Property Market 2015

The_Conductor

Its not really surprising that people are protesting- or that their protests are badly focused and ill conceived. The way Irish politics work- with its parochial ties- means- there isn't a centralised manner for people to protest (other than outside a government Department or the Houses of the Oireachtas).

The surprising thing in my eyes- is that people put up with so much more over the past 7-8 years- than the current proposals. I know you could argue that its the straw that broke the camels back- however- it would be far more fruitful to target people's rage productively at the big ticket items that have infuriated people- rather than taking the government's bait on an issue such as this- which the Minister is presenting in a manner such that its viewed as tenants against landlords- with the Minister and the regulatory bodies (and others)- simple bystanders on the side line (when nothing could be further than the truth).

The Minister has bolloxed up- yet again- however, rather than accept this bitter pill- he is instead further polarising society- by launching broadsides at vested interests (Landlords and tenants) in such a way that both are pointing their fingers at one another- when holding the Minister to account is what people should be doing...........

Santy2015

How have people on here dealt with moving into an unfurnished house? How did ye go about fitting kitchen,toilets,floors & room fixtures and fittings? CU loan? Remortgage?

Archaeoliz

Santy2015 wrote: »

How have people on here dealt with moving into an unfurnished house? How did ye go about fitting kitchen,toilets,floors & room fixtures and fittings? CU loan? Remortgage?

We kept extra money aside so we have deposit + estimated renovation cost saved.

Santy2015

Archaeoliz wrote:

We kept extra money aside so we have deposit + estimated renovation cost saved.

we will have some monies left hopefully after the deposit, solicitor fees so on are done but it wouldn't be enough to get everything we want as the houses we would be going for are unfurnished and are starting to sell and go up in price.

Archaeoliz

Santy2015 wrote: »

we will have some monies left hopefully after the deposit, solicitor fees so on are done but it wouldn't be enough to get everything we want as the houses we would be going for are unfurnished and are starting to sell and go up in price.

You don't have to do it all at once you know

Do the important bits like kitchen (IKEA are pretty good in my experience if you're on a budget and we will be too) and a barthroom, plus your bedroom. The rest can happen when you've got the money.

Just want to clarify - do you mean unfurnished, or unfinished? I sort of assume from what you say about kitchens and bathrooms that you're meaning unfinished rather than unfurnished?

Santy2015

Archaeoliz wrote:

You don't have to do it all at once you know

Do the important bits like kitchen (IKEA are pretty good in my experience if you're on a budget and we will be too) and a barthroom, plus your bedroom. The rest can happen when you've got the money.

Just want to clarify - do you mean unfurnished, or unfinished? I sort of assume from what you say about kitchens and bathrooms that you're meaning unfinished rather than unfurnished?

it would be unfinished I think the bathrooms are in them but the rest would need to be done. We have plenty of other bits and pieces like beds, tv and other things like that

Archaeoliz

Santy2015 wrote: »

it would be unfinished I think the bathrooms are in them but the rest would need to be done. We have plenty of other bits and pieces like beds, tv and other things like that

Good Luck!

sweetie

Look at adverts and freecycle for freebies, mates and family can also give or loan some stuff

Shedite27

Santy2015 wrote: »

How have people on here dealt with moving into an unfurnished house? How did ye go about fitting kitchen,toilets,floors & room fixtures and fittings? CU loan? Remortgage?

Doing it slowly, no couch or kitchen table for a few months, sleeping on an airbed for a few weeks, freebies and borrowed stuff from folks too.

Also availed of 0% interest from places like DFS and DID

Santy2015

Shedite27 wrote:

Doing it slowly, no couch or kitchen table for a few months, sleeping on an airbed for a few weeks, freebies and borrowed stuff from folks too.

Also availed of 0% interest from places like DFS and DID

we're not too bad in that regard. Have a bed/beds, kitchen table and a sofa to keep us going and other bedroom stuff abs a desk. It's the kitchen, kitchen appliances fireplace flooring painting that'll catch us

The_Conductor

Santy2015 wrote: »

How have people on here dealt with moving into an unfurnished house? How did ye go about fitting kitchen,toilets,floors & room fixtures and fittings? CU loan? Remortgage?

