Property Market 2015

Brasso

Roger McAllen wrote: »

Daletree Place - What the absolute f**k !!? I can't post links but go to street view of this estate on google maps, there is a car on the right in someones drive covered in..........wtf .. red paint??

Plenty of vans, trailers, caravans, and a horsebox too for good measure.

Woah, just looked at that, seems the rear windscreen is smashed too. Some kind of attack on someone's car?

handlemaster

http://m.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/rents-rising-by-15pc-says-states-biggest-landlord-31441945.html

With rents going so high will this not make it more attractive for BTL purchases and subsequently higher asking prices on property

gosplan

handlemaster wrote: »

http://m.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/rents-rising-by-15pc-says-states-biggest-landlord-31441945.html

With rents going so high will this not make it more attractive for BTL purchases and subsequently higher asking prices on property

Yes but the requirement for a cash deposit of 20% means it won't be returning any profit for about 5 years. That's before you even factor in the mortgage.

It would make sense if you were a cash buyer I guess.

handlemaster

gosplan wrote: »

Yes but the requirement for a cash deposit of 20% means it won't be returning any profit for about 5 years. That's before you even factor in the mortgage.

It would make sense if you were a cash buyer I guess.

Its 30% for BTL investors.

Villa05

handlemaster wrote:

With rents going so high will this not make it more attractive for BTL purchases and subsequently higher asking prices on property

I don't think so. The tax on rental income is too onerous, might suit reits but the whole market is a bit of a cluster f××× and it building towards another crash.

The_Conductor

Villa05 wrote: »

I don't think so. The tax on rental income is too onerous, might suit reits but the whole market is a bit of a cluster f××× and it building towards another crash.

I'd have to agree with Villa05.
Its become so onerous for BTL landlords- that a signficant cohort of them are electing to exit the market.
The unfavourable manner in which REITs are being allowed account for borrowed money fully as a cost- while private landlords, are not- is only one disincentive for landlords- the remarkable manner in which small scale landlords are now being a raft of new taxes on rental income- irrespective of whether, or not, they are making any money (and a sizeable number of them are not)- is simply the stick that is herding landlords towards the door.

There would appear to be a specific government policy to get small scale landlords out of business- and to encourage large scale REITs to purchase and let properties wholesale.

The ultimate beneficiary of all of this- and indeed of high rents such as we now have- is the Revenue Commissioners- not landlords, and certainly not tenants.

Until there is a level playing field from a taxation perspective- there is no reason for private landlords to remain in business.

Floodzie

The_Conductor wrote: »

Until there is a level playing field from a taxation perspective- there is no reason for private landlords to remain in business.

It's especially bad for people who don't want to even be private landlords! I know lots of people in negative equity who have either moved backed in with the parents, or bought a tiny new place, and who would love to be shot of the millstone of apartment ownership. Apologies for being off topic.

The_Conductor

Floodzie wrote: »

It's especially bad for people who don't want to even be private landlords! I know lots of people in negative equity who have either moved backed in with the parents, or bought a tiny new place, and who would love to be shot of the millstone of apartment ownership. Apologies for being off topic.

Or indeed people who have had to move away with work- or whatever- and have to pay rent elsewhere- who aren't allowed offset rental income against rental outgoings.......

MAJJ

I assume most BTL landlordsthat bought in the last year and got the CGT exemption may hang on? Aren't they tied for 7 years?

The_Conductor wrote: »

I'd have to agree with Villa05.
Its become so onerous for BTL landlords- that a signficant cohort of them are electing to exit the market.
The unfavourable manner in which REITs are being allowed account for borrowed money fully as a cost- while private landlords, are not- is only one disincentive for landlords- the remarkable manner in which small scale landlords are now being a raft of new taxes on rental income- irrespective of whether, or not, they are making any money (and a sizeable number of them are not)- is simply the stick that is herding landlords towards the door.

There would appear to be a specific government policy to get small scale landlords out of business- and to encourage large scale REITs to purchase and let properties wholesale.

The ultimate beneficiary of all of this- and indeed of high rents such as we now have- is the Revenue Commissioners- not landlords, and certainly not tenants.

Until there is a level playing field from a taxation perspective- there is no reason for private landlords to remain in business.

gaius c

MAJJ wrote: »

I assume most BTL landlordsthat bought in the last year and got the CGT exemption may hang on? Aren't they tied for 7 years?

