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Alan Pardew To Join Crystal Palace
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pmasterson95 wrote: »And of course you never ignore facts that dont support your own claims.
Its ok bbz.
What facts have I ignored?0 -
Chuffed to learn Villa are better than Chelsea after today's result!!! I've been saying it all alongpmasterson95 wrote: »Its clear to see Pardew is a terrible manager. You can clearly see how removing him has improved Newcastle and he has destroyed Palace.....oh hang on Sunderland beat Newcastle before Pardew trounced them a week later
#pardew out0 -
Pardew is a genius.
sackPardew.com?
More like backpardew.com!0 -
With Pardew he towed the party line continuously. Arguably had a better team at his disposal than Hughton but he fizzled out and instead of saying, "hey, I got it wrong and I need to address this situation" he decided to bleat out shíte. Blamed all before him. The fans, the Europa League etc.
The Europa League was the reason why the team struggled in 2012/2013. Newcastle made it to the quarter-finals that season. Take a look at what happened to Everton this season - they were threatened with relegation, until they got knocked out of the Europe.
This season (2014/2015), Tottenham lost 3 league games that proceeded Europa League group stage fixtures 3 days prior (one of them against Newcastle).
Excact same thing last season (2013/2014), lost 3 games and drew 1 after group stage fixtures (They lost to Newcastle as well and got hammered at home by Liverpool 0-5). Tottenham's league form really struggled when the knockout stages began in February.His position was untenable. He puts out the team. Not Ashley. If Pardew hadn't continued to tow the party line I would have had a bit of sympathy for him.
Losing most of your best players doesn't help matters, especially when your tight-fisted chairman refuses to spend his billions on replacing them.Results may have been shíte but if he turned out and said, "I have a reputation to keep. I can't work under these circumstances etc" perhaps I would have appreciated that he had a bit of bottle to question transfer activity among other things.
They were only shíte because he had a thin squad playing a demanding schedule, just like Everton this season.He didn't. He became unlikable and results were just a part of it. It's easy to say that he did a good job when you don't have to watch Newcastle week in and week out, reading quotes and trying to support a team that doesn't care, a manager that hasn't a clue what he was doing and an owner who doesn't give a shít about fans who pay to watch that crap.
I concede that the man lacks class and if Newcastle were pushing for the Champions League, I would want him out if I was a Newcastle fan because being near the top of the table would give him a bigger spotlight to embarrass the club with his antics, but when it comes to tactics and transfers, he's a good manager.You give about the fans. Why can't fans give out about a manager who brought us to the brink of relegation us, headbutted a player, pushed a lino and cursed at Pellegrini.
If he had a better chairman above him, that wasn't so tight-fisted with his fortune, he could have bought more players to handle the packed schedule in November/December, when the teams in Europe are playing every 3 days or so.It's not befitting of a manager. You can say he's a "man's man" or whatever shíte you say but he's not. He was an absolute coward at Newcastle. When it was going right, brilliant. But he never was one for accepting blame when things went horribly wrong.
I agree that he lacks some balls but with Ashley at the helm, being the manager of Newcastle is a dead-end job and it's not difficult to see why he would lose his passion for his job at the club.Aside from the 'sackpardew' crowd, Newcastle fans are no different than any other set of fans who want a manager gone. A small section of fans just went about it in a different way.
Yous are all using Pardew as a scapegoat when Ashley is the crux of the problem, but Newcastle fans seem to waiting for the day when the billionaire owner decides to invest his money in the club, which is not going to happen.
If Newcastle fans want to see some serious changes at the club, yous need to protest against Ashley's ownership and remove him because the perpetual cycle of managers being brought in from the managerial merry-go-round and used a scapegoats will continue until Ashley sells up or dies.0 -
Who did Pardew lose against his will, other than perhaps Ba and Cabaye?0
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Bad tactics and playing players out of position on a continuous basis was the reason why we struggled.OneEightSeven wrote: »The Europa League was the reason why the team struggled in 2012/2013.Newcastle made it to the quarter-finals that season.
Which was a pretty remarkable feat given our struggle.Losing most of your best players doesn't help matters, especially when your tight-fisted chairman refuses to spend his billions on replacing them.
"Most"??? We still had the same squad that season. We lost Cabaye and Ba, our two top performers. The rest of the squad that finished 5th still remained. And even they both only left in the last couple of years.They were only shíte because he had a thin squad playing a demanding schedule, just like Everton this season.
Again, we were playing terribly because players weren't being utilised in their proper positions and continually playing out of form players despite the whole world being able to see how awful they were.
We had a few injuries but we certainly had the back up there to be able to compete. As I say, dreadful tactics and players being played in stupid positions and nullifying any creativity was killing the team.but when it comes to tactics and transfers, he's a good manager.
Transfers? But you just said that we never replaced the players we lost due to a tight fisted owner.
The only player I can recall that Pardew was bragging about was Gabriel Obertan who, if we're being honest, is pretty dreadful.
As for tactics... With Crystal Palace he's gotten a lot of things right and it's hard to dispute that. With Newcastle? Not at all. He was pure muck.If he had a better chairman above him, that wasn't so tight-fisted with his fortune, he could have bought more players to handle the packed schedule in November/December, when the teams in Europe are playing every 3 days or so.
But I thought he was great at transfers?I agree that he lacks some balls but with Ashley at the helm, being the manager of Newcastle is a dead-end job and it's not difficult to see why he would lose his passion for his job at the club.
A dead end job? We're one of the biggest supported clubs in England. A team that is supported by passionate loons despite all the doom and gloom. A support base that still go to away games in droves and continually go to home games regardless of the shíte they're being served up.
If a manager loses his passion for the job there in front of people who have shown nothing but passion to a club floating in its own shít, then it speaks volumes about the manager himself and not the club.Yous are all using Pardew as a scapegoat when Ashley is the crux of the problem,
Well, at the end of the day Pardew was the one setting up the team, asking players to play in his shítty tactics and not Ashley.
There's no disputing that Ashley remains a big problem at the club but Pardew played his part.but Newcastle fans seem to waiting for the day when the billionaire owner decides to invest his money in the club, which is not going to happen.
