Property Market 2015

Senecio

The_Conductor wrote: »

No- its always been this way- you cannot have owned property in Ireland or abroad previously- in order to qualify as a first time buyer. Its been this way for over 30 years- and its not unique to AIB.

I had this argument with a lender a little over a year back. Just felt it was a bit hypocritical that they won't recognise us as FTB's but also won't allow us to use the 300K EUR equity in our overseas property and other overseas assets in our mortgage application.

tharmor

Senecio wrote:

I had this argument with a lender a little over a year back. Just felt it was a bit hypocritical that they won't recognise us as FTB's but also won't allow us to use the 300K EUR equity in our overseas property and other overseas assets in our mortgage application.

Can't agree more !!

P. Breathnach

jmayo wrote: »

...
Also I think the bottom three should have Donetsk rather than Kiev.

There is a shortage of habitable properties on the Donetsk market.

Eugene Norman

stevedublin wrote: »

Higher property prices make it more worthwhile to build new property and so increase stock of houses/appts.

This argument is circular. You need higher property prices or no building locks in higher property prices.

Barely Hedged

Senecio wrote: »

I had this argument with a lender a little over a year back. Just felt it was a bit hypocritical that they won't recognise us as FTB's but also won't allow us to use the 300K EUR equity in our overseas property and other overseas assets in our mortgage application.

Why would an Irish bank bother themselves with lending to you when the collateral you are posting is tied up in a different jurisdiction? Any idea of the hassle and cost associated with retrieving this collateral if you default?

Michael D Not Higgins

Senecio wrote: »

I had this argument with a lender a little over a year back. Just felt it was a bit hypocritical that they won't recognise us as FTB's but also won't allow us to use the 300K EUR equity in our overseas property and other overseas assets in our mortgage application.

How do you propose to use equity to buy a house? Were you planning to sell abroad and move to Ireland or was it part of a chain, i.e. selling and buying at the same time? It's difficult for a bank in Ireland to determine the level of equity in a house abroad that they haven't seen and don't have any records for it.

Barely Hedged

jmayo wrote: »

Interesting and scary.

It has top 3 of Ireland, Dubai and Tallinn.

They even have the cheeky sentence to start it off



I know plenty of cottages that are still worth fook all and very much look like remaining that way for the forseeable future.
Maybe I just live in the wrong area or maybe they are talking about a cottage off Shrewsbury Road or in Foxrock :rolleyes:

Two of the places with the biggest bubble prices are now being touted as the best performers yet again.

Am I the only one that finds that scary as sh** and shows we as a species seem to be incapable of learning.

Also I think the bottom three should have Donetsk rather than Kiev.

This is an article written by an Argentinean travel writer.

How much weight would you attach to her insight into the international or Irish property market for that matter?

It's a light hearted article at best

Barely Hedged

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

The Irish are enamored with property and its ownership, probably a deep seated physiological thing harking back to the time of the plantations etc. This, combined with an inexplicable desire to "one up" each other has led to the mass buying in leafy Dublin postcodes, thus upping the price. There is a connection in peoples' minds between owning a house in Foxrock and success. It doesn't matter how exposed you are to debt, nor does it matter that one single interest rate rise will have you in the red, all that matters is that you can stick D4 on the end of your address. Its not logical, its not good sense but it is inherently Irish. I despair.

Or maybe people who are successful want to live in nice areas?

Another Irish trait on display in this post - begrudgery

gaius c

fret_wimp2 wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance and language but what the F**K does Brendan O'Connor, a (pretty terrible) talkshow host, know about property that he gets to advise the nation in a national newspaper?

He knows that he bought an expensive house during the bubble and watched in horror as the value dropped so he has a vested interest in higher house prices.

As do many other folk writing in our papers.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Barely Hedged wrote: »

Or maybe people who are successful want to live in nice areas?

Another Irish trait on display in this post - begrudgery

Yeah people during the property bubble who got 5-6 times their salaries as 110% mortgages were super successful. Indebting yourself up to the tits is a real sign of a go getter.

Barely Hedged

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Yeah people during the property bubble who got 5-6 times their salaries as 110% mortgages were super successful. Indebting yourself up to the tits is a real sign of a go getter.

