The Tipperary GAA (Club and intercounty) Discussion thread 2015

buggy beag

National Hurling League 2016

Feb. 13 Tipperary vs. Dublin Semple Stadium 7:00 p.m
Feb. 21 Tipperary vs. Kilkenny Nowlan Park 2:00 p.m
Mar. 6 Tipperary vs. Waterford Semple Stadium 2:30 p.m
Mar. 13 Tipperary vs. Galway Pearse Stadium 2:00 p.m
Mar. 20 Tipperary vs. Cork Semple Stadium 2:00 p.m

PlayByTheRules

Does anyone have any thoughts on who the new Tipp midfield pairing might be after recent retirements? Breen, Bergin, Bonnar? I was very impressed with Breen at full back for ye in the U21 this year. I wonder could he be tried at full back and Barry moved out to half back line, I think Barry could add more out the field even though he is a superb full back also. Bonnar might need to be crafted into a mid-fielder. Bergin was tried there and was okay at it but his shooting was very inaccurate.

1eg0a3xv7b82of

evolving tipperary wrote: »

Lad, you've lost the plot. Shane McGrath had a great season in 2014- won his place back after being dropped earlier in the year. Credit where credit is due.
So, because KK won the ALL-IRE all fingers to point to McGrath being an average hurler and a major reason we lost?!??!! I'm beginning to think you're trolling! Stick to the point!

There were lots of reasons we lost - AFTER A REPLAY - that's very average too! Losing in an all-ireland final after a replay - very very average!!!! Our half-forward line was outplayed in the replay...

Don't ever mention Lee Chin in the same sentence as Shane McGrath again...that's ridiculous! Chin has a long way to go before he gets to Shane McGrath's level. I'm absolutely positive, Fennelly or any objective Wexford supporter would say the same thing...

so i am trolling because i disagree with you.
shane mcgrath and com were great players for tipp, WERE is the correct tense.
Its good to see Michael Ryan is on my wavelength, all these players are being retired.

I said, tipp will win 2016 if M Ryan take's ownership back from the players, reminds them that they are only borrowing the jersey they do not own it.
Well hes made a good start.

Cody will have taken notice.

robbiezero

evolving tipperary wrote: »

Lad, you've lost the plot. Shane McGrath had a great season in 2014- won his place back after being dropped earlier in the year. Credit where credit is due.
So, because KK won the ALL-IRE all fingers to point to McGrath being an average hurler and a major reason we lost?!??!! I'm beginning to think you're trolling! Stick to the point!

There were lots of reasons we lost - AFTER A REPLAY - that's very average too! Losing in an all-ireland final after a replay - very very average!!!! Our half-forward line was outplayed in the replay...

Don't ever mention Lee Chin in the same sentence as Shane McGrath again...that's ridiculous! Chin has a long way to go before he gets to Shane McGrath's level. I'm absolutely positive, Fennelly or any objective Wexford supporter would say the same thing...

Well deserved All-Star for him in 2014. When we were really struggling in the first half of the replay, he scored 3 brilliant points to bring us back into the game as well as many other good displays that year most especially destroying the Cork midfield in the semi.

evolving tipperary

Marlee Shrilling Vegetable wrote: »

evolving tipperary wrote: »

Lad, you've lost the plot. Shane McGrath had a great season in 2014- won his place back after being dropped earlier in the year. Credit where credit is due.
So, because KK won the ALL-IRE all fingers to point to McGrath being an average hurler and a major reason we lost?!??!! I'm beginning to think you're trolling! Stick to the point!

There were lots of reasons we lost - AFTER A REPLAY - that's very average too! Losing in an all-ireland final after a replay - very very average!!!! Our half-forward line was outplayed in the replay...

