I need a double!

cormie

My business is going well, but I've a bit too much to cope with by myself. I need somebody to share the work load but I don't know should I be looking for an employee, a partner, or just stick with hiring on a contractor basis until I find somebody who I feel comfortable with to help and then progress the relationship to employee/partner.

The business itself is www.VanTasks.ie, a furniture removal/man with a van business established in 2006. My main role for the last 2/3 years has been all the admin work and I've been contracting out the labour side. One of my main guys has left the country and while looking for a replacement, I'd like to find somebody who can do more than just driving the van and moving furniture. I'd like somebody who can assist in taking bookings (phone and email), doing some accounting work and general managing of the business.

I'd like somebody who can essentially be my right hand man with a view to perhaps one day taking over the complete running of the business while I keep a share in it. I was even considering selling up, but as I've been growing the business with unconventional methods, mainly reputation and branding based, I don't feel the books of previous years reflect the potential and growth opportunities the business has if managed correctly.

I've been trying to put my health and well being at the forefront and could have done so many more sales throughout the year, but just didn't want the added stress. One thing I've been afraid of in the past is delegating responsibility. This is definitely something I'm prepared to do now. I've another few things I'm working on at the moment to build the business brand and allow a very steady flow of sales to be achieved. Once I've finalised these things, in another few weeks actually, I'd be happy to take a snap shot of what I've built the business to and then hand over the running to somebody else.

So I'm just looking for any advice at all on what way I should approach this. I came up with the following before with some help from boards.ie. I think I just need to stick it up on a few job websites and start interviewing? Any thoughts or advice would be very much appreciated!

VanTasks.ie is currently looking to fill the position of a furniture removal porter contractor with a view to a full time position and promotion to hold a profit share in this young, expanding and highly reputable business. The successful candidate should meet all the below requirements:

- Full, clean category B driver's license (additional categories advantageous) with a minimum of 7 years driving experience.
- Valid Passport and the requirements to travel throughout the EU.
- Great command of English, written, oral and comprehension.
- Ability to work with and manipulate large and heavy stock in a safe manner.
- Demonstrable experience driving a van or other large commercial vehicles.
- Demonstrable experience with computers, particularly a competency in Microsoft Office
- Ability to be flexible with working hours and days in Ireland and throughout Europe.
- Ability to travel to and from Dun Laoghaire with ease (own transport advantageous)

Upon successful application and due to the demanding physical requirements of the position, we may require you to undergo a medical exam in order to ensure you are physically capable to safely carry out your duties, this is in the interest of safety and will not be used in any other context.

antoinolachtnai

Your requirement is for a business manager, I think, but your ad is for a guy who can do hands-on driving and delivery. It is possible you will find all the qualities in one person, but I don't think so.

If I were you I would focus on getting a person to do business, admin and sales. It would possibly be a person with a background in managing operations.

I would get your subcontractors to up their game in terms of providing a quality service so that less on-site supervision/help would be required.

Your role would become marketing (as opposed to sales), training and quality management.

There would be a lot to do here. You would need to work hard to build the brand in order to generate sufficient cashflow to make a profit and pay your new hire.

To reduce risk, I would make this new person's package contingent on developing a certain level of sales.

I would not talk about a profit share or a shareholding at this point if I were you.

Atomico

I think if you want 'another you', then you'd have to pay that person a wage to match the workload and the amount of effort you'd need to see to ascertain whether they could become your right-hand man. That might not be possible if the cash flow or level of sales isn't there yet. So it's a catch-22 possibly.

Also I think you have to be clearer on who you are after and what you want them to do. You're unlikely to get someone who will drive a van and move furniture, and also then look at accounts and help manage the overall running of the business? It will be one or the other - a driver, or a manager of some description.

A good option could be to hire someone more junior as an Operations Manager - maybe someone with experience in a similar role in another industry. That way you could hire them at a lower wage and still bring them along and have them take on more responsibility as time goes on.

pedronomix

I am sorry to say, you come across as a total fruit! You are consumed with detail, see van cameras thread, also street parking, and your last recruitment spec! In my opinion, you have a very serious issue with lots of ability to do, and none to manage!
Also how come you have all these vans, yet you claim to sub-out the donkeywork ?
The other reality you need to deal with is that your business will never be worth more than nett asset value... any bloke and his mate with a van can undercut you.
Now perhaps you can get the work in the door, if that is true, you may have a business model as the Uber of Movers, or the Hailo of hackers. Focus on what you do well and do it well. Let the brawn do the shifting!

cormie

Folks, thanks a lot for the replies on this.

