Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014/15

Dayum

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

Yep, I'd take Lloris in a hearbeat. He's the perfect 'keeper for the football we like to play (ie, we can't defend for ****e, so we need a 'keeper who loves to come off his line).

We'll probably take the cheap option of Neto, Romero or Henderson though.

Neto isn't a terrible keeper. I'm sure the Brazilians would of preferred him or Diego Alves in goal at the the World Cup rather than Julio Ceasar.

5starpool

I know almost nothing of Neto but I'm very worried by the fact that lots of people I've heard mention him seem to think that he is not good enough. We shouldn't be looking to take cheap options on a goalie. If we can spend 20m on potential for a winger then we should be able to spend a good chunk on a goalie too surely?

Also, if Lloris does leave Spurs it almost certainly won't be for Liverpool. PSG and Real Madrid were the likely suitors mentioned.

wcarey1975

If we buy nothing other than a TOP goalkeeper in January then I can get on board with that. I rather that and a Striker and possibly a CM aswell though in fairness.

W

NukaCola

5starpool wrote: »

I know almost nothing of Neto but I'm very worried by the fact that lots of people I've heard mention him seem to think that he is not good enough. We shouldn't be looking to take cheap options on a goalie. If we can spend 20m on potential for a winger then we should be able to spend a good chunk on a goalie too surely?

Also, if Lloris does leave Spurs it almost certainly won't be for Liverpool. PSG and Real Madrid were the likely suitors mentioned.

Our manager deemed it acceptable to play Brad Jones, an absolute disaster of a GK. You'd have to wonder where his head is at in terms of the defence, almost clueless.

x43r0

Not everyone was able to handle the news the other day

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UO_a3SA_70c

klose

Schwarzer has joined Leicester so not a hope of Cech being sold so we can put that pipe dream to bed I'd say.

Nerdlingr

NukaCola wrote: »

Our manager deemed it acceptable to play Brad Jones, an absolute disaster of a GK. You'd have to wonder where his head is at in terms of the defence, almost clueless.

It's that or stick with the disaster that is Simon Mignolet. We've seen in the two games he's come back into the team him being dropped has, if anything, made him even worse (letting the ball run out if ball v Burnley, getting caught out after 60secs V Leicester). I would have hoped he would have responded in the same way that the likes of DeGea, Hart etc did when they got dropped and pull up his socks a bit. Hasnt happened. At this stage Mignolet is more of a liabilty than Jones.

There was a lot of love for Mignolet on here last year despite the obvious flaws in his game. "but he makes good saves" "his kicking is good" etc etc. People were delighted we got rid of Reina. At least we're all singing off the same hymn sheet this year.

5starpool

NukaCola wrote: »

Our manager deemed it acceptable to play Brad Jones, an absolute disaster of a GK. You'd have to wonder where his head is at in terms of the defence, almost clueless.

It's crazy. No matter who plays in defence we can't defend. Johnson, Skrtel and Lovren were not there against Leicester and we were no better whatsoever. The longer it goes on (and it's been 2.5 years now) the more it looks like he has no idea how to fix what's wrong.

Last season worked because we were so good going forward most of the time, but when that is misfiring we are screwed totally without the ability to grind things out. If we get back on track this season as there have been some recent signs of, it will will be by fixing going forward but not addressing defending. In some ways I'm ok with that as it's exciting and I love to see us playing exhilarating football, but I don't think we have the tools to be as near as good going forward as we were, at least on a consistent basis.

I'm not in the Rodgers out camp or that close to it really, but one way or another, the inability to defend will be the end of him at some stage at Liverpool. Unless he can find a way to concede 30-35 goals a season instead of 45-60 he is done, even if he finds a way to largely reignite the attacking spark. It might not be this season, but I don't think he can survive another similar 4 month spell of mediocrity next season if we misfire up front.

Agent Coulson

Lloris will go to a CL club next season..Liverpool more than likely won't be a CL team next season.

brevity

5starpool wrote: »

I know almost nothing of Neto but I'm very worried by the fact that lots of people I've heard mention him seem to think that he is not good enough. We shouldn't be looking to take cheap options on a goalie. If we can spend 20m on potential for a winger then we should be able to spend a good chunk on a goalie too surely?

