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The Tipperary GAA (Club and intercounty) Discussion thread 2015

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    #2132
    robbiezero
    Registered Users Posts: 4,473 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    evolving tipperary wrote: »
    Great post by Hitchens on the KK thread:

    "according to the media experts, Galway were brilliant and Tipp were terrible, so how was there only 1 point in it at the end?

    ....and they also said it was probably the greatest hurling semi final ever (with one team playing great and the other team playing terrible)"

    Seamus Callinan.
    We weren't terrible, but we were certainly poor in a lot of areas. 4/5 points from our starting forwards bar Callinan, well beaten in midfield. Conceded the huge total of 26 points.


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    #2133
    robbiezero
    Registered Users Posts: 4,473 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Why?? Why do they lack it? I mean if you play sport at the top level then surely that is something you have to work to? Why are we still getting caught with those silly puck outs or loose marking. No one is dismissing Kilkenny but i think surely given the narrow nature of our defeats we surely could have went over things with a fine tooth comb and squeze that extra bit out of our challenge? It seems to be the same recurring themes over and over again.





    We are barely losing to Kilkenny each time so there is little to separate the talent. Physicality and intensity and attention to detail perhaps but there is nothing to separate the overall talent. If anything we probably shade it in the sticksmen department. Its the overall whole application. Even Cillian Buckley was saying recently how some of our players 'could make a ball talk'.

    I get you saying that Kilkenny are that little bit better then everyone, but were we that worse off Limerick on the two occasions? or Galway yesterday? Or Waterford in the league semi? Fact is we have a tendency to be outfought and despite the talent at our disposal thats very worrying indeed.

    We have problems dealing with a hugely physical team that cuts down space for our forwards, but and its a problem that is largely ignored, our defensive set up is wrong too. We concede far too many scores and way too much space.
    I was actually delighted after the Waterford game, it was the first time I had seen Tipp under O'Shea play a defensive game and grind out a result. But we largely reverted to type in the semi-final.
    Just watch how naieve our defending is in injury time on Sunday. Count the players in the Galway half of the field as against in our half. Look at how much space Moloney had to run into to get the winning point and that wasn't Galways only chance in injury time to win it.


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    #2134
    evolving tipperary
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,550 ✭✭✭evolving tipperary


    Whs is taking the puck outs? Not learning from quick sidelines? And the loose marking? Management, is it?

    Who is getting outfought? The management is it?

    Come on!!!

    How much difference is a manager going to make? You have a manager now who is leaving that players want to stay? Maybe the optimum was got? Maybe the slide is on now?

    You seem to be doing everything to point at management and calls fro freshness and new voices without pointing at the players role here...

    The biggest mistake on the line last Sunday came from Galway...yet, those players still ground it out...


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    #2135
    thinkstoomuch1
    Registered Users Posts: 6,276 ✭✭✭thinkstoomuch1


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    :rolleyes:
    Yeah continuity of being second. Our new Head coach has been part of our management team for how long and while we've contended for all Irelands we've always fallen short. What evidence is there he can do better than EOS? We need something new. A new voice. Bring freshness to the whole squad
    You don't pick people who deserve the role the most. You pick the best candidate. Is our new manager better than all potential alternatives? What was the list of all alternatives? Oh wait. We don't know as we named a successor before looking at every potential new manager.
    Cody has always been winning. Averages over 2 titles per year of his time of manager.
    2-3 years of rebuilding of a side who's new manager has been involved in coaching for several years in the last 4/5 years... great
    Totally agree with this

    Tippeary need change and imo will go in to decline the next few years under Ryan


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    #2136
    evolving tipperary
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,550 ✭✭✭evolving tipperary


    http://tipperary.gaa.ie/tipperary-press-release-eamon-oshea/


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    #2137
    evolving tipperary
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,550 ✭✭✭evolving tipperary


    Yes, all very true. Management cannot impart a concentration and physicality to a player...


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    #2138
    evolving tipperary
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,550 ✭✭✭evolving tipperary


    What do you base that on?


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    #2139
    Mantis Toboggan
    Registered Users Posts: 17,992 ✭✭✭✭Mantis Toboggan


    evolving tipperary wrote: »
    Yes, all very true. Management cannot impart a concentration and physicality to a player...

    But sure the manager picks the team to play. We all knew that Shane Bourke wasn't good enough but he was still picked by the manager.

    Free Palestine 🇵🇸



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    #2140
    evolving tipperary
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,550 ✭✭✭evolving tipperary


    He also picked up Seamus Callanan from the floor....after both Sheedy and Ryan had him on the bench or without confidence

    Stupid silly comment - Shane Bourke was brought off the bench to changes things and taken off again - it didn't work. Bourke has come off the bench to good effect before - But, you go to all the training sessions and know the form of each player and could Bourke wasn't up to it. Good man!