I'm glad to see you all kind of agree that I need to concentrate more on what I'm good at, I feel the exact same, I've created a monster and I'm just about managing it, but I'm sacrificing my health and well being which I've grown to realise are far more important than what I've been putting as my priority for the last 8 years.

First and foremost, I need a driver and mover. I can keep going as I have been but either way I need someone to rely on to do the actual labour. My hope is that I can find somebody who I can delegate more work to eventually, and hopefully somebody with a business sense or a sense of responsibility and the drive to push themselves to increase their own income. Whether I can find that is another question.

I was even thinking, once I've gotten the business to the stage I mentioned in the op, I could approach other moving companies doing much the same thing and offer them to take over the running of VanTasks as another division of their existing business and then I just keep a share.

So for now, I might just pop that ad up and get going with a few interviews etc, bearing in mind I've never done this before, would there be any suggestions where I should post it?

scwazrh

Have you considered franchising the business ?

cormie

Thanks for the reply. I have thought about that alright, but I wouldn't really have a clue where to start and how it would work in terms of getting each franchisee enough work to make it worth their while. I guess it would mean either seriously upping my sales work throughout the country, or would it be a case of them getting their own sales using the brand and I just screen them and make sure they are set up to my standards etc?

antoinolachtnai

cormie wrote: »

I was even thinking, once I've gotten the business to the stage I mentioned in the op, I could approach other moving companies doing much the same thing and offer them to take over the running of VanTasks as another division of their existing business and then I just keep a share.

No, this just won't work. Being a minority shareholder in a business that is a division of a larger company is not something that will work well, particularly if you are not managing the business.

I think you have a very strong business concept but you need to think about how to scale it. Taking on drivers as employees one-by-one is probably not the answer.

Cianos

Put up a job looking for a driver/mover. Don't disclose it in the ad but choose someone who fits the bill for what you're looking for long term. Commit to giving them a decent salary. Gradually assign them more and more responsibilities, until they've grown in to the worker you're looking for.

cormie

Cianos wrote: »

Put up a job looking for a driver/mover. Don't disclose it in the ad but choose someone who fits the bill for what you're looking for long term. Commit to giving them a decent salary. Gradually assign them more and more responsibilities, until they've grown in to the worker you're looking for.

I'm thinking this might be the best approach to take for now too. If I can find somebody reliable, with a decent head on them and somebody who wants to make a good opportunity for themselves and are in the right position, I may be able to train them in to take care of extra bits and pieces and at least having that extra person there will help me to then be in a position to make further progress with this plan.

Could anyone recommend where I should be putting the job notice and would anyone have any change suggestions or should I just post it as is?

pedronomix

I was tough on you in an earlier post and as you seemed to take it in a positive way, I decided to give your conundrum a bit more thought. You have a very decent brand and website ( thought the lack of a physical address is a negative!!)

You are looking for experienced drivers who are self starters and have a bit of get up and go. There are a ton of guys out there who meet your criteria... they are the poor misfortunes who work all the hours God sends for a pittance...ie the courier subbies to An Post Courier, JMC Vantrans, Fastway etc. I am sure you can offer them a much better income/deal with the future prospect of becoming the owner/franchisee of their own VanTasks operation.

cormie

Hi, thanks again for your feedback and the compliments on the brand and website. Actually, there's a new website going to be launched almost any day now, along with me having redesigned the logo and I'll be updating the sign writing on each van to match the design here: http://easycaptures.com/fs/uploaded/706/6020612208.jpg. Decisions like this may not have been possible had I a partner, but it's something I wanted to do even if it's not the best business sense right now.

With regards to the job listing, any recommendations where may be a good place to post it? I've never posted a job offer before so any pointers or tips would be appreciated. Also, I was thinking if I get inundated with applicants, would there be a way to sieve out those who are possibly more suited to the role by putting a simple request like "Please send C.V. in PDF format". This would at least give me an indication an applicant has computer knowledge and isn't just bulk applying to jobs without reading the description.

Atomico

If you put a general job listing out on a general jobs site, you will probably just get a bunch of guys looking to become a van driver, or who are already drivers just looking for a better job / better conditions or more pay.

You would probably be better off being more specific about exactly the kind of employee you are looking for - someone who will be incentivised to help you grow the business. That way you will attract more of the right kind of people, i.e. those who are interested in this kind of arrangement and the possibilities.

