The Tipperary GAA (Club and intercounty) Discussion thread 2015

Spirit of 67

Spirit of 67 wrote: »

2010 Cork beat Down by a point to win the All Ireland , the same Down team we beat the year before to win the NFL Division 3 !

And drew with in Park Esler that same year. Kildare really left that All ireland behind them i feel. They'd have beaten Cork in that final.

The Lost Sheep

Deleted User wrote: »

I cant really see the overall benefits it has over our current situation to be honest.

For me we just cant expect to automatically rise to the top tier the way things are. Kerry showed exactly what we are up against going forward last Sunday. In order to crash the Dublin and Kerry party we are going to have to match them for coaching and preparation. Dublin have an enviable structure on board at the moment and i would be hoping we can entice on of the coaches from either there or Kerry and i dont mean another John Evans but a modern shrewd coach.

The main target should be Division 1 football over the next three years. The experience of playing against the very best during the winter would stand to us in the future. Without top level football we are fighting blind.

Of course we cant just expect to automatically rise to top tier. that would just be arrogant and ignorant of what needs to be done
What do you see us offering coaches from Dublin/Kerry that would get them to come and join coaching set up in Tipp? What exactly is a "modern shrewd coach"?
I don't think we are ready for division 1 football within the next 3 years. We have spent what 1(?) season in division 2 in past decade and got relegated straight away. Surviving comfortably in division 2 over next couple of years and then regroup and build on so that we can push for division 1 should be the aim within the next 5 years

Spirit of 67

Provisional NFL Division 3 Fixtures for 2016 :

Limerick (a)
Clare (h)
Westmeath (a)
Offaly (h)
Longford (a)
Kildare (h)
Sligo (a)

danganabu

Spirit of 67 wrote: »

Indeed he has and it is still unrealistic , Hannigan btw would have been Chair of The Friends of Tipp Football at the time but it was O`Brien who originally said it . Once again we are catching up to the likes of Armagh and Kildare but are a way of the Top Teams .

I would like to see a Link as to where you say Tipp were 5th Favorites for the AI ! Cork were Odds on if I remember correctly for the Munster Final . Even if we were 5th Favorites it proves the point that Bookies don`t always get it right .

Never said it was Hannigan who originally said it, merely that he had said it, and in fact continues to repeat it, so yes my original point stands its downright bloody stupid, and I have told him that to his face! - you seem to like the auld winky faces;)

Cant link it from the phone, all you have to do is go on to oddschecker and check the historic markets.

danganabu

Spirit of 67 wrote: »

2010 Cork beat Down by a point to win the All Ireland , the same Down team we beat the year before to win the NFL Division 3 !

Adding further proof that anyone referencing league results as their sole measurement of a teams ranking is clutching at straws.

Spirit of 67

danganabu wrote: »

Never said it was Hannigan who originally said it, merely that he had said it, and in fact continues to repeat it, so yes my original point stands its downright bloody stupid, and I have told him that to his face! - you seem to like the auld winky faces;)

Cant link it from the phone, all you have to do is go on to oddschecker and check the historic markets.

You said that the Chairman of the Tipperary Football Board originally said it which wasn`t the case but anyway Hannigan has said it and I am in agreement with you , I don`t believe it is realistic as TG has said Joe is sticking by the target to save face . A short while ago I was being accused of being a Troll on here yet despite the fact that I am in agreement with you in relation to 2020 and Tipp Senior All Ireland Football you persist in trying to have a go at me and can`t let the point go !

I like Smiley Faces in general not just "the auld winky faces" :pac: .

Spirit of 67

danganabu wrote: »

Adding further proof that anyone referencing league results as their sole measurement of a teams ranking is clutching at straws.

Not at all , the only game in the last 3 years that Tipp didn`t bother in was v Wexford in the final League game this year which was a dead rubber . If you saw the anger and disappointment in Brewster after the Fermanagh defeat , you would realise the effort and commitment given by the lads , they want to push on to a higher level !

kazamo

Deleted User wrote: »

And drew with in Park Esler that same year. Kildare really left that All ireland behind them i feel. They'd have beaten Cork in that final.

Kildare didn't leave the all Ireland behind that year.
They were beaten by a goal that should never have stood.

Following year Kildare scored a similar goal against Donegal but it was disallowed.....strange how optional the enforcement of rules are sometimes.

regardless, Kildare wouldn't have won the All Ireland as they were without Dermot Earley and enough scoring forwards to get them the title.
Cest la vie

danganabu

Spirit of 67 wrote: »

Not at all , the only game in the last 3 years that Tipp didn`t bother in was v Wexford in the final League game this year which was a dead rubber . If you saw the anger and disappointment in Brewster after the Fermanagh defeat , you would realise the effort and commitment given by the lads , they want to push on to a higher level !