We are? We're well aware Ashley won't spend. He'll spend enough to get by without making us relevant. We've known this for a while but thank you for shedding the light on things we clearly didn't already know. :rolleyes:If Newcastle fans want to see some serious changes at the club, yous need to protest against Ashley's ownership and remove him because the perpetual cycle of managers being brought in from the managerial merry-go-round and used a scapegoats will continue until Ashley sells up or dies.
There have been many protests. It hasn't worked. There will always be a large group who will voice their opinion of him whether it be inside the ground or not.
As fans you can't do anything about it unless you stop going. Obviously given that I'm sitting here in Ireland, it's easy for me to say we should protest by not going to games.
Giving up on going to football games especially in that part of England is hard given there's fúck all else to do at the weekend.0 -
backpardew.com0
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Bad tactics and playing players out of position on a continuous basis was the reason why we struggled.
No, a packed schedule and topping the injury list is the reason why the team struggled. I don't follow Newcastle religiously like I do Arsenal, but looking the the injury list below, it's not difficult to see why he had to play players out of position:Yohan Cabaye Injury Ankle/Foot Injury 2013 May 19th Rob Elliott Injury Arm/Elbow Injury 2013 May 17th Cheik Tiote Injury Hamstring Injury 2013 May 12th Steven Taylor Injury Illness 2013 May 11th Shola Ameobi Injury Knee Injury 2013 May 4th Massadio Haidara Injury Hamstring Injury 2013 April 30th Moussa Sissoko Injury Knee Injury 2013 April 30th Papiss Cisse Injury Rib Injury 2013 April 20th Cheik Tiote Injury Hamstring Injury 2013 April 14th Sylvain Marveaux Injury Groin/Pelvis Injury 2013 April 14th Tim Krul Injury Dislocated Shoulder 2013 April 14th Rob Elliott Injury Ankle/Foot Injury 2013 April 14th Mapou Yanga-Mbiwa Injury Knock 2013 April 11th Steven Taylor Injury Knee Injury 2013 April 10th Yohan Cabaye Injury Ankle/Foot Injury 2013 April 7th Davide Santon Injury Hamstring Injury 2013 April 7th James Perch Injury Hamstring Injury 2013 April 4th Danny Simpson Injury Ankle/Foot Injury 2013 April 4th Cheik Tiote Injury Hamstring Injury 2013 March 27th Davide Santon Injury Hip/Thigh Injury 2013 March 19th Mathieu Debuchy Injury Hamstring Injury 2013 March 17th Massadio Haidara Injury Knee Injury 2013 March 17th Yohan Cabaye Injury Groin/Pelvis Injury 2013 March 14th Shola Ameobi Injury Ankle/Foot Injury 2013 March 7th Hatem Ben Arfa Injury Hamstring Injury 2013 March 7th Papiss Cisse Injury Illness 2013 March 3rd Yohan Cabaye Injury Illness 2013 February 24th Fabricio Coloccini Injury Back Injury 2013 February 24th Steve Harper Injury Knee Injury 2013 February 22nd Tim Krul Injury Ankle/Foot Injury 2013 February 21st Yohan Cabaye Injury Knee Injury 2013 February 21st Cheik Tiote Injury Illness 2013 February 20th Sammy Ameobi Injury Hamstring Injury 2013 February 11th Yoan Gouffran Injury Calf/Shin Injury 2013 February 9th Sylvain Marveaux Injury Ankle/Foot Injury 2013 January 28th Gabriel Obertan Injury Knock 2013 January 25th Yohan Cabaye Injury Groin/Pelvis Injury 2013 January 19th James Perch Injury Knee Injury 2013 January 5th Fabricio Coloccini Injury Hamstring Injury 2013 January 2nd Papiss Cisse Injury Hip/Thigh Injury 2013 January 2nd Gael Bigirimana Injury Hip/Thigh Injury 2013 January 2nd Danny Simpson Injury Broken Toe 2012 December 29th Vurnon Anita Injury Ankle/Foot Injury 2012 December 26th Jonas Gutierrez Injury Knee Injury 2012 December 24th Hatem Ben Arfa Injury Hamstring Injury 2012 December 10th Cheik Tiote Injury Hamstring Injury 2012 December 3rd Demba Ba Injury Hamstring Injury 2012 December 3rd Davide Santon Injury Groin/Pelvis Injury 2012 December 3rd Jonas Gutierrez Injury Knee Injury 2012 December 3rd Steven Taylor Injury Hamstring Injury 2012 November 25th Hatem Ben Arfa Injury Hamstring Injury 2012 November 22nd Papiss Cisse Injury Hip/Thigh Injury 2012 November 22nd Shola Ameobi Injury Groin/Pelvis Injury 2012 November 17th Gabriel Obertan Injury Toe Injury 2012 November 14th Papiss Cisse Injury Back Injury 2012 November 11th Jonas Gutierrez Injury Knee Injury 2012 November 11th Demba Ba Injury Calf/Shin Injury 2012 November 11th Yohan Cabaye Injury Groin/Pelvis Injury 2012 November 11th Demba Ba Injury Calf/Shin Injury 2012 November 4th James Perch Injury Thigh Muscle Strain 2012 November 4th Yohan Cabaye Injury Hamstring Injury 2012 November 4th Sammy Ameobi Injury Hamstring Injury 2012 November 4th Demba Ba Injury Calf/Shin Injury 2012 October 28th Danny Simpson Injury Shoulder Injury 2012 October 28th Shane Ferguson Injury Hip/Thigh Injury 2012 October 10th Yohan Cabaye Injury Abdominal Pains 2012 October 9th Haris Vučkić Injury ACL Knee Injury 2012 October 8th Dan Gosling Injury Knee Injury 2012 October 8th Rob Elliott Injury Groin/Pelvis Injury 2012 October 4th Steven Taylor Injury Calf/Shin Injury 2012 September 29th Yohan Cabaye Injury Mouth Infection 2012 September 28th Fabricio Coloccini Injury Hip/Thigh Injury 2012 September 27th Papiss Cisse Injury Illness 2012 September 18th Tim Krul Injury Arm/Elbow Injury 2012 September 9th Fabricio Coloccini Injury Hamstring Injury 2012 September 5th Danny Simpson Injury Hamstring Injury 2012 September 2nd Haris Vučkić Injury Groin Strain 2012 August 31st Ryan Taylor Injury ACL Knee Injury 2012 August 30th James Perch Injury Neck Injury 2012 August 30th Demba Ba Injury Calf/Shin Injury 2012 August 18th
Which was a pretty remarkable feat given our struggle.