Also, if Lloris does leave Spurs it almost certainly won't be for Liverpool. PSG and Real Madrid were the likely suitors mentioned.

I posted this a while back in the other thread.

http://youtu.be/rwsUY0_xucA

Perin and Neto are the two keepers in that game. Why are we not buying the one who has a stormer and basically wins the game for his team?

NukaCola

Nerdlingr wrote: »

At this stage Mignolet is more of a liabilty than Jones.

He really isn't. Both are awful but Jones is probably one of the worst goalkeepers in LFC history. I'd start Mignolet over him every single game.

tok9

Realistically looking at it, Lloris is the only other keeper in the premier league we could get anyway.

If it's not him, then look outside of the PL.

Nerdlingr

NukaCola wrote: »

He really isn't. Both are awful but Jones is probably one of the worst goalkeepers in LFC history. I'd start Mignolet over him every single game.

We'll agree to disagree then. I dont think Jones has been that bad in the few games he played this season. (apart from diving out of the way for united's third goal). His kicking's been good. Cant remember him flapping at crosses. He's made a few saves. I dont recall any unforced errors from him or him putting his team at risk. For a lad that you think is the worst ever in our history he's done ok in my opinion.

Mignolet comes back into the side and waht does he do? Puts the fear of god into his own defenders. There's a cloud hanging over him. Nobody knows what cock up he's gonna do next.

NukaCola

Nerdlingr wrote: »

We'll agree to disagree then.

We'll have to, Jones has done nothing to convince me he should be in this football club.

Nerdlingr

NukaCola wrote: »

We'll have to, Jones has done nothing to convince me he should be in this football club.

And what has he done to convince you he's the worst keeper there's ever been at the club?

Grayditch

I don't know about him being the worst. But Jaysus, he's amateur.

Nerdlingr

I'm not saying he's anything more than he is, but he gets a fair amount of stick for being brutal despite the fact that he doesnt cause that many errors when he does actually play.

Harry Palmr

Lille are looking at recalling their striker Abdoulaye Diaby from Mouscron-Péruwelz in Belgium and making an offer for Kolbeinn Sigthorsson who is the No 2 striker at Ajax, so it looks like they are preparing for Origis exit.

LuckyLloyd

5starpool wrote: »

It's crazy. No matter who plays in defence we can't defend. Johnson, Skrtel and Lovren were not there against Leicester and we were no better whatsoever. The longer it goes on (and it's been 2.5 years now) the more it looks like he has no idea how to fix what's wrong.

Last season worked because we were so good going forward most of the time, but when that is misfiring we are screwed totally without the ability to grind things out. If we get back on track this season as there have been some recent signs of, it will will be by fixing going forward but not addressing defending. In some ways I'm ok with that as it's exciting and I love to see us playing exhilarating football, but I don't think we have the tools to be as near as good going forward as we were, at least on a consistent basis.

I'm not in the Rodgers out camp or that close to it really, but one way or another, the inability to defend will be the end of him at some stage at Liverpool. Unless he can find a way to concede 30-35 goals a season instead of 45-60 he is done, even if he finds a way to largely reignite the attacking spark. It might not be this season, but I don't think he can survive another similar 4 month spell of mediocrity next season if we misfire up front.

Is it an ideological thing? I would contend that the attitudes on here by times are borne of a preference or belief in 'attack is the best form of defense' - that we'd rather draw 4 - 4 than grind out a dour Houllieresque 1 - 0. My Spurs supporting mate has said it to me in the past - he'd rather 8th place with fluid attacking football than grinding out CL qualification with 'dull' football and a low average goals per game.

Rodgers can't be blind to the defensive frailty. It may simply be that he doesn't believe in putting time into that side of the game and that trying to address it would be a failing of his philosophy.

I don't know - I'm trying to provide the benefit of the doubt here. The other alternative is that he doesn't see things as being wrong and / or he's trying to fix it but simply doesn't have the coaching ability required.

LuckyLloyd

Nerdlingr wrote: »

And what has he done to convince you he's the worst keeper there's ever been at the club?