Cheapest end of line kitchen you can shake out of the likes of Woodies/Atlantic etc
Charity shops
Ikea

Get the absolute bare minimum- and you can replace/upgrade as you go by. Also try adverts and freecycle- also great places to get absolute necessities.

The key here is differentiating between *needs* (i.e. necessities) and *wants* (things that are nice- but that you can live without).

Cover the necessities by any means possible- and only then should you even consider your 'want' list.

Bob24

A plea for rent control - and other property market adjustments - which (I think) goes beyond the usual demagogic arguments: http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2015/11/02/why-we-need-rent-controls

handlemaster

Bob24 wrote: »

A plea for rent control - and other property market adjustments - which (I think) goes beyond the usual demagogic arguments: http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2015/11/02/why-we-need-rent-controls

Does Dave ever swim with the tide ! Im sure if the main arguments were for rent control he would say its a bad thing

seamus

To a certain extent it's a pretty typical McWilliams piece, "Ireland is screwed, it's the little guy who's paying for it, and it would be easily fixed if people just listened to me".

But he's not really laying out a framework except, "It works elsewhere, why not here". Which is funny when he spent the first 75% of the article talking about how crazy and unique the Irish market is and how "The economy is not a mathematical equation that delivers scientific answers and obeys rigid laws."

At the end he also seems to indicate that rent controls *are* an interference with the free market, and then explains how we can correct our market to make it freer. But doesn't a freer market conflict with introducing rent controls?

And also, "One thing is clear: the present system in Ireland isn’t working. So why pretend it is?". I don't think anyone is pretending that it is. Far from it.

In short it seems to be David saying, "You overpaying renters are propping up the entire property market because greedy landlords, greedy bankers and greedy developers won't let the greedy politicians do anything to reduce your rent."

gaius c

irishguy1983 wrote: »

Yeah the thing that is most surprising is is was never like this in Cork but having lived in Dublin for a few years I know it is relatively normally although gone up a bit.....

A bunch of people protested outside a place in Cork yesterday as a crappy 1 bed in the city was going for 1,200 a month!!!! Not sure what good the protest will do but there you go!!!

The whole thing leaves me living at home and frustrated but C'est La Vie

At this stage, the only effective way to protest is at the ballot booth because the crisis is entirely because of policy.

Bob24

seamus wrote: »

At the end he also seems to indicate that rent controls *are* an interference with the free market, and then explains how we can correct our market to make it freer. But doesn't a freer market conflict with introducing rent controls?

That what he is saying I think: of course rent control is interfering with free market; but for that argument to be credible in anyone's mouth as a reason not to implement it, that person also needs to be arguing against all the other ways in which the Irish property market is currently being tempered with (which is the case of very few people). If not doing that, it is just a case of someone happily applying great principles when it fits their agenda and conveniently ignoring them when they are going against their interest.

Basically either you support free market or you don't; but if you are against rent control because it goes against free market and at the same time you are very fine with things like taxpayers subsiding mortgages in arrears (which tempers with the property market at least as much - and probably more - than rent control), your are nothing more than a lobbyist defending your own interest.

Archaeoliz

Tiny snapshot of the sales/purchase market in rural Wicklow. House advertised at €350k, offer accepted at €335k, survey ok but what was expected. Bank valuation for mortgage came in at €270k!

The_Conductor

Archaeoliz wrote: »

Tiny snapshot of the sales/purchase market in rural Wicklow. House advertised at €350k, offer accepted at €335k, survey ok but what was expected. Bank valuation for mortgage came in at €270k!

I'm not sure what the moral of that is- perhaps that the valuation for mortgage purposes should be done earlier in the equation- before you've wasted too much of your time?

It is telling though- the bank is valuing the property at 20% less than the OMSP- which is quite a significant divergence.

Were you bidding against other parties- were they legitimate prospective purchasers- and realistically- what would they have been willing to pay for the property.