Only remarkable considering the amount of injuries he was faced with."Most"??? We still had the same squad that season. We lost Cabaye and Ba, our two top performers. The rest of the squad that finished 5th still remained. And even they both only left in the last couple of years.
Cabaye, Cisse and Ba were the stars of the club. Only Cisse remained there. 2 out of 3 is most.Again, we were playing terribly because players weren't being utilised in their proper positions and continually playing out of form players despite the whole world being able to see how awful they were.
What do you expect when he has a razor thin squad to experiment with? Of course they're being played out of position, Mike Ashley never gave him the squad depth to fill the gaps left by injuries.We had a few injuries but we certainly had the back up there to be able to compete. As I say, dreadful tactics and players being played in stupid positions and nullifying any creativity was killing the team.
A few injuries??? That is a huge understatement. Yous topped the injury table for that season. As an Arsenal fan, I know, first hand, how badly a rash of injuries can affect the team's form. Having to play European football every second Thursday just exacerbates that.Transfers? But you just said that we never replaced the players we lost due to a tight fisted owner.
Who signed Demba Ba? Pardew.
Who signed Cisse? Pardew.
Who signed Debuchy? Pardew.
Who signed Cabaye? Pardew.
Who signed Remy on loan, Newcastle's top goalscorer last season? Pardew.
Who signed Tevez and Mascherano at West Ham? Pardew.
You can't deny he has a decent eye for talent, he probably even outshines Roberto Martínez and even Brendan Rogers in that department.As for tactics... With Crystal Palace he's gotten a lot of things right and it's hard to dispute that. With Newcastle? Not at all. He was pure muck.
He's hardly tactically inept when his Newcastle team are Jose Mourinho's bogey team and made it to the quarter-finals of the Europa League with an injury-hit squad and after losing two of his three best players.
Another thing, what good are tactics when you lose half your squad to injuries? Losing players means you have to shuffle things up and bring in inexperienced players. Tactics are wasted on the inexperienced, but he done pretty well considering.But I thought he was great at transfers?
I never said he was great, just good, but he would be better if Mike Ashley gave him freedom to do so. It just like Villas-Boas at Spurs, he had little or no control over the transfers at Tottenham and look at what happened to them - Bale's transfer money flushed down the toilet.
The players he did sign (as listed above) were shrewd buys.A dead end job? We're one of the biggest supported clubs in England. A team that is supported by passionate loons despite all the doom and gloom. A support base that still go to away games in droves and continually go to home games regardless of the shíte they're being served up.
Of course it's a dead-end job. Do you really think the club are going to have any progress under Ashley? There's little freedom working under him and he refuses to splash his millions.If a manager loses his passion for the job there in front of people who have shown nothing but passion to a club floating in its own shít, then it speaks volumes about the manager himself and not the club.
So you expect Pardew to stick around and put up with Ashley's shít for the sake of being "passionate"? Even Jose Mourinho decided to leave Chelsea because of the shít he had to put up with from Roman Abramovich, despite Chelsea being in a very strong position in 2007. As long as Ashley's in charge, Pardew's career is much better off without Newcastle, but Newcastle certainly aren't better off without Pardew - he was doing well this season until the fixtures got congested in December, where, once again, the lack of squad depth got the better of him, courtesy of Ashley's penny-pinching ways.Well, at the end of the day Pardew was the one setting up the team, asking players to play in his shítty tactics and not Ashley.
His tactics seem to working well at Palace. Once again, Newcastle top the injury table, so perhaps the drop in form could be attributed to that? Arsenal brought in a new coach and now we only have one player out injured, ironically, an ex-Geordie. New coaching staff and different training methods is something Newcastle need to investigate, which is probably Pardew's fault, so he's obviously not perfect but having a larger squad can help overcome that.There's no disputing that Ashley remains a big problem at the club but Pardew played his part.
I'd sooner get rid of Ashley than Pardew, but Newcastle fans seem more content on using Pardew as a scapegoat for every problem at the club.We are? We're well aware Ashley won't spend. He'll spend enough to get by without making us relevant. We've known this for a while but thank you for shedding the light on things we clearly didn't already know. :rolleyes:
There have been many protests. It hasn't worked. There will always be a large group who will voice their opinion of him whether it be inside the ground or not.
They put a lot more effort into protesting about Pardew than Ashley and now they lost a manager that's probably too good for them. The fact that he brought yous up to 5th place just shows that he has something to offer, but he is limited by the worst chairman in the Premiership. Even David Moyes nearly got Everton relegated, but he turned out to be great for them. I actually hope Moyes stays away from Newcastle because Ashley would ruin any chance Moyes has at reestablishing himself as a solid Premiership manager, like Pardew has done.
Although they were wrong in the end, Cardiff City's fans set an example of how to protest about a dodgy chairman. Newcastle fans, however, just keep blaming the manager.0 -
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It should be pretty clear what I'm saying. Just read the thread. In summary.
Anger misdirected.
I can see exactly what you are saying, and I can see how you try to wriggle out of saying it whenever anybody points out the flaws in your argument.
You are saying that because Pardew is doing so well at Palace now, that proves Newcastle fans were wrong to want rid of him before. Which ignores the fact that he was doing an, at best, okay job on the pitch at Newcastle (if you ignore the entertainment factor) while being a despicable character off it, making it perfectly sensible that the fans wanted him gone.0 -
So over the course of 2 threads yesterday we've had people telling Newcastle fans they were wrong about the manager of the team they watch every week aswell as someone telling Liverpool fans they were wrong about Hodgson, the manager of the team we watched every week.
