Property Market 2015

El_Dangeroso

The_Conductor wrote: »

The little people who are going through hell- but are paying their debts- I would argue- are every bit as entitled to help-as are those who aren't paying their debts because of a change in their circumstances.

More entitled if you ask me, there should always be a reward for paying your debt and a punishment for not. At the moment it's the opposite and that's causing huge inequality.

farrerg

The_Conductor wrote: »

Cognisance also needs to be made of people's lifestyles.
Many people have gone through hell on earth to pay their mortgages at any cost- while their similarly income affected neighbours have given up on paying their mortgages- but continue to have holidays, nice clothes and keep a car on the road.

Agree 100%, during the crash I was dealing with these cases. You have some people doing everything they could to come to an arrangement with their lenders to meet their obligations.

Then I had one person who couldn't make a restructuring meeting because they were going to the galway races, immensely frustrating. It would kill me if banks were made to hand someone like this a write off over the person who really tries their best

helimachoptor

helimachoptor wrote: »

Update this morning, bid of 525K has gone in.

We are out at this stage and onto look hard at other properties

Spoke with the EA this morning.. the bid of 525 that beat us has been rejected

Interesting approach from the vendors :pac:

johnp001

farrerg wrote: »

Agree 100%, during the crash I was dealing with these cases. You have some people doing everything they could to come to an arrangement with their lenders to meet their obligations.

Then I had one person who couldn't make a restructuring meeting because they were going to the galway races, immensely frustrating. It would kill me if banks were made to hand someone like this a write off over the person who really tries their best

Do you have any faith that our government can legislate and put in place a state body that can successfully and incorruptibly implement a scheme which will be able to identify the deserving cases and weed out those who have made no effort to meet their obligations?

The_Conductor

johnp001 wrote: »

Do you have any faith that our government can legislate and put in place a state body that can successfully and incorruptibly implement a scheme which will be able to identify the deserving cases and weed out those who have made no effort to meet their obligations?

Short and simple- no.
The fairest thing of all- is to make everyone responsible for their debts- full stop. If you don't pay- you get kicked out in a prompt manner- and your property on which the debt is secured- gets sold. I would argue- in the interests of fairness- that any negative equity when selling these properties- should be borne by the lender- and not follow the borrower- but that is the only exception I would make.

johnp001

The_Conductor wrote: »

Short and simple- no.
The fairest thing of all- is to make everyone responsible for their debts- full stop. If you don't pay- you get kicked out in a prompt manner- and your property on which the debt is secured- gets sold. I would argue- in the interests of fairness- that any negative equity when selling these properties- should be borne by the lender- and not follow the borrower- but that is the only exception I would make.

Agree 100%. The idea that it would ever be remotely possible to set up and run such a scheme is ridiculous to my mind.
I can't believe that it is being given serious consideration by the government (or at the very least paid lip service to in the run up to an election)

The situation you describe above is the only workable solution.

farrerg

johnp001 wrote: »

Do you have any faith that our government can legislate and put in place a state body that can successfully and incorruptibly implement a scheme which will be able to identify the deserving cases and weed out those who have made no effort to meet their obligations?

None at all, if the banks struggle to do it, it's hard to see them doing any better. In fact, I think they be a far softer touch and it'll cost us all a fortune.

farrerg

The_Conductor wrote: »

Short and simple- no.
The fairest thing of all- is to make everyone responsible for their debts- full stop. If you don't pay- you get kicked out in a prompt manner- and your property on which the debt is secured- gets sold. I would argue- in the interests of fairness- that any negative equity when selling these properties- should be borne by the lender- and not follow the borrower- but that is the only exception I would make.

Exactly, faster repossessions will quickly sort the genuine cases from those chancing their arm. Schemes to write off some or all of the negative equity left, or to rent back the property, can be used to help people who are deserving

johnp001

farrerg wrote: »

Exactly, faster repossessions will quickly sort the genuine cases from those chancing their arm. Schemes to write off some or all of the negative equity left, or to rent back the property, can be used to help people who are deserving

This just seems like common sense.
What is the driver behind the concerted campaign to do the exact opposite?
e.g. grinding repossession to a standstill and prevaricating on resolving the issue of unsustainable debt by proposing grandiose unworkable schemes that could never even be legislated for let alone implemented and would be a legal minefield and a complete money pit if they ever got off the drawing board.

fret_wimp2

johnp001 wrote: »

This just seems like common sense.
What is the driver behind the concerted campaign to do the exact opposite?