    Great men - the hurlers on the ditch - taking pot shots after it all goes wrong!!! The real supporters! Righting all the wrongs!!!


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    #2141
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    evolving tipperary wrote: »
    l BUt, you could say the exact opposite of what you're saying...That these players had the right management and support and never delivered....The players lacked that little bit of intensity, and hunger - that attention to detailI think what you're saying is too easy to say. I'd rather give credit to KK number one, same nucleus of players under three management regimes feel short except for one year, and thirdly, management made mistakesBut, you are not looking at the talent relevant to kk's talent... to me it's obvious in places... - particularly in terms of wing backs, wing forwards an dmidfield over a series of generationsIt's too simplistic what you're saying...
    Thats a load of rubbish and over use of cliche etc. Lacking hunger. How exactly do you define hunger to win? How is hunger measured?


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    #2142
    Mantis Toboggan
    Registered Users Posts: 17,992 ✭✭✭✭Mantis Toboggan


    Dennis Reynolds wrote: »
    Any idea how Noel is?

    I've no faith in Bourke tbh, he's decent, but doesn't inspire confidence. Lar probably the only player who can inject some spark.

    This was my view last week. No offence to Shane but he's never been good enough for the top level.

    Free Palestine 🇵🇸



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    #2143
    evolving tipperary
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,550 ✭✭✭evolving tipperary


    There's no helping you!!!


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    #2144
    robbiezero
    Registered Users Posts: 4,473 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    evolving tipperary wrote: »
    l BUt, you could say the exact opposite of what you're saying...

    That these players had the right management and support and never delivered....


    The players lacked that little bit of intensity, and hunger - that attention to detail

    I think what you're saying is too easy to say. I'd rather give credit to KK number one, same nucleus of players under three management regimes feel short except for one year, and thirdly, management made mistakes....

    But, you are not looking at the talent relevant to kk's talent... to me it's obvious in places... - particularly in terms of wing backs, wing forwards an dmidfield over a series of generations...

    It's too simplistic what you're saying...

    While KK do get some fantastic natural talent though the ranks like Reid, Power Hogan etc, a lot of these players are moulded by the Cody regime. I was not that impressed by Killian Buckley when he first came on the panel or played initially for the KK u21's. I actually couldn't see him making the team at all. He is now arguably the foremost wing back in the country. I would say similar for the likes of Aylward and Conor Fogarty and probably a few more.


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    #2145
    citykat
    Registered Users Posts: 2,704 ✭✭✭citykat


    robbiezero wrote: »
    While KK do get some fantastic natural talent though the ranks like Reid, Power Hogan etc, a lot of these players are moulded by the Cody regime. I was not that impressed by Killian Buckley when he first came on the panel or played initially for the KK u21's. I actually couldn't see him making the team at all. He is now arguably the foremost wing back in the country. I would say similar for the likes of Aylward and Conor Fogarty and probably a few more.

    You're right about Buckley. He started the 12 AI and then had a poor season all through 13. Cody persisted with him throughout continually picking him. He started coming good in 14.


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    #2146
    evolving tipperary
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,550 ✭✭✭evolving tipperary


    Yes, indeed. But there are players there that are pliable - Buckley had an eye for a score, stamina, passing, and aerial ability before he hit the squad.

    How many Brian Codys have their been in hurling? Who else has his record of success? WHo are you measuring O'Shea against? and Michael Ryan? (These questions are more for the lads critical of O'Shea as more responsible of than the players and judging Ryan before a ball has been pucked? This job is now tougher than it has been in a long long time because of a number of factors...)


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    #2147
    evolving tipperary
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,550 ✭✭✭evolving tipperary


    Because Cody understands, like O'Shea, a lot of players have to earn their apprenticeship and learn the new pace and physicality. Not everybody is like a duck to water - only a few players


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    #2148
    evolving tipperary
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,550 ✭✭✭evolving tipperary


    What number was Denis Maher on Sunday? On the programme?


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    #2149
    robbiezero
    Registered Users Posts: 4,473 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    evolving tipperary wrote: »
    What number was Denis Maher on Sunday? On the programme?

    Was not named on the subs.


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    #2150
    evolving tipperary
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,550 ✭✭✭evolving tipperary


    Yes, because he has been struggling for fitness all year. Yet, some people beat O'Shea over the head for not picking him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    And, he got plenty of chances


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    #2151
    robbiezero
    Registered Users Posts: 4,473 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    evolving tipperary wrote: »
    Yes, indeed. But there are players there that are pliable - Buckley had an eye for a score, stamina, passing, and aerial ability before he hit the squad.

    How many Brian Codys have their been in hurling? Who else has his record of success? WHo are you measuring O'Shea against? and Michael Ryan? (These questions are more for the lads critical of O'Shea as more responsible of than the players and judging Ryan before a ball has been pucked? This job is now tougher than it has been in a long long time because of a number of factors...)

