Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014/15

Nerdlingr

Worst one recently was Nathan Dyer and De Guzman. League cup final in Wembley, Dyer has 2 goals already, theyre 3-0 up and De Guzman wont let him take it to complete his hat-trick. What a pr*ck!

Connavar

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Any time he played with Gerrard he was rarely out-spoken or did any of the things he does now. He look almost afraid of him. Where was his natural leadership? It simply didn't exist.

Maybe he was just smart enough to know that there can only be one captain on the pitch at a time and let Gerrard do the job he trusted him to do

Chucky the tree

Connavar wrote: »

Maybe he was just smart enough to know that there can only be one captain on the pitch at a time and let Gerrard do the job he trusted him to do

Firstly Gerrard wasn't doing the job. Secondly while there can only be one captain it doesn't mean the 10 other players must remain mute at all times.

Utopia Parkway

Henderson was in a no win situation. Get in a shoving match to get the ball back off Ballotelli and he makes a scene and then there is war if he misses the pen after.

Let Ballotelli have the ball and people call him weak.

Ballotelli put him in an awkward position to be honest and had he missed the pen, Mario would be getting it tight from all angles right now. Luckily for him he scored it.

Kirby

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Henderson was in a no win situation. Get in a shoving match to get the ball back off Ballotelli and he makes a scene and then there is war if he misses the pen after.

Let Ballotelli have the ball and people call him weak.

Ballotelli put him in an awkward position to be honest and had he missed the pen, Mario would be getting it tight from all angles right now. Luckily for him he scored it.

I agree with the sentiment but penalties aren't lucky. He scored it because he's good at them. It's not luck that some people score 95% of theirs and others miss half of them.....or take 4 or 5 their entire career and miss all of them. It's a skill, like any other in football.

When I hear commentators (usually English ones) refer to shootouts as a lottery it makes me laugh. The team with the better peno takers invariably wins.

Sir Gallagher

NapoleonInRags wrote: »

I've always thought that Gerrard wasn't a natural leader either - he kind of proved me right last night.

Laughable.

Was Roy Keane not a natural leader after he threw half his team under the bus in the interview with MUTV?

On a completely seperate note, the LFC website and FB page is fcking awful. I couldn't give 2 shiney sh1tes about Robbie Fowler's holiday in Australia.

K-9

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

My thoughts: he ****ing buried the ****ing thing. Well done son.

Calm as f*ck.

Wouldn't expect much better from Gerrard, eying an an ould tv spot for when he retires.

Chucky the tree

Chucky the tree wrote: »

For me Gerrard just wasn't the type of captain I want or like.






But that's the thing. Anyone can read a book that details the things you should do to look like a great captain.


- Encourage players
- Stand up to the ref
- Stand up to the other players
- Be confident

Those are all fairly obvious "captain for dummies" type of things. The problem is great captains do this naturally. For a huge length of time Henderson didn't do any of this stuff. For his first season here he played poorly and he hid. Any time he played with Gerrard he was rarely out-spoken or did any of the things he does now. He look almost afraid of him. Where was his natural leadership? It simply didn't exist.

Great captains are confident, not arrogant. In the confidence chapter for Captains for Dummies Henderson has completely mis-understood what confidence is. He's become arrogant which is a sign of actually not being confident.


Henderson's first big test as a Captain and he's failed it miserably. As a captain any time someone challenges you authority you have to crush them. Henderson bottled it, badly. The worst part of it that he should have never put himself in the position in the first place, and if he was a good captain he'd realise that.

The guy is only 24 remember.


That wasn't the first game he captained. First big test? Talk about blowing it out of proportion

Wichita Lineman

Legend and all that he is I was disappointed to see Gerrard on TV rather than being in the stadium behind the dugout backing his team. He's switched off and hasn't helped 'his' team with his comments. Should be more like Carragher, keep your opinions to yourself until such time as it's actually your job to say something.

Kirby

Wichita Lineman wrote: »

Legend and all that he is I was disappointed to see Gerrard on TV rather than being in the stadium behind the dugout backing his team. He's switched off and hasn't helped 'his' team with his comments. Should be more like Carragher, keep your opinions to yourself until such time as it's actually your job to say something.