General Election in less than a year.

gaius c

helimachoptor wrote: »

Spoke with the EA this morning.. the bid of 525 that beat us has been rejected

Interesting approach from the vendors :pac:

Is it one of these?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056977313

Rowley Birkin QC

Any thoughts on this property in D3?

http://www.daft.ie/sales/15-james-street-north-north-strand-dublin/1048669/

Current bid is at 310k.

Pros
Close to Eastpoint, town and IFSC
Area seems quiet.
Renovated to a high standard
Walk in condition
A lot of property moving in the area
Good BER

Cons
Small bedrooms
1 bathroom
No garden
On street parking
Overvalued?

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Looks nice Rowley. Wouldn't be mad on the floors myself but that's a personal thing. Suppose it depends where you are at in life. If you are on your own or young professional couple working in the city it would be perfect. Some room to increase the family size if that's in your medium term thinking, but the lack of a garden and green space outside might be an issue in that scenario. Price is also a bit on the steep side now, do you have a figure in mind that you would pay for it?

On the plus side if you did decide to move on in 5 years time I would say you'd have no problem renting that place out due to its location if that's what you want to do.

MarkAnthony

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

Any thoughts on this property in D3?

http://www.daft.ie/sales/15-james-street-north-north-strand-dublin/1048669/

Current bid is at 310k.

Utterly insane.

The amount people will pay for a nicely done property is madness. Firstly go and have a look at the area, personally I wouldn't have an issue with the area, I wouldn't go wandering around at night but it'd be fine during the day - as long as you don't mind dodging the occasional junkie.

You're going to get a lot of noise from the train line. You'll be having a few arguments over parking, and you'll need to live with the fact that given 200K (150K for the building and 50K to do it up) you'd have done the same yourself a lot cheaper.

Come game time at Croke Park you'll also want somewhere else to live/stay inside that weekend.

El_Dangeroso

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Utterly insane.

The amount people will pay for a nicely done property is madness. Firstly go and have a look at the area, personally I wouldn't have an issue with the area, I wouldn't go wandering around at night but it'd be fine during the day - as long as you don't mind dodging the occasional junkie.

You're going to get a lot of noise from the train line. You'll be having a few arguments over parking, and you'll need to live with the fact that given 200K (150K for the building and 50K to do it up) you'd have done the same yourself a lot cheaper.

Come game time at Croke Park you'll also want somewhere else to live/stay inside that weekend.

Just as aside but I think it would cost a lot more than 50K to put that kind of finish on a house that old wouldn't you think? You'd be surprised how far 50K doesn't go.

MarkAnthony

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Just as aside but I think it would cost a lot more than 50K to put that kind of finish on a house that old wouldn't you think? You'd be surprised how far 50K doesn't go.

Meh, possibly and to be fair prices in that area are insane compared to what they were even 12 months ago. There's been a lot of development in the area but not enough new people, and there never will be, to change the nature of the area. That said the more you go towards east wall the better it gets. IMHO there's a localised bubble there.

That said I do find people spend insane money on things like kitchens when really a very good job can be done with a decent fitter. For that place I'd expect:

Rewire 6K
Kitchen 10K
Plaster, decorate, knock in a wall 10K
Bathroom 3K
Appliances 4K
Roof ??
Heating/Replumb ??

So 50K is about right. On the other hand if you engage an architect and project manager, pay retail prices on everything it would be more.

MayBea

Looking at the state it was in initially, I would think it is more than 50K. They had the new roof and gutters installed, not mentioning the exterior work.
They had (possibly) new utility room with skylights, re-plastered, re-wired & re-plumbed the entire house..All this combined with architect/interior designer fees could reach 100k very easily nowadays.

MarkAnthony wrote: »

So 50K is about right. On the other hand if you engage an architect and project manager, pay retail prices on everything it would be more.

gaius c

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

Any thoughts on this property in D3?

http://www.daft.ie/sales/15-james-street-north-north-strand-dublin/1048669/

Current bid is at 310k.

Pros
Close to Eastpoint, town and IFSC
Area seems quiet.
Renovated to a high standard
Walk in condition
A lot of property moving in the area
Good BER

Cons
Small bedrooms
1 bathroom
No garden
On street parking
Overvalued?

