The Tipperary GAA (Club and intercounty) Discussion thread 2015

The Lost Sheep

digzy wrote: »

You'd know it's silly season when fellas ard rowing over the Waterford crystal cup:rolleyes:

God knows how the season develops but I guarantee our participation in this tournament won't have any effect on where we end up next summer.

I'm still gutted after last season. That Galway game bar seamie callanan was woeful. We're a seriously inconsistent side- one of the issues I hope mick ryan can get to grips with. I've lost faith in that teams ability to front up when it's back to the wall time. There's a number of lads that need serious guidance/instruction. Paudie mahers loose play being tolerated year after year is case in point.

Regarding Declan Ryan's time, we did ok but he had to go after the nature of the hammering the cats dished out. I don't know anyone to give me the 'inside track' from the players but I think he gets a hard time of it. Being honest, did eos really do much better than him? I dunno....

I think the discussions show that there's a lot not right and changes are needed. I think you can look to January and events there having a role on how year as a whole goes.

Marlee Shrilling Vegetable wrote: »

DR won 2 munsters, EOS one.
Tipp have the players, what they are lacking is direction.
Michael Ryan needs to make tipp the fittest, strongest team in the country and he needs to bring some dogs into the team.

How do we become "fittest, strongest team"? What changes do you propose for that to happen and who are these "dogs" who should be added to the team/squad?

evolving tipperary

evolving tipperary wrote: »

James Woodlock has retired at 29

Still had a bit to offer us I feel but tbf to James he has served us well and owes us nothing. Best of luck and thank you Woody!

glued

Shane McGrath is set to announce his retirement soon enough too.

Midfield is going to be a massive problem if Ryan doesn't find the right pairing as soon as possible. I think we will see a very young side in the league this year.

1eg0a3xv7b82of

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

I think the discussions show that there's a lot not right and changes are needed. I think you can look to January and events there having a role on how year as a whole goes.

How do we become "fittest, strongest team"? What changes do you propose for that to happen and who are these "dogs" who should be added to the team/squad?

Its a big county, loads of hurlers.
breen, stephan o brien, seamus kennedy, denis maher, john meagher lets get these guys in the tipp team, not the subs, in the team.
Also tell Colin ORiordan when he comes back from OZ, its party time.

Michael Ryan needs to bring change, hopefully he is encouraging more players like Woodlock to concentrate more on their club.

The Lost Sheep

Marlee Shrilling Vegetable wrote: »

Its a big county, loads of hurlers.
breen, stephan o brien, seamus kennedy, denis maher, john meagher lets get these guys in the tipp team, not the subs, in the team.
Also tell Colin ORiordan when he comes back from OZ, its party time.

Michael Ryan needs to bring change, hopefully he is encouraging more players like Woodlock to concentrate more on their club.

Big county may mean lots of hurlers but doesn't mean there is a lot of good hurlers. Club system doesn't aid production of enough high quality players. O Brien plays gaelic etc. O Riordan if he comes back will be back playing gaelic. Have you any actual suggestions other than that?

shmeee

glued wrote: »

Shane McGrath is set to announce his retirement soon enough too.

Midfield is going to be a massive problem if Ryan doesn't find the right pairing as soon as possible. I think we will see a very young side in the league this year.

Stephen Cahill from Thurles will surely get a run, MOTM 2 years in a row in the county final is worth a shot.

Tipp aren't gonna compete in the WC either this year.

1eg0a3xv7b82of

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Big county may mean lots of hurlers but doesn't mean there is a lot of good hurlers. Club system doesn't aid production of enough high quality players. O Brien plays gaelic etc. O Riordan if he comes back will be back playing gaelic. Have you any actual suggestions other than that?

get real, exactly how many names do you want, you can add stephan cahill,
you should have some faith in our young hurlers.
woodlock and mcgrath will be no loss, 2 very average hurlers.