This is a strange place.0 -
Its great! Obviously Pardew has to prove it over an extended period but right now he's mustard.0
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I can see exactly what you are saying, and I can see how you try to wriggle out of saying it whenever anybody points out the flaws in your argument.
You are saying that because Pardew is doing so well at Palace now, that proves Newcastle fans were wrong to want rid of him before. Which ignores the fact that he was doing an, at best, okay job on the pitch at Newcastle (if you ignore the entertainment factor) while being a despicable character off it.
OK. I think under the current infrastructure (ie Ashley's penny pinching, aiming for 10th, no cup ambitions, etc) Pardew could have done no better than mid table, which, on the aggregate, is about what achieved. He had his shady moments as a character, but his performance on the pitch was about what you'd expect, given the way that club are set up.
Anyone who thinks Newcastle should be top 7 under Ashley is seriously deluded.
I'm glad pardew is performing well because it further highlights the FACT that the problem was Ashley all along.0 -
OK. I think under the current infrastructure (ie Ashley's penny pinching, aiming for 10th, no cup ambitions, etc) Pardew could have done no better than mid table, which, on the aggregate, is about what achieved. He had his shady moments as a character, but his performance on the pitch was about what you'd expect, given the way that club are set up.
Anyone who thinks Newcastle should be top 7 under Ashley is seriously deluded.
I'm glad pardew is performing well because it further highlights the FACT that the problem was Ashley all along.
So you are saying that Newcastle fans were wrong to want Pardew out?0 -
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I don't think it makes any difference. I'm being really clear here.
No you are not being clear. You are being deliberately unclear because you know that you aren't capable of defending your position in an honest discussion.
So now you say that you don't think it makes any difference to Newcastle whether Pardew was sacked or not. Cool. Then, since he was an odious character and his football was awful to watch, it logically follows that it makes perfect sense for Newcastle fans to have wanted him sacked. I'm glad we could get that nailed down at least.0 -
No you are not being clear. You are being deliberately unclear because you know that you aren't capable of defending your position in an honest discussion.
So now you say that you don't think it makes any difference to Newcastle whether Pardew was sacked or not. Cool. Then, since he was an odious character and his football was awful to watch, it logically follows that it makes perfect sense for Newcastle fans to have wanted him sacked. I'm glad we could get that nailed down at least.
Someone is disagreeing with your point of view. Welcome to the internet.0 -
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Harry Palmr wrote: »Its great! Obviously Pardew has to prove it over an extended period but right now he's mustard.
English mustard. The best kind!0 -
I have to say, this whole "he was horrible off the pitch" business is IMO a new angle.
When did people start caring about the imagined personalities of managers?
I mean, history is littered with football managers who seemed to be nasty little men. You had Ferguson suing because someone tried to take away his free horse or at least horse semen, or not talking to the BBc for years because someone questioned his little scam with his son, Clough knocking back the whiskey and punching fans and so on.
When did people get so hung up on what a manager did away from football?0 -
Only opened this thread because I read it as Alan Partridge to join Crystal Palace. This is all rather disappointing. Fair play to Pardew for a good job well done. I saw on MOTD last night that as a manager this season he has 51 points. Impressive indeed.0
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Someone is disagreeing with your point of view. Welcome to the internet.
I've just shown that your argument actually supports my point of view.
Your argument is so poorly constructed that it doesn't even contradict the people who you think you are disagreeing with. Welcome to participating in a discussion forum.0 -
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Deleted User wrote: »I have to say, this whole "he was horrible off the pitch" business is IMO a new angle.
When did people start caring about the imagined personalities of managers?
I mean, history is littered with football managers who seemed to be nasty little men. You had Ferguson suing because someone tried to take away his free horse or at least horse semen, or not talking to the BBc for years because someone questioned his little scam with his son, Clough knocking back the whiskey and punching fans and so on.
When did people get so hung up on what a manager did away from football?
Fans have always cared about managers' personas. It's the same as the entertainment value of the football. If the manager is successful, then it won't be much of a issue either way, if he is less than successful then the fans won't accept an obnoxious character as manager. There's usually a healthy debate to be had when trying to establish what counts as success of course.0 -
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This season under Pardew Newcastle had 1.36 points per game.
Since he's left they have 0.75 points per game.0 -
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super_furry wrote: »This season under Pardew Newcastle had 1.36 points per game.
Since he's left they have 0.75 points per game.
The facts speak for themselves.0 -
super_furry wrote: »This season under Pardew Newcastle had 1.36 points per game.
Since he's left they have 0.75 points per game.
Does that prove that Pardew is better than Carver? Hardly surprising is it.0 -
Fans have always cared about managers' personas. It's the same as the entertainment value of the football. If the manager is successful, then it won't be much of a issue either way, if he is less than successful then the fans won't accept an obnoxious character as manager. There's usually a healthy debate to be had when trying to establish what counts as success of course.
But if it's an issue, it should be an issue whether the manager is successful or not. In fact to make it an an issue just because a manager gets a club to 5th ala Pardew, or 1st ala Ferguson, would be sheer hypocrisy.
Do you think Ferguson was a nasty bitter little man, who pretty much tried to end careers when people questioned his scams, like getting rid of Greening for refusing to have his son as agent, or Stan for admitting they were told to cheat? Is that how ManU fans remember him? I doubt it.
Managers through history have been nasty little men. As indeed have footballers. I'm just not sure it really should come into the equation when discussing one.0 -
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super_furry wrote: »This season under Pardew Newcastle had 1.36 points per game.
Since he's left they have 0.75 points per game.
In fairness in those 11 games they've played Chelsea, Southampton, Man City, Man Utd & Arsenal and play Liverpool next.0 -
Undoubtedly he's doing fantastically well in the honeymoon period as Palace manager. Just like in the beginning at Newcastle manager and in his first season in the Premier League with West Ham.