No one is questioning the effort, application and desire in these games, but the fact remains they are too early in the year to have any real significance of a teams standing, teams are at differnt stages of training etc.

Offaly drew with Limerick in the hurling league last year for christ sake.

danganabu

danganabu wrote: »

For example the Chairman of the Football County Board claiming that Tipp would win a Senior Football AI by 2020, has to be one of the stupidest things I have ever heard.

Spirit of 67 wrote: »

You said that the Chairman of the Tipperary Football Board originally said it which wasn`t the case.

Please stop making stuff up.

Spirit of 67

danganabu wrote: »

No one is questioning the effort, application and desire in these games, but the fact remains they are too early in the year to have any real significance of a teams standing, teams are at differnt stages of training etc.

Offaly drew with Limerick in the hurling league last year for christ sake.

I don`t care and have no interest hence I won`t comment .

Spirit of 67

danganabu wrote: »

League games and friendly's, jaysus if the hurlers were to use such criteria they would be ridiculed and laughed out of the place, I though the football boys wanted to be treated equally? Or is it only when it suits.

Just checked the bookies odds for Sam next year to make sure I wasn't being overly harsh - Armagh 50/1, Meath 50/1. Kildare 66/1 and Tipperary 250/1 - pretty good barometer there I would have thought.

Now I have no doubt that 3-5 years ago we were probaly in the region of 1000/1 but the improvement has been over stated, understandably because of our incredible underage succes and also because of the lack of a credible challenger to Kerry and Cork in Munster, but I think a small bit of realism needs to be applied. For example the Chairman of the Football County Board claiming that Tipp would win a Senior Football AI by 2020, has to be one of the stupidest things I have ever heard.

Making what up ?

evolving tipperary

How's Jack Loughnane hurling?

danganabu

evolving tipperary wrote: »

How's Jack Loughnane hurling?

Hurling very well since he went back wingback, was midfield early in the year before we reshuffled the team and struggled a bit but has been very good back in his best position, had a great game v Upperchurch

Clareman

No more bickering, if you want to have an arguement with another poster take it to PM, attack the post not the poster, I've deleted a number of posts now and any more fighting will result in bans.

evolving tipperary

What do you think of his long term Senior inter-county ambitions?

danganabu

evolving tipperary wrote: »

What do you think of his long term Senior inter-county ambitions?

Bit on the small side I think, very good club hurler but might be a bit off inter county

The Lost Sheep

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Of course we cant just expect to automatically rise to top tier. that would just be arrogant and ignorant of what needs to be done
What do you see us offering coaches from Dublin/Kerry that would get them to come and join coaching set up in Tipp? What exactly is a "modern shrewd coach"?
I don't think we are ready for division 1 football within the next 3 years. We have spent what 1(?) season in division 2 in past decade and got relegated straight away. Surviving comfortably in division 2 over next couple of years and then regroup and build on so that we can push for division 1 should be the aim within the next 5 years

I honestly dont know what we can offer to be honest but id consider us a project with great potential. A modern shrewd coach is someone who is accustomed to what it takes at the very very top of the game.

At the very least the county board needs to aim high in order to land the next manager.

The Lost Sheep

Deleted User wrote: »

I honestly dont know what we can offer to be honest but id consider us a project with great potential. A modern shrewd coach is someone who is accustomed to what it takes at the very very top of the game.

At the very least the county board needs to aim high in order to land the next manager.

Without being a dick and taking into account mod warning. Without clichés what is a "modern shrewd coach"? What does one do to be labelled as a modern shrewd coach?
Like what can we offer? Are we actually good enough to be a potential division 1 side in half a decade or will it take more time than that? Do we look at someone who will come in for a short time frame and get us up a level or two and then leave or do we look for someone who will stay long-term and we maybe go backwards before some giant leaps forward?

digzy

Deleted User wrote: »

I honestly dont know what we can offer

Money? Honestly, I'm just curious. I presume if liam kearns was getting paid to train aherlow-allegedly , There's no outsider coming on board out of altruistic reasons.

The Lost Sheep

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Without being a dick and taking into account mod warning. Without clichés what is a "modern shrewd coach"? What does one do to be labelled as a modern shrewd coach?
Like what can we offer? Are we actually good enough to be a potential division 1 side in half a decade or will it take more time than that? Do we look at someone who will come in for a short time frame and get us up a level or two and then leave or do we look for someone who will stay long-term and we maybe go backwards before some giant leaps forward?

We need a guy who can develop a gameplan to be able to compete at the very top. Someone who can develop the best out of our own players while at the same time coming up with a way of turning over more possession

No Tipperary manager at the moment would beat the likes of Jim Gavin or Eamon Fitzmaurice in a tactical battle. We need a Jim McGuinness type for example and before you say it i know were not going to get Jim and these types dont appear on every street corner, but we need a man with a plan who can come up with a logical blueprint to take on the big boys. We're going out and hoping for the best as it stands.

evolving tipperary

Why would we go backwards?