On the face of it, €331 per sq foot doesn't seem too bad for a location close to the city centre but there would be a certain amount of "grime" to put up with. Check it out yourself at all times of the day to see what the area is really like and make sure you check out the neighbours. It's not beyond EA's to give neighbours a few quid to disappear while a viewing is on.

Rowley Birkin QC

Cheers. We've lived in the general area (more over towards Fairview and Marino) through college and first few years in our jobs (IFSC & Eastpoint) so would be reasonably familiar with the local do's and dont's, matchday crowds etc.

Have been there in morning, lunchtime, night-time and weekends. It's consistently quiet.

Our rent went up by 18% this year and this place comes in under that monthly figure, even on a fixed 5 year rate. Thoughts are to take that, lived there for most if not all of that time and then get out either by renting or selling up.

Cheers for the input. It's all slightly terrifying!

MarkAnthony

MayBea wrote: »

Looking at the state it was in initially, I would think it is more than 50K. They had the new roof and gutters installed, not mentioning the exterior work.
They had (possibly) new utility room with skylights, re-plastered, re-wired & re-plumbed the entire house..All this combined with architect/interior designer fees could reach 100k very easily nowadays.

I doubt it tbh, even if they bought in 2011 when a house sold down there at 70K, 100K invested would still only yield 100K gross - about 50K net. Granted it's likely a builder flipping these but I still don't buy 100K has gone into that property at that location. Would it cost the OP more to do up the house than 50K - perhaps, 100K - you'd be mental on North Strand.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

Cheers. We've lived in the general area (more over towards Fairview and Marino) through college and first few years in our jobs (IFSC & Eastpoint) so would be reasonably familiar with the local do's and dont's, matchday crowds etc.

Have been there in morning, lunchtime, night-time and weekends. It's consistently quiet.

Our rent went up by 18% this year and this place comes in under that monthly figure, even on a fixed 5 year rate. Thoughts are to take that, lived there for most if not all of that time and then get out either by renting or selling up.

Cheers for the input. It's all slightly terrifying!

Just be careful if you buy now you'll use up your first time buyer lower deposit. Won't really be an issue if you are going to save for a while in that house but just something to bear in mind.

MayBea

MarkAnthony wrote: »

I doubt it tbh, even if they bought in 2011 when a house sold down there at 70K, 100K invested would still only yield 100K gross - about 50K net. Granted it's likely a builder flipping these but I still don't buy 100K has gone into that property at that location. Would it cost the OP more to do up the house than 50K - perhaps, 100K - you'd be mental on North Strand.

You must be right area-wise as I am not familiar with North Strand at all, I must confess.

jetfiremuck

The_Conductor wrote: »

Short and simple- no.
The fairest thing of all- is to make everyone responsible for their debts- full stop. If you don't pay- you get kicked out in a prompt manner- and your property on which the debt is secured- gets sold. I would argue- in the interests of fairness- that any negative equity when selling these properties- should be borne by the lender- and not follow the borrower- but that is the only exception I would make.

Extend mortgages to 40, 50 years until the mess gets cleaned up. In time it will. The interest paid will be a return for pension funds etc. at least the pressure is off. This would be for people needing a little breathing room. The freeloaders or non payers get kicked out repossessed.

johnp001

jetfiremuck wrote: »

Extend mortgages to 40, 50 years until the mess gets cleaned up. In time it will. The interest paid will be a return for pension funds etc. at least the pressure is off. This would be for people needing a little breathing room. The freeloaders or non payers get kicked out repossessed.

I wish I was as optimistic that this mess will be cleaned up in time.
This government was off to a good start handling the property crisis that existed when they took office.
They repealed the legislation that led to the Dunne judgement which effectively allowed repossessions to go ahead again.
They removed the CGT exemption to help slow the bubble (in hindsight a year too late)
But their latest actions, suggesting that we can afford to house people at the government's expense in whatever property they borrowed for in the bubble whether or not the debt is sustainable or whether they are making meaningful payments for it or not has already led to an increase in the latest figures fior short-term arrears.
The situation is getting worse and I can't see it getting better while the New Land League, IMHO etc seem to be setting the government policy.
They have achieved some excellent spin and collusion from the media but their agenda is completely inimical to a functioning property market or indeed a functioning economy.