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

The Irish are enamored with property and its ownership, probably a deep seated physiological thing harking back to the time of the plantations etc. This, combined with an inexplicable desire to "one up" each other has led to the mass buying in leafy Dublin postcodes, thus upping the price. There is a connection in peoples' minds between owning a house in Foxrock and success. It doesn't matter how exposed you are to debt, nor does it matter that one single interest rate rise will have you in the red, all that matters is that you can stick D4 on the end of your address. Its not logical, its not good sense but it is inherently Irish. I despair.

Do you have statistics on the LTV ratios of people who buy in these areas or their rate of repayment to support your points?

Senecio

Barely Hedged wrote: »

Why would an Irish bank bother themselves with lending to you when the collateral you are posting is tied up in a different jurisdiction? Any idea of the hassle and cost associated with retrieving this collateral if you default?

I wasn't quite clear. I had to declare the mortgage as a liability but could not declare the asset or the rental income derived which was covering the mortgage. It's not a true representation of my ability to repay the debt.

Barely Hedged

Senecio wrote: »

I wasn't quite clear. I had to declare the mortgage as a liability but could not declare the asset or the rental income derived which was covering the mortgage. It's not a true representation of my ability to repay the debt.

It can't be considered as an asset in your application because it's unrecoverable in the event of default.

NinjaTruncs

Senecio wrote: »

I wasn't quite clear. I had to declare the mortgage as a liability but could not declare the asset or the rental income derived which was covering the mortgage. It's not a true representation of my ability to repay the debt.

Even if the asset was in Ireland the banks (BOI anyway) won't consider rental income when determining repayment capacity.

gaius c

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

Even if the asset was in Ireland the banks (BOI anyway) won't consider rental income when determining repayment capacity.

And rightly so. Too many poor loans given out on the basic of "projected" rental income.

tharmor

Barely Hedged wrote:

It can't be considered as an asset in your application because it's unrecoverable in the event of default.

Why not when i have no outstanding mortgage on the property abroad ? Just because i have a property abroad purchased on mortgage but prepaid entire mortgage currently shud not qualify me as a non first time buyer !!

Bob24

tharmor wrote: »

Why not when i have no outstanding mortgage on the property abroad ?

Because assets you have abroad would be much more difficult (if not impossible) for the bank to leverage in case you default on your mortgage. It definitely makes sense for them not to let you use them as colaterals.

tharmor wrote: »

Just because i have a property abroad purchased on mortgage but prepaid entire mortgage currently shud not qualify me as a non first time buyer !!

This one is arguable: does first time buyer mean first time buyer in Ireland or first time buyer anywhere in the world? I would personally think it should mean FTB in Ireland but there are valid arguments either way.

kjr77

Mongfinder General wrote: »

You're right about apartment living. However, for 200k you are looking at living in a house in an area like Finglas South, Darndale, Balbriggan or similar kipp

Balbriggan bashing yet again mongfinder, you really have it in for the place. Its on the M1, 20min from the airport, has train and bus links to city, has a new shopping centre with tesco, easons, boots, mcdonalds, cinema ect. it has some lovely places to go for a walk, beaches, ardgillian demense ect. If it is a "kipp" as you have described then most of the towns in ireland could also be described as kipps. A lot of people are working hard to improve things and your comment are unhelpful.

johnp001

Emigration is just part of the story in decline of our twentysomethings

Dan O'Brien has an interesting article today on the demographic changes mentioned earlier in this thead.
Short version:
50% birth rates
30% emigration
20% aging of the 20 something immigrants from the last decade

mel123

Senecio wrote: »

I had this argument with a lender a little over a year back. Just felt it was a bit hypocritical that they won't recognise us as FTB's but also won't allow us to use the 300K EUR equity in our overseas property and other overseas assets in our mortgage application.

Even if you have Irish property, they wont allow this as equity. I got told 'but sure you can sell it at any time'.

**sorry im reading down, I an see other people have said this also

mel123

I got an email today from my local Bank of Ireland:

We are now paying 2% cash back on full mortgage amount e.g. 4,000 cash back on a 200,000 mortgage completion

Trying to fuel the property bubble or desperate for new business with the new CB rules? I got my approval from these about a month ago, and it was a 1% stamp duty cash back offer.

