Property Market 2015

starbaby2003

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Compound interest. A 200k mortgage at 4% interest would be 216k at the end of 2 years. Its one of the main reasons why in normal economies default is considered over 90 days. Those people who are 2+ years in arrears are very unlikely to ever get their head above water. In the meantime, the bank has to charge other people higher interest rates to cover the lost revenue coupled with the ridiculous costs of equity retrieval from all the court time required per case. Why do you think we have such high interest rates in comparison to other countries and why no other bank will touch us?

Then there is the worry that even with all the court cases, the number of people in arrears over 2 years is staying roughly static. Its not going away. What do you think will happen if we see another property crash while we have the highest arrears in the world without any real repercussion?

One of the things I find hilarious about the irish attitude to this is how they react to people who rent who are evicted versus those who rent from a bank. Like there is any real difference besides some equity in the property.

I think that the issue is that the banks here rarely loose .... In other countries if you default you walk away. Bad credit rating but that is all. In Ireland , you lose your home and you still have to pay the outstanding amount. Win win for the banks except in a very small number of cases. So why are they allowed to charge such high interest ( risk) rates should really be the question in my opinion.

gaius c

starbaby2003 wrote: »

I would presume people who are unable to come to an agreement with the bank to make payments on a property would also be unable to privately rent ?
I think the buy to let properties should be reprocessed. These are an investment gone bad and all investors know the risks ..... It's not like the government would guarantee unsecured debtors ... Oh wait

Great. Another "where's my NAMA?" strawman to deal with.

starbaby2003 wrote: »

If people bought a house as a home and not an investment then what do you have to gain by turfing them out ? The state will still and rightly so have to house them.

75% of households in arrears are in employment according to Brendan Burgess. They can afford accommodation, just not the accommodation they are in at present and the taxpayer should cease subsidising this.

If you want to know why variable rates are so high, it's because the folk who are paying their mortgages are subsidising those who are not.

Cuddlesworth

starbaby2003 wrote: »

I think that the issue is that the banks here rarely loose ....

There is a reason our banks are referred to as zombie banks. They did lose.

starbaby2003 wrote: »

In other countries if you default you walk away. Bad credit rating but that is all.

In other countries if you default the bank is able to quickly repossess the house and sell it to recoup the majority of what is owed, usually within a year of the first monthly arrears. In ireland it can take upwards of 3 years for the bank to sit in front of a judge when the accused has never once made any contact after jumping through so many hoops that they themselves spend thousands in man hours to just get to that point. And where judges grant stay after stay against the eviction order.

starbaby2003 wrote: »

In Ireland , you lose your home and you still have to pay the outstanding amount.

If you are unable to pay your debt, the one you signed on the dotted line for, you can declare bankruptcy and its wiped. The issue most have with that is that they are unable to complete the process as they have the means to pay, they simply don't.

starbaby2003 wrote: »

Win win for the banks except in a very small number of cases. So why are they allowed to charge such high interest ( risk) rates should really be the question in my opinion.

I don't think you understand how money lending works for financial institutions. Go read up on how banks operate, how they can loan such large sums of money for mortgages and how a situation such as the one here could effect those operations. Then come back and ask that question.

stevedublin

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

If you are unable to pay your debt, the one you signed on the dotted line for, you can declare bankruptcy and its wiped..

There have been new bankruptcy laws, but I doubt its that simple somehow otherwise those in negative equity/too much debt would be declaring bankruptcy in greater numbers

starbaby2003

I don't think you understand how money lending works for financial institutions. Go read up on how banks operate, how they can loan such large sums of money for mortgages and how a situation such as the one here could effect those operations. Then come back and ask that question.[/quote]

What an arrogant statement!!!! If the banks did not over lend. Fuel the Fire by increasingly overvaluing the properties on their books in order to borrow more they would not be in this situation. What part of banking exactly I should be reading up on ???! The part where they are enjoying the lowest interest rates ever and not passing them on? The 3.5% rate difference between deposits and loans ? The 2.1 billion profit declared by the central bank?

gosplan

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Compound interest. A 200k mortgage at 4% interest would be 216k at the end of 2 years. Its one of the main reasons why in normal economies default is considered over 90 days. Those people who are 2+ years in arrears are very unlikely to ever get their head above water. In the meantime, the bank has to charge other people higher interest rates to cover the lost revenue coupled with the ridiculous costs of equity retrieval from all the court time required per case. Why do you think we have such high interest rates in comparison to other countries and why no other bank will touch us?