However, his real test will come in his first full season with Palace. Maybe I'll be proven wrong but I would be very surprised if Palace aren't in the relegation battle next season if he's still in charge. We would have certainly been relegated had we stuck with him in 2006-07. He then went on to relegate Charlton that year despite having an initial "honeymoon" period.
I'd like to ask all those fans who seem to be gloating that Pardew is initially doing well at Palace: If you had the choice, would you take him at your club?0 -
Hammer Archer wrote: »Undoubtedly he's doing fantastically well in the honeymoon period as Palace manager. Just like in the beginning at Newcastle manager and in his first season in the Premier League with West Ham.
However, his real test will come in his first full season with Palace. Maybe I'll be proven wrong but I would be very surprised if Palace aren't in the relegation battle next season if he's still in charge. We would have certainly been relegated had we stuck with him in 2006-07. He then went on to relegate Charlton that year despite having an initial "honeymoon" period.
I'd like to ask all those fans who seem to be gloating that Pardew is initially doing well at Palace: If you had the choice, would you take him at your club?
Absolutely.0 -
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Deleted User wrote: »But if it's an issue, it should be an issue whether the manager is successful or not. In fact to make it an an issue just because a manager gets a club to 5th ala Pardew, or 1st ala Ferguson, would be sheer hypocrisy.
Do you think Ferguson was a nasty bitter little man, who pretty much tried to end careers when people questioned his scams, like getting rid of Greening for refusing to have his son as agent, or Stan for admitting they were told to cheat? Is that how ManU fans remember him? I doubt it.
Managers through history have been nasty little men. As indeed have footballers. I'm just not sure it really should come into the equation when discussing one.
I do think Ferguson was nasty, bitter, greedy, two-faced and probably corrupt in a few different ways. Some of the Machiavellian aspects of his character are a requirement for effective management, but a lot of the publicly viewable undesirable traits were not. I was willing to put up with them because he was successful. Speaking for myself, I remember the good and bad of Ferguson and I acknowledged both aspects while he was in charge.
It's possible for something to be an issue, while also accepting that it's a price worth paying for success. And so it follows that there's a required amount of success or else the price isn't worth paying. I don't think that is hypocritical.
You say that football is full of nasty little men, but that denies the obvious truth that there is a broad spectrum of characters and personas from the likeable to the detestable.0 -
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super_furry wrote: »This season under Pardew Newcastle had 1.36 points per game.
Since he's left they have 0.75 points per game.
Its Pardews fault they are doing worse without him. Its his off field behaviour thats doing the damage. #carverthemessiah0 -
Hammer Archer wrote: »Undoubtedly he's doing fantastically well in the honeymoon period as Palace manager. Just like in the beginning at Newcastle manager and in his first season in the Premier League with West Ham.
However, his real test will come in his first full season with Palace. Maybe I'll be proven wrong but I would be very surprised if Palace aren't in the relegation battle next season if he's still in charge. We would have certainly been relegated had we stuck with him in 2006-07. He then went on to relegate Charlton that year despite having an initial "honeymoon" period.
I'd like to ask all those fans who seem to be gloating that Pardew is initially doing well at Palace: If you had the choice, would you take him at your club?
Of course Crystal Palace may struggle to stay up.
Has there been a season in the past 100 years when they were in the top flight when they haven't?
Apart from this one, since Pardew took over...
He could manage Cork City FC any time. I would be delighted. Not sure he would!0 -
Last season?Deleted User wrote: »Of course Crystal Palace may struggle to stay up.
Has there been a season in the past 100 years when they were in the top flight when they haven't?
Apart from this one, since Pardew took over...
He could manage Cork City FC any time. I would be delighted. Not sure he would!
And I'd take him at UCD as well. I may not have been clear that I was talking about English clubs. Saipanne seems unable to say which club he supports which is a shame.0 -
Hammer Archer wrote: »I may not have been clear that I was talking about English clubs. Saipanne seems unable to say which club he supports which is a shame.
But a surprise to no one considering the nature of his posts on the subject.0 -
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Hammer Archer wrote: »Last season?
And I'd take him at UCD as well. I may not have been clear that I was talking about English clubs. Saipanne seems unable to say which club he supports which is a shame.
Oh I'd have him at Leeds United in a heartbeat too.
Did they not struggle last season? 2 in a row. Impossible for them to do 3. Have they ever stayed up 3 seasons in a row? It would be nosebleed territory for them.0 -
Hammer Archer wrote: »Last season?
And I'd take him at UCD as well. I may not have been clear that I was talking about English clubs. Saipanne seems unable to say which club he supports which is a shame.
Cork City FC. Happy?0 -
MOTD2 having an interesting discussion on Newcastle. Echoing my views on the true problem which is how the club is run.0
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OneEightSeven wrote: »No, a packed schedule and topping the injury list is the reason why the team struggled. I don't follow Newcastle religiously like I do Arsenal
So you don't follow Newcastle religiously yet you feel comfortable guessing that injuries was one of the sole reasons we struggled.