Don't ever mention Lee Chin in the same sentence as Shane McGrath again...that's ridiculous! Chin has a long way to go before he gets to Shane McGrath's level. I'm absolutely positive, Fennelly or any objective Wexford supporter would say the same thing...

so i am trolling because i disagree with you.
shane mcgrath and com were great players for tipp, WERE is the correct tense.
Its good to see Michael Ryan is on my wavelength, all these players are being retired.

I said, tipp will win 2016 if M Ryan take's ownership back from the players, reminds them that they are only borrowing the jersey they do not own it.
Well hes made a good start.

Cody will have taken notice.

I'd be interested to know, how you know Michael Ryan is making these decisions rather than the players themselves?

1eg0a3xv7b82of

evolving tipperary wrote: »

I'd be interested to know, how you know Michael Ryan is making these decisions rather than the players themselves?

Its all in the timing. Think about it.
Lets forget about this topic for now as there will be more to retire/moved on and maybe I am being too harsh considering tj

Mantis Toboggan

I'd expect Lar to announce his retirement also over the next two weeks. The retirements so far do seem to be PR managed. Players meeting early in December, I'd expect the retirements to be sorted before then.

evolving tipperary

Marlee Shrilling Vegetable wrote: »

evolving tipperary wrote: »

I'd be interested to know, how you know Michael Ryan is making these decisions rather than the players themselves?

Its all in the timing. Think about it.
Lets forget about this topic for now as there will be more to retire/moved on and maybe I am being too harsh considering tj

Fair enough. Who do think were the best club hurlers outside of the county men this year? Would anyone like to see any hurler in particular brought into the squad...

Tyson Fury

Tyson Fury wrote: »

I'd expect Lar to announce his retirement also over the next two weeks. The retirements so far do seem to be PR managed. Players meeting early in December, I'd expect the retirements to be sorted before then.

Better some structure to it though then the botch job on Paul Curran last May.

Another big thank you to Rocky for his service and dedication and many excellent performances throughout.

Marlee Shrilling Vegetable

Marlee Shrilling Vegetable wrote: »

so i am trolling because i disagree with you.
shane mcgrath and com were great players for tipp, WERE is the correct tense.
Its good to see Michael Ryan is on my wavelength, all these players are being retired.

I said, tipp will win 2016 if M Ryan take's ownership back from the players, reminds them that they are only borrowing the jersey they do not own it.
Well hes made a good start.

Cody will have taken notice.

Well in fairness to Eamon i think he was trying to advocate a 'think for themselves' policy and he is heavily influenced by Johann Cruyff's methodology and the whole total football movement where players use their loaf rather then look toward their manager and shrug their shoulders.

I do agree in someways that Eamon's strength was more of a trainer and that he probably was more suited to that role then manager and he was more reluctant to react to things then maybe he should have. The whole creation of space theory while beautiful to watch, it is difficult to win an all ireland with it then say more 'conventional' methods with sweepers and high intensity (which while highly effective is utterly shíte to watch).

If im being utterly honest im not at all confident in Ryan. He was barely mentioned in both Lar and Cummins books and struggled to find selectors. That doesnt strike me as someone who inspires people. Im hearing both Eoin Kelly and Brian O'Meara were some of the names that turned him down. The whole selection of his selectors process had the whiff of a trolley dash in the end with John Madden ushered in and while i do rate Fannings input, what is the relationship going to be like given that Fanning was nowhere near his first choice?

Its going to be very difficult to contend next year. There might be too many feet under the kitchen sink in Clare i feel with two very strong contrasting personalities involved. I expect massive improvement from the Rebels though and Waterford will improve on last year. Limerick could go either way and so could the Mattie's (although after their utterly disgraceful conduct in ousting Cunningham they deserve nothing), and then of course our old foes sit proudly on top of the mountain and i'm not expecting anyone to as much as startle them in 2016.

Was it a clear out like you think or have the players genuinely decided they have had enough? We need recognise more the dedication and commitment that these guys have given tbh. Im not so sure whats coming along are good enough. I thought they might be but that u21 team have been disappointing.

buggy beag

evolving tipperary wrote:

Fair enough. Who do think were the best club hurlers outside of the county men this year? Would anyone like to see any hurler in particular brought into the squad...

