Property Market 2015

on_my_oe

ElizKenny wrote: »

Id imagine that would be very easy too, but people lead very different lives and have different priorities and needs.

eg you might have one couple earning 50k renting a double room in a share in the suburbs for €5000 a year, or another couple living with parents with €0 rent. Or another renting a prime apartment in the city center €15000 a year. And those examples are living together. they might live separate too.
All have different priorities/needs and outgoings on rent. So all would be able to save different amounts.

It is about priorities and managing your expectations, but it's about balancing your finances too. Try renting two bedroom apartment, two cars (5 years old), no credit card or hire purchases. We saved more than our rent each month.

Lots of people made foolish decisions buying overpriced properties during the boom, but lots of people want to buy a 3 bedroom semi for 150k yet retain the lifestyle of a couple drinking champagne on a beer budget. On 70k a couple with no kids should be saving more than 6k pa towards their deposit.

I don't believe that a 20% deposit is the answer! but an income ratio is - 3.5x maximum.

The 20% deposit - if implemented - won't bring down property prices. It's a question of supply, and there isn't enough 3 bed semis in South Dublin for everyone.

ElizKenny

Thats very impressive, renting a 2 bed in Dublin, running 2 cars and a 5 year old on 50K a year.
thats net of about 38k a year. And the rent on a 2 bed apt in dublin must be about 15k a year now. And saving that much again.

I wish I was that disciplined. Id be rich now

The_Conductor

ElizKenny wrote: »

Thats very impressive, renting a 2 bed in Dublin, running 2 cars and a 5 year old on 50K a year.
thats net of about 38k a year. And the rent on a 2 bed apt in dublin must be about 15k a year now. And saving that much again.

I wish I was that disciplined. Id be rich now

We're on significantly more than that- but have creche fees for two little munchkins. We have one car- a 12 year old Volvo- and we certainly can't save anything. We are spending 15-20k net on creche fees though- so if you didn't have children- it probably is doable........ (though you wouldn't have a social life, holidays or anything else).

Mongfinder General

The_Conductor wrote: »

We're on significantly more than that- but have creche fees for two little munchkins. We have one car- a 12 year old Volvo- and we certainly can't save anything. We are spending 15-20k net on creche fees though- so if you didn't have children- it probably is doable........ (though you wouldn't have a social life, holidays or anything else).

Is there something to be said for a single income family?

on_my_oe

ElizKenny wrote: »

Thats very impressive, renting a 2 bed in Dublin, running 2 cars and a 5 year old on 50K a year.
thats net of about 38k a year. And the rent on a 2 bed apt in dublin must be about 15k a year now. And saving that much again.

I wish I was that disciplined. Id be rich now

Small error there; our two cars are five years old - we are child free.

Our rent started at €850, rising to €1,000. Our mortgage, LPT, insurances etc are less than that.

We went out to dinner once a week, had nights out, went to the cinema etc, we just didn't go out and spend €100 each on drink every Friday and Saturday night. We had weekends away in Europe etc, but no all inclusive sun holidays in Portugal for three years. We had a goal, head down bums up and got there.

gaius c

on_my_oe wrote: »

Small error there; our two cars are five years old - we are child free.

Our rent started at €850, rising to €1,000. Our mortgage, LPT, insurances etc are less than that.

We went out to dinner once a week, had nights out, went to the cinema etc, we just didn't go out and spend €100 each on drink every Friday and Saturday night. We had weekends away in Europe etc, but no all inclusive sun holidays in Portugal for three years. We had a goal, head down bums up and got there.

So both working, cheap rent of €1000 (try getting that now on a two bed apartment in Dublin) and no kids?
Saving isn't exactly an olympian feat with circumstances like that.

on_my_oe

That was our rent until New Years Eve, as in two weeks ago - not five years ago. Our goal was saving €1000 a month, but we usually did €1200. We eat well, we have no debt, and we balance the books. If a couple on 70k with no kids can only save 6k then they need to examine their spending.