They certainly didn't help but here's a list of players that were injured when we finished 5th in 2011/12.Cheik Tiote Injury Head Injury 2012 May 2nd Danny Simpson Injury Ankle/Foot Injury 2012 April 28th Yohan Cabaye Injury Knock 2012 April 28th Yohan Cabaye Injury Ankle/Foot Injury 2012 April 21st James Perch Injury Hip/Thigh Injury 2012 April 9th Cheik Tiote Injury Hamstring Injury 2012 April 6th James Perch Injury Knock 2012 April 3rd Gabriel Obertan Injury Knock 2012 April 3rd Haris Vučkić Injury Knee Injury 2012 April 3rd Danny Guthrie Injury Calf/Shin Injury 2012 April 1st Fabricio Coloccini Injury Hamstring Injury 2012 March 25th Papiss Cisse Injury Calf/Shin Injury 2012 March 25th Cheik Tiote Injury Hip/Thigh Injury 2012 March 12th Danny Simpson Injury Muscle Injury 2012 March 12th Ryan Taylor Injury Calf Muscle Strain 2012 March 11th Peter Lovenkrands Injury Thigh Muscle Strain 2012 March 6th Shola Ameobi Injury Illness 2012 March 1st Papiss Cisse Injury Groin Strain 2012 February 25th Cheik Tiote Injury Knock 2012 February 25th Demba Ba Injury Knock 2012 February 25th Yohan Cabaye Injury Knock 2012 February 25th Ryan Taylor Injury Ankle/Foot Injury 2012 February 5th Leon Best Injury MCL Knee Ligament Injury 2012 February 5th Fabricio Coloccini Injury Groin Strain 2012 January 25th Yohan Cabaye Injury Ankle/Foot Injury 2012 January 15th Sammy Ameobi Injury Knee Injury 2012 January 10th Danny Simpson Injury Shoulder Injury 2012 January 7th Yohan Cabaye Injury Knock 2012 January 4th Gabriel Obertan Injury Toe Injury 2011 December 30th Demba Ba Injury Knock 2011 December 26th Davide Santon Injury Knee Injury 2011 December 21st Peter Lovenkrands Injury Calf/Shin Injury 2011 December 19th Nile Ranger Injury Ankle/Foot Injury 2011 December 17th Ryan Taylor Injury Ankle/Foot Injury 2011 December 14th Danny Guthrie Injury Gilmores Groin 2011 December 8th Fabricio Coloccini Injury Hip/Thigh Injury 2011 December 3rd Steven Taylor Injury Ruptured Achilles 2011 December 3rd Sylvain Marveaux Injury Gilmores Groin 2011 November 7th Yohan Cabaye Injury Gilmores Groin 2011 November 7th Leon Best Injury Gilmores Groin 2011 November 7th Gabriel Obertan Injury Toe Injury 2011 November 3rd Steven Taylor Injury Broken Nose 2011 October 23rd Shola Ameobi Injury Hamstring Injury 2011 October 22nd Cheik Tiote Injury MCL Knee Ligament Injury 2011 October 22nd Yohan Cabaye Injury Ankle/Foot Injury 2011 October 9th Demba Ba Injury Sprained Ankle 2011 October 1st Shola Ameobi Injury Shoulder Injury 2011 September 23rd Ryan Donaldson Injury Hamstring Injury 2011 September 23rd Alan Smith Injury Hamstring Injury 2011 September 23rd Davide Santon Injury Cartilage Knee Injury 2011 September 16th Mehdi Abeid Injury Knee Injury 2011 September 12th Haris Vučkić Injury Thumb/Wrist Injury 2011 September 1st Mike Williamson Injury Ankle/Foot Injury 2011 August 25th Steve Harper Injury Knee Injury 2011 August 25th Shola Ameobi Injury Hip/Thigh Injury 2011 August 20th Ryan Taylor Injury Groin Strain 2011 July 26th Hatem Ben Arfa Injury Ankle/Foot Injury 2011 July 21st Danny Guthrie Injury Calf/Shin Injury 2011 May 20th Jonas Gutierrez Injury Knock 2011 May 20th Kevin Nolan Injury Knee Injury 2011 May 13th Steve Harper Injury Ankle/Foot Injury 2011 May 13th James Perch Injury Knee Injury 2011 May 13th Mike Williamson Injury Broken Arm 2011 May 6th
Yohan Cabaye Injury Ankle/Foot Injury 2013 May 19th Rob Elliott Injury Arm/Elbow Injury 2013 May 17th Cheik Tiote Injury Hamstring Injury 2013 May 12th Steven Taylor Injury Illness 2013 May 11th Shola Ameobi Injury Knee Injury 2013 May 4th Massadio Haidara Injury Hamstring Injury 2013 April 30th Moussa Sissoko Injury Knee Injury 2013 April 30th Papiss Cisse Injury Rib Injury 2013 April 20th Cheik Tiote Injury Hamstring Injury 2013 April 14th Sylvain Marveaux Injury Groin/Pelvis Injury 2013 April 14th Tim Krul Injury Dislocated Shoulder 2013 April 14th Rob Elliott Injury Ankle/Foot Injury 2013 April 14th Mapou Yanga-Mbiwa Injury Knock 2013 April 11th Steven Taylor Injury Knee Injury 2013 April 10th Yohan Cabaye Injury Ankle/Foot Injury 2013 April 7th Davide Santon Injury Hamstring Injury 2013 April 7th James Perch Injury Hamstring Injury 2013 April 4th Danny Simpson Injury Ankle/Foot Injury 2013 April 4th Cheik Tiote Injury Hamstring Injury 2013 March 27th Davide Santon Injury Hip/Thigh Injury 2013 March 19th Mathieu Debuchy Injury Hamstring Injury 2013 March 17th Massadio Haidara Injury Knee Injury 2013 March 17th Yohan Cabaye Injury Groin/Pelvis Injury 2013 March 14th Shola Ameobi Injury Ankle/Foot Injury 2013 March 7th Hatem Ben Arfa Injury Hamstring Injury 2013 March 7th Papiss Cisse Injury Illness 2013 March 3rd Yohan Cabaye Injury Illness 2013 February 24th Fabricio Coloccini Injury Back Injury 2013 February 24th Steve Harper Injury Knee Injury 2013 February 22nd Tim Krul Injury Ankle/Foot Injury 2013 February 21st Yohan Cabaye Injury Knee Injury 2013 February 21st Cheik Tiote Injury Illness 2013 February 20th Sammy Ameobi Injury Hamstring Injury 2013 February 11th Yoan Gouffran Injury Calf/Shin Injury 2013 February 9th Sylvain Marveaux Injury Ankle/Foot Injury 2013 January 28th Gabriel Obertan Injury Knock 2013 January 25th Yohan Cabaye Injury Groin/Pelvis Injury 2013 January 19th James Perch Injury Knee Injury 2013 January 5th Fabricio Coloccini Injury Hamstring Injury 2013 January 2nd Papiss Cisse Injury Hip/Thigh Injury 2013 January 2nd Gael Bigirimana Injury Hip/Thigh Injury 2013 January 2nd Danny Simpson Injury Broken Toe 2012 December 29th Vurnon Anita Injury Ankle/Foot Injury 2012 December 26th Jonas Gutierrez Injury Knee Injury 2012 December 24th Hatem Ben Arfa Injury Hamstring Injury 2012 December 10th Cheik Tiote Injury Hamstring Injury 2012 December 