The Lost Sheep

Marlee Shrilling Vegetable wrote: »

get real, exactly how many names do you want, you can add stephan cahill,
you should have some faith in our young hurlers.
woodlock and mcgrath will be no loss, 2 very average hurlers.

Me get real :pac:....:rolleyes:
Too many have illusions that we should have to be up at the very top and in general we are nowhere near as good what people think we are.
Faith in our young hurlers. I have some but if they haven't been good enough to get ahead of those who have been starting what use are they and why should they be picked....

1eg0a3xv7b82of

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Me get real :pac:....:rolleyes:
Too many have illusions that we should have to be up at the very top and in general we are nowhere near as good what people think we are.
Faith in our young hurlers. I have some but if they haven't been good enough to get ahead of those who have been starting what use are they and why should they be picked....

tipp have the players, they just dont have the manager.
Sheedy was great at filleting the deadwood, he made the changes needed to win in 2009.
He spotted the weak links and made dramatic changes.
Micheal Ryan hopefully understands what you obviously dont, change is good and even winning managers will enforce change.
i am quiet happy to say here that COM, COB, Shane McGrath, Woodlock, shane Bourke, Lar will be no losses if replaced in 2016.
the fact that EOS had them in the squad is proof that EOS was a weak manager.
And it will be a great sign if michael ryan encourages all of them to retire.

buggy beag

The Lost Sheep wrote:

So meaningless games against understrength county sides in its place? College sides will be aiming to peak for Fitzgibbon in the Spring so will be better opposition than county sides aiming to peak for much later in the year

Not from my experience over the last few years lad

Spirit of 67

Handy win for Commercials in the Munster Senior Club Semi Final . Seamus Kennedy played very well again today , can see him being a key figure for the County Senior Team . Another Black card for Mikey Quinlivan though . Nemo Rangers in the Final , should be a great game .

evolving tipperary

Marlee Shrilling Vegetable wrote: »

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Me get real :pac:....:rolleyes:
Too many have illusions that we should have to be up at the very top and in general we are nowhere near as good what people think we are.
Faith in our young hurlers. I have some but if they haven't been good enough to get ahead of those who have been starting what use are they and why should they be picked....

tipp have the players, they just dont have the manager.
Sheedy was great at filleting the deadwood, he made the changes needed to win in 2009.
He spotted the weak links and made dramatic changes.
Micheal Ryan hopefully understands what you obviously dont, change is good and even winning managers will enforce change.
i am quiet happy to say here that COM, COB, Shane McGrath, Woodlock, shane Bourke, Lar will be no losses if replaced in 2016.
the fact that EOS had them in the squad is proof that EOS was a weak manager.
And it will be a great sign if michael ryan encourages all of them to retire.

What makes those players average? What makes O'Shea a weak manager? That one point you make about having six players that you think are average or 'no losses' makes O'Shea weak?

What six hurlers should replace those players?

Name me 8 midfielders playing hurling at the moment that are better than James Woodlock and Shane McGrath and have had better careers? And, if there are eight - if you were say... the 9th or the 10th best midfielder in the country, would that make you an hurler average? Or, indeed, a VERY average hurler?

1eg0a3xv7b82of

evolving tipperary wrote: »

What makes those players average? What makes O'Shea a weak manager? That one point you make about having six players that you think are average or 'no losses' makes O'Shea weak?

What six hurlers should replace those players?

Name me 8 midfielders playing hurling at the moment that are better than James Woodlock and Shane McGrath and have had better careers? And, if there are eight - if you were say... the 9th or the 10th best midfielder in the country, would that make you an hurler average? Or, indeed, a VERY average hurler?

M Fenneally, ritchie hogan, fogarty, david burke, galvin, conor ryan, kevin moran, barron,
the way hurling is played now I could name more players who are better midfielders than woodlock/shane mcgrath.
that in a game, being kind, that has 10 teams makes you an average county player.

shane mcgrath was a great midfielder but unfortunately is not now, do you think we should keep picking him for Nostalgic reasons.
woodlock has always been average.