The way he's played and stuff!?

rob316

tok9 wrote: »

Realistically looking at it, Lloris is the only other keeper in the premier league we could get anyway.

If it's not him, then look outside of the PL.

Begovic is a keeper I really rate, he is strong, vocal and an excellent shot stopper. He is who we should have went for instead of the timid Mignolet in the first place. He would have cost about 5m more but once again we took the cheap option and have paid for it.

Boom_Bap

tok9 wrote: »

Realistically looking at it, Lloris is the only other keeper in the premier league we could get anyway.

If it's not him, then look outside of the PL.

I thought that it's pretty much nailed on that his next club will be PSG?

LuckyLloyd

rob316 wrote: »

Begovic is a keeper I really rate, he is strong, vocal and an excellent shot stopper. He is who we should have went for instead of the timid Mignolet in the first place. He would have cost about 5m more but once again we took the cheap option and have paid for it.

Plus, he accurately lobs the ball from kick offs onto the chest of Jonny Walters up on the right wing 10 times a game so the assumption would be that he can use the ball well.

Vicxas

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Lille are looking at recalling their striker Abdoulaye Diaby from Mouscron-Péruwelz in Belgium and making an offer for Kolbeinn Sigthorsson who is the No 2 striker at Ajax, so it looks like they are preparing for Origis exit.

Ugh, he really could have used another half season there.

LuckyLloyd

Vicxas wrote: »

Ugh, he really could have used another half season there.

I think it's absolutely laughable that we're paying to bring him back early. Lille may be struggling and the team might not be setup perfectly for him blah, blah but it's very desperate altogether to throw him into the fray when the team is performing poorly imo.

5starpool

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Is it an ideological thing? I would contend that the attitudes on here by times are borne of a preference or belief in 'attack is the best form of defense' - that we'd rather draw 4 - 4 than grind out a dour Houllieresque 1 - 0. My Spurs supporting mate has said it to me in the past - he'd rather 8th place with fluid attacking football than grinding out CL qualification with 'dull' football and a low average goals per game.

Rodgers can't be blind to the defensive frailty. It may simply be that he doesn't believe in putting time into that side of the game and that trying to address it would be a failing of his philosophy.

I don't know - I'm trying to provide the benefit of the doubt here. The other alternative is that he doesn't see things as being wrong and / or he's trying to fix it but simply doesn't have the coaching ability required.

The only thing I can think of is that the style he tries to play or get us to play has defensive frailty as an inherent flaw. When it works it can paper over the cracks as last season showed, but it won't work consistently enough to allow for the fallow periods in our attacking play where our defence is exposed without scoring goals to make up for it.

If he is successful at Liverpool ultimately it will be because he can find a blend of the two that works better and still allows us to (when on form) play mesmerising attacking football. I think if you ask players who leave the club (and this is an opinion only obviously) their view on him as a coach the attackers will wax lyrical while the defenders probably will say standard polite things (at best) or be generally critical.

Vicxas

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I think it's absolutely laughable that we're paying to bring him back early. Lille may be struggling and the team might not be setup perfectly for him blah, blah but it's very desperate altogether to throw him into the fray when the team is performing poorly imo.

My feeling exactly, if he was tearing up the French league then absolutely.

Now it just feels like another bench warming coming to keep Lambert company.

Gbear

Vicxas wrote: »

Ugh, he really could have used another half season there.

I don't see him getting any benefit from playing with them.

He'll get games here and an attacking midfield behind him that'll actually give him something to do unlike Lille, who presumably don't attack at all given that they've only scored 15 goals.

It's fairly small fry, it's still a good deal for him if the fee reported is accurate (but given the market, even if the total is 15m that's still good business), Lille don't need him because they don't attack and aren't playing for anything and Origi will benefit from getting integrated into the side earlier.

Jesus Wept

Three words.

Bring back Doni.

brevity

I remember watching the Keane/Vieira interview thing a while back and Vieria said something interesting about Wenger.

He said the best thing was that he trusted his players and wasnt too overbearing with instructions. He also said that this was his worst thing. That quite often players do need instructions on what to do and what not to do.

I think Rodgers is the same.

