Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014/15

smileyj1987

Hangball Doughboy wrote: »

I can't remember where I read or heard it, but I seem to recall that Ayre is defo a Rafa hater as he was there when Rafa was and he has his card marked with FSG as a trouble making type character.

No way we see Rafa back under these owners IMO.

Honestly I hate that man ayre he is only there to sign the cheques and that's it . His opinion shouldn't matter one bit .

Magico Gonzalez

SlickRic wrote: »

not doing a Leeds and signing big players are not mutually exclusive ventures.

Alexis Sanchez might have been enticed for the price of a Balotelli and Lallana (and I think Lallana is a good player).

basically, you can buy elite if you sacrifice two or 3 very good players.

if we'd done nothing with the Suarez money and wages, other than put it into signing a Sanchez-type and a couple of squad beefer-uppers, we'd be in a far better position in the table right now.

we'd essentially have the same team as last year (assuming Sanchez would've gotten to sort of the same level as Suarez), except with a couple more options. and we'd be in the same position FFP-wise.

for instance, would anyone here have taken Lovren and Balotelli combined price and wages and rather ploughed into an elite player like Sanchez? I know I would.

we don't have to be run by oligarchs to buy big when it's needed. i'm not asking for a £40-50m in every position. but sometimes, you do just have to pay what is needed to remain competitive at the top table.

I think this is an overly simplistic view of how transfers work. It's not like Liverpool are offering the money to Sanchez, the money is offered to Barcelona but if Sanchez decides he prefers Arsenal, then he goes to Arsenal or he winds down his Barcelona contract and goes when he is ready, for nothing. Barcelona know that, it's not a world cup year so he has no issues competing for places at Camp Nou.

He preferred Arsenal, no amount of throwing money at the problem changes that. I don't think we have had a problem meeting valuations, I think we have had a problem attracting big players. Arsenal are a more solid bet for Champs league, always in there and generally get out of the group and beyond.

We aren't in the bracket to buy foreign "marquee" players (Balotelli is not that!..he was a punt, a risky bet) , we're competing in the developing talent or English players market (or from the prem league looking to move on from a mid table team (no jokes please!)...no point pretending or fooling ourselves otherwise. Look, in the last 5 years, how many champs league qualifications have we achieved? How many times have we challenged for the league? Players like Sanchez dont move for FA Cups and other mickey mouse tournaments, they move for league challenges and champs league, but they make those judgements on the basis of sustained challenges for both.

If Suarez stays, it's another discussion. Unfortunately, he outgrew us to.

Reality sucks, history is for us fans not for foreign players not so much in touch with the club's past and potential.

Hangballlouie

smileyj1987 wrote: »

Honestly I hate that man ayre he is only there to sign the cheques and that's it . His opinion shouldn't matter one bit .

FSG rate him and he good on the commercial side, which is where he should always be, not in the front of pictures with legends sitting behind him or in a position to make any type of footballing decision.

Magico Gonzalez

Rafa's time at Liverpool is done. I'm afraid his transfer record and the performance of the team in his last 2 seasons at Liverpool mean he won't be back.

When he left, I was ready for a change. Sadly we made a complete bollix of that process.

PhiloCypher

SlickRic wrote: »

not doing a Leeds and signing big players are not mutually exclusive ventures.

Alexis Sanchez might have been enticed for the price of a Balotelli and Lallana (and I think Lallana is a good player).

basically, you can buy elite if you sacrifice two or 3 very good players.

if we'd done nothing with the Suarez money and wages, other than put it into signing a Sanchez-type and a couple of squad beefer-uppers, we'd be in a far better position in the table right now.

we'd essentially have the same team as last year (assuming Sanchez would've gotten to sort of the same level as Suarez), except with a couple more options. and we'd be in the same position FFP-wise.

for instance, would anyone here have taken Lovren and Balotelli combined price and wages and rather ploughed into an elite player like Sanchez? I know I would.

we don't have to be run by oligarchs to buy big when it's needed. i'm not asking for a £40-50m in every position. but sometimes, you do just have to pay what is needed to remain competitive at the top table.