3rd Demba Ba Injury Hamstring Injury 2012 December 3rd Davide Santon Injury Groin/Pelvis Injury 2012 December 3rd Jonas Gutierrez Injury Knee Injury 2012 December 3rd Steven Taylor Injury Hamstring Injury 2012 November 25th Hatem Ben Arfa Injury Hamstring Injury 2012 November 22nd Papiss Cisse Injury Hip/Thigh Injury 2012 November 22nd Shola Ameobi Injury Groin/Pelvis Injury 2012 November 17th Gabriel Obertan Injury Toe Injury 2012 November 14th Papiss Cisse Injury Back Injury 2012 November 11th Jonas Gutierrez Injury Knee Injury 2012 November 11th Demba Ba Injury Calf/Shin Injury 2012 November 11th Yohan Cabaye Injury Groin/Pelvis Injury 2012 November 11th Demba Ba Injury Calf/Shin Injury 2012 November 4th James Perch Injury Thigh Muscle Strain 2012 November 4th Yohan Cabaye Injury Hamstring Injury 2012 November 4th Sammy Ameobi Injury Hamstring Injury 2012 November 4th Demba Ba Injury Calf/Shin Injury 2012 October 28th Danny Simpson Injury Shoulder Injury 2012 October 28th Shane Ferguson Injury Hip/Thigh Injury 2012 October 10th Yohan Cabaye Injury Abdominal Pains 2012 October 9th Haris Vučkić Injury ACL Knee Injury 2012 October 8th Dan Gosling Injury Knee Injury 2012 October 8th Rob Elliott Injury Groin/Pelvis Injury 2012 October 4th Steven Taylor Injury Calf/Shin Injury 2012 September 29th Yohan Cabaye Injury Mouth Infection 2012 September 28th Fabricio Coloccini Injury Hip/Thigh Injury 2012 September 27th Papiss Cisse Injury Illness 2012 September 18th Tim Krul Injury Arm/Elbow Injury 2012 September 9th Fabricio Coloccini Injury Hamstring Injury 2012 September 5th Danny Simpson Injury Hamstring Injury 2012 September 2nd Haris Vučkić Injury Groin Strain 2012 August 31st Ryan Taylor Injury ACL Knee Injury 2012 August 30th James Perch Injury Neck Injury 2012 August 30th Demba Ba Injury Calf/Shin Injury 2012 August 18th
If I compare the injuries with your list, Tiote, Cabaye, Cisse, Simpson, Perch, Ben Arfa, Ameobi, Ba, Steven Taylor and Ryan Taylor were all out even when we finished fifth.
We didn't get rid of any key players the following season (at the start anyway) so it shows that the injury excuse doesn't cut it in this instance.Only remarkable considering the amount of injuries he was faced with.
Remarkable given how bad he had us playing and almost had us relegated. For somebody who "thanked god" that we were out of the Europa League, he didn't exactly turn things around and have us safe from a relegation dog fight.Cabaye, Cisse and Ba were the stars of the club. Only Cisse remained there. 2 out of 3 is most.
So you're going back on your "most of our players were sold" nonsense? Cabaye, Cisse and Ba were excellent for us but we still had the likes of Ben Arfa, Santon, Tiote, Krul and Coloccini who were a core group of players who were really playing well together.
We had a solid core to build on, Ashley didn't release the funds, fair enough but how Pardew could not get the same work ethic from the same group of players is beyond me.What do you expect when he has a razor thin squad to experiment with? Of course they're being played out of position, Mike Ashley never gave him the squad depth to fill the gaps left by injuries.
We're certainly stretched in certain positions like most Premier League teams but it's hardly razor thin.A few injuries??? That is a huge understatement. Yous topped the injury table for that season.
And we still had most of the same players injured for parts of the 2011/12 season too yet still managed to finish fifth.As an Arsenal fan, I know, first hand, how badly a rash of injuries can affect the team's form. Having to play European football every second Thursday just exacerbates that.
Again, Arsenal - like Newcastle - are stretched in certain positions but Wenger is still able to set up a team and compete even with injuries.
We knew that there would be more games but it's hardly a surprise. Managers bitch and moan about congestion but it's not as if fixture list haven't been known since the start of every season.
We didn't get the players we needed to strengthen. That's Ashley's doing. But for Pardew to use it as a ready made excuse, blame fixture congestion rather than looking at his team and saying, "Hmmm, ok. I'll give a few fringe players a chance because we've got a big game 4 days later."
Even then, he's asking them to play in tactics that doesn't suit the balance of the team. Playing the same formation, the same shítty tactics despite it not working. No wonder we lost 19 league games that season.Who signed Demba Ba? Pardew.
Who signed Cisse? Pardew.
Who signed Debuchy? Pardew.
Who signed Cabaye? Pardew.
Who signed Remy on loan, Newcastle's top goalscorer last season? Pardew.
Who signed Tevez and Mascherano at West Ham? Pardew.
You can't deny he has a decent eye for talent, he probably even outshines Roberto Martínez and even Brendan Rogers in that department.
Em... It was actually Graham Carr who found most of these players and was scouting them for ages. Now, obviously Pardew has a say in who he might like but it doesn't mean he has a "decent eye for talent" when all he's probably seen are scouting notes and a handful of video clips.
As per Mascherano/Tevez wasn't there some shady goings on with that Kia Joorabchian fella?He's hardly tactically inept when his Newcastle team are Jose Mourinho's bogey team
Such a nonsense argument. So when we actually raise our game against one of the bigger teams, beat them should all be forgiven given how crap we were in previous games? Christ.and made it to the quarter-finals of the Europa League with an injury-hit squad
As I've said, we had a good run in the Europa League despite performing awfully in the league... except against Chelsea... obviously.and after losing two of his three best players.
