Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014/15

klose

Markovic is finally getting a run in the team but he's playing as a lwb, doubt he particularly thrilled with that role himself considering he's rw/rf. People writing him off is stupid given his circumstances.

Chardee MacDennis

are we actually signing Pjanic?

Vicxas

BastardPrince wrote: »

are we actually signing Pjanic?

Very doubtful,


Add him to the list of people that'll choose London over Liverpool.

Agent Coulson

So we are giving Roma Johnson & £25m and getting Pjanic return sounds good to me.

LuckyLloyd

MonkeyTennis wrote: »

I'm genuinely sorry I came in here.

Sorry about that...I can repost the FSG New Year statement again if you like?

Everything is beautiful...we're doing great...our squad is super talented

Better?

Blatter

klose wrote: »

Markovic is finally getting a run in the team but he's playing as a lwb, doubt he particularly thrilled with that role himself considering he's rw/rf. People writing him off is stupid given his circumstances.

Who is writing him off though? People are just questioning the value of the transfer and rightly so.

Ganymede Glow

If we get Pjanic we'd get Dzeko and Begovic

billymitchell

Blatter wrote: »

Who is writing him off though? People are just questioning the value of the transfer and rightly so.

Why does value come into it, he is either good enough or not

Blatter

billymitchell wrote: »

Why does value come into it, he is either good enough or not

Value always comes into the running of a business, especially when you have aspirations of competing with clubs that have much greater resources and pull than you do.

Turtyturd

Surely it's too soon to question it, at this stage he could well justify the fee, look like a bargain, or it could all go a bit Nani.

5starpool

billymitchell wrote: »

Why does value come into it, he is either good enough or not

Ah now surely you don't believe this?

Almost no one on here is writing him off. People saying they are are just being deliberately awkward.

Chucky the tree

noodler wrote: »

You seem to be suggesting it would be idiotic to accept a 20m bid for Lazar now if one were to miraculously materialise.

I disagree, we haven't seen nearly enough to think he will be an important player for us in the future or even claw back the majority of his transfer fee.

Early days of course, I wouldn't let him go for a song, I am just saying, would we still have bought him with the benefit of hindsight? (or even a little foresight!).

If I scouted him a lot before signing him then I wouldn't accept a £20m bid for him now. I think he's shown very good potential for someone who is 20. I think most people would put a £14m-£16m price tag on him. I'd be sick if the club sold him for less than £14m for example. So with that in mind if I saw a huge amount of him last year(like our scouts/committe did) then I wouldn't pass up on his potential for an extra £4-£6m.


In saying that I think he's one of the few players we signed in the summer who I wouldn't want changed. Lovern and Ballotelli are much easier decisions and no question would I want those wiped out.

Blatter

Turtyturd wrote: »

Surely it's too soon to question it, at this stage he could well justify the fee, look like a bargain, or it could all go a bit Nani.

If he could get to the level Nani did, a player with one of the best assist per minute ratios in PL history and a key figure in the 10/11 PL title win, he wouldn't be doing too badly!

K-9

billymitchell wrote: »

Why does value come into it, he is either good enough or not

Or maybe in the future, has potential, he's only 20 etc. etc.

Henderson wasn't worth £16/20 Million 3 years ago either.

LuckyLloyd

There has to be a certain amount of cognitive dissonance going on when we have people going:

- oh we need to keep our costs down and attain value. Can't make risks and shouldn't be dreaming about buying established players like Cavani;
- ah Markovic was pricey but it isn't his fault, he's only young and may come good in time. The fee doesn't matter really;

FSG have moved away from sanctioning big fees for established players. To be more precise, they are clearly unwilling to sanction transfers where the wage expectations are hefty. I've questioned the idealogy of that but if we leave it aside for a minute, the problem is that the deals they ARE willing to do don't represent good value. We're paying too much for players who can only contribute averagely or not at all in the short term. And, as I said recently, while the wages for Markovic are <<< Sanchez there's no doubt that we're paying >> what he should be getting paid or was getting paid at his previous club.