Then there is the worry that even with all the court cases, the number of people in arrears over 2 years is staying roughly static. Its not going away. What do you think will happen if we see another property crash while we have the highest arrears in the world without any real repercussion?

One of the things I find hilarious about the irish attitude to this is how they react to people who rent who are evicted versus those who rent from a bank. Like there is any real difference besides some equity in the property.

Technically that's not compound interest ... Technically.

gaius c

starbaby2003 wrote: »

What an arrogant statement!!!! If the banks did not over lend. Fuel the Fire by increasingly overvaluing the properties on their books in order to borrow more they would not be in this situation. What part of banking exactly I should be reading up on ???! The part where they are enjoying the lowest interest rates ever and not passing them on? The 3.5% rate difference between deposits and loans ? The 2.1 billion profit declared by the central bank?

They are not passing on the low interest rates because those who are still paying their mortgages are also paying for those who are not paying. If the arrears drop, the STV's will also drop.

stevedublin wrote: »

There have been new bankruptcy laws, but I doubt its that simple somehow otherwise those in negative equity/too much debt would be declaring bankruptcy in greater numbers

They don't declare bankruptcy because they think there will be a "NAMA for the little people" or an Icelandic style mortgage writedown and are hanging on in the hope of getting this. I work with one of them. He's forever whining about his debt mountain while enjoying 4 foreign holidays a year and a social life that would make Terry Keane blush. He's on interest only with no intention of ever repaying the capital.

jmayo

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

...

11%(15,361) of BTL properties are 2+ years in arrears.
...

That has to be the biggest pi**take in the world.

starbaby2003 wrote: »

If people bought a house as a home and not an investment then what do you have to gain by turfing them out ?

What about the fact if they are never turfed out and not pay their debts they basically get an asset for free ?

starbaby2003 wrote: »

The state will still and rightly so have to house them. Why not give them time to get in to better circumstances.

I notice you are pedalling the ould shyte that the only alternative to not "owning" a house is state provided accommodation ?
Lots of people could afford some form of private rental accommodation.
They just chose (and are basically allowed to do so) to stay in the property that they probably could never really afford.

And lots of them have had 5/6 fooking years to sort things out.

gaius c wrote: »

Great. Another "where's my NAMA?" strawman to deal with.

75% of households in arrears are in employment according to Brendan Burgess. They can afford accommodation, just not the accommodation they are in at present and the taxpayer should cease subsidising this.

If you want to know why variable rates are so high, it's because the folk who are paying their mortgages are subsidising those who are not.

Very well put, but I get a feeling we are wasting our time with logic here.

starbaby2003 wrote: »

What an arrogant statement!!!! If the banks did not over lend. Fuel the Fire by increasingly overvaluing the properties on their books in order to borrow more they would not be in this situation. What part of banking exactly I should be reading up on ???! The part where they are enjoying the lowest interest rates ever and not passing them on? The 3.5% rate difference between deposits and loans ? The 2.1 billion profit declared by the central bank?

Shure isn't it all the fault of dem bankers luring poor gullible people into signing for hundreds of thousands and even millions in loans that they knew they couldn't really afford.

I really dispair about this country.
And we supposedly have a great education system. :rolleyes:

starbaby2003

jmayo wrote: »

That has to be the biggest pi**take in the world.



What about the fact if they are never turfed out and not pay their debts they basically get an asset for



Shure isn't it all the fault of dem bankers luring poor gullible people into signing for hundreds of thousands and even millions in loans that they knew they couldn't really afford.

I really dispair about this country.
And we supposedly have a great education system. :rolleyes:

No it's not . People got in way over their heads. Some out of greed for sure but an awful lot just wanted a family home. Through all my comments I have referred to people who bought a family home. Investors and speculators drove the price of property way up. The majority of the people who bought houses in Dublin are no longer in negative equity. It's mr and Mrs Murphy who bought a house in the commuter belt are the ones still suffering. For the record I don't own a property (yet) I just have a lot of empathy for people who are in very bad situations.
Wages cut/ job losses/ businesses folding. But whilst we are on it those poor bankers were repackaging junk bonds as aaa equity's so please don't give me the poor bloody bankers speech.

fret_wimp2

starbaby2003 wrote: »

I just have a lot of empathy for people who are in very bad situations.
Wages cut/ job losses/ businesses folding. But whilst we are on it those poor bankers were repackaging junk bonds as aaa equity's so please don't give me the poor bloody bankers speech.

Poor bankers aside, i have no time for these Poor people who cant afford thier homes anymore.

Back in 2007/2008 I could have bought a property at a crazy price.
I had some savings, a good job and would have been given a crazy mortgage.