Boom_Bap

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I think it's absolutely laughable that we're paying to bring him back early. Lille may be struggling and the team might not be setup perfectly for him blah, blah but it's very desperate altogether to throw him into the fray when the team is performing poorly imo.

In fairness, I'd rather have him than Balotelli. I'd nearly pay 3 mil to get rid of him.
Obvious that Origi has talent, opposition defenders wont know much about him and they really wont like how he will run at them.

If we are changing conditions of loan/sale, then its only right that we have to pay something.

If we are getting rid of Balotelli (as his agent seems to want) and Borini, then Origi and another forward of decent calibre would be handy to have.

LuckyLloyd

5starpool wrote: »

The only thing I can think of is that the style he tries to play or get us to play has defensive frailty as an inherent flaw. When it works it can paper over the cracks as last season showed, but it won't work consistently enough to allow for the fallow periods in our attacking play where our defence is exposed without scoring goals to make up for it.

If he is successful at Liverpool ultimately it will be because he can find a blend of the two that works better and still allows us to (when on form) play mesmerising attacking football. I think if you ask players who leave the club (and this is an opinion only obviously) their view on him as a coach the attackers will wax lyrical while the defenders probably will say standard polite things (at best) or be generally critical.

I agree the system itself is going to be weak to some extent defensively. When you're asking fullbacks to bomb forward and are squeezing high up the pitch (in theory) you're going to naturally create situations were center backs are exposed and / or the one sitting midfielder is overloaded. That said, within that inherent systematic weakness you still expect basics to be done right. Bodyshapes to be good; positioning to be optimal; center backs to operate as a unit; solidity to be there when defending set pieces. Those things have been absent since he took over.

I could accept a general defensive weakness due to tactical preference but its the basic haplessness on show that's incredibly discouraging. Bear in mind that some of the same players looked very solid as individuals at times under Dalglish and Clark. Johnson / Skrtl / Agger / Enrique looked like defensive assets before Rodgers took over.

As Carragher said on MNF after the Utd defeat - there simply isn't time spent on defending on the training ground.

Harry Palmr

Vicxas wrote: »

Ugh, he really could have used another half season there.

I think Origi sees what he has to work with at Lille and then looks at who he can play with at Liverpool and probably reckons he'd like to leave anyway. They are a terribly negative defence first side. Must be very frustrating to be 30 yards from the next nearest teammate!

Like I said last night - play two up and get the diamond back. The very worst that will happen is that he'll spend a few months acclimatizing to the PL game but as he is built for it I reckon he'll be fine.

NukaCola

i heart chewy louie wrote: »

There words.

Bring back Doni.

Great at LB also

emo72

About paying the extra few million to bring Origi here early, at least he will have got the second half of the season to bed in. Rather than leaving it till next season, and then starting from scratch. He might do a Sturridge and start lashing them in straight away though. Always hope at this club.

Grayditch

If Origi comes early and doesn't make a relatively good and immediate impact, the club will look a bit clueless and his progress and confidence could be stunted.

This just feels like a bad idea. If it's even happening.

5starpool

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I agree the system itself is going to be weak to some extent defensively. When you're asking fullbacks to bomb forward and are squeezing high up the pitch (in theory) you're going to naturally create situations were center backs are exposed and / or the one sitting midfielder is overloaded. That said, within that inherent systematic weakness you still expect basics to be done right. Bodyshapes to be good; positioning to be optimal; center backs to operate as a unit; solidity to be there when defending set pieces. Those things have been absent since he took over.

I could accept a general defensive weakness due to tactical preference but its the basic haplessness on show that's incredibly discouraging. Bear in mind that some of the same players looked very solid as individuals at times under Dalglish and Clark. Johnson / Skrtl / Agger / Enrique looked like defensive assets before Rodgers took over.

As Carragher said on MNF after the Utd defeat - there simply isn't time spent on defending on the training ground.

Yep. If we could even perform to a PL average at set pieces I'd be delighted with that as progress.

NukaCola

Nerdlingr wrote: »

And what has he done to convince you he's the worst keeper there's ever been at the club?

Ok. Let me rephrase. He is the worst GK to be picked as first choice for our side and possibly 2nd keeper in my living memory. You'd have to go back to before the 80's to find one and before then I'm not exactly clued in first hand on our goalkeepers.

