball and work rate not good enough to pressure the Galway backs. Compare that to the Galway work rate when paidie was hooked towards the end for a point.

Shane mc grath was poor. Paudie made his usual few blunders but was punished. Tbf conor o brien did ok.

So much for 'the squad'. Bourke was first sub and was subbed himself. Lar and Noel were on too late. Last we'll be seeing of lar I suspect.

Callinan was majestic. We had the look of a team waiting for something to happen...

Bonner tbf gave his all as usual.

Tipperary animal lover

Still sick as fook lads after that

Firstly, a huge congratulations to Galway and best of luck to them in the final. They played with fantastic hunger and intensity today. I wouldnt begrudge them the big prize to be honest and certainly not Anthony Cunningham, a top coach, a hurling fanatic and all round class guy who was treated abysmally by his county board last winter. No disrespect to a top class Kilkenny side but id love to see a new name on the trophy since we're not going to have our own etched on it.


As for ourselves, you wouldnt think we were a county that suffered so much hurt and lacked incentive today but yet again in another tight contest we were second best and its been the hallmark of the O'shea reign. I dont think we lacked physicality but our decision making on occasion needs to be looked at. do we ever take a good long hard look at ourselves and try iron out these silly errors or are we fully invested in the 'belief system'?

We gave away position cheaply and made stupid errors. Got caught not marking from sidelines too and played ourselves into trouble from the puckouts. O'Shea made a remarkable statement that Seamie needed more help in the forwards. So his solution was to bring Shane Bourke on in the second half? With the greatest respect to Bourke we needed ballwinners or at least lads who have proven they can make things happen. Shane Bourke is not a lad for a game with high intensity.

Eamon is a genuine good man and i wish him well for the future as he has us back hurling at a very high standard. He leaves Tipperary in a good place but in my honest opinion we need and deserve a bit more nous from management. They'll have to be a bit more cuter and self aware. We apparently have a video analyst? is he being used or is he bringing anything to our awareness?

Very very crestfallen after todays result. To the neutral it was a thriller and an epic and to be fair having watched TSG highlights it was, but why are we not more battle hardened at this stage given all the big game experience we have had? You can bet that Kilkenny will have all their homework done for the final.

One final note, i seen exactly what the Kilkenny supporters were referrring to today when i had to witness first hand some outrageous decisions from Barry Kelly. One more notably when Ronan Maher (i think it was) got a perfect hook in on the Galway forward and was pulled up for a foul.

Paarthurnax

Tipperary animal lover wrote: »

Still sick as fook lads after that

Yeah! I know that feeling, i'm just watching the whole game back on rte player before I make my judgement.

digzy

digzy wrote: »

Few handy players for us. Lyndon fairbrother, what a name!

Lyndon is as honest as the day is long. Great younglad and loads of bottle. Really impressed with Tommy Nolan and Alan Tynan also. Nolan is a bit of class. Drom must be smacking their lips at the prospect of himself and Seamie in the forwards in a couple of years.

digzy

Good point tg

Our marking from their sidelines was poor. It's actually amazing we weren't further behind given the return from our fwds. Seamus callanan saved us from a right drubbing.

Don't wanna be too harsh on eos given he's gone anyway but I think a change mightn't be the worst thing...

Was waiting for cant well to ask him if he was gonna consider his position in the interview.....yes Joanne I'm actually gonna stay .....

Mantis Toboggan

Heartbroken, can't give me opinion until tomorrow.

The Lost Sheep

digzy wrote: »

Good point tg

Our marking from their sidelines was poor. It's actually amazing we weren't further behind given the return from our fwds. Seamus callanan saved us from a right drubbing.

Don't wanna be too harsh on eos given he's gone anyway but I think a change mightn't be the worst thing...

Was waiting for cant well to ask him if he was gonna consider his position in the interview.....yes Joanne I'm actually gonna stay .....

A change mightn't be the worst thing but is our new head coach/manager the right call? Is Michael Ryan going to bring Tipperary forward from what EOS has done. Would a brand new voice etc not be better for us?

digzy

digzy wrote: »

Good point tg

Our marking from their sidelines was poor. It's actually amazing we weren't further behind given the return from our fwds. Seamus callanan saved us from a right drubbing.

Don't wanna be too harsh on eos given he's gone anyway but I think a change mightn't be the worst thing...

Was waiting for cant well to ask him if he was gonna consider his position in the interview.....yes Joanne I'm actually gonna stay .....