I don't think anyone can be happy with the club consistently achieving poor value in the market. We're pissing whatever resources we have down the drain. If we'd done our summer business like:

Markovic £8m
Lovren £10m
Lallana £14m
Lambert Free

It wouldn't irk me as much. The Balotelli deal is a different way of pissing resources down the drain - in so far as he's being left to rot on the bench until he moves on again. If the manager didn't want him (as he appears at pains to point out) he should never have been signed.

5starpool

Ya, the Balotelli thing is really annoying me. At least when Robbie Keane was signed against the managers wishes he still got quite a lot of playing time before he was shipped out too quickly. It's a fairly comparable situation though I think in terms of the manager at the time almost not wanting them to do well in some ways.

smileyj1987

5starpool wrote: »

Ya, the Balotelli thing is really annoying me. At least when Robbie Keane was signed against the managers wishes he still got quite a lot of playing time before he was shipped out too quickly. It's a fairly comparable situation though I think in terms of the manager at the time almost not wanting them to do well in some ways.

In fairness Robbie Keane sealed his own faith the night against athletico Madrid . Liverpool would have been gauranteed qualification if he had of just put the ball in the net and not tried to be so fancy about it .
You do things like that and rafa wants you gone .

K-9

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I don't think anyone can be happy with the club consistently achieving poor value in the market. We're pissing whatever resources we have down the drain. If we'd done our summer business like:

Markovic £8m
Lovren £10m
Lallana £14m
Lambert Free

Tbh, whatever we think about those players individually, they are prices clubs would have paid 4/5 years ago. Markovic was way over priced but given how Lovren and Lallana had played in the PL, I'd say £15/16 and £20 Million would be their market value.

Southampton upped the price and we paid top dollar.

It wouldn't irk me as much. The Balotelli deal is a different way of pissing resources down the drain - in so far as he's being left to rot on the bench until he moves on again. If the manager didn't want him (as he appears at pains to point out) he should never have been signed.

Mario seems like a committee gamble signing to me, which is grand, everybody agreed it was a gamble, some just thought it was unlikely to pay off.

There's way too many conflicting stories about transfers, who and how they buy players needs to be sorted quickly. Suarez, Coutinho and Sturridge bought them time but the record barring those is poor.

£19 Million would have got Bony, I wasn't totally convinced but spending £16 Million on a last minute Mario deal made no sense.

LuckyLloyd

K-9 wrote: »

Tbh, whatever we think about those players individually, they are prices clubs would have paid 4/5 years ago. Markovic was way over priced but given how Lovren and Lallana had played in the PL, I'd say £15/16 and £20 Million would be their market value.

Southampton upped the price and we paid top dollar.

When we should have walked away at those prices. £45m for Lovren and Lallana was ridiculous to be frank. When you do deals like that clubs drag you over hot coals the next time and so on. Was anyone else really in for Lallana at that price point?

K-9 wrote: »

Mario seems like a committee gamble signing to me, which is grand, everybody agreed it was a gamble, some just thought it was unlikely to pay off.

There's way too many conflicting stories about transfers, who and how they buy players needs to be sorted quickly. Suarez, Coutinho and Sturridge bought them time but the record barring those is poor.

£19 Million would have got Bony, I wasn't totally convinced but spending £16 Million on a last minute Mario deal made no sense.

I thought it would pay off and, to be fair, I've been proven completely wrong. I rated Balotelli and thought he would have a lot to offer in the right situation. Unfortunately this clearly isn't the right situation.

Of course I agree with you in that we can't be sure why the manager isn't playing him or whether he was against the deal, etc. But it certainly feels like he was written off a couple of months ago as an option in Rodger's mind.

Bony was available for £19m and now City are taking him a few months later for £30m. Feels like a missed opportunity.

Vicxas

Thats that then. Moving on.

segadreamcast

Vicxas wrote: »

Thats that then. Moving on.

Damn it. Really thought this one had a chance of happening.