I watched every game he's played for us. He is at amateur level to be fair. Has no standout ability and is below average in every area of his game. I'm not saying it to be OTT, it gives me no pleasure to say it but he is awful.

All IMO of course.

PhiloCypher

Grayditch wrote: »

If Origi comes early and doesn't make a relatively good and immediate impact, the club will look a bit clueless and his progress and confidence could be stunted.

This just feels like a bad idea. If it's even happening.

Only mildly more clueless then we would if he came in in the summer and didn't perform in fairness.

monkey9

5starpool wrote: »

The only thing I can think of is that the style he tries to play or get us to play has defensive frailty as an inherent flaw. When it works it can paper over the cracks as last season showed, but it won't work consistently enough to allow for the fallow periods in our attacking play where our defence is exposed without scoring goals to make up for it.

If he is successful at Liverpool ultimately it will be because he can find a blend of the two that works better and still allows us to (when on form) play mesmerising attacking football. I think if you ask players who leave the club (and this is an opinion only obviously) their view on him as a coach the attackers will wax lyrical while the defenders probably will say standard polite things (at best) or be generally critical.

It's not just style in terms of attacking and being caught out the back. Look at how bad we are from set pieces. We just seem to be so bad at defending all round.

Agent Coulson

https://twitter.com/TonyBarretTimes/status/552011808861872128

Vicxas

Agent Coulson wrote: »

https://twitter.com/TonyBarretTimes/status/552011808861872128

Just keep him there ffs,


Spend the money elsewhere.

NukaCola

Agent Coulson wrote: »

https://twitter.com/TonyBarretTimes/status/552011808861872128

Swap Mario.....

gafferino

Random post lads sorry.....

Is there anyone on here from Cork? If so could you send me a PM.

Cheers

Bandana boy

Seeing rumours on Netto gaining pace today
Superstiuous nonesense I know but have we ever signed a player from the Italian League that worked ?

Rush returning is the only one I can think off that was not a disaster.

Much prefer if we fish in Spanish ,Dutch or possible with the Rouble issues Russian waters this transfer window

rob316

gafferino wrote: »

Random post lads sorry.....

Is there anyone on here from Cork? If so could you send me a PM.

Cheers

Sent

garra

brevity wrote: »

I remember watching the Keane/Vieira interview thing a while back and Vieria said something interesting about Wenger.

He said the best thing was that he trusted his players and wasnt too overbearing with instructions. He also said that this was his worst thing. That quite often players do need instructions on what to do and what not to do.

I think Rodgers is the same.

Lucky for Arsene that he inherited a top defence from George Graham that did not require tweaking. Whats George Graham doing these days?

mormank

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

If I thought a keeper was going to be solid (no mistakes; distributes decently; makes a reasonable amount of big saves) for 5 seasons I'd say £25m is well, well worth it.

I doubt Bayern will sell anytime soon tho. Mignolet hasn't become a terrible goalie over night, I think it is the pressure he is unable to handle. Honestly at this point I reckon it is just the pressure that keepers, and other, players are put under whilst playing for us. Especially keepers tho for some reason.

Over the past 10-20 years Liverpool have gone through a phenomenal amount of keepers, with Reina being the pick of the bunch imo and a special mention to Sander Westerweld. Several of these keepers have even gone on to have pretty decent/very good careers at mid table clubs after leaving Liverpool, such as Friedal and James. Westerweld almost won the league with Sociedad after leaving us. Utd have the same problems with the goalkeeper position and went through many keepers trying to replace schmeichal before landing on Van Der Sar and went through a few trying to replace him before landing on De gea. There was a time just a few seasons ago when around half of the goalkeepers starting each week in the PL had previously played for Liverpool or Utd.

NukaCola

Bandana boy wrote: »

Seeing rumours on Netto gaining pace today
Superstiuous nonesense I know but have we ever signed a player from the Italian League that worked ?

Ian Rush :cool:
eh.....like you said...
nevermind.....

monkey9

gafferino wrote: »

Random post lads sorry.....

Is there anyone on here from Cork? If so could you send me a PM.

Cheers

No thank god.