Didn't we offer a better financial package then Arsenal and he chose the bright lights of London over dreary Liverpool. Plan A(quality) failed so they went with plan B(quantity) . Now you could argue they probably should have had multiple plan A's(tho they did try for Falcao didn't they?) instead of jumping immediately to plan B but you can't accuse them of not trying , this time anyways.

Turtyturd

When did this A+ stuff start?

Agent Coulson

Turtyturd wrote: »

When did this A+ stuff start?

It's all about The Game.

Turtyturd

Agent Coulson wrote: »

It's all about The Game.

And how you play it?

Hangballlouie

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

Rafa's time at Liverpool is done. I'm afraid his transfer record and the performance of the team in his last 2 seasons at Liverpool mean he won't be back.

When he left, I was ready for a change. Sadly we made a complete bollix of that process.

When he finished 2nd you mean? Awful performance.

Agent Coulson

Turtyturd wrote: »

And how you play it?

How you play the behind the scenes politics and who really is The Authority.

5starpool

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

Rafa's time at Liverpool is done. I'm afraid his transfer record and the performance of the team in his last 2 seasons at Liverpool mean he won't be back.

When he left, I was ready for a change. Sadly we made a complete bollix of that process.

Ah heyor.

[Picard saying WTF is this shít.gif]

Bandana boy

Agent Coulson wrote: »

How you play the behind the scenes politics and who really is The Authority.

Oi Edmunds NO !

It s All about control and if you can take it.

Nerdlingr

5starpool wrote: »

I didn't think Murphy was that great really. The 2 of them were very annoying at times and I didn't get any particular insights from him I have to say.

I know that he wraps his own christmas presents...and it took him 2 hours to do so!
Doesnt get much more insightful than that!

NukaCola

Nerdlingr wrote: »

I think Markovic has done while well since he's played there. Obviously not his ideal position but at least we can see him getting stronger and more confident as a player. Moreno and Enrique havent exactly set the world on fire when they've played have they?
Rodgers has come across a system where he can have a shield in front of the back three, play gerrard further forward, and have the likes of sterling, coutinho and lallana as an attacking three.

I dont know why people are knocking it. Its the best we've played all season in terms of linking up and transitions of play.

Where did i knock the system or say anything that isn't true?
We had 2 LBs on the bench and a LF at LWB did we not?

Markovic has done well going forward but is just a body in defence, offers nothing in the defence side of things. As for him getting more confident as a player from playing LWB, he looked more than confident playing in an attacking role before coming to Liverpool. Are you suggesting BR is getting the best from him by playing him out of position?

Gbear

NukaCola wrote: »

Where did i knock the system or say anything that isn't true?
We had 2 LBs on the bench and a LF at LWB did we not?

Markovic has done well going forward but is just a body in defence, offers nothing in the defence side of things. As for him getting more confident as a player from playing LWB, he looked more than confident playing in an attacking role before coming to Liverpool. Are you suggesting BR is getting the best from him by playing him out of position?

He's giving him game time which is better than before.

I think Moreno looks like he's our first choice LB/LWB.
We had a slightly different team for a cup game or at the very least rotated due to the number of fixtures.

Mr Alan

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

He preferred Arsenal, no amount of throwing money at the problem changes that.

You simply don't know that and are stating it as fact so as to help prove your point.

In fact, if we know anything about modern footballers it's that money changes everything.

Sanchez went for £35m, are you suggesting that if we offered Barca £50m they wouldn't be more likely to insist on dealing with Liverpool?

Or more crucially if we told them we wouldn't sell them Suarez without Sanchez coming the other way, that they'd not have played hardball with the player and told him that he had to at least talk to Liverpool?

At that point Rodgers Co. earn their money & sell the project to him, the chance to become a hero, to replace one of the best players in the history of the club etc. Offer him a nice chunk more wages than Arsenal and I suspect he'd be more likely to choose Liverpool.

5starpool

Nerdlingr wrote: »

I know that he wraps his own christmas presents...and it took him 2 hours to do so!
Doesnt get much more insightful than that!

I stand corrected. James Milner would have been proud of that anecdote.