Ignore the seller's asking price- thats pie in the sky- a figure they have magic'ed out of thin air. The fact that your offer of 10% less than asking was accepted- simply validates that their asking price was something purely hypothetical.

You yourself have set a market price for the property- the valuer obviously disputes that anyone other than you would be willing to pay what you offered- which is where you are at...........

On what basis did you offer what you offered (aka- did you look at the Property Price Register for the area- and base it on what other property in the area has achieved- or was your approach to try and knock the seller down to a level you felt more comfortable with- but the bank obviously disagree with.........)?

gaius c

Rule of thumb is that if you're not embarrassed by your first offer, it's too high.

Santy2015

You can go on daft and see the difference between 2 house 50 yards apart in the same estate. Hard to fathom how one is 120k and the other 145k. Very strange market we are in

eringobragh

gaius c wrote: »

Rule of thumb is that if you're not embarrassed by your first offer, it's too high.

Is this instance, yes. :cool:. .but if you tried that in the current Dublin market you'd probably be branded a time waster

The_Conductor

eringobragh wrote: »

Is this instance, yes. :cool:. .but if you tried that in the current Dublin market you'd probably be branded a time waster

Depends entirely on what you're trying to buy- and where. The number of sales falling through in Dublin- is at startling levels (primarily- because people, akin to a previous poster- offer vastly in excess of what banks value property at to the EA- in the presumption their lender will simply pony up). That said- house prices are stable- and there is a ready market for them- coming in with a lowball offer- will get you ignored. Apartment prices- on the other hand- have turned- and while I wouldn't characterize them as being in freefall- they are showing some startling reductions in prices achieved.

Know your market- and have a good idea of the bigger picture- when deciding on a course of action to pursue if you're interested in a property.

I Am The Law

It looks like there will be less CB rules exemptions available in 2016 as applications from this year are tranfered to next.

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2015/1106/740159-kbc-mortgages/

gaius c

eringobragh wrote: »

Is this instance, yes. :cool:. .but if you tried that in the current Dublin market you'd probably be branded a time waster

In two months time, I'll have a handy story to share here on this very subject.

gaius c

I Am The Law wrote: »

It looks like there will be less CB rules exemptions available in 2016 as applications from this year are tranfered to next.

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2015/1106/740159-kbc-mortgages/

They burned through the exemptions for all of 2015 in only 6 months. There's going to be a serious adjustment next year.

gaius c

To illustrate this, KBC are "taking" buyers out of the 2015 market and putting them into the 2016 market. This will in turn boot 2016 buyers hoping to use exemptions into 2017.
http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2015/1106/740159-kbc-mortgages/

Or else they can just get with the program and get a mortgage that keeps them within the limits.

Alter_Ego

There should be no exceptions at all. 3.5 times your income, 10% deposit regardless of the house value, first or second time buyer.

At the same time supply issue needs to be addressed by measures mentioned already numerous times in this thread. Lower taxes, time bound planning permissions and tax on development land sitting dormant.

The government is just inept and stupid. It's better to have 20% tax income when a lot of developers are building than 40% of nothing instead.

BannerBarry

Define Income, is it Net Profit for the Self employed; does it include Dividend Income in the calculation etc?

Alter_Ego

BannerBarry wrote: »

Define Income, is it Net Profit for the Self employed; does it include Dividend Income in the calculation etc?

It's not your net income when you're employed, it's your gross income. It could be gross income for the self employed too. Banks asses your repayment capacity based on your net income, the 3.5 gross income multiplayer is just a maximum you can borrow if everything else checks out. So if you have large gross income, but low net income, you won't be given a crazy mortgage either, because your repayment capacity is poor.

over_leveraged

gaius c wrote: »

Rule of thumb is that if you're not embarrassed by your first offer, it's too high.

thats not a rule of thumb , its a banal cliche which those over at the likes of the property pin , think are pearls of wisdom

if you low ball to an absurd degree , you risk being dismissed as a crank , if the property is anywhere in dublin , kildare , wicklow , meath , galway city , cork city ( all markets with plenty of demand ) , dont bid any lower than 15% below the asking and thats assuming the asking is in line with the property price register