Xenophile

Spirit of 67 wrote: »

Handy win for Commercials in the Munster Senior Club Semi Final . Seamus Kennedy played very well again today , can see him being a key figure for the County Senior Team . Another Black card for Mikey Quinlivan though . Nemo Rangers in the Final , should be a great game .

Well done Commercials, Michael Quinlivan will have to learn to stop dragging out of opposing players and swinging them around, he is too talented for that carry on.

However four of the Commercial players are a shoe in for the Tipp Senior team
Michael Quinlivan
Jack Kennedy
Seamus Kennedy and
Ian Fahey

As regards Management I believe that if Charlie McGeever would accept the job he should get it.

The Lost Sheep

Marlee Shrilling Vegetable wrote: »

tipp have the players, they just dont have the manager.
Sheedy was great at filleting the deadwood, he made the changes needed to win in 2009.
He spotted the weak links and made dramatic changes.
Micheal Ryan hopefully understands what you obviously dont, change is good and even winning managers will enforce change.
i am quiet happy to say here that COM, COB, Shane McGrath, Woodlock, shane Bourke, Lar will be no losses if replaced in 2016.
the fact that EOS had them in the squad is proof that EOS was a weak manager.
And it will be a great sign if michael ryan encourages all of them to retire.

To put all the blame on the coaching staff is nonsense. I know change is good but who will replace all those players and their experience to make the team better and the results better?
The fact EOS had them in his squad means they were the better players in the county.

buggy beag wrote: »

Not from my experience over the last few years

So what is better? What do we do in its place that is better.
Completely meaningless Friendlies against who exactly? Playing the third level institutions is good prep as well as playing other counties as the third level institutions have to peak very early in the year so will be much more up to speed with things which makes them tricky opposition and good tests to have at the start of the year and ahead of the league

evolving tipperary

Marlee Shrilling Vegetable wrote: »

evolving tipperary wrote: »

What makes those players average? What makes O'Shea a weak manager? That one point you make about having six players that you think are average or 'no losses' makes O'Shea weak?

What six hurlers should replace those players?

Name me 8 midfielders playing hurling at the moment that are better than James Woodlock and Shane McGrath and have had better careers? And, if there are eight - if you were say... the 9th or the 10th best midfielder in the country, would that make you an hurler average? Or, indeed, a VERY average hurler?

M Fenneally, ritchie hogan, fogarty, david burke, galvin, conor ryan, kevin moran, barron,
the way hurling is played now I could name more players who are better midfielders than woodlock/shane mcgrath.
that in a game, being kind, that has 10 teams makes you an average county player.

shane mcgrath was a great midfielder but unfortunately is not now, do you think we should keep picking him for Nostalgic reasons.
woodlock has always been average.

Fennelly and Fogarty - that's it. Hogan is not a midfielder nor is Kevin Moran. David Burke, Barron, and Conor Ryan are potentially better - but have still not achieved anything in the game to rival McGrath. Who has been in the game a lot longer. Colm Galvin!>>!>! - having none of that. Woodlock and McGrath have consistently been at the latter end of the championship more than any of these players. Fennelly is probably the best midfielder to ever play the game. McGrath ran him closer than anyone the last decade - beat him in 2010. McGrath has five munster medals and one All-Ireland, to call him an average hurler is ridiculous. Same goes for Woodlock. All the hurlers you named are more or less elite hurlers. The cream of the crop. And, McGrath and Woodlock are just as good as any of them if not better- apart from Fennelly.

There's a whack of sourness off your logic, calling those players average, because have Tipp have failed at the final hurler against KK a number of times. That doesn't make players average. They got beaten by an excellent Galway team who ran up short against KK. KK are fantastic - the best squad of players and the best manager of all time. That's the yardstick, and McGrath and Woodlock came up short sometimes. But, for me, it was more half-forward problems that killed us, more often than not. That doesn't make those players average either - KK had an amazing half back line for a long time and still do. You talk about O'Shea as weak - he was part of Sheehy's team that won the ALL-I and had the balls to come back and take it on again. No weakness there. He did a fantastic job and came as close as you can get to getting the ultimate.