LuckyLloyd

The whole Money Ball strategy was based on the premise of exploiting an inefficient market. Picking up better players than your opponents were in for on the cheap because they were looking at the wrong things. Signing:

Borini £11m
Allen £15m
Lovren £20m
Lallana £25m
Markovic £20m

is a million miles away from that philosophy or idealogy. The Sturridge / Couthino deals (and it's easy to say in hindsight) were in line with the idea - picking up two young players written off by big clubs for a combined £18m. In the case of this summer's business we've paid top dollar for young talented players. There's no edging out of the market involved there, and the wages these guys are on are presumably very decent outlays given their achievements and standing in the game.

I think some people are fooled into thinking our strategy is smart or evolutionary. It isn't - it's simply cheap. Keep the wage bill down and retain some onsale value if it doesn't work out brilliantly and hope we strike gold enough times to end up with a decent team at some point.

I don't know, it sounds like the kind of strategy you'd employ if you're accepting being out of the CL for a while and wish to balance the books while doing it.

NukaCola

Gbear wrote: »

He's giving him game time which is better than before.

I think Moreno looks like he's our first choice LB/LWB.
We had a slightly different team for a cup game or at the very least rotated due to the number of fixtures.

He could also give him game time in an advanced role versus Wimbledon instead of shoehorning him into a position which curbs his natural attacking game while also puts him out of his depth in Defence. Getting away with it doesn't mean he is good there.

As for the slightly different team because of a cup game Markovic has started his last few games as LWB so thats not an excuse really.

I just dont know why he was bought if BR see's him as a viable LWB whether or not people think he's "doing all right" there. Play him in his actual position or loan him out to a team where he'll play in his best position or save yourself the bother and dont buy him at all.

ush

Mr Alan wrote: »

Offer him a nice chunk more wages than Arsenal and I suspect he'd be more likely to choose Liverpool.

Grand so, pay over the odds for everything then.

Nerdlingr

NukaCola wrote: »

Where did i knock the system or say anything that isn't true?
We had 2 LBs on the bench and a LF at LWB did we not?

Markovic has done well going forward but is just a body in defence, offers nothing in the defence side of things. As for him getting more confident as a player from playing LWB, he looked more than confident playing in an attacking role before coming to Liverpool. Are you suggesting BR is getting the best from him by playing him out of position?

We won last night, with Markovic playing at LWB, against the hurly burly of a league two side. And he was one of our better players and could have scored a couple. Yet the team selection and his selction in it is still criticised. I dont get it.

I never made the suggestion Rodgers is getting the best from him but he's getting something out of him at least, and it seems to have co-incided with his switch to LWB. He may just be a body in defence but at least he's getting game time and is developing from first team experience.
He has looked good as an attacking threat in the last few games, even from a LWB role.

K-9

Allen was £15/16 Million, but yep, we paid top dollar this Summer for signings. Moreno maybe the only one at a reasonable price, Can has bags of "potential".

D'Agger

K-9 wrote: »

Allen was £15/16 Million, but yep, we paid top dollar this Summer for signings. Moreno maybe the only one at a reasonable price, Can has bags of "potential".

I think Can, at 20, already looks a bargain at 10m

LuckyLloyd

K-9 wrote: »

Allen was £15/16 Million, but yep, we paid top dollar this Summer for signings. Moreno maybe the only one at a reasonable price, Can has bags of "potential".

Sorry, brain fart there. He was of course £15/16m. Still wasn't 'value' at that price. We paid a very generous sum for what he was.

And therefore it comes down to if you're overpaying and getting fleeced anyway, you might aswell think about bringing in the finished article the odd time.

K-9

NukaCola wrote: »

He could also give him game time in an advanced role versus Wimbledon instead of shoehorning him into a position which curbs his natural attacking game while also puts him out of his depth in Defence. Getting away with it doesn't mean he is good there.

As for the slightly different team because of a cup game Markovic has started his last few games as LWB so thats not an excuse really.

I just dont know why he was bought if BR see's him as a viable LWB whether or not people think he's "doing all right" there. Play him in his actual position or loan him out to a team where he'll play in his best position or save yourself the bother and dont buy him at all.

I assume with 3 CB's and Lucas Rodgers doesn't see the defensive WB's as a priority. Manquillo was very forward at times last night, plus we'd Lambert up front!