I am not sure where van drivers and the courier subbies pedronomix mentions hang out online, but if you could start a thread somewhere looking for people to express their interest then it might be a better approach.

cormie

Thanks for that. Well maybe if I add a few more points to the job description to make it sound less like a driver/mover job and more of a mix between that and admin, it may wean out some unsuitable candidates? The moving and driving is straight forward enough, I'd be looking for somebody fit, strong, with good spacial awareness and care. As I charge my customers based on time, the fitness and strength is a major requirement. Imagine making 60 trips running up and down to a 6th floor apartment with no lift, carrying 30kg boxes, drenched in sweat or carrying an upright piano up a flight of stairs or a heavy, expensive glass cabinet down a winding stairs. Now there's a lot of people out there who wouldn't be right for this alone and then at the same time I'm looking for somebody who I can build enough trust with that they can possibly take over some of the running of the business at a later date

Of course, I can't be too fussy in the description or it may fall under discrimination but I can be fussy in my choosing. I think the best thing is to just put it out there and see what kind of response I get so I'll probably just post it on some job websites to start with?

Atomico

cormie wrote: »

Thanks for that. Well maybe if I add a few more points to the job description to make it sound less like a driver/mover job and more of a mix between that and admin, it may wean out some unsuitable candidates? The moving and driving is straight forward enough, I'd be looking for somebody fit, strong, with good spacial awareness and care. As I charge my customers based on time, the fitness and strength is a major requirement. Imagine making 60 trips running up and down to a 6th floor apartment with no lift, carrying 30kg boxes, drenched in sweat or carrying an upright piano up a flight of stairs or a heavy, expensive glass cabinet down a winding stairs. Now there's a lot of people out there who wouldn't be right for this alone and then at the same time I'm looking for somebody who I can build enough trust with that they can possibly take over some of the running of the business at a later date

Of course, I can't be too fussy in the description or it may fall under discrimination but I can be fussy in my choosing. I think the best thing is to just put it out there and see what kind of response I get so I'll probably just post it on some job websites to start with?

Posting on a job site is fine, but as for the interview process and medical exam part, that might be something you would want to consult with a HR professional on - or maybe have them help you manage the process. It's an area you can't be too careful about, especially as a sole trader.

You could easily ask the wrong kind of question in an interview (even if it may sound perfectly fine to ask), and then I imagine a medical exam comes with its own set of regulations and data protection requirements.

Maybe look to talk to someone who has done this before (fellow company owners in the same game), and also look to contact some HR outsourcing companies / agencies to sound things out?

It's the kind of thing that's best done right and to take your time over, IMO.

cormie

Thanks again for your input, to be honest, I can't see myself putting anyone through a medical exam, I just want to again wean out anyone applying who may not be suitable for the job and think they are just applying for a "driving" job. There's a huge difference here. I'd have a pretty good idea about their suitability for the physical before hands are even shook to say hello.

Moomat

cormie wrote: »

Thanks again for your input, to be honest, I can't see myself putting anyone through a medical exam, I just want to again wean out anyone applying who may not be suitable for the job and think they are just applying for a "driving" job. There's a huge difference here.

Any job listing that involves driving a van, regardless of how little time will be spent in it, will attract the "I do A to B but I don't do C" type of candidate. You'll have to wean the majority of these out at interview CV stage. I would leave a job listing as a last resort, work your network first for somebody who has potential. They may not meet all your requirements but a willingness to learn will have that sorted.
Don't rule somebody out because they can't convert a CV to PDF. These skills can be learned, you need somebody with with very specific natural ability, integrity and an ability to grow and learn with your business.

cormie

I'd rather wean them out pre interview stage if possible I don't have a clue how the job scene is at the moment and haven't a clue how many applications I'll get, but I'll probably only select a tiny % to interview, just not to be wasting my time or theirs.

The thing about converting CV to pdf is that it's pretty easy to learn with a quick google, but then again I don't want to be missing out one anyone who might be the best just over that

When you say "work my network" what would you suggest?

Moomat

cormie wrote: »

I'd rather wean them out pre interview stage if possible

When you say "work my network" what would you suggest?

I've changed my post, I meant to say pre-interview/CV stage. I got the impression that the medical test and PDF requirements were little tests you had before even screening of CVs had started.

By your network I mean anybody who you know, who has even a small understanding of your business and may be able to recommend a potential candidate. For example, lets say you regularly move pianos for a repair shop, they will probably be dealing with other transport operators/couriers and may be able to give a recommendation. With the time of year business drops off for many people in the transport industry and it could be an excellent time to hire.