Wouldnt really know the club scene all that well.would any of the nenagh lads deserve a shot after getting to the county final?i know mikey heffernan was around few years ago and think was him who got a goal or two in the final what do people think of him?only saw him a few times in tipp colours seemed the usual forward we have skillful good for a point or two but lightweight.would any of the clonakenny lads worth be looking at or is intermediate just to poor a standard to be looking at for players?

buggy beag

buggy beag wrote: »

Wouldnt really know the club scene all that well.would any of the nenagh lads deserve a shot after getting to the county final?i know mikey heffernan was around few years ago and think was him who got a goal or two in the final what do people think of him?only saw him a few times in tipp colours seemed the usual forward we have skillful good for a point or two but lightweight.would any of the clonakenny lads worth be looking at or is intermediate just to poor a standard to be looking at for players?

Not necessarily. Shane Mcgrath and Conor O'Mahony hurled intermediate don't forget. They've never hurled senior. Ive seen Willie Ryan hammer Walter Walsh in an u21 challenge a few years back and he'd be well worth a look and this was before he even put a bit of muscle on.

As for the Nenagh boys there is a good few lads on the minor/u21 panels but i think Mikey has had his go.Nice hurler and arguably better then Shane Bourke but tbh we need a different option there. John joe Farrell and Ger Aylward are not tall men but they are not afraid to mix it. We have too many that shy away for it. Cant help feeling that Pa can feel hard done by given that Shane Bourke or Mikey Heffernan have hardly set the world alight and dont offer much more.

Barry and Tommy on the other hand are worth a try. Barry looks the best all around of the Heffernans to be honest. Needs a gym program but a lovely hurler.

buggy beag

Was jason forde an intermediate with silvermines when he got called up?

buggy beag

buggy beag wrote: »

Was jason forde an intermediate with silvermines when he got called up?

He would have been yeah. Silvermines first year of senior was 2013 and Forde had hurled senior for Tipp before he did for the Mines. There will always be brilliant individual hurlers within Intermediate and Junior clubs. Hell our own John Leahy down here was the rising tide who lifted all the boats.

The club structure needs to be looked at. It would be good to look at the Kerry/Cork model where lads can hurl for Combos at Senior and their own clubs. Brendan Cummins said in his book that he would welcome this move. A Ballybacon/Newcastle combo played against Mullinahone back in 2003 and took a hammering at the time and the idea was buried after that which is a pity. It needed time and expertise but of course the clueless suits who do well out of Tipp hurling without striking a ball will always act rashly in certain situations when patience is required whereas they will watch Rome burn on other occasions when action is required.

The Lost Sheep

Marlee Shrilling Vegetable wrote: »

so i am trolling because i disagree with you. shane mcgrath and com were great players for tipp, WERE is the correct tense.
Its good to see Michael Ryan is on my wavelength, all these players are being retired.

I said, tipp will win 2016 if M Ryan take's ownership back from the players, reminds them that they are only borrowing the jersey they do not own it.
Well hes made a good start.

Cody will have taken notice.

I think you are reading into things too much and I think we all have to stop reading too much into phrases like "take ownership back from the players". Players having ownership or whatever means they've more responsibility whether that is what they do/how they act.

buggy beag wrote: »

Wouldnt really know the club scene all that well.would any of the nenagh lads deserve a shot after getting to the county final?i know mikey heffernan was around few years ago and think was him who got a goal or two in the final what do people think of him?only saw him a few times in tipp colours seemed the usual forward we have skillful good for a point or two but lightweight.would any of the clonakenny lads worth be looking at or is intermediate just to poor a standard to be looking at for players?