I decided to be sensible as I believed i couldnt afford any house that cost 5-6 times my annual salary.

I was right, but im still penalised and stupidness/short-sightedness or whatever you want to call it is now rewarded.

I still dont have a property. there is a property shortage. These people are in still houses that cant(and never could) afford them. They are paying buger all. they made their choice, got in over their head but rather than live with the consequences ( move somewhere they can afford), they are still in their nice house & im still fighting the rental market paying every increasing prices.

I have no empathy for these people.

gosplan

That 11% is astounding all right.

Say you've a couple of BTL properties you got at the wrong time. You tried to make a business out of buying homes and renting/flipping them.

You figure that there's no way you're keeping the houses at the end of this process.

Why do you ever make another mortgage payment to the bank?

jmayo

starbaby2003 wrote: »

No it's not . People got in way over their heads. Some out of greed for sure but an awful lot just wanted a family home. Through all my comments I have referred to people who bought a family home. Investors and speculators drove the price of property way up. The majority of the people who bought houses in Dublin are no longer in negative equity. It's mr and Mrs Murphy who bought a house in the commuter belt are the ones still suffering. For the record I don't own a property (yet) I just have a lot of empathy for people who are in very bad situations.
Wages cut/ job losses/ businesses folding. But whilst we are on it those poor bankers were repackaging junk bonds as aaa equity's so please don't give me the poor bloody bankers speech.

Ok there are some who were unlucky, but a hell of a lot thought the building/retail bubble would last forever and their overinflated salaries would also last forever.
A lot who were unlucky have done their dammest to try and keep paying their mortgages.
Others have decided the 4x4 and holidays are more important.

A lot of those who ran in trouble were in the building or retail game.
They actually seemed to believe that their jobs should allow them the same lifestyle as a consultant doctor or high powered solicitor.

And don't get me started on the professionals who grew jealous of the plebs in the trades making millions and decided to start gambling on proeprty.
There are a fair few ex sportsmen and tv personalities in that bunch as well.

A lot of the people still sitting in properties and not paying a penny, are sitting in 2,000 sq foot plus properties with multiple ensuites, jacuzzi baths, etc.
They aren't just bog standard 3/4 bed semis.

Every so often the veil slips and you find the likes of the old couple in Dalkey, the Kildare stud farm and Gorse hill residents who appear to think that they are immune from paying their debts.

BTW where did I ever say I had pity for bankers ?

Just because I don't like debt welchers who think they should not be responsible for their debts and get to keep their assets does not mean I don't believe a hell of a lot of bankers should be behind bars.

Why do some who believe in debt forgiveness seem to think the above two are mutually exlusive beliefs.

gaius c

starbaby2003 wrote: »

No it's not . People got in way over their heads. Some out of greed for sure but an awful lot just wanted a family home. Through all my comments I have referred to people who bought a family home. Investors and speculators drove the price of property way up. The majority of the people who bought houses in Dublin are no longer in negative equity. It's mr and Mrs Murphy who bought a house in the commuter belt are the ones still suffering. For the record I don't own a property (yet) I just have a lot of empathy for people who are in very bad situations.
Wages cut/ job losses/ businesses folding. But whilst we are on it those poor bankers were repackaging junk bonds as aaa equity's so please don't give me the poor bloody bankers speech.

Nobody gave you the "poor bloody bankers speech". It's a figment of your overactive imagination.

audi12

fret_wimp2 wrote: »

Poor bankers aside, i have no time for these Poor people who cant afford thier homes anymore.

Back in 2007/2008 I could have bought a property at a crazy price.
I had some savings, a good job and would have been given a crazy mortgage.

I decided to be sensible as I believed i couldnt afford any house that cost 5-6 times my annual salary.

I was right, but im still penalised and stupidness/short-sightedness or whatever you want to call it is now rewarded.

I still dont have a property. there is a property shortage. These people are in still houses that cant(and never could) afford them. They are paying buger all. they made their choice, got in over their head but rather than live with the consequences ( move somewhere they can afford), they are still in their nice house & im still fighting the rental market paying every increasing prices.

I have no empathy for these people.

agreed a lot of these people are whingers blaming the bank for their stupid mistakes they should be kicked out asap so the property market can get back to normol

helimachoptor

Solicitor received contracts on friday.

He said he'll be in touch in a couple of days once he's reviewed..