Joseph

(Disclaimer: haven't read your full post or any of the replies)

I saw one of your social media posts shared today on my feed which is impressive, well done.

cormie

Cool In fairness though, it's the most popular post I've ever made since joining facebook in 2009 so it's not like I'm making regular popular posts, a removal company is not a very easy company to get people to "like", it's not like a hip cafe, pub, restaurant, club, brand, etc that people want their friends to know they like or that will likely be posting a lot of interesting content. Credit goes to the motor forum here too where I found the info out in the NCT Backlog thread

smcgiff

An interesting dilemma and a great opportunity for someone out there.

Re the medical cert all you need to do is ask the successful person to attend either a doctor you know (preferable) or their own and ask them to get a certificate from the doctor to say you are fit to carry out the particular job.

The employee then hands you the doctors cert. No black magic involved.

I'd like to reiterate what others have said. You're initially looking for two different people. The person you bring in to be a porter is not likely to have business management skills. But, you can teach them (assuming you have them yourself!). This will take time. If you can afford it you could bring in a junior manager as well and train them up.

I normally loathe recruitment agencies, but yours might be a rather unique case that might benefit from them.

You could also go to Solas (previously known as FÁS) and give them your details. That is a free service, but you may get inundated with applications, but nothing you could not manage in a couple of hours.

Finally you could approach www.Jobs.ie or www.irishjobs.ie and put up an ad online.

Keep us updated.

antoinolachtnai

Reflecting on this, I just wouldn't hire a person to work in the office at all the way i would recruit a porter. It's just a completely different thing. Customer service might be a common trait, but everything else is different. Physical fitness is critical to the porterage side of things, but it is not really relevant to the office job. Focus, doing one thing at a time is critical to the porterage, but the office job is a big multitasking mess. The training is completely different.

If you are looking for a business partner to drive things forward, or someone to eventually buy the company off you, I think you are far more likely to find them on the office side.

cormie

Hi folks, I've put this up on my personal facebook page: https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t31.0-8/s2048x2048/11882384_10154139910131521_4160313963028070002_o.jpg

Is it all above boards based on the above worries such as discrimination etc would anyone know?

pedronomix

Cormie... you just need a Mammy, you dont take advice, a Mammy will just tells you what to do... or else..........

cormie

Thanks for the reply, I'm not sure what you mean by that, I appreciate all the advice given here. I know the other thread I posted recently is going another direction to looking for a driver/porter, but based on the advice given above in this thread, I'm looking for what's been advised above to lessen the load on my own shoulders. You've advised me to seek out ex an post/fastway type drivers in this thread and the other and this is a step to that, I just need to make sure it's worded legally and correctly, unless there's a better way to get the attention of that target?

pedronomix

Cormie, they already have licences, their own vans and insurance etc etc but they would never respond to this. Wake up dude, deal with the issues not the symptoms. If ya cant do it yourself, I am in Dalkey, retired, have my own baseball bat and will give you a dig out fixing yer hed!! (metaphorically!)

sysprogrammer

Cormie,
take some time to meet Pedro, he has been through it all for decades.
I did , and my business has benefitted immensely.

I do not believe a current courier, with Van and insurance who is 'Ready to Work' , would respond to your advert.
And I also believe you would offer a much better pay scale/package/working environment for them. It is almost like you are searching for each other in the fog.

and Congratulations on doing so well as to have this problem.

Sysprog

cormie

Thanks a lot for the replies! Pedro, I'll be in touch via PM soon. Going to be on the road pretty intensely for the next few weeks but would love the opportunity to talk face to face!

pedroeibar1

Cormie,
Your meeting with Pedronomix will work only if you listen. From your posts on a few threads I have a strong impression that you are not good at that.

What is the point of posting an advert first and then asking about it here? If you really want to know, your advert is too verbose (read waffle). What makes you think that jobseekers will go to your transport site looking for a job? (And if they do you are in the wrong business!)
You’re looking for a driver ffs, not a brain surgeon.
Have a safe trip.

cormie

Thanks for the feedback, good to get the criticism here I'll try my best to keep me ears open for sure.

I didn't post the advert on my site or anywhere related to my business, just threw it up on my personal facebook page to see if I could get anyone on recommendation through friends and just wanted to check it here before posting it anywhere official, or listing the same content in the ad on a job website