K-9

D'Agger wrote: »

I think Can, at 20, already looks a bargain at 10m

Have to say I've been very impressed with him so far, barring Coutinho we haven't had a great record at signings in that age bracket over the last few years. What age was Henderson when he was signed?

dogbert27

ush wrote: »

Grand so, pay over the odds for everything then.

Is that not what we did with Llalana, Markovic, Lovren?

Dayum

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The whole Money Ball strategy was based on the premise of exploiting an inefficient market. Picking up better players than your opponents were in for on the cheap because they were looking at the wrong things. Signing:

Borini £11m
Allen £25m
Lovren £20m
Lallana £25m
Markovic £20m

is a million miles away from that philosophy or idealogy. The Sturridge / Couthino deals (and it's easy to say in hindsight) were in line with the idea - picking up two young players written off by big clubs for a combined £18m. In the case of this summer's business we've paid top dollar for young talented players. There's no edging out of the market involved there, and the wages these guys are on are presumably very decent outlays given their achievements and standing in the game.

I think some people are fooled into thinking our strategy is smart or evolutionary. It isn't - it's simply cheap. Keep the wage bill down and retain some onsale value if it doesn't work out brilliantly and hope we strike gold enough times to end up with a decent team at some point.

I don't know, it sounds like the kind of strategy you'd employ if you're accepting being out of the CL for a while and wish to balance the books while doing it.

You're right.

The Moneyball strategy can work in theory and practice but that is neither a) what has happened at Liverpool this past Summer and b) not the policy that should be pursued by a club supposedly espousing vision/ambition with an intent to challenge for titles.

None of the names you've mentioned will be passed on for a higher fee. LFC paid over the odds for these "potentials" and if it wasn't a part of the Moneyball strategy then it is simply bad business and an indictment of the incompetencies of the transfer committee. Apart from Alonso - all of the below could have been sold on for more...

Xabi Alonso £8m (said he wasn't contacted by LFC in the Summer)
Wilfried Bony £12m (in the Summer - now substantially higher)
Christian Benteke £15m (in the Summer - now substantially higher)
Loic Remy £13m (LFC tried to reduce fee with medical - ended up at Chelsea)
Harry Kane £3m (As of August '14 - now substantially higher)
Nathaniel Clyne £7m (As of August '14 - now substantially higher)
Raphael Varane £25m (Good luck getting him now)
Marquinhos £25 (Good luck getting him now)
Morgan Schneiderlin £20 (As of August '14 - now substantially higher)
Toby Alderweireld £10 (As on August '14 - now substantially higher)

Brendan Rodgers role as manager is no longer tenable.

TL;DR - Liverpool are paying over the odds for players not good enough to compete at the level they see themselves at.

Turtyturd

Marquinhos, Schneiderlin, and Alderwield would have been real moneyball signings.

NukaCola

Turtyturd wrote: »

Marquinhos, Schneiderlin, and Alderwield would have been real moneyball signings.

Moneyball. Signing Can, Markovich, Lovren a season before we did. They doubled their value in one year.

Utopia Parkway

Dayum wrote: »

You're right.

The Moneyball strategy can work in theory and practice but that is neither a) what has happened at Liverpool this past Summer and b) not the policy that should be pursued by a club supposedly espousing vision/ambition with an intent to challenge for titles.

None of the names you've mentioned will be passed on for a higher fee. LFC paid over the odds for these "potentials" and if it wasn't a part of the Moneyball strategy then it is simply bad business and an indictment of the incompetencies of the transfer committee. Apart from Alonso - all of the below could have been sold on for more...

Xabi Alonso £8m (said he wasn't contacted by LFC in the Summer)
Wilfried Bony £12m (in the Summer - now substantially higher)
Christian Benteke £15m (in the Summer - now substantially higher)
Loic Remy £13m (LFC tried to reduce fee with medical - ended up at Chelsea)
Harry Kane £3m (As of August '14 - now substantially higher)
Nathaniel Clyne £7m (As of August '14 - now substantially higher)
Raphael Varane £25m (Good luck getting him now)
Marquinhos £25 (Good luck getting him now)
Morgan Schneiderlin £20 (As of August '14 - now substantially higher)
Toby Alderweireld £10 (As on August '14 - now substantially higher)

Brendan Rodgers role as manager is no longer tenable.