Ive the greatest of time for EOS as a man and as a hurling man. He's a real gent but in terms of being ruthless and clinical enough to carve out wins he is far too noble. The Shane Bourke introduction made absolutely no sense whatsoever to me today. It was even more baffling and nonsensical then the introduction of Eoin Kelly in the final last year. Last year Kilkenny were tired and on the ropes and we introduced a player whose legs were completely gone for that level instead of going all out to drive another nail in and introduce the likes of Denis Maher who is a young hungry ballwinner. And the gas things is Kelly, like Bourke was dropped off the panel weeks prior. How are the subs being picked at all? A lotto ball draw?

I dont like to run down amateurs but having travelled most of the country following this team and the underage footballers and hurlers this year i dont think its unreasonable to expect at least a 10% build on the success of last year.

Time for Tipperary to start getting that little bit more hungry in their approach. The fans deserve it and the team deserve it.

The Lost Sheep

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

A change mightn't be the worst thing but is our new head coach/manager the right call? Is Michael Ryan going to bring Tipperary forward from what EOS has done. Would a brand new voice etc not be better for us?

Now thats a fair point Lost Sheep. Has o'shea set a template for Mick Ryan to follow or will Mick take a more pragmatic approach?

In one way i would have been all on for continuity being kept in 2016 in terms of having learned lessons after winning in 2010.

When Sheedy, Eamon, and Mick left then we were left holding our knobs and as much as I criticised Deccy and Tommy at the time, they were reluctant men put in a difficult situation. They put the hand up out of a sense of duty. So in terms of that experience i would have been all on for some form of continuity to be maintained.

On the other hand, other candidates have emerged in recent times. Eamon Kelly, Brian Horgan and Brendan Cummins for example has done a terrific job down in Kerry, Andy Moloney and Colm Bonnar have done outstanding work in both WIT and Ballyhale, Willie Maher plied his trade under Derek Mcgrath last year (& Dublin this year) and has instilled new confidence in his club Ballingarry who have been a ramshackle with years, and Michael Ryan from Fethard still roams without a job despite back to back all ireland success in 2012 and 2013 and then there is Liam Cahill who has been mightily impressive in grinding out tight wins with our minors and has placed huge emphasis on workrate

The setup is good.

Charlie69

Eddie Brennan in the Sunday Times today spoke of Kilkenny's desire to have another crack at Cork in the final of 2005 having been beaten by them in the final the previous year, and as a result of having one eye on Cork instead of being fully focused on Galway , ended up losing the semi-final in an absolute classic by 5-18 to 4-18.

Do the Tipp fans think that maybe Tipp were guilty of falling into this trap or is that a little unfair on Galway?

Charlie69

Charlie69 wrote: »

Eddie Brennan in the Sunday Times today spoke of Kilkenny's desire to have another crack at Cork in the final of 2005 having been beaten by them in the final the previous year, and as a result of having one eye on Cork instead of being fully focused on Galway , ended up losing the semi-final in an absolute classic by 5-18 to 4-18.

Do the Tipp fans think that maybe Tipp were guilty of falling into this trap or is that a little unfair on Galway?

Fair point. Could be possible. Although if this is the case today, then the lesson of underestimating and losing twice to Limerick in 13 and 14 must have been completely lost on our lads

evolving tipperary

No worst, there is none. Pitched past pitch of grief,
More pangs will, schooled at forepangs, wilder wring.
Comforter, where, where is your comforting?
Mary, mother of us, where is your relief?
My cries heave, herds-long; huddle in a main, a chief
Woe, wórld-sorrow; on an áge-old anvil wince and sing —
Then lull, then leave off. Fury had shrieked 'No ling-
ering! Let me be fell: force I must be brief."'

O the mind, mind has mountains; cliffs of fall
Frightful, sheer, no-man-fathomed. Hold them cheap
May who ne'er hung there. Nor does long our small
Durance deal with that steep or deep. Here! creep,
Wretch, under a comfort serves in a whirlwind: all
Life death does end and each day dies with sleep.

realdanbreen

realdanbreen wrote: »

Getting back to the semi final. One thing that can be guaranteed is that Galway will come with a ferociousness that this Tipp team have not experienced before. I remember 93 after we hammered clare in the munster final we were at the same craic, songs and celebrations. Galway met us in the semi final and literraly beat us up. Hammerred us from start to finish. They have allways seen us a being a bit soft and unless we are prepared they could be right. This is where Michael Ryan needs to take the players one side and drill this into them.