There's no point in being so dismissive of players or managers, what does it achieve? Particularly, when you don't back it up accurately.

If Tipp had the players they would have won - but, they didn't. We've had a serious dearth of half forwards for a long time - and, that's probably unfair too. They've just not been up to the task of that amazing KK half back line.

I liked the look of that KK team last year - and, they'll be stronger again this year. No doubts about it. Tipp are in transition - it's at least a three year rebuilding job. AT LEAST. these things take time - unless Tipp can unearth two to three mobile wing forwards who can get up and down the pitch - catch puck outs consistently, lay off ball accurately, and score long range points against KK. Until that happens - we'll come short. If we can unearth them we're in the business with the inside forwards and backs we have. And, the midfield was pretty good too - those men, McGrath and Woodlock will take replacing. They don't grow on trees...

I've been very critical of McGrath in the past - I don't think he should have been picked for two years. We should have started rebuilding sooner - but, to call him and Woodlock average or very average is... - I wouldn't dream of calling them average.

1eg0a3xv7b82of

evolving tipperary wrote: »

Fennelly and Fogarty - that's it. Hogan is not a midfielder nor is Kevin Moran. David Burke, Barron, and Conor Ryan are potentially better - but have still not achieved anything in the game to rival McGrath. Who has been in the game a lot longer. Colm Galvin!>>!>! - having none of that. Woodlock and McGrath have consistently been at the latter end of the championship more than any of these players. Fennelly is probably the best midfielder to ever play the game. McGrath ran him closer than anyone the last decade - beat him in 2010. McGrath has five munster medals and one All-Ireland, to call him an average hurler is ridiculous. Same goes for Woodlock. All the hurlers you named are more or less elite hurlers. The cream of the crop. And, McGrath and Woodlock are just as good as any of them if not better- apart from Fennelly.

There's a whack of sourness off your logic, calling those players average, because have Tipp have failed at the final hurler against KK a number of times. That doesn't make players average. They got beaten by an excellent Galway team who ran up short against KK. KK are fantastic - the best squad of players and the best manager of all time. That's the yardstick, and McGrath and Woodlock came up short sometimes. But, for me, it was more half-forward problems that killed us, more often than not. That doesn't make those players average either - KK had an amazing half back line for a long time and still do. You talk about O'Shea as weak - he was part of Sheehy's team that won the ALL-I and had the balls to come back and take it on again. No weakness there. He did a fantastic job and came as close as you can get to getting the ultimate.

There's no point in being so dismissive of players or managers, what does it achieve? Particularly, when you don't back it up accurately.

If Tipp had the players they would have won - but, they didn't. We've had a serious dearth of half forwards for a long time - and, that's probably unfair too. They've just not been up to the task of that amazing KK half back line.

I liked the look of that KK team last year - and, they'll be stronger again this year. No doubts about it. Tipp are in transition - it's at least a three year rebuilding job. AT LEAST. these things take time - unless Tipp can unearth two to three mobile wing forwards who can get up and down the pitch - catch puck outs consistently, lay off ball accurately, and score long range points against KK. Until that happens - we'll come short. If we can unearth them we're in the business with the inside forwards and backs we have. And, the midfield was pretty good too - those men, McGrath and Woodlock will take replacing. They don't grow on trees...

I've been very critical of McGrath in the past - I don't think he should have been picked for two years. We should have started rebuilding sooner - but, to call him and Woodlock average or very average is... - I wouldn't dream of calling them average.

ah go way. you asked for 8 names you got them. ritchie hogan got an all star at midfield 2 years ago. kevin moran also plays midfield. lee chin has played midfield too.
if you have a list of 20 midfielders and ours are ranked 11 and 12, that is average, not good not poor. just average.

EOS did a fantastic job, does that mean cody did a super duper job.
EOS also left a great legacy, which even you say is nothing but a 3 year rebuilding programme. Last year, look at how Breen was treated by EOS.