Barely Hedged

mel123 wrote: »

I got an email today from my local Bank of Ireland:

We are now paying 2% cash back on full mortgage amount e.g. 4,000 cash back on a 200,000 mortgage completion

Trying to fuel the property bubble or desperate for new business with the new CB rules? I got my approval from these about a month ago, and it was a 1% stamp duty cash back offer.

But youre paying a higher rate. Give with one hand, take with the other. I dont see how theyre "Trying to fuel the property bubble", if indeed one exists?

In all probability, you'll be worse off going with BOI in the long run

seamus

Yep, looks like BOI are stepping up their offers to get people in. They wouldn't necessarily be aiming to fuel a bubble, but it's in their own interests to keep lending strong and to have people buying property.

Planning on drawing down in the next month, so it looks like we'll get this offer, which is a nice little bonus.

El_Dangeroso

mel123 wrote: »

I got an email today from my local Bank of Ireland:

We are now paying 2% cash back on full mortgage amount e.g. 4,000 cash back on a 200,000 mortgage completion

Trying to fuel the property bubble or desperate for new business with the new CB rules? I got my approval from these about a month ago, and it was a 1% stamp duty cash back offer.

More like trying to distract from their horrendous variable rates.

BOI called me last week to ask why I didn't proceed with my mortgage application with them (I'm a lifetime BOI current account customer) and I just said it was the uncompetitive interest rates plain and simple, they said 'Well there's nothing we can do about that', so this must be their latest gimmick to try and hook people in.

Bob24

johnp001 wrote: »

Emigration is just part of the story in decline of our twentysomethings

Dan O'Brien has an interesting article today on the demographic changes mentioned earlier in this thead.
Short version:
50% birth rates
30% emigration
20% aging of the 20 something immigrants from the last decade

Pretty much in line with what was expected and confirming low birth rates as the main cause - thanks.

While some emigrants will come back, not all of them will - and birth rates will fall further. So I think fears of a shortage fulled by a return of emigrants is completely overblown.

Immigration is the only factor that could bring more pressure onto the market (if our economy keeps performing well enough and attracting no nationals), but in the short to medium term the pressure will mostly be on rentals.

johnp001

Bob24 wrote: »

Immigration is the only factor that could bring more pressure onto the market (if our economy keeps performing well enough and attracting no nationals), but in the short to medium term the pressure will mostly be on rentals.

Annual net migration has been strongly negative for the last 5 years so migration is currently removing demand from the property market rather than adding to it.

The_Conductor

tharmor wrote: »

Why not when i have no outstanding mortgage on the property abroad ? Just because i have a property abroad purchased on mortgage but prepaid entire mortgage currently shud not qualify me as a non first time buyer !!

Correct.
It qualifies you as a non-first-time-buyer.

It is part of the rules drawn up by Revenue- back in the 1980s/1990s- and this salient rule has not changed in almost 40 years.

If you have owned property (you don't have to even currently own it- just to have to have owned it at any previous point in time) anywhere at all- you are not a first time buyer.

The whole purpose of designating people as 'first-time-buyers' is to treat people who are presumed to not be in a position to purchase property- in a more favourable manner than any other group of potential purchasers.

Its viewed by the government as a worthwhile risk (setting an unusually low bar on ownership- for those who have not owned property previously). For everyone else- a more prudent lending policy is prescribed to the lending institutions- something that in retrospect should have happened a long long time ago..........

I understand that you feel aggrieved- but how about a young family who bought an apartment in the boom time- and are now trying to bring up a family in wholly unsuitable conditions- why do you feel that you are more deserving than any other category of potential borrower?

Having an abnormally low deposit requirement- is a privilege- not a right. It is a privilege afforded to a subset of borrowers- of which neither you, nor I, am part.

jmayo

johnp001 wrote: »

If you want scary read this piece about the NZ property market (lifted the link from propertypin discussion on NZ housing market) Auckland's housing riot
...

Not just Auckland.
Vancouver is mad as well.

P. Breathnach wrote: »

There is a shortage of habitable properties on the Donetsk market.

I usually like to know what country my property is in.

The_Conductor

jmayo wrote: »

I usually like to know what country my property is in.

An indication of whether its likely to be damaged by incoming artillery shells, is also helpful.......

jmayo

The_Conductor wrote: »

An indication of whether its likely to be damaged by incoming artillery shells, is also helpful.......

It would be one way of removing tenants.

Could actually improve that place the tenants left as a toilet.