After saving and rent we had €1200 a month to cover utilities, insurances, car costs including fuel and tolls, health costs, college fees (€5600 a year). For us it was easy as we knew what we were spending money on, but it should be easier for those on 70k

CBFi

Has anyone else found there are a lot more people at viewings these days? Used to be about 2-3 couples at a viewing and now there's more like 10 couples at each. Hard to even have a proper look at the place.

That said, there's also not as much to see at the moment - hopefully it will pick up soon. Currently bidding on a house that is going up in bids of 10k a time. More aggressive than we've encountered before too.

handlemaster

CBFi. .. good to hear from someone thats looking. What part of the country is it your looking ?

MayBea

CBFi wrote: »

Has anyone else found there are a lot more people at viewings these days? Used to be about 2-3 couples at a viewing and now there's more like 10 couples at each. Hard to even have a proper look at the place.

That said, there's also not as much to see at the moment - hopefully it will pick up soon. Currently bidding on a house that is going up in bids of 10k a time. More aggressive than we've encountered before too.

We, too, noticed a huge number of people at viewings. I appeared to be at least ten or twelve couples doing a viewing at the same time as us and I noticed a few cash buyers at each viewing (despite the rumours that they have now left the market). I also heard one person discussing the property with EA mentioning it is an investment buy.

MarkAnthony

It's always quiet in the run up to Xmas and busier after, do factor this in.

There will still be cash buyers, there will still be investors just less of them (hopefully).

handlemaster

MarkAnthony wrote: »

It's always quiet in the run up to Xmas and busier after, do factor this in.

There will still be cash buyers, there will still be investors just less of them (hopefully).

The exemple just given contradicts this.

handlemaster

I had a look at dublin 15 rentals online. Prices for rentals have gone up. From what i see although supply is limited three beds are now 1300 as apposed to 1200 last year . Two bed apts are well over 1000. Have people noticed changes in other area's

MrMorooka

Rents in Dublin are actually insane. I'm on 2300 a month net, and it is not possible to live alone in Dublin for that amount, you either need to live with parents or roommatees. I feels to me ike you would want to be on at least 46k a year to afford to live alone in Dublin- next time I move job I will be insisting on at least that amount at the very least in the negotiations.

MarkAnthony

handlemaster wrote: »

The exemple just given contradicts this.

I made two points, one backed up by the person posting, are you talking about cash/buyers investors? Hardly a comparative sample and as indicated CGT pushing investors was maybe post hoc ergo propter hoc anyway.

MarkAnthony

MrMorooka wrote: »

Rents in Dublin are actually insane. I'm on 2300 a month net, and it is not possible to live alone in Dublin for that amount, you either need to live with parents or roommatees. I feels to me ike you would want to be on at least 46k a year to afford to live alone in Dublin- next time I move job I will be insisting on at least that amount at the very least in the negotiations.

I agree they're high but 46K isn't massively above the industrial average and as such should not command a city centre address. A couple can easily afford a penthouse suite apartment off Baggot Street. I'd argue there's plenty of room for things to go higher.

You should be able to find something within LUAS distance to CC for well under €1000 a month. I saw an apartment in the Tramyards there in Inchicore recently for €800 per month.

BenIrishHome

MrDerp wrote: »

For me there's a combination of factors at play here:
1) There's been a massive growth in what we now consider to be middle-income earners in this country. Back in the day a teacher, public sector worker, person in the bank had a job with some prestige and buying power. Now people with those jobs (particularly early in their careers when they'd be FTBs) are way down the income table, competing with ICT/Pharma grads that can be north of 50K four years after graduating. The mean income in this country, or industrial average or whatever, is relatively meaningless in terms of Dublin salaries.

2) There's not just a lack of supply of what we call 'family homes', there's a realisation that we're not building any more in Dublin to any great degree. Short of extending Tallaght, Blanch and Swords even further into the green belt, there just won't be large swathes of new estates for the new middle class to buy. Further to that, most people don't make a first choice outside the m50. That's why the most desirable parts of Dublin recovered first, followed by the other/outer suburbs and satellite towns, and now I know people buying new builds in Co. Meath.