It's advantageous for them to hang on for 7 years (assuming increase in value) but they can sell before if they want so they are not tied as such.

handlemaster

gaius c wrote: »

It's advantageous for them to hang on for 7 years (assuming increase in value) but they can sell before if they want so they are not tied as such.

the capital gains for the 7years is tax free but once the owner goes into the 8th year the capital gains would be tax 7/8th tax free the following year 6/8th etc etc

gaius c

handlemaster wrote: »

the capital gains for the 7years is tax free but once the owner goes into the 8th year the capital gains would be tax 7/8th tax free the following year 6/8th etc etc

Correct yes. My post was in relation to MAJJ's query that they might be "tied" for 7 years.

johnp001

Also, the exemption is only of value if the property bought in 2011-2014 is worth more at the end of 7 years. If the value doesn't increase there is no incentive to hold for the 7 years.
Particularly if prices are higher in 2018 when the first tranche of properties become eligible for sale then the input of sellers taking their profit at the start of the window could depress prices for those not able to sell until later so if prices show signs of decreasing it might make sense for those who bought to avail of CGT to sell up and cut their losses or pay CGT on their profits rather than waiting to sell during the increased supply in 2018-2021 that will be the consequence of the 7 year window.

Floodzie

Some interesting graphs, which I stole from a thread on another site :-)

http://imgur.com/etwCsDK
http://imgur.com/RvoHItH
http://imgur.com/vW1KHpg
http://imgur.com/HfV7F3a
http://imgur.com/2oLrvwa

gaius c

Floodzie wrote: »

Some interesting graphs, which I stole from a thread on another site :-)

http://imgur.com/HfV7F3a

That one certainly provides fuel to the theory that 2012 prices in Ireland were actually "right prices" relatively to the long term average and that there was no over-correction as the bulls like to make out.

handlemaster

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/sorrento-house-dublin-s-priciest-home-sells-for-10-5m-1.2314934

Home sell for 10.5 million in dublin ....thoses advocating à collapse might choke reading this

DublinDilbert

handlemaster wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/sorrento-house-dublin-s-priciest-home-sells-for-10-5m-1.2314934

Home sell for 10.5 million in dublin ....thoses advocating à collapse might choke reading this

Yea that's just the head line. But if you read the article, the refurbish cost alone was €13 Million. (Coleman extensively modernised and extended it, pouring an estimated €13 million into a painstaking refurbishment). The asking at the peak of the bubble was €30M, so it sold for roughly 1/3 of that price.

Alter_Ego

handlemaster wrote: »

Home sell for 10.5 million in dublin ....thoses advocating à collapse might choke reading this

And why exactly those advocating a collapse might choke? It sold for 1/3 of the boom asking price and it's not exactly your usual 3 bed semi, is it?

handlemaster

handlemaster wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/sorrento-house-dublin-s-priciest-home-sells-for-10-5m-1.2314934

Home sell for 10.5 million in dublin ....thoses advocating à collapse might choke reading this

Just need another couple of thousand American millionaires wanting property in Ireland and we're away!

Floodzie

All that money for a terraced house... :-)

gaius c

Alter_Ego wrote: »

And why exactly those advocating a collapse might choke? It sold for 1/3 of the boom asking price and it's not exactly your usual 3 bed semi, is it?

It's a bog standard house really. 65% drop on original asking price. Market is in crisis if you ask me.

tinkerbell

Floodzie wrote: »

All that money for a terraced house... :-)

It's end of terrace with 2 acres and over 7,000 sq foot. It's not just a typical terraced house LOL.

seamus

Are you ****ting me? An end-of-terrace in Dalkey, 700sq.m., with 120-degree views over Dublin Bay goes for 10% under asking and that's a sign that things are on the up?

johnp001

seamus wrote: »

Are you ****ting me? An end-of-terrace in Dalkey, 700sq.m., with 120-degree views over Dublin Bay goes for 10% under asking and that's a sign that things are on the up?

Specifically an end of terrace in Dalkey sells for 10% under asking price AFTER the asking price has already dropped 60% (30m->12m)

gosplan

[Snip]

They can transfer ownership to me.

I have little money, no investments and a straightforward job which carries very little risk of legal difficulties.

A few years should be good enough to break said curse and then I promise to transfer it back.

handlemaster

johnp001 wrote: »

Specifically an end of terrace in Dalkey sells for 10% under asking price AFTER the asking price has already dropped 60% (30m->12m)

Comparing prices continually to the boom prices makes no sence

gaius c

handlemaster wrote: »

Comparing prices continually to the boom prices makes no sence

Still €1.5 million under the most recent asking price. Definitely a sign of the way the market is going. :P

Floodzie

tinkerbell wrote: »

It's end of terrace with 2 acres and over 7,000 sq foot. It's not just a typical terraced house LOL.

'twas a joke. Still a lot of money though.

handlemaster

gaius c wrote: »

Still €1.5 million under the most recent asking price. Definitely a sign of the way the market is going. :P

We all dream... Perhaps that was the real asking price

gosplan

handlemaster wrote: »

Comparing prices continually to the boom prices makes no sence

It's really beginning to bug me.

Today the mortgage stats for Q2 were released and most of the info is 'down 87% from 2006' type stuff.

It makes about as much sense as Lance Armstrong doing the Tour now and saying 'oh look, I've slowed down a lot'.