K-9

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

When we should have walked away at those prices. £45m for Lovren and Lallana was ridiculous to be frank. When you do deals like that clubs drag you over hot coals the next time and so on. Was anyone else really in for Lallana at that price point?

I think there was interest but no anywhere near £25 Million!

I thought it would pay off and, to be fair, I've been proven completely wrong. I rated Balotelli and thought he would have a lot to offer in the right situation. Unfortunately this clearly isn't the right situation.

Of course I agree with you in that we can't be sure why the manager isn't playing him or whether he was against the deal, etc. But it certainly feels like he was written off a couple of months ago as an option in Rodger's mind.

Bony was available for £19m and now City are taking him a few months later for £30m. Feels like a missed opportunity.

I'd say Mario just doesn't suit our style, nobody seemed to have an understanding with him and you're left with the odd good pass or flick because it sticks out, you don't get anywhere near the fluidity between Sterling, Sturridge and Coutinho.

The only thing in his defence is he hasn't had a chance to get a partnership going with Sturridge, so we are back to the potential thing again! Because of the defensive frailties I don't think Rodgers will go with 2 up front, especially without Sturridge.

I don't think it is coincidence that we've played better without Balotelli and for that matter Lambert, not that we've excelled or anything, just improved.

5starpool

smileyj1987 wrote: »

In fairness Robbie Keane sealed his own faith the night against athletico Madrid . Liverpool would have been gauranteed qualification if he had of just put the ball in the net and not tried to be so fancy about it .
You do things like that and rafa wants you gone .

I was absolutely spitting chips at him when he tried that stupid backheel flick thing. We were 1-0 up at the time I think and ended up drawing?

noodler

5starpool wrote: »

Ya, the Balotelli thing is really annoying me. At least when Robbie Keane was signed against the managers wishes he still got quite a lot of playing time before he was shipped out too quickly. It's a fairly comparable situation though I think in terms of the manager at the time almost not wanting them to do well in some ways.

Yeah but Keane scored 7 goals and set up 5 in the same space of time.

Mario has been a complete waste of space as predicted.

Magico Gonzalez

Lallana looks like a 25m player to me, I'm confident that was a solid investment.

Lovren and Balotelli look like mistakes and Markowic may well come good but I think we needed someone who could have offered a more immediate impact.

Not buying Balotelli and lumping the Markowic fee in with his should have seen us compete for a decent striker.

I'd say were guilty of not being focused enough in our business.

garra

Morzadec wrote: »

If Markovic were a product of the youth team who was being tried in the first team, we'd all be saying it was too much too soon. And if we had to put a value on him it would be about 6m.

That's an indication of his performances so far. He could come good.

At the moment he lacks the physocal and mental maturity. A bit like Henderson in his early days. A bit of a scared lamb.

If he can make the turnaround Henderson did in these departments then we could be talking about a potentially good player, but that remains to be seen.

20m seems a bit crazy and more the targetting of a very young player in this position when we desperately needed a player of established quality

Yes I said the same about the Markovic deal at the time. We are on a hiding to nothing by paying so much for a player who MIGHT make a 1st team player, when we had 20M to lash out we should have been looking for the finished product. Its no reflection on Markovic, but a more reasonable price for a player of his POTENTIAL at the moment is around the 6-12M mark. Investing in potential is going to be the ruination of us (lol etc).

5starpool

noodler wrote: »

Yeah but Keane scored 7 goals and set up 5 in the same space of time.

Mario has been a complete waste of space as predicted.

He has not been near good enough, but he is a much better option when fit than Borini or Lambert and has not been used properly at all. I know he was out injured for a while, which is fair enough, but he has been unfairly scapegoated compared to the likes of the above generally, especially Lambert.

If we got rid of him and Borini and got in someone of the quality of even Bony I'd be happy enough, but when we have the options we have and he is unused a lot it pisses me off.

noodler

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

Lallana looks like a 25m player to me, I'm confident that was a solid investment.

Agreed on this.

I think Lallana has shown enough ability and end product for us to be happy with his signing (going forward at least).