Could we actually sign and not have a sale fall though :eek:

I expect to be getting keys before the end of august so anything earlier than that is a bonus

athtrasna

Guys a reminder that this isn't a politics thread nor is it an economy thread. This thread gets some leeway but please restrict conversations to the Property Market. Thanks

Mod

Note: All the recent Greece posts have merit in their content but as they don't belong in this thread we have opted to move them to a more appropriate forum, see the redirected thread Greece & The Property Market

slowjoe17

starbaby2003 wrote: »

No it's not . People got in way over their heads. Some out of greed for sure but an awful lot just wanted a family home. Through all my comments I have referred to people who bought a family home. Investors and speculators drove the price of property way up. The majority of the people who bought houses in Dublin are no longer in negative equity. It's mr and Mrs Murphy who bought a house in the commuter belt are the ones still suffering. For the record I don't own a property (yet) I just have a lot of empathy for people who are in very bad situations.
Wages cut/ job losses/ businesses folding. But whilst we are on it those poor bankers were repackaging junk bonds as aaa equity's so please don't give me the poor bloody bankers speech.

People got in over their heads. In that situation, they should be forced to swim to safety, and the house should be sold from under them.

Instead, they are occupying a house that I'd like to buy at fair prices.

Leaving them in their palaces screws everyone who showed prudence during the mad bull years and everyone too young to have bought then.

<MOD SNIP>

handlemaster

according to the Irish times / Myhome report today they are saying that half of the properties still been purchased are been purchased with Cash. werent there alot of people saying last year was going to be the end of the cash buyer !!! Looks like still lots of mattress money out there

sapper

http://media.myhome.ie/content/propertyreport/MyHome-Property-Report-Q2-2015.pdf

We believe that Irish house prices will probably slow from here. However, the outlook remains exceptionally uncertain. Central Bank and government policies are acting as a brake and an accelerator respectively on the Irish housing market. On one hand, the new Central Bank rules on mortgage lending are designed to ensure that the mistakes of the past are not repeated. On the other hand, government pressure to cut mortgage interest rates will help increase demand for mortgage credit, as it becomes more attractive to buy than to rent. In addition, the ECB’s quantitative easing (QE) programme will help sustain investor demand.

sapper

For me (someone who has sold their house and is now renting whilst looking to buy) - the headline from that report is the one that myhome.ie uses ie."House price inflation still likely to fall"

Yet what does the Irish Times use for a headline? "Dublin house prices rise 2.3% in three months".

sigh

barca_123

Surprised at that report! From looking around Dublin West anyway, asking prices are coming down for 95% of properties and verified by collapso.net.

Alter_Ego

sapper wrote: »

For me (someone who has sold their house and is now renting whilst looking to buy) - the headline from that report is the one that myhome.ie uses ie."House price inflation still likely to fall"

Yet what does the Irish Times use for a headline? "Dublin house prices rise 2.3% in three months".

sigh

It just sickening to see how the media are still trying to fuel the race towards another bubble.

In this case, because house prices actually fell in Dublin last month, IT conveniently decided to produce a figure over the last 3 months instead, so it still looks like a raise.

I was going to try to buy a property this year, but instead I am just going to rent, sit and wait.

My prediction is that by the end of the year prices in Dublin will fall by single digit.

farrerg

Got a call from an EA about a house I enquired about, never viewed, to let me know they had an offer of 275k, asking is 370k, seemed to be suggesting 300k would buy it. Never had that happen before, bonuses for H2 must not be looking great

stevedublin

farrerg wrote: »

bonuses for H2 must not be looking great

bonuses for H2 won't be coming in until the end of the year/beginning of 2016

Rowley Birkin QC

farrerg wrote: »

Got a call from an EA about a house I enquired about, never viewed, to let me know they had an offer of 275k, asking is 370k, seemed to be suggesting 300k would buy it. Never had that happen before, bonuses for H2 must not be looking great

What area is that in if you don't mind me asking?

farrerg

stevedublin wrote: »

bonuses for H2 won't be coming in until the end of the year/beginning of 2016

I know

farrerg

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

What area is that in if you don't mind me asking?

West Dublin, it's a fixer upper so there's probably a limited amount of people willing to take on the amount of work involved, and none at close to the asking price apparently

handlemaster

farrerg wrote: »

West Dublin, it's a fixer upper so there's probably a limited amount of people willing to take on the amount of work involved, and none at close to the asking price apparently

interesting EA dont like to return calls or emails usually must be getting quiet or this house is a lemon

stevedublin

farrerg wrote: »

I know

so how would H2 bonuses affect current house prices?

stevedublin

handlemaster wrote: »

interesting EA dont like to return calls or emails usually must be getting quiet or this house is a lemon

or the story is completely made up.