29/7/2015-I got slated for daring to question our team here 3 weeks ago. Anyway, well done to Galway and well done to our own lads.

ReacherCreature

Deleted User wrote: »

We apparently have a video analyst? is he being used or is he bringing anything to our awareness?

It's David Young, I think. Former goalkeeper. He's been onboard for a bit.

The Shane Bourke thing was puzzling. I like him, he's a trier but coming on at half only to be subbed again did his career progression no favours. But that's not a scapegoat target, just one thing I found very odd.

I'm still very down over yesterday. Credit to Galway they were excellent but I thought we were in with a good chance of getting to the final. One thing that stood out for me was Galway's response after each goal. Seamie got a hat trick, enough to put away many other teams in the country but Galway marched down the field each time and scored point after point. None of the goals were hammer blows like they should have been. That was a big factor I think.

Disappointed that O' Shea didn't get to go out on a high. You could tell that the players really wanted to win it for him. I reckon they are very fond of O' Shea.

evolving tipperary

wing backs and wing forwards were well below par. Got taken to town and back...

A series of managers have done what they could with these players - the players have done what they could - I wouldn't point the fingers at anyone in management without including the players on the field. O'Shea went for the main trophy - he was building a team to beat KK - he tried something new from last year - the players are not there or in the right place at the moment. Implosion seems to be habit regardless of the manager - implosions under Sheedy too - wing forwards, wing backs, midfield....Big transition on the cards now - Michael Ryan will go down the big man everywhere route now especially in the forwards - no doubts about that... - In the parade you had players laughing - that could be arrogance or worry or nerves or fear - or simply not being tuned in...

Stapleton, Cahill, Noelie, and on yesterday's evidence, Gar Ryan, certainly missed his up and down work rate yesterday, whatever about his lack of scoring... were all big losses...

What's most disappointing about yesterday is the manner in which Tipp got pulled into an emotional shoot out - no method, coolness, or tactical awareness yesterday. KK never broke in the leinster final despite pressure and goals - kept picking off Galway with cool play - even across field to open them up and backwards...

Apart from Callinan and the ball into him we had no pattern to our play which allowed for scores particularly form the half forward line and midfield. If Callinan played for KK and KK were playing Galway yesterday - Callinan would have scored 6-15. Most devastating forward in the game at the moment


Galway dictated the pace... - we had nobody out the field to put a paw on the ball, keep cool and put pattern on our play... - who is our quaterback? Our Tommy Dunne? Our Ritchie Hogan? The answer is Noelie - but he wasn't 100% there yesterday - great to see him back though

Softness or Toughness - nothing to do with it. It's about game management on the field, the right choices, tactical awareness, and inner belief

Starokan

I would think a new management set up would be best, I don't really see how Michael Ryan can get any more out of this group than Eamon O'Shea. Michael Ryan would have been intrinsically involved in team selection etc. We probably have reached our level with the current management in any format.

Other than a virtuoso performance from Callanan we were very poor in the forwards and Shane McGrath for me had a very off day at midfield. I thought substitutions could have been made better and quicker as in fairness it was only the goals keeping is in touch.

Eamon O'Shea always came across as an out and out gentleman, the fans and players love him and to a certain extent he was very unlucky as last year we should have won the drawn all ireland. He deserves our thanks for the commitment he has shown but the county board owe it to the fans and the players now to seriously consider the direction of the team. I'd like to see it freshened up with new faces. Has the appointment of Ryan been ratified yet or is it still up for debate?

PlayByTheRules

Here is how I would rate O'Shea's tenure

Successes / Strangths:
1. Winning a Munster title
2. Restoring some pride in the players /team after the shock of 2012
3. Uncovering and blooding several new players of good quality - Bergin, O'Meara and Bubbles come to mind
4. Transitioning away from most of the old crop of players that had passed their time
5. Reinventing players in new positions - Callanan at full forward and Barry at full-back are the two that come to mind. These two positions no longer need any repair work and next management team can rest easy with knowing that.