We need to build smarter higher density in Dublin. That means well-serviced apartments which you can raise a family in: with on-site playgrounds, facilities, garage blocks/basement storage cages and ample parking. I agree we need more 'starter' homes, but starter shouldn't mean shoebox apartments and 2 bed 'townhouses'. It should be a sacrifice of a garden, not space and storage. Making livable high-density would provide an option for those who don't want to live 30-50km from the city centre. It has to have good facilities and infrastructure though.

All of the above is why we moved back to Cork last year, where we bought all the house we could ever need, close to the city centre and amentities, and had no significant reduction in income moving down. We were shopping around the market in Dublin over 2011/2012/2013, saw the bottom, saw what we could afford at the bottom, and that was that. Once prices ticked up, we didn't want to play anymore

MrDerp makes some great points. There is still a huge lack of supply and those sites being discussed are 2-3 years away at best. Swords, the northside gree belt and Meath are the only areas with a bulk of possible new completions before that. Big sites like Cherrywood will be 5-6 years away at the earliest. South Dublin and North Wicklow is really stuck and will see significant price rises.

That said, on the buyer demand side I'm not sure the €50k pharma or ITC grad if enough of the market to make a dent. It will have localised effects around key centres (Dublin 2/4 for Google / Facebook crowd). The rest of the generation are struggling to make more than half that and combined with sky high rents they have little chance of saving anything.

We did the same as you last year. Bought in Arklow and for €260,000 got a 5 bed house in nicest area within walking distance to town and stones throw of N11. Compared to where we were living in South Dublin where we could have barely afforded a tiny 2 bed townhouse. This is a family home that will accommodate us for years to come AND with the M11 extension completing soon we are easily commutable to Dublin now.

Now is the time to make that move if you are going to - sell in Dublin and move back to the country before those prices catch up.

mr_seer

CBFi wrote: »

Has anyone else found there are a lot more people at viewings these days? Used to be about 2-3 couples at a viewing and now there's more like 10 couples at each. Hard to even have a proper look at the place.

That said, there's also not as much to see at the moment - hopefully it will pick up soon. Currently bidding on a house that is going up in bids of 10k a time. More aggressive than we've encountered before too.

Not my experience at all. I have been looking in South Dublin and went to a few viewings at the weekend. At one viewing there was nobody at all and at the other there were 2 other couples. Both were nice houses in the €500k-€600k price range. Viewings in this range that I have attended have been completely dead since September.

CBFi

Looking in maynooth and leixlip. I'm comparing volume at viewings to sept/oct/nov.

It still hasn't picked up from Xmas-there's not much to see.

youcancallmeal

BenIrishHome wrote: »

MrDerp makes some great points. There is still a huge lack of supply and those sites being discussed are 2-3 years away at best. Swords, the northside gree belt and Meath are the only areas with a bulk of possible new completions before that. Big sites like Cherrywood will be 5-6 years away at the earliest. South Dublin and North Wicklow is really stuck and will see significant price rises.

That said, on the buyer demand side I'm not sure the €50k pharma or ITC grad if enough of the market to make a dent. It will have localised effects around key centres (Dublin 2/4 for Google / Facebook crowd). The rest of the generation are struggling to make more than half that and combined with sky high rents they have little chance of saving anything.

We did the same as you last year. Bought in Arklow and for €260,000 got a 5 bed house in nicest area within walking distance to town and stones throw of N11. Compared to where we were living in South Dublin where we could have barely afforded a tiny 2 bed townhouse. This is a family home that will accommodate us for years to come AND with the M11 extension completing soon we are easily commutable to Dublin now.

Now is the time to make that move if you are going to - sell in Dublin and move back to the country before those prices catch up.