Like who? Perhaps Mike Heffernan but who else. I wouldn't call MH lightweight but just not up to the standard. Intermediate probably is not strong enough considering the issues we have with too many poor quality sides playing senior

Deleted User wrote: »

He would have been yeah. Silvermines first year of senior was 2013 and Forde had hurled senior for Tipp before he did for the Mines. There will always be brilliant individual hurlers within Intermediate and Junior clubs. Hell our own John Leahy down here was the rising tide who lifted all the boats.

The club structure needs to be looked at. It would be good to look at the Kerry/Cork model where lads can hurl for Combos at Senior and their own clubs. Brendan Cummins said in his book that he would welcome this move. A Ballybacon/Newcastle combo played against Mullinahone back in 2003 and took a hammering at the time and the idea was buried after that which is a pity. It needed time and expertise but of course the clueless suits who do well out of Tipp hurling without striking a ball will always act rashly in certain situations when patience is required whereas they will watch Rome burn on other occasions when action is required.

Club structure does need to be looked at but how to make changes? Clubs wont vote to go down a grade and tbh we need to lose about half the senior clubs we currently have. 16 is max size for a club championship IMO

The Lost Sheep

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Club structure does need to be looked at but how to make changes? Clubs wont vote to go down a grade and tbh we need to lose about half the senior clubs we currently have. 16 is max size for a club championship IMO

I tend to agree with that. Were a smaller county than Cork and Cork have only 18 clubs in total at Senior which is astonishing really. Would definitely experiment to see if the Kerry/Cork models might work though. We're a predominantly rural county and need to think outside the box a bit more. We need to experiment and try out things. Its the only way we will know what will work and what wont. We cant continue the way we are.

Mantis Toboggan

Lars retirement confirmed in an open letter on twitter. Great player on his day, had the pleasure of marking him. Never forget the all Ireland in 2010.

buggy beag

Tyson Fury wrote:

Lars retirement confirmed in an open letter on twitter. Great player on his day, had the pleasure of marking him. Never forget the all Ireland in 2010.

Always be a legend in my eyes

evolving tipperary

The best goalscorer of his generation? Certainly one of them

evolving tipperary

evolving tipperary wrote: »

The best goalscorer of his generation? Certainly one of them

A goal machine in his pomp. A sad day for Tipperary hurling because this guy was an incredible talent. I wish him the best of luck and many thanks for his 15 seasons in the blue and gold. A legend!

dastardly00

When he was having a good day, he was just fantastic. His goals destroyed us in the 2010 AI final. Best of luck to him in the future.

1eg0a3xv7b82of

Lar Corbett had some skill and 2010 against KK and 2011 against Waterford were Roy of the Rovers stuff.
It is sad to see him go, the same when Eoin Kelly retired.
Wouldn't be great if the County Board hired the two of them to tour our schools and clubs inspiring the next generation.

Assuming we have no retirees, the Tipp panel will have a different look about it in 2016. Gleeson aside, the core of young minor and under 21 winners from 06-10 are now the elder statesmen on the team.

Can Seamus Kennedy, Bill Maher , or John Meagher now step up to the mark? John Meagher is one such hurler that would be an addition if he stayed free of injury. We also can consider Mouse Dwyer who suffered a bad injury on his debut in Dublin last year, Ronan and Mikey Breen will no doubt use this years experience to their advantage as will John Mcgrath.

Ive no doubt there is good personnel there but im doubting the calibre there to lead them.

Can anyone confirm if Bonnar has played midfield for Lorrha before?

buggy beag

evolving tipperary wrote:

The best goalscorer of his generation? Certainly one of them

Damn right he was.was nothing more beautiful than lar in full stride bearing down on goal.legs like a gazelle finish like a snake bite,usually deadly.seamie imo is fast becoming like him.unplayable at times and usually when hes running at goal theres only one outcome.hes only 6 or 7 behind lar in the goal tally for tipp as well.

buggy beag

Marlee Shrilling Vegetable wrote:

Lar Corbett had some skill and 2010 against KK and 2011 against Waterford were Roy of the Rovers stuff. It is sad to see him go, the same when Eoin Kelly retired. Wouldn't be great if the County Board hired the two of them to tour our schools and clubs inspiring the next generation.