    I wouldn't be that critical of O'Shea. Tipperary hurling is in a good place after his reign and I agree with the point I think you are making that we just don't have the players to push on that bit more to the next level and beat KK. We are far better placed IMO than Clare, Cork, Limerick, Dublin etc.
    Mike Ryan has a big job of work to do to get us to that level, but should be given the chance and the time to do it.
    A look down the subs bench on Sunday told its own story of how threadbare we are for players.
    Mike Cahill named on the bench, but obviously not fit enough to come on or he surely would have been used.
    Dan McCormack, Barry Heffernan, Conor Kenny totally unproven as yet in the Tipp jersey and no chance really of coming on in the game.


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    #2152
    evolving tipperary
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,550 ✭✭✭evolving tipperary


    Finally, a man with sense!

    Right! We might get somewhere!

    If, you were to choose eight players (18-24 say) to build up over the next three years who would they be? (bear in mind the wings backs, forwards, and midfield) I'm not dismissing ronan maher here but he needs time too


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    #2153
    evolving tipperary
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,550 ✭✭✭evolving tipperary


    Sport
    GAA
    Tipperary thank Eamon O'Shea for his service to county
    Updated: Tuesday, 18 Aug 2015 12:07 | 6 Comments
    6 Comments


    Eamon O'Shea has been praised by the Tipperary board
    The Tipperary County Board have thanked Eamon O'Shea for his services to the county after concluding his spell as manager last Sunday.
    O'Shea had signalled his intention to leave his post at the end of the current season, and defeat to Galway in the All-Ireland hurling semi-final ended his tenure in charge.
    The county board thanked O'Shea for putting in place structures in Tipp hurling, as well as a panel that can go on to challenge for silverware in the future.
    County board chairman, Michael Bourke said: “Eamon O’Shea’s contribution to Tipperary is immense. I have witnessed at first hand that the only thing on his mind was getting Tipperary hurling to the pinnacle of All-Ireland success and keeping it there, which was his total ambition.
    "Eamon is a man of huge belief in his ideals and in those around him and whose determination and approach was unquestionable in trying to get there.
    "I wish to thank Eamon and his family most sincerely for his contribution to Tipperary. He gave his all unfailingly and I really appreciate it.”
    The official county board statement read: "Already planned and known in advance all was missing was the date, a truly inspirational and passionate Tipperary manager Eamon O’Shea, led his side into combat one last time in Croke Park on Sunday last.
    "It is with a huge amount of gratitude and thanks Tipperary County Board mark and acknowledges the contribution of Eamon O’Shea, a Tipperary man through and through who never wanted more than to see Tipperary be successful. He leaves behind a solid structure, a fabulous group of players who held Eamon in such high esteem. His is the torch they carried; his is the badge they wore with pride. Eamon’s belief in his players was and is unequivocal and also resilient in his belief that they will succeed when he is gone.
    "Giving up a tremendous amount of his time to Tipperary, Tipperary County Board is indebted to the contribution Eamon O’Shea has given in his term as manager. The Board also thanks Eamon’s family who played their part in Eamon’s voyage and shared in his highs and some lows too.
    "For your energy, passion, dedication, honesty and integrity on behalf of all Tipperary players, supporters and officials alike, we extend every best wish and more to Eamon O’Shea and his family now and for the future.
    "You are more than a 'footnote', you are the foundation, the platform, the genesis of things to come. The future is bright, the future is Blue and Gold because of your contribution and for that the players salute you; we salute you, farewell and thanks."
    Ryan is succeeded in the role by his assistant Michael Ryan.
    eamon o'shea
    tipperary county board
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    +5 Corkmanabroad's avatar
    Corkmanabroad · 1 hour ago
    Well that was amongst the most genuine, heartfelt thank you's to a departing manager I have seen in recent memory.
    Well done Tipp County Board and best of luck Eamon O'Shea
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    +5 COR's avatar
    COR · 2 hours ago
    Did a great job for Tipp, wish him all the best in the future
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    +5 Kilkenny supporter's avatar
    Kilkenny supporter · 3 hours ago
    Eamon O’Shea you always came across as a honest man who loved the game - good luck in your future endeavors
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    +4 Rebels Abu's avatar
    Rebels Abu · 1 hour ago
    Cork County Board take note. You could learn a lot from the Tipp Board
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    +1 Joe Moran's avatar
    Joe Moran · 58 minutes ago
    Well deserved, great man manager, set standards that Tipperary must continue and lives standards that few inter county team managers attain.
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    0 guest's avatar
    guest · 37 minutes ago
    Great jobEamonn. Wish your team had only done the same. Good luck to You.
    Report


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    #2154
    Rasputin11
    Registered Users Posts: 1,351 ✭✭✭Rasputin11


    evolving tipperary wrote: »
    Finally, a man with sense!