Like who? Ba? He only went in that January transfer window. The rest were still there.Another thing, what good are tactics when you lose half your squad to injuries? Losing players means you have to shuffle things up and bring in inexperienced players. Tactics are wasted on the inexperienced, but he done pretty well considering.
What good are tactics???? Jesus wept.
Ok, injuries will happen but if you can't have a contingency plan then you are doomed to failure.
Inexperienced players will be brought in but I'm sure they understand what tactics are and what their role in a game is. You make it sound like we've a squad of people we just found hanging outside the street on match day.
"G'wan, have a run out there. We're short on players but you don't understand tactics as a football player employed by this football club to play football".
I'm sure Arsenal's young and inexperienced players don't know how tactics work. That's why they're all crap isn't it? Oh wait....I never said he was great, just good, but he would be better if Mike Ashley gave him freedom to do so.
It's a moot point really. Perhaps David Moyes would have done better with Manchester United by the same logic. We'll never know. What we do know is that Pardew's results were horrendously bad after the 2011/12 season for the most part.It just like Villas-Boas at Spurs, he had little or no control over the transfers at Tottenham and look at what happened to them - Bale's transfer money flushed down the toilet.
You don't think that Villas-Boas' tactics and level of results were to blame then? Of course, it's all the fault of the owner.The players he did sign (as listed above) were shrewd buys.
Can't deny that.Of course it's a dead-end job. Do you really think the club are going to have any progress under Ashley? There's little freedom working under him and he refuses to splash his millions.
I don't think we'll progress under Ashley no.So you expect Pardew to stick around and put up with Ashley's shít for the sake of being "passionate"?
Nope. I never said I wanted him to stick around. Just to show a bit of bottle in post game interviews would have been nice instead of blaming everything and everyone but himself.As long as Ashley's in charge, Pardew's career is much better off without Newcastle, but Newcastle certainly aren't better off without Pardew
Perhaps. He's landed on his feet for sure with Palace and has done a good job as I've said many times.
You are right. We are not better off without Pardew. We've still been in the same slump since he has left. Only a new permanent manager will we see how right or wrong we were.he was doing well this season until the fixtures got congested in December, where, once again, the lack of squad depth got the better of him, courtesy of Ashley's penny-pinching ways.
Ah yes, those fixtures that he knew nothing about and couldn't adjust his team accordingly.
We lost 2 of our winter games. But that's the fault of the congestion is it? Did you even watch us in any of these games? I mean, fully watch rather than look at highlights?I'd sooner get rid of Ashley than Pardew, but Newcastle fans seem more content on using Pardew as a scapegoat for every problem at the club.
Well yeah obviously we'd like Ashley out. We're not using anybody as a scapegoat. I have simply called him out on his bullshít tactics and how he had us playing.
But please do tell us all how Newcastle fans are all fickle and deluded because I need to be put back in my box from the sudden experts who follow us closer than we do.They put a lot more effort into protesting about Pardew than Ashley and now they lost a manager that's probably too good for them.
Jesus, and they say that Newcastle fans are deluded... HAHAHAHAHAHA.The fact that he brought yous up to 5th place just shows that he has something to offer, but he is limited by the worst chairman in the Premiership.
Yeah, we had something to offer. He had us playing well. It was enjoyable. Funny how he couldn't get us working again with the same team the following season eh?Even David Moyes nearly got Everton relegated, but he turned out to be great for them. I actually hope Moyes stays away from Newcastle because Ashley would ruin any chance Moyes has at reestablishing himself as a solid Premiership manager, like Pardew has done.
The great David Moyes who had very little money to spend due to financial constraints but managed to have a hard working team fighting in nearly every game? The David Moyes who got on with his job and had Everton playing a great band of football with a small enough squad who finished high up the Premier League nearly every season?
Funny how the great Alan Pardew couldn't do the same under the same financial constraints eh?Although they were wrong in the end, Cardiff City's fans set an example of how to protest about a dodgy chairman. Newcastle fans, however, just keep blaming the manager.
Do we?
We want Ashley out. There's supposedly a few protests planned with many supporters hoping to hit Ashley in the pocket by not going to the Spurs game.
Whether it happens or not is a different story.
We know that Ashley is the problem but this is a discussion about Pardew. Pardew was not a very good manager for us. Like all managers who perform badly, they are prone to getting a bit of stick.
When Newcastle do it, we're all seen as a pack of idiots for some reason.0 -
Again, Arsenal - like Newcastle - are stretched in certain positions but Wenger is still able to set up a team and compete even with injuries.
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I'm sure Arsenal's young and inexperienced players don't know how tactics work. That's why they're all crap isn't it? Oh wait...
Arsenal and Newcastle are not comparable in any way, shape or form.
Though in 2012, Pardew did manage to guide Newcastle to within 2 places of Arsenal. The more you think about it, the more remarkable it gets.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »Arsenal and Newcastle are not comparable in any way, shape or form.
Though in 2012, Pardew did manage to guide Newcastle to within 2 places of Arsenal. The more you think about it, the more remarkable it gets.
If you bothered your hole to read the entire post, I was replying to that poster who is an Arsenal fan.
Of course we're not comparable to Arsenal FFS.0 -
If you bothered your hole to read the entire post, I was replying to that poster who is an Arsenal fan.
Of course we're not comparable to Arsenal FFS.
You seem cross.
Is it the 7 points behind Pardew's Palace that is doing it?
It just makes your position sound a little more...desperate.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »You seem cross.
Is it the 7 points behind Pardew's Palace that is doing it?
It just makes your position sound a little more...desperate.
Care to have an actual debate or continue with childish goading?0 -
Care to have an actual debate or continue with childish goading?
You were the one who started swearing and saying "when I said 'like' I didn't mean 'like'".
But cheeky to throw out the childish accusations. But if you're saying you'll behave from now on, and post in a civil manner, I welcome that.0 -
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Deleted User wrote: »You were the one who started swearing and saying "when I said 'like' I didn't mean 'like'".
But cheeky to throw out the childish accusations. But if you're saying you'll behave from now on, and post in a civil manner, I welcome that.
So you want to partake in a debate or no?0
![[Deleted User]](/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
This discussion has been closed.
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