TL;DR - Liverpool are paying over the odds for players not good enough to compete at the level they see themselves at.

Swansea wanted 20M for Bony in the Summer.

K-9

Bony was nearer £19 Million and the committee wouldn't pay, Rodgers wanted him, well that's the pro Rodgers spin anyway.

I'd my doubts about him but then we went and spent £16 Million on Mario............

Gbear

NukaCola wrote: »

He could also give him game time in an advanced role versus Wimbledon instead of shoehorning him into a position which curbs his natural attacking game while also puts him out of his depth in Defence. Getting away with it doesn't mean he is good there.

As for the slightly different team because of a cup game Markovic has started his last few games as LWB so thats not an excuse really.

I just dont know why he was bought if BR see's him as a viable LWB whether or not people think he's "doing all right" there. Play him in his actual position or loan him out to a team where he'll play in his best position or save yourself the bother and dont buy him at all.

Markovic isn't starting in midfield because Rodgers prefers other options but he does seem to want to get him game time.

We've played Coutinho, Lallana, Gerrard, Lambert, Sterling and Balotelli at various times in the front 4. Markovic has had some chances up front but it's not surprising he's down the pecking order.

He was seeing plenty of the ball yesterday in good positions. He just couldn't quite get the ball to drop for him in most cases or got surrounded.

In the 5-4-1 thing we've done lately, we'ved tended to have 1 reserved full back (Manquillo or Hendo) and 1 lunatic virtually given free roam (Moreno or Markovic). Neither of the players on the left have had a particularly onerous job to do in defence.

Turtyturd

NukaCola wrote: »

Moneyball. Signing Can, Markovich, Lovren a season before we did. They doubled their value in one year.

The opposite of that is Schneiderlin, Southampton pay a few million...you wait a while, bring him in for a score, give him three fiddy a week and profit.

Dayum

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Swansea wanted 20M for Bony in the Summer.

K-9 wrote: »

Bony was nearer £19 Million and the committee wouldn't pay, Rodgers wanted him, well that's the pro Rodgers spin anyway.

I'd my doubts about him but then we went and spent £16 Million on Mario............

After every club in the known Universe knew Liverpool had cash to spend following the sale of Suarez...

Utopia Parkway

Dayum wrote: »

After every club in the known Universe knew Liverpool had cash to spend following the sale of Suarez...

Can hardly blame the club for that.

Nerdlingr

Turtyturd wrote: »

Marquinhos, Schneiderlin, and Alderwield would have been real moneyball signings.

Alderwield was a strange one. He was all the rage about a year or two ago yet when he came up for loan Southampton got him.
He would have been a very very good loan signing for any of the top teams. Dunno why no-one else really went in for him. Especially us! as we were dealing with Atletico over the Manquillo deal at the time.

K-9

Gbear wrote: »

Markovic isn't starting in midfield because Rodgers prefers other options but he does seem to want to get him game time.

We've played Coutinho, Lallana, Gerrard, Lambert, Sterling and Balotelli at various times in the front 4. Markovic has had some chances up front but it's not surprising he's down the pecking order.

He was seeing plenty of the ball yesterday in good positions. He just couldn't quite get the ball to drop for him in most cases or got surrounded.

In the 5-4-1 thing we've done lately, we'ved tended to have 1 reserved full back (Manquillo or Hendo) and 1 lunatic virtually given free roam (Moreno or Markovic). Neither of the players on the left have had a particularly onerous job to do in defence.

AM's isn't an area we are light on all right, it probably is a way to get him more game time and used to the style of English football. Tbh there's plenty to criticise Rodgers on, that wouldn't be high on my list.

Demosthenese

Dayum wrote: »

Xabi Alonso £8m (said he wasn't contacted by LFC in the Summer)
Wilfried Bony £12m (in the Summer - now substantially higher)
Christian Benteke £15m (in the Summer - now substantially higher)
Loic Remy £13m (LFC tried to reduce fee with medical - ended up at Chelsea)
Harry Kane £3m (As of August '14 - now substantially higher)
Nathaniel Clyne £7m (As of August '14 - now substantially higher)
Raphael Varane £25m (Good luck getting him now)
Marquinhos £25 (Good luck getting him now)
Morgan Schneiderlin £20 (As of August '14 - now substantially higher)
Toby Alderweireld £10 (As on August '14 - now substantially higher)

Brendan Rodgers role as manager is no longer tenable.