If you work in the IFSC for example you are looking at huge commute every day, up to 3 hours or more if you are working 9 to 5. If it were me I would rather rent the rest of my life in south Dublin and spend an extra couple of hours with my family each day. Everyone's circumstances are different, sounds like living in Arklow works for you but for me it would be a terrible quality of life. Maybe if I worked in say Sandyford industrial estate I would consider buying in Arklow but I will always run the risk of having to change job and go back to the city center.

On a side note I know a few couples who bought during the boom in commuter towns and every one of them hated it after a couple of years. The commute was grinding them down. Most of them eventually got back to Dublin at great cost or went elsewhere altogether.

youcancallmeal

MrMorooka wrote: »

Rents in Dublin are actually insane. I'm on 2300 a month net, and it is not possible to live alone in Dublin for that amount, you either need to live with parents or roommatees. I feels to me ike you would want to be on at least 46k a year to afford to live alone in Dublin- next time I move job I will be insisting on at least that amount at the very least in the negotiations.

46k a year is only about 2700 after tax but yeah you are still looking at about half your wages to afford a nice one bed in the city center

handlemaster

The whole buying an hrs drive etc from dublin and then into traffic is nonscience . The lovely home that you will see very little of and the kids your to tired to play with all make it very un attractive . As someone said in a post better off to rent in Dublin or buy what you can afford inDublin

Kinet1c

mr_seer wrote: »

Not my experience at all. I have been looking in South Dublin and went to a few viewings at the weekend. At one viewing there was nobody at all and at the other there were 2 other couples. Both were nice houses in the €500k-€600k price range. Viewings in this range that I have attended have been completely dead since September.

Have they sold though? Any movement on price?

leinsterdude

anyone looking in the border county areas, I am in Kildare, nera Naas, they seem to be selling a bit better here, but still very low asking prices, you can get a 4 bed detached here for 210-220k, 45 mins to Dublin......has to be a better option than a tiny house for over 300k ??

tvc15

leinsterdude wrote: »

anyone looking in the border county areas, I am in Kildare, nera Naas, they seem to be selling a bit better here, but still very low asking prices, you can get a 4 bed detached here for 210-220k, 45 mins to Dublin......has to be a better option than a tiny house for over 300k ??

Where near Naas can you get a 4 bed detached for that?

crisco10

Currently looking for house (~400k) in South County Dublin, viewings are busy enough but I think that's more that there aren't many new properties for show at the moment. Hopefully some more stock will come on market as new year comes!

handlemaster

leinsterdude wrote: »

anyone looking in the border county areas, I am in Kildare, nera Naas, they seem to be selling a bit better here, but still very low asking prices, you can get a 4 bed detached here for 210-220k, 45 mins to Dublin......has to be a better option than a tiny house for over 300k ??

45 to dublin then how long after to get to Work ? Plus fuel costs.people just dont value their time like they should. Life is short dont spend 40 hrs a month in your car. Thats with 1 hr to Work. Also your kids wont love you more because you by the big house in the country if they dont see much of y ou.

Cona

Sorry for posting this question here, but I cant find any other definitive answer on this...Could anyone tell me what the latest is with the central bank's suggestion of 20% mortgages?

Did it happen yet or what are the plans/deadlines for this to be introduced?

Thanks

Sala

Cona wrote: »

Sorry for posting this question here, but I cant find any other definitive answer on this...Could anyone tell me what the latest is with the central bank's suggestion of 20% mortgages?

Did it happen yet or what are the plans/deadlines for this to be introduced?

Thanks

I don't think there is a latest. We are just waiting! I looked up their schedule to see if I could find anything but nothing related to mortgages was listed

Michael D Not Higgins

Cona wrote: »

Sorry for posting this question here, but I cant find any other definitive answer on this...Could anyone tell me what the latest is with the central bank's suggestion of 20% mortgages?

Did it happen yet or what are the plans/deadlines for this to be introduced?

Thanks

Their policy is to publish within 3 months of the close of a consultation period. The consultation period closed on 8th December and it's very likely nothing was done over Christmas so I'd wait til at least next month before we hear again.