What are giant leaps forward?

evolving tipperary

Jason Ryan has spent time with more traditional football county set ups? Would he be an improvement? Not a mercurial genius...

Another figure who left after Sheedy's reign and has been with the Kerry footballers awhile is JOhn O'Neill - might get him back in some capacity with the footballers - his conditioning is second to none...

evolving tipperary

evolving tipperary wrote: »

Jason Ryan has spent time with more traditional football county set ups? Would he be an improvement? Not a mercurial genius...

Another figure who left after Sheedy's reign and has been with the Kerry footballers awhile is JOhn O'Neill - might get him back in some capacity with the footballers - his conditioning is second to none...

Ryan done a great job with Wexford. Amazed things didnt go as good with Kildare. That said McGeeney had Johnny Doyle and Dermot Earley with a bit to offer when he took over for quite a few years whereas when they left it fell apart coupled with the Seanie Johnston saga. He could be worth a shot as he did come close to upsetting Dublin when he was at the helm in Wexford.

Cian O'Neill is a real gem. Every team he goes seem to find an extra edge. Would be great to get him back with either the footballers or hurlers in some capacity.

As you mention Cian O'Neill, i read the first few pages of Anthony Dalys book. Interestingly, he had Dublin training camp with the Irish Rangers in Behr Island the week before they played Tipp....and he is scratching his head as to why Dublin were so flat against Tipp on the day...:rolleyes:

Im all on for getting an edge but if this rangers carry on is prevalent in intercounty preparation then managers are barking completely up the wrong tree. Such a load of counter productive bullshít. No coincidence Tommy Dunne and Ross Dunphy (an army man himself) were involved with Dublin

OAOB

Wouldn't rate Jason Ryan that highly, one good season with Wexford in his first year and never got them back near that stage. Got them promoted to division 2 once and relegated back the next year.
Kildare were relegated both years he was in charge and he didn't develop the numerous good young players they have been producing.
In my opinion he is living off the success he had in 2008 but I don't see him as a progressive manager who can bring us forward

The Lost Sheep

Deleted User wrote: »

We need a guy who can develop a gameplan to be able to compete at the very top. Someone who can develop the best out of our own players while at the same time coming up with a way of turning over more possession

No Tipperary manager at the moment would beat the likes of Jim Gavin or Eamon Fitzmaurice in a tactical battle. We need a Jim McGuinness type for example and before you say it i know were not going to get Jim and these types dont appear on every street corner, but we need a man with a plan who can come up with a logical blueprint to take on the big boys. We're going out and hoping for the best as it stands.

A game plan to compete at the top... who do you have in mind who would actually come to tipp and be willing stay long term as for us to compete at the very top its quite a long term issue. How would you propose getting to best out of our players? Would you be recommending any changes to the club scene to get the best out of our players?

evolving tipperary wrote: »

Why would we go backwards?

What are giant leaps forward?

We have a huge group of potentially very good players but they are young and possibly what would be best for the county in the long term is that they are played and older guys, who are better in the short term/here and now, pushed out. By doing this we may struggle as the younger guys develop but shortly down the line we would do better
Its fairly clear what giant leap forwards would be. Beating a Kerry/Cork. Reaching a first Munster final in over a decade. Getting to division 2 and staying there.

dcrosskid

It is fairly obvious what the Tipp footballer's goals will be for the year ahead. Achieve promotion & possibly win Division 2 and if we can get a good draw in Munster by avoiding Cork & Kerry a Munster final is definitely an achievable goal.

A good performance against Kerry or if we could really trouble Cork should also be a goal.

Spirit of 67

OAOB wrote: »

Wouldn't rate Jason Ryan that highly, one good season with Wexford in his first year and never got them back near that stage. Got them promoted to division 2 once and relegated back the next year.
Kildare were relegated both years he was in charge and he didn't develop the numerous good young players they have been producing.
In my opinion he is living off the success he had in 2008 but I don't see him as a progressive manager who can bring us forward

Would have to agree , his record with Kildare was poor .

Mantis Toboggan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I cant really see the overall benefits it has over our current situation to be honest.

For me we just cant expect to automatically rise to the top tier the way things are. Kerry showed exactly what we are up against going forward last Sunday. In order to crash the Dublin and Kerry party we are going to have to match them for coaching and preparation. Dublin have an enviable structure on board at the moment and i would be hoping we can entice on of the coaches from either there or Kerry and i dont mean another John Evans but a modern shrewd coach.

The main target should be Division 1 football over the next three years. The experience of playing against the very best during the winter would stand to us in the future. Without top level football we are fighting blind.

Going into leinster would give us more competitive games, we could compete with everyone in that province bar Dublin. Ultimately in Munster we get one game then the inevitable defeat to kerry/Cork. Would make sense to move. Weren't our minors playing in leinster at one stage?