I was with you until that point. Carragher is no shining light for this kind of behaviour. He never shuts up on twitter and half of what he says undermines his own opinions when he's in the sky sports studio.

brevity

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Worst one recently was Nathan Dyer and De Guzman. League cup final in Wembley, Dyer has 2 goals already, theyre 3-0 up and De Guzman wont let him take it to complete his hat-trick. What a pr*ck!

I'm OK with this sort of stuff. Sentimentality has no place in those sort of situations. Supposing he misses and the other team get a dodgy penalty, now its 2-1, the team are under pressure and people are pissed that the designated penalty taker didn't take the penalty.

Wichita Lineman

^ Kirby

But Carragher is now a pundit and being paid to be like that - they all do it. Gerrard however is not, until he heads off to LA he is Club Captain and shouldn't be in the studio criticising his teammates. I was at the match last night and no fan there had an issue with Mario. One of his better games and fully deserved to take on the penalty.

Chucky the tree

rarnes1 wrote: »

The guy is only 24 remember.


That wasn't the first game he captained. First big test? Talk about blowing it out of proportion

In what other games did one of the player challenge his authority like that? None. First time it happened he looked lost.

Magico Gonzalez

Kirby wrote: »

I was with you until that point. Carragher is no shining light for this kind of behaviour. He never shuts up on twitter and half of what he says undermines his own opinions when he's in the sky sports studio.

Carragher no longer works for Liverpool, he didn't talk when he did. Now he doesn't let him pipe up all he wants.

Gerrard still does and as such he has no business talking about who should or shouldn't have taken a penalty.

Kirby

I agree and said as much. Gerrard was out of line.

What I was referring to with Carragher, is the contrast between when he's with Neville in the studio and when he gives interviews or is on social media. When he's in a suit in the studio, he attempts analysis in a neutral fashion and gives honest opinion. Or at least the façade of doing so. And then he's on social media spouting about how Liverpool are the bestest team Everest and trololol everybody else is terribad. It's unprofessional.

JohnDaniels

Kirby wrote: »

I was with you until that point. Carragher is no shining light for this kind of behaviour. He never shuts up on twitter and half of what he says undermines his own opinions when he's in the sky sports studio.

I think he means that Gerrard can say what he likes after he has left Liverpool but while he is part of the squad he shouldn't be saying things like last night on TV. I don't remember Carra being vocal about anything on twitter during his time at the club?

Harry Palmr

Clubs should ban players from appearing as studio guests when their team is playing.

JohnDaniels

Chucky the tree wrote: »

In what other games did one of the player challenge his authority like that? None. First time it happened he looked lost.

If he has stood up to him more and took the penalty how does that make him a better leader\captain?

Nerdlingr

brevity wrote: »

I'm OK with this sort of stuff. Sentimentality has no place in those sort of situations. Supposing he misses and the other team get a dodgy penalty, now its 2-1, the team are under pressure and people are pissed that the designated penalty taker didn't take the penalty.

They were 3-0 up against Barnsely who just had their keeper sent off for the penalty. (They went on to win 5-0) The chance of a hat-trick in a cup final at Wembley doesnt happen too often. De Guzman was a pr*ck about it in fairness,he then went off and celebrated the peno like it was the winning goal.
:rolleyes:

Chucky the tree

JohnDaniels wrote: »

If he has stood up to him more and took the penalty how does that make him a better leader\captain?

It makes other players respect him. If the players don't respect you then it's hard to be a captain. Realistically the three options are all ranked below in order of how Henderson should have dealt with the situation

1. Tell Ballo straight away he's the person who's going to take the peno because he's best for it
2. Once Ballo grabs the ball from Henderson, or basically grabs the ball Henderson has to take it back off him and take the penalty.
3. Once Ballo grabs the ball, argue with him because you think you should take the peno but ultimately let him take it because you back-off.


Three is the worst option to take from a leader
/captain point of view.

Chucky the tree

Chucky the tree wrote: »

In what other games did one of the player challenge his authority like that? None. First time it happened he looked lost.

It's only part of the captaincy.

What would've been better, having a blazing row with Ballotelli on the pitch?

Imo what should have happened is Henderson just give the ball to Balotelli and say take it. No moaning then about it.

Ballotelli put him in an awkward position.