    Right! We might get somewhere!

    If, you were to choose eight players (18-24 say) to build up over the next three years who would they be? (bear in mind the wings backs, forwards, and midfield) I'm not dismissing ronan maher here but he needs time too

    Had a think about this and there's not too many lads jumping out, particularly in the forwards. I think Brian Stapleton is a player with potential who could be improved with good coaching. John Meagher is a classy player but injuries/illness have halted his progress so far. Stephen Cahill always impresses with Thurles and is a brave man to run at a defence but lack of height might go against him. I can't honestly name 1 up and coming forward that you could look at and say he's a potential Tipp forward. Shane Hennessy of Nenagh was the best underage forward I'd seen in Tipp for years before his terrible run of knee injuries. He could win his own ball, had plenty of pace and a fine hurler too.


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    #2155
    evolving tipperary
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,550 ✭✭✭evolving tipperary


    Tynan? Seamus Kennedy? O'Riordan? Steven O'Brien? Peters? Josh Keane? Brian Stapleton? Tommy Nolan?

    All of these players would be three year projects - must be developed - but have a physicality, aerial ability and attitude which is required...

    We were always going to get days like that with Niall O'Meara, Ronan Maher, and Forde and their learning is not over yet...


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    #2156
    Rasputin11
    Registered Users Posts: 1,351 ✭✭✭Rasputin11


    evolving tipperary wrote: »
    Tynan? Seamus Kennedy? O'Riordan? Steven O'Brien? Peters? Josh Keane? Brian Stapleton? Tommy Nolan?

    All of these players would be three year projects - must be developed - but have a physicality, aerial ability and attitude which is required...

    We were always going to get days like that with Niall O'Meara, Ronan Maher, and Forde and their learning is not over yet...

    Tynan could be lost to the oval ball sadly, O Riordan seems to favour the football by all accounts. Would O Brien be the same I wonder? The others are all certainly worth having a look at anyway because ball winners are as rare as rocking horse ****e in Tipp at the moment. I go the a good few underage games and catching the ball isn't a feature at all. Is it not being coached to the kids at a young age?

    On a side note the Dubai Rose, originally from Borris is fancied to win at 7/1 with Boyles!!


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    #2157
    evolving tipperary
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,550 ✭✭✭evolving tipperary


    O'Mahony, Noelie, and Lar all made a significant contribution when they came on


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    #2158
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    evolving tipperary wrote: »
    There's no helping you!!!
    :rolleyes:
    evolving tipperary wrote: »
    Tynan? Seamus Kennedy? O'Riordan? Steven O'Brien? Peters? Josh Keane? Brian Stapleton? Tommy Nolan?

    All of these players would be three year projects - must be developed - but have a physicality, aerial ability and attitude which is required...

    We were always going to get days like that with Niall O'Meara, Ronan Maher, and Forde and their learning is not over yet...
    Tynan is still going to be in Cistercian Roscrea for the coming year AFAIK and is in provincial rugby squad for next month and then be playing the leinster schools league and schools cup
    O Riordan and O Brien are footballers and playing senior. Why not leave them alone and they may also play hurling but leave them off considering gaelic demands etc


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    #2159
    evolving tipperary
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,550 ✭✭✭evolving tipperary


    As a hurling man, It's not up to me to think like that. If i was Michael Ryan i'd be sitting down with these lads and doing everything I could to persuade them to give the tipp hurling panel three years of commitment and then see how they're development is shaping up. Ultimately, its up to the player whether its rugby or football. But, if I was Michael Ryan i'd be turning up trees to try and develop these guys because they've all got the heart, physicality, and never say die attitude...


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    #2160
    solerina
    Registered Users Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭solerina


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    :rolleyes:

    Tynan is still going to be in Cistercian Roscrea for the coming year AFAIK and is in provincial rugby squad for next month and then be playing the leinster schools league and schools cup
    O Riordan and O Brien are footballers and playing senior. Why not leave them alone and they may also play hurling but leave them off considering gaelic demands etc
    Don't usually post but I totally agree, leave the footballers alone....picking hurling over football hasn't exactly worked out for Bill Maher has it !!
    Allow them to be proper dual players or stop trying to ruin the football panel !!!


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    #2161
    evolving tipperary
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,550 ✭✭✭evolving tipperary


    Once, again that's coming from a place with an emotional attachment to football. Michael Ryan can't afford, even as a GAA man, to think like that. If there is any possibility to possess a talented and dynamic athlete on his panel Ryan has to pursue it or he won't be doing his job...

    Bill Maher is learning his trade - it might work out it might not...he has made a choice - let him develop and don't be passing judgement on him already


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