CruelCoin

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Meh, possibly and to be fair prices in that area are insane compared to what they were even 12 months ago. There's been a lot of development in the area but not enough new people, and there never will be, to change the nature of the area. That said the more you go towards east wall the better it gets. IMHO there's a localised bubble there.

That said I do find people spend insane money on things like kitchens when really a very good job can be done with a decent fitter. For that place I'd expect:

Rewire 6K
Kitchen 10K
Plaster, decorate, knock in a wall 10K
Bathroom 3K
Appliances 4K
Roof ??
Heating/Replumb ??

So 50K is about right. On the other hand if you engage an architect and project manager, pay retail prices on everything it would be more.

Holy hell. Whoever you've had in for tradesmen in the past has totally ripped you off.

Just finished my own home. Re-wire, 2k. Kitchen 5k. 4 x bathrooms 4k.

OP, 50k, will get you a lot lot more if you spend even 10 minutes shopping around.

MarkAnthony

CruelCoin wrote: »

Holy hell. Whoever you've had in for tradesmen in the past has totally ripped you off.

Just finished my own home. Re-wire, 2k. Kitchen 5k. 4 x bathrooms 4k.

OP, 50k, will get you a lot lot more if you spend even 10 minutes shopping around.

2K for a rewire - I simply don't believe you. Not done to a proper standard with a modern fit including those fiddly under lighters etc. and enough sockets for a modern fit.

Granted you'd come in lower than the figures I gave if you shopped around, but as others have pointed out there was work I missed and I expected that to be the case.

slowjoe17

Mongfinder General wrote: »

Why should owner occupiers be penalised?

If they over-borrowed, it is necessary for the health of the market that they face the pain.

If the property market continues to rise as in 2014, there will be little pain aside from lack of flexibility for a period of time.

If the market drops, or (worse) interest rates rise, they'll be in serious problems.

The alternative is that Someone bails them out. Since Someone is usually the taxpayer, that's deeply unfair.

slowjoe17

jetfiremuck wrote: »

Extend mortgages to 40, 50 years until the mess gets cleaned up. In time it will. The interest paid will be a return for pension funds etc. at least the pressure is off. This would be for people needing a little breathing room. The freeloaders or non payers get kicked out repossessed.

Who has a 40-50 year working life to pay off a mortgage?

"until the mess gets cleaned up"?

What happens if a family spends 10 years struggling, then they lose a job (if you have a 10% chance of a single job loss, you have 19% chance of the loss of one of two jobs)? Or interest rates rise? Or the market drops again?

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

tharmor

Guys just started home hunting....how good is adamstown and lucan area safety wise ? Also a noob question, but are the prices on property sites not accurate...someone might have bid for a higher price ??

The_Conductor

tharmor wrote: »

Guys just started home hunting....how good is adamstown and lucan area safety wise ? Also a noob question, but are the prices on property sites not accurate...someone might have bid for a higher price ??

I've grown up in Lucan and have lived here all my life.
You will always have the odd bad apple in any area- however, Lucan, in general, is a reasonable area, mostly settled with young families, and the range of amenities and facilities on your doorstep are vastly better than they once were.

Adamstown- is high density housing- don't kid yourself if you imagine its not. However- it has its own train station, several schools within walking distance, Superquinn, the library and Finnstown- all within a stones throw for someone who isn't particularly good at throwing stones.

If you're planning on using a car- I would seriously suggest you visit at around 9AM and 6PM- to get a feel for what the traffic situation is- the crap that an estate agent might try to sell you is high grade manure- the big downside to the area is the traffic.

However- the flipside of the coin- is the area has the most frequent bus service of anywhere on Dublin Buses routes- which gently meander through all the developments to the south of Lucan, out onto the N4 at Woodies- and then in on the bus lanes, to Merrion Square (the new terminus area for Lucan- which I have say is working remarkably well).

A lot of Adamstown was vacant, and at least 2 estates unfinished- when the property bubble burst. These properties have been drip fed onto the market since then- and the final estates are going ahead (albeit under new planning restrictions).

You need to go and look at Adamstown- it would be remiss not to. It is high density housing- but with the provision of facilities and amenities in the immediate vicinity- an omission which has plagued other high density developments in Ireland traditionally.

Have a look- draw your own conclusions- try to get a feel for its better and worse points- and definitely try to see it at 9AM in the morning and 6PM in the evening- to get an idea of how bad the traffic can be.