T-K-O

This thread is a hoot... Guys complain when Br spins the media but also complain when Gerrard gives it straight.

Hendo did the right thing, Mario wasn't giving him the ball. There is only one player at the club that Mario would have handed it over to.

Anyway, decent performance and a good win.

Utopia Parkway

So basically it would have been better if Henderson had got in a shoving match with Ballotelli over the football? With the two of them fighting over the ball.

The whole argument is boring to be honest. When everyone should be talking about Jordon Ibe, it's been all about the sodding penalty.

JohnDaniels

Chucky the tree wrote: »

It makes other players respect him. If the players don't respect you then it's hard to be a captain. Realistically the three options are all ranked below in order of how Henderson should have dealt with the situation

I guess it comes down to why you respect someone. If I had one of the best penalty takers in the world on my team wanting to take a huge high pressure penalty and my captain took it from him as some show of macho captain dominance I would be pretty pissed.

The options you give aren't realistic in the heat of real time. It probably only dawns on Henderson that Balo is the far superior option when he gets in his face.

Mr Alan

What I worry about with Henderson (who I really like as a player) is that he may lack the intelligence to be a good captain.The second that peno was awarded last night anyone in their right mind was thinking;

1) Balotelli is one of the best peno takers in the world & is having an excellent game - he'll score this and win us the game
2) Scoring this peno (pretty much a certainty with Mario) will help build his confidence even more following his goal against Spurs

Yet Henderson's mind was seemingly elsewhere.

Utopia Parkway

Mr Alan wrote: »

What I worry about with Henderson (who I really like as a player) is that he may lack the intelligence to be a good captain.The second that peno was awarded last night anyone in their right mind was thinking;

1) Balotelli is one of the best peno takers in the world & is having an excellent game - he'll score this and win us the game
2) Scoring this peno (pretty much a certainty with Mario) will help build his confidence even more following his goal against Spurs

Yet Henderson's mind was seemingly elsewhere.

Don't think players really think like that in the heat of a match. It's not like they are sitting on the sofa at home mulling these things over. They are in the middle of the action, trying to play their own game and everything happens really quickly.

ricero

i thought Sterling looked very sharp when he was introduced late on last night. Would love to see him ballo and sturridge start a game together

Mr Alan

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Don't think players really think like that in the heat of a match. It's not like they are sitting on the sofa at home mulling these things over. They are in the middle of the action, trying to play their own game and everything happens really quickly.

Gerrard gave the Everton peno to Sturridge because he thought a hat-trick against Everton would do wonders for the players belief. It happens.

Harry Palmr

ricero wrote: »

i thought Sterling looked very sharp when he was introduced late on last night. Would love to see him ballo and sturridge start a game together

Its the obvious thing (so probably wont happen)

---

Sterling

---

Sturridge--Balotelli

NukaCola

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Great captains are confident, not arrogant. In the confidence chapter for Captains for Dummies Henderson has completely mis-understood what confidence is. He's become arrogant which is a sign of actually not being confident.


Henderson's first big test as a Captain and he's failed it miserably. As a captain any time someone challenges you authority you have to crush them. Henderson bottled it, badly. The worst part of it that he should have never put himself in the position in the first place, and if he was a good captain he'd realise that.

Just to pick you up on two points here, I haven't seen him being arrogant or cocky in any games when he was captain, could you expand on that a bit?

Also, i would not see the peno thing as a big test. Looking at the incident he pretty much handed the ball to Mario with little fuss, Sturridge seemed to make more of it. Some of the photos look like hes lost but looking at the video everything appears normal enough. Also he was man enough to go to Mario when he scored, not a sign of arrogance either.

On a separate note, Hendo handled the media side perfectly also unlike the current Liverpool captain last night, and whether people like it or not the media side of things is important, especially when it comes to players interactions/spats etc its better to keep it out of the media.

Utopia Parkway

Mr Alan wrote: »

Gerrard gave the Everton peno to Sturridge because he thought a hat-trick against Everton would do wonders for the players belief. It happens.

Bit different when it's a hat-trick chance though. You always know when a player is on a hat-trick and if the game is already won there's a good chance he might get given a pen to get him there.