TL;DR - Liverpool are paying over the odds for players not good enough to compete at the level they see themselves at.

Something tells me that IF we'd signed Clyne/Schneidelin/Kane/Alderweirld there'd be still be people calling them failed signings regardless. We tend to look at everyones signings every year and say "Hey that could have been us" ... every club has the hits and misses at that level. At Liverpool they need to hit the ground running or they get slaughtered. It's different at other clubs - they get time.

Gbear

K-9 wrote: »

AM's isn't an area we are light on all right, it probably is a way to get him more game time and used to the style of English football. Tbh there's plenty to criticise Rodgers on, that wouldn't be high on my list.

If Markovic is a little more composed on the ball maybe he picks himself up a couple of goals yesterday.

Then everything is amazing, Rodgers is a genius and Markovic is the 2nd coming of Christ.

Really, it's just throwing a decent lad on the pitch and he's playing alright. Not much more to be said.

I think that's the crux of this formation. It's trying to minimise risk going backwards by taking on board the changes after the Palace game (more Lucas, less Lovren) and trying to railroad over our lack of goals by throwing a bunch of good footballers onto the field at the same time.

I don't think it's the long term solution. It's just a little adjustment to get us through a sticky patch.

D'Agger

K-9 wrote: »

Have to say I've been very impressed with him so far, barring Coutinho we haven't had a great record at signings in that age bracket over the last few years. What age was Henderson when he was signed?

Signed Hendo aged 20

Agent Coulson

There is a very good young core to the team 25 and younger.

Sakho, Moreno, Flanagan, Can, Henderson, Coutinho, Sterling, Markovic, Balotelli, Sturridge, Ibe, Origi, Wisdom, Teixeira.

What we don't have is the experienced players aged 25 to 32 that should make up the spine of the team Goalkeeper, Centre Back and Centre Midfield.

They are the players the club need to target in the next 2 transfer windows.

8-10

NukaCola wrote: »

Moneyball. Signing Can, Markovich, Lovren a season before we did. They doubled their value in one year.

Moneyball is not about increasing resale value or save money, some people seem to confuse this.

Sappy404

https://twitter.com/Liddellpool/status/552499346038861824

Agent Coulson

That is to good a price for him not to buy.

Agent Coulson

Liverpool Said to Seek More From Sponsors.

Liverpool is demanding an increased amount from potential shirt sponsors even as the English Premier League soccer team faces a future without its two most-marketable players.

The team has been seeking as much as 30 million pounds ($46 million) a year from its main shirt sponsor for the 2016 season, from the current 20 million pounds, according to a person familiar with the matter. Standard Chartered Plc is interested in remaining on the jerseys, while other companies, including Japan’s Nomura Holdings Inc. (8604), have been approached, people with knowledge of the matter said, asking not to be identified because the discussions are confidential.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-01-06/liverpool-said-to-seek-50-more-from-sponsors-amid-gerrard-exit.html

Sappy404

Agent Coulson wrote: »

That is to good a price for him not to buy.

TBF I can't see it mentioned on their twitter, and Blick is a tabloid even if they have reported it. Pinch of salt, as per.

8-10

How much would Dzeko cost if City are signing Bony?

Charlie19

Sappy404 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Liddellpool/status/552499346038861824

Billy's telling lies.
http://www.blick.ch/sport/fussball/international/inter-juve-oder-liverpool-shaq-entscheid-in-72-stunden-sonst-droht-die-wueste-id3386979.html

Agent Coulson

Charlie19 wrote: »

Billy's telling lies.
http://www.blick.ch/sport/fussball/international/inter-juve-oder-liverpool-shaq-entscheid-in-72-stunden-sonst-droht-die-wueste-id3386979.html

Shaqiri himself had already agreed verbally financially with Liverpool during their 20-million deal in the summer. The agreement would be negotiated accordingly fast

So he had agreed to join us in the summer and wages were set as well.

I wonder what happened.