Failures / Weaknesses:
1. Failure to win an All-Ireland (despite being very close)
2. Failure to win a National League (despite being very close)
3. Failure to spot weaknesses in the team during big games which cost the team a lot
4. Staying loyal to certain players that have never really delivered at inter-county level or have been on a downward spiral, Shane Bourke would come to mind

Rasputin11

I heard the 6 panel members who didn't make the 26 had to make their own way to Dublin yesterday, not a great way to treat people.

thinkstoomuch1

Starokan wrote: »

I would think a new management set up would be best, I don't really see how Michael Ryan can get any more out of this group than Eamon O'Shea. Michael Ryan would have been intrinsically involved in team selection etc. We probably have reached our level with the current management in any format.

Other than a virtuoso performance from Callanan we were very poor in the forwards and Shane McGrath for me had a very off day at midfield. I thought substitutions could have been made better and quicker as in fairness it was only the goals keeping is in touch.

Eamon O'Shea always came across as an out and out gentleman, the fans and players love him and to a certain extent he was very unlucky as last year we should have won the drawn all ireland. He deserves our thanks for the commitment he has shown but the county board owe it to the fans and the players now to seriously consider the direction of the team. I'd like to see it freshened up with new faces. Has the appointment of Ryan been ratified yet or is it still up for debate?

I agree with your point totally
Ryan has been ratified and will take over and I am not saying this just now many know i said this month ago and last week imo is bad for tippeary in a selector who has been part of the set up for eight years or so with just one all ireland it's not the way forward to management team and tippeary need a change and it's hard to see Ryan make much change as he's involved too long with little success bar one all ireland

I expect tipp to fall way of the pace next year and indeed munster next year imo could be extremely poor
Limerick need tactical innovation as management have huge doubts with no proven record

Cork jbm expected to go and God help us if tomas mulchay gets it as he's no record proven in management
Tippeary imo have problems
Waterford have made progress but concerns remain will mcgrath change the system
Clare if Kinnerk rejoin could be the best if not same as last year

In all munster has a pretty poor luck in it in any team could beat each other on any day but truth be told unless changes are made its hard to see any munster team winning the all ireland

As for o shea I rate him a very good coach and I felt took over tipp two years two late in huge defeats declan Ryan suffered hugely affected confidence this team
O shea got as much as he could out of them imo and more than others

Tippeary need to do what Galway did three years ago the team to the current team has only six starters approximately and tippeary have good young players coming through need to change things

Tippeary need change but that's the worry Ryan has worked with lot these players so long it remains to be seen is he ruthless enough to change this team

A total new management imo was needed and I see no sense giving Ryan the job a year before the championship ended
I hope it works for tippeary as hurling need team compete with kk but this could hinder tippeary evolution imo

Fair play to Callan didn't deserves to loose and brilliant see Noel mcgrath come back

Minors look well coached and should be great game with galway
I think tipperary's might just edge it

thinkstoomuch1

Charlie69 wrote: »

Eddie Brennan in the Sunday Times today spoke of Kilkenny's desire to have another crack at Cork in the final of 2005 having been beaten by them in the final the previous year, and as a result of having one eye on Cork instead of being fully focused on Galway , ended up losing the semi-final in an absolute classic by 5-18 to 4-18.

Do the Tipp fans think that maybe Tipp were guilty of falling into this trap or is that a little unfair on Galway?

Galway were excellent but I agree with brennan and I even changed my view before the game said in the thread Galway to win close game


I think tipperary's always knew huge huge performance needed beat kk all ireland final and would have been best all year and were slightly off pace yesterday as knew taken one unreal performance beat kk after years loosing


They were vulnerable yesterday and that's not taking from Galway but tippeary never got going at all like they expected to win and you must earn your wins

Brennan points are valid imo

Rasputin11

A friend of mine works with a recently retired Tipp hurler who says they should throw Munster next year and go the qualifier route.

evolving tipperary

The reason Michael Ryan was chosen is continuity.

The Lost Sheep

Rasputin11 wrote: »

I heard the 6 squad members who didn't make the 26 had to make their own way to Dublin yesterday, not a great way to treat people.

Why? Who else was on the team bus etc? Were they the guys 24-30 not in matchday squad etc

Rasputin11 wrote: »

A friend of mine works with a recently retired Tipp hurler who says they should throw Munster next year and go the qualifier route.

Why would that be?

evolving tipperary wrote: »

The reason Michael Ryan was chosen is continuity.

I thinks that's very obvious and we all know that. But is that good enough? Continuity of what exactly? We have been close but not good enough so why is this assistant going to suddenly get us over the edge? We've had how many years of same voices. Something else is needed.