JohnDaniels

Mr Alan wrote: »

Gerrard gave the Everton peno to Sturridge because he thought a hat-trick against Everton would do wonders for the players belief. It happens.

They are hardly comparable situations. Last minute penalty to win a European games when it will be your first high profile penalty as captain. Henderson head was probably going a mile a minute when the penalty was awarded. All he would have been thinking was he was the designated penalty taker. As I said previously it probably only dawns on him that Balo is the far better option when he gets in his face.

Mr Alan

Mr Alan wrote: »

Gerrard gave the Everton peno to Sturridge because he thought a hat-trick against Everton would do wonders for the players belief. It happens.

Was a different situation tbf. 4-0 up and having a party

niallo27

I remember we were fighting over being ****e.

rob316

Mr Alan wrote: »

Gerrard gave the Everton peno to Sturridge because he thought a hat-trick against Everton would do wonders for the players belief. It happens.

Ya but we are up 4 nil in the closing stages of the game the situations aren't comparable. I wouldn't point fingers at Henderson for not giving the ball to Balotelli straight away, Henderson is the captain now he need's to show he is the man for the big occasion.

I would have more confidence in Balotelli taking it but I wouldn't have a problem with Henderson taking it.

Chucky the tree

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Don't think players really think like that in the heat of a match. It's not like they are sitting on the sofa at home mulling these things over. They are in the middle of the action, trying to play their own game and everything happens really quickly.

Good players, especially captains, need to be able to think quickly in pressure situation. It's not as important for soccer but in a sport like Rugby it's hugely important so it certainly is possible.

T-K-O wrote: »

This thread is a hoot... Guys complain when Br spins the media but also complain when Gerrard gives it straight.

Hendo did the right thing, Mario wasn't giving him the ball. There is only one player at the club that Mario would have handed it over to.

Anyway, decent performance and a good win.

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

So basically it would have been better if Henderson had got in a shoving match with Ballotelli over the football? With the two of them fighting over the ball.

The whole argument is boring to be honest. When everyone should be talking about Jordon Ibe, it's been all about the sodding penalty.

The bolded is the problem. We have no leaders/captains at the club out side of Gerrard. Henderson isn't one.

JohnDaniels wrote: »

I guess it comes down to why you respect someone. If I had one of the best penalty takers in the world on my team wanting to take a huge high pressure penalty and my captain took it from him as some show of macho captain dominance I would be pretty pissed.

The options you give aren't realistic in the heat of real time. It probably only dawns on Henderson that Balo is the far superior option when he gets in his face.

If Roy Keane was playing last night and he decided to take the penalty and missed it you can gurantee the 10 other outfields players would be raging. Do you think anyone of them would have confronted him after the game about it though? No chance.

Chucky the tree

NukaCola wrote: »

Just to pick you up on two points here, I haven't seen him being arrogant or cocky in any games when he was captain, could you expand on that a bit?

Also, i would not see the peno thing as a big test. Looking at the incident he pretty much handed the ball to Mario with little fuss, Sturridge seemed to make more of it. Some of the photos look like hes lost but looking at the video everything appears normal enough. Also he was man enough to go to Mario when he scored, not a sign of arrogance either.

On a separate note, Hendo handled the media side perfectly also unlike the current Liverpool captain last night, and whether people like it or not the media side of things is important, especially when it comes to players interactions/spats etc its better to keep it out of the media.

Arrogant want thinking he's the best player to take the penatly last night. Arrogance is thinking he should take every freekick that's near goal when he's not proven himself. He's like the lad who tries too hard. Do you have a full video of it? From what I remember there was a lot of fuss about it and looked to the bench 3-4 times over what to do. He didn't exactly look thrilled going to Mario. Considering the significance of the goal.

NukaCola

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Arrogant want thinking he's the best player to take the penatly last night. Arrogance is thinking he should take every freekick that's near goal when he's not proven himself. He's like the lad who tries too hard. Do you have a full video of it? From what I remember there was a lot of fuss about it and looked to the bench 3-4 times over what to do. He didn't exactly look thrilled going to Mario. Considering the significance of the goal.

Someone posted it a few pages back. I'll take a look. From what i remember he did glance to the bench at least once. When Sturridge got involved he did walk away mouthing off a bit all right.