KK are only OK, not feared like they were.
Tipp and Clare are the 2 best teams in Ireland, there management has just not been right.
McGrath/woodlock if they retire or dropped, will not be missed. By actually not being in the squad it will improve tipps chances of winning the all ireland,.
Woodlock/McGrath are nothing but bottlenecks in the tipp team, they are a constraint that if replaced, will improve all the surrounding players. You are only as strong as your weakest link.

shane Mcgrath has been average since 2013.
Woodlock has always been average.
EOS picked both players, and that is the very proof that EOS was an average manager.
2013 was the year that EOS could have done what he wanted, 2012 was such a hammering, he could have come in and made some real changes.
Then we could say he has left a legacy, but 2013 against KK he did not even pick Bubbles.
He actually believed Forde was worth starting ahead of Bubbles, further proof that EOS has not got a clue.
Nowlan Park 2013, people have stated woodlock had a great game, he did if you think running around like a headless chicken is great hurling.
lar and eoin, they were great but 2012 should have been their last games for tipp.

i really want tipp to win 2016, so we can all come back here and I can say M Ryan and the new players did it for us and you can harp on about EOS legacy and those new players were not ready in 2013,2014,2015.

1eg0a3xv7b82of

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

To put all the blame on the coaching staff is nonsense. I know change is good but who will replace all those players and their experience to make the team better and the results better?
The fact EOS had them in his squad means they were the better players in the county.

So what is better? What do we do in its place that is better.
Completely meaningless Friendlies against who exactly? Playing the third level institutions is good prep as well as playing other counties as the third level institutions have to peak very early in the year so will be much more up to speed with things which makes them tricky opposition and good tests to have at the start of the year and ahead of the league

i have given you a small list of names, I am sure others could name more.
Shane mcgrath/woodlock are NOT the 2 best midfielders in Tipp, and 2016 will prove that if they both retire.
noel mcgrath/b maher/j mcgrath is the midfield we need to see 2016.

Mantis Toboggan

Shane McGrath and Woodlock aren't good enough anymore and arguably never were.

citykat

Marlee Shrilling Vegetable wrote: »

shane Mcgrath has been average since 2013.

He was an All Star in 2014!

buggy beag

Are u for real seriously?do you just like arguing for arguements sake?if the world says the sky is blue your going to say its red wit yellow polka dots.you just said what is better and i think that is the third time you have said it so let me answer you for a third and last time.i told you friendilies against other counties is something management seem to want to try this year and i agree.we have been playing the cyrstal cup for a few years now and from my expierence going to all the games i think there a waste of time.you have obviously been going to all the games as well and you have come up with a different opinion.u say they provide better opposition because they are peaking early well im sorry but i dont see that but from all the games you go to you obviously do so id just like to try something different if it works it works if it dont the world isnt going to collapse.you have your opinion which you just keep repeating and im not answering the same questions over and over

Paddico

Xenophile wrote: »

Well done Commercials, Michael Quinlivan will have to learn to stop dragging out of opposing players and swinging them around, he is too talented for that carry on.

However four of the Commercial players are a shoe in for the Tipp Senior team
Michael Quinlivan
Jack Kennedy
Seamus Kennedy and
Ian Fahey

As regards Management I believe that if Charlie McGeever would accept the job he should get it.

McGeever should accept what job.
Dont we have new Tipp football management team already?

digzy

Paddico wrote: »

McGeever should accept what job.
Dont we have new Tipp football management team already?

True

You'd think a staunch 'supporter' of tipp football would've heard this already;)

The Lost Sheep

Marlee Shrilling Vegetable wrote: »

i have given you a small list of names, I am sure others could name more.
Shane mcgrath/woodlock are NOT the 2 best midfielders in Tipp, and 2016 will prove that if they both retire.
noel mcgrath/b maher/j mcgrath is the midfield we need to see 2016.