Ya remember being at the munster final 2011 what a fookin day that was.remeber watching the limerick semi in 09 and the commentator saying all of the tipp forwards have now scored except lar corbett so god help them if he does score.bang bang 2 goals from lar and 2 pts i think not long after.pity his shot cracked off the bar in 2014.what a way that would have been to end his career.thanks for the memories lar.they will live long in my memory.

1eg0a3xv7b82of

M Ryan has seen the trend that is happening in hurling, the game has gone defensive and that is not changing soon.
Because of the game tightening forwards will be heavily outnumbered and the middle will have heavy traffic, the team who are physically stronger will have a serious advantage.
expect a mix of players like denis maher, b. maher, breen, john meagher, with bubbles, noel mcgrath, forde to be our midfield line. And callinan, omeara, bonner to be our only dedicated players in the opposing 40.

This system bizarrely will actually help Tipp, we will place our dandies where they will have room and support, in the middle, and we will defeat teams by long range points and attacking the flanks.
But its a game plan that requires crazy levels of fitness and strength work and that is why the retirements are coming.

The Lost Sheep

Deleted User wrote: »

Assuming we have no retirees, the Tipp panel will have a different look about it in 2016. Gleeson aside, the core of young minor and under 21 winners from 06-10 are now the elder statesmen on the team.

Can Seamus Kennedy, Bill Maher, or John Meagher now step up to the mark? John Meagher is one such hurler that would be an addition if he stayed free of injury. We also can consider Mouse Dwyer who suffered a bad injury on his debut in Dublin last year, Ronan and Mikey Breen will no doubt use this years experience to their advantage as will John Mcgrath.

Ive no doubt there is good personnel there but im doubting the calibre there to lead them.

Can anyone confirm if Bonnar has played midfield for Lorrha before?

But 06-10 minor and u21 players are all now the guys you would expect to be the elder statemen on the team to an extent. They were first all Ireland age grade winning sides in 15 years for 21s and 10 years at minor so you would expect a lot to graduate to senior set up and 5 years since that under 21 title for a lot of that side to dominate the senior side.

Bonnar has played midfield with Lorrha quite a bit not as much recently though I think

The Lost Sheep

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

But 06-10 minor and u21 players are all now the guys you would expect to be the elder statemen on the team to an extent. They were first all Ireland age grade winning sides in 15 years for 21s and 10 years at minor so you would expect a lot to graduate to senior set up and 5 years since that under 21 title for a lot of that side to dominate the senior side.

Bonnar has played midfield with Lorrha quite a bit not as much recently though I think

Ah yeah i'm not suggesting they are green, they are well experienced at this stage and with the core of the squad being 25-27 its a good age profile. Darren Gleeson is now the only player over 30. We certainly have relatively young personnel and undoubted talented. Hoping we can find that extra ingredient. Can we now develop a gameplan to live with Kilkenny's intensity is the question?

PlayByTheRules

Marlee Shrilling Vegetable wrote: »

M Ryan has seen the trend that is happening in hurling, the game has gone defensive and that is not changing soon.
Because of the game tightening forwards will be heavily outnumbered and the middle will have heavy traffic, the team who are physically stronger will have a serious advantage.
expect a mix of players like denis maher, b. maher, breen, john meagher, with bubbles, noel mcgrath, forde to be our midfield line. And callinan, omeara, bonner to be our only dedicated players in the opposing 40.

This system bizarrely will actually help Tipp, we will place our dandies where they will have room and support, in the middle, and we will defeat teams by long range points and attacking the flanks.
But its a game plan that requires crazy levels of fitness and strength work and that is why the retirements are coming.

Very well said

buggy beag

Anybody hear anything eamon o shea being approached by galway?