Edit:

Got a video from youtube of bits of the incident. Not sure if these are allowed so mods can feel free to remove.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_Nyj5jkEPQ

It looks a lot worse than i remember now. Mario sets the ball down to take the peno and Hendo and Sturridge are still mouthing off as he's about to take it. A lesser man would be put off :pac:

Kirby

I think people attributing Hendersons decision to let him have it as some sort of majestic captains decision are getting carried away here and obviously didn't see Henderson when he was walking away.

You don't need to be a lip reader or body language expert to see what he thought of it all. :P

Edit: Nuka beat me to it.

Osmosis Jones

“Steven and Mario are the top two penalty takers, but obviously neither of them were on the pitch at the start so you have to nominate someone,” said Rodgers. “Jordan was nominated, but when we had a penalty Mario had come onto the field.”

“I always assign responsibility every single game and I think in my time here that was been the first time this has ever reared its head. We have a whole raft of penalty takers here who are outstanding. Rickie Lambert has hardly missed a penalty in his career, so there is another taker if he is on the pitch.

“If you are the vice-captain and the captain is on the bench and then he comes on, then it is the etiquette to give him the armband. It is a similar thing with the penalty.

“If Steven is on the field there is no drama. He is the first-choice penalty taker. After that if Mario is on the field he takes the penalty. His history shows he scored nearly 30 penalties in big games and he is an outstanding penalty taker.

“But at the start none of them were on, so Jordan was the nominated penalty taker. Jordan was happy enough to take it, but he gave it to Mario. It is his goal there is no drama.”

From the Telegraph.

rob316

While we have a lot of midfielders to accommodate I would like to see a return to playing with 2 strikers, namely Mario and Sturridge the rest can fook off tbh. We just look much more dangerous.

Wether Rodgers can come up with a system which will keep us defensively sound while playing 2 strikers is another story.

We are up against Southampton next a very organised side and a very good pragmatic manager. We need to hit them hard and fast so Sterling is essential to drive to through their midfield.

Sir Gallagher

Mario going on like a pure boss in that vid :pac: big outrageous moustache on him and all. I just can't hate the guy.

Chucky the tree

NukaCola wrote: »

Someone posted it a few pages back. I'll take a look. From what i remember he did glance to the bench at least once. When Sturridge got involved he did walk away mouthing off a bit all right.


Edit:

Got a video from youtube of bits of the incident. Not sure if these are allowed so mods can feel free to remove.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_Nyj5jkEPQ

It looks a lot worse than i remember now. Mario sets the ball down to take the peno and Hendo and Sturridge are still mouthing off as he's about to take it. A lesser man would be put off :pac:

From my memory the full length of it looked even worse. Once the peno was awarded there was a lot of arguing and posturing by both players and looking towards the bench it before that clip begins. Henderson stepped up to the plate and got pushed off. For a captain to do that can have a pretty huge impact on his standing in the group. I think that's why Sturridge was so eager to push him.

kfallon

Mr Alan wrote: »

2) Scoring this peno (pretty much a certainty with Mario) will help build his confidence even more following his goal against Spurs

Yet Henderson's mind was seemingly elsewhere.

Didn't Gerrard let Sturridge take a peno v Swansea two seasons ago so he could continue his good goalscoring start to his Liverpool career. Think we were 3 or 4 up at the time, Swansea had rested loads ahead of the LC Final the following week. It was a shrewd move on the captain's part!

Agent Coulson

Being totally honest the only player who looks like a captain in that video is Can.

He celebrities with Mario and calls others players over to join in.

Chucky the tree

I love Mario. He's quality entertainment and I'd look out for him no matter who he played for because of that. I just wish he played for United though. As entertaining as he is, he's just poison in a locker room.

spockety

What did we really learn during the peno incident? Nothing about Henderson. We learned that Daniel doesn't like Mario. Basically.

NukaCola

spockety wrote: »

What did we really learn during the peno incident? Nothing about Henderson. We learned that Daniel doesn't like Mario. Basically.

Mario doesn't seem to be too fond of him either :pac:

Chucky the tree

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Being totally honest the only player who looks like a captain in that video is Can.

He celebrities with Mario and calls others players over to join in.

A lot of things about him lead me to believe he could be an excellent captain.

darced

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