2016 wont prove that at all. You don't always pick the best players to start you pick the best players to suit how you will play or what you are aiming for. There more than likely is better hurlers but not best suited to what the coaches want

buggy beag wrote: »

Are u for real seriously?do you just like arguing for arguements sake?if the world says the sky is blue your going to say its red wit yellow polka dots.you just said what is better and i think that is the third time you have said it so let me answer you for a third and last time.i told you friendilies against other counties is something management seem to want to try this year and i agree.we have been playing the cyrstal cup for a few years now and from my expierence going to all the games i think there a waste of time.you have obviously been going to all the games as well and you have come up with a different opinion.u say they provide better opposition because they are peaking early well im sorry but i dont see that but from all the games you go to you obviously do so id just like to try something different if it works it works if it dont the world isnt going to collapse.you have your opinion which you just keep repeating and im not answering the same questions over and over

:rolleyes:
Its a discussion forum. Why are you trying to stop discussion... Im not arguing for the sake of it. I just don't see how games between second and third string county sides are better prep than games against the universities and ITs who are in the middle of their season aiming to peak a few weeks later. That will always be stronger challenge than games against disinterested county sides

Spirit of 67

digzy wrote: »

True

You'd think a staunch 'supporter' of tipp football would've heard this already;)

Reckon that Barb was aimed at me , but then again I`ll be accused of being a Troll . However Kearns is definitely in , just a case of sorting out the rest of his Team , couple of minor complications but they are getting there , will be ratified soon . McGeever is burned out , had a long year between one thing and another and won`t be involved with the Minors next year , they are trying to put a Management Team together there at the moment .

Always a pleasure to keep you and the rest of the guys here informed .

digzy

Spirit of 67 wrote: »

Reckon that Barb was aimed at me

It wasn't actually.....but don't let that stop you from getting in a huff.
Post #2933 !!

1eg0a3xv7b82of

citykat wrote: »

He was an All Star in 2014!

of course the kk fan would love if we continued with mcgrath, 2014 was the year kk won the all ireland and tipp got most of the all stars.:pac:
McGrath did NOT deserve an all star 2014 and it was spoken about at the time that conor fogarty deserved it ahead of mcgrath and if not fogarty then lee chin.

Mantis Toboggan

Shane McGrath retirement confirmed. Good player, good contribution over the years, times right though for both player and team to move on.

evolving tipperary

Marlee Shrilling Vegetable wrote: »

citykat wrote: »

He was an All Star in 2014!

of course the kk fan would love if we continued with mcgrath, 2014 was the year kk won the all ireland and tipp got most of the all stars.:pac:
McGrath did NOT deserve an all star 2014 and it was spoken about at the time that conor fogarty deserved it ahead of mcgrath and if not fogarty then lee chin.

Lad, you've lost the plot. Shane McGrath had a great season in 2014- won his place back after being dropped earlier in the year. Credit where credit is due.
So, because KK won the ALL-IRE all fingers to point to McGrath being an average hurler and a major reason we lost?!??!! I'm beginning to think you're trolling! Stick to the point!

There were lots of reasons we lost - AFTER A REPLAY - that's very average too! Losing in an all-ireland final after a replay - very very average!!!! Our half-forward line was outplayed in the replay...

Don't ever mention Lee Chin in the same sentence as Shane McGrath again...that's ridiculous! Chin has a long way to go before he gets to Shane McGrath's level. I'm absolutely positive, Fennelly or any objective Wexford supporter would say the same thing...

citykat

Marlee Shrilling Vegetable wrote: »

of course the kk fan would love if we continued with mcgrath, 2014 was the year kk won the all ireland and tipp got most of the all stars.:pac:
McGrath did NOT deserve an all star 2014 and it was spoken about at the time that conor fogarty deserved it ahead of mcgrath and if not fogarty then lee chin.

I'll leave ye to pick ye're own team! Fogarty had a good shout for the all star in 2014 but McGrath was good for 3-4 pts a game which I think swung it for him in the end.