Bandana boy

Rumours of Luis S not fitting in at Barca ,Any chance we get him back ?

noodler

Bandana boy wrote: »

Rumours of Luis S not fitting in at Barca ,Any chance we get him back ?

No.

We are crap.

Have no CL this season, next season, perhaps the season after.

Suarez does not have the years to waste even if we could afford him.

BUT...he won't be going anywhere imo.

~Rebel~

Y'know, ignoring prices, i'm happy with all the players we brought in, except Balotelli and Lovren.

Lovren obviously should have been a good signing, but for some reason has completely lost his head. Balotelli is especially annoying as everyone knows exactly what kind of player he is - if we were never going to play to his strengths, why bring him. Wouldn't even call it panic buying, just idiocy.

All of the others I quite like. The problem with some of them is that they should have been brought along with an older more experienced version of themselves. Markovic I don't actually have much concern over to be honest. He's already vastly better than his first few games for us, and grows in confidence by the day. The little 'round-the-corner' dinked first time ball for Henderson (i think) the other day is something he just wouldn't have tried back at the start. Have a Benfica supporting Portuguese friend who is adamant he'd have him back for the same price in a heartbeat. He's very confident the guy will be unbelievable, and worth twice the price within 3 years, so long as we just keep giving him games to adapt and improve (as he is showing plenty of signs of doing).

Really like the look of Can, Lallana obviously is a safer buy, and the two fullbacks have shown enough to be excited about - especially with a back 3.

The problem with the summer's buying, is that these guys should only have been part of it - we needed more on top, and if the money wasn't there, priorities should have been elsewhere. But aside from Lovren and to an extent Balotelli, at least we're not ending up with much in the way of dead-wood who don't provide anything at all, as we've fallen foul of so often in the past (Kenny's poorer buys especially).

billymitchell

5starpool wrote: »

Ah now surely you don't believe this?

Almost no one on here is writing him off. People saying they are are just being deliberately awkward.

I'm not writing him off at all, just saying the fee means jack when he is out there playing. Whether you pay nothing for a player or £50m for a player, if he gets you results, what does it matter?

Francie Barrett

Vicxas wrote: »

Thats that then. Moving on.

There was never anything to suggest we were in for Shaqiri.

Utopia Parkway

Bandana boy wrote: »

Rumours of Luis S not fitting in at Barca ,Any chance we get him back ?

Just paper talk. He's won't be going anywhere. The manager will be gone before any of their big players.

slingerz

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Just paper talk. He's won't be going anywhere. The manager will be gone before any of their big players.

The transfer ban will mean he stays anyway.

be some shot in the arm to announce Luis was coming back though

Vicxas

Francie Barrett wrote: »

There was never anything to suggest we were in for Shaqiri.

Oh i'm well aware, that was just to stop people going on about it.

~Rebel~

slingerz wrote: »

The transfer ban will mean he stays anyway.

Whats the story with that actually? Obviously players can't be stopped from leaving, as that's a breach of human rights and would be easily fought, but can they leave for a fee, or does it have to be a case of negotiating a mutual termination of the contract? (i.e a player buying themselves out, and being refunded by a buying club).

Sappy404

K-9 wrote: »

Tbh, whatever we think about those players individually, they are prices clubs would have paid 4/5 years ago. Markovic was way over priced but given how Lovren and Lallana had played in the PL, I'd say £15/16 and £20 Million would be their market value.

Southampton upped the price and we paid top dollar.



Mario seems like a committee gamble signing to me, which is grand, everybody agreed it was a gamble, some just thought it was unlikely to pay off.

There's way too many conflicting stories about transfers, who and how they buy players needs to be sorted quickly. Suarez, Coutinho and Sturridge bought them time but the record barring those is poor.

£19 Million would have got Bony, I wasn't totally convinced but spending £16 Million on a last minute Mario deal made no sense.

I think, objectively, one of the best young players in Europe for £20m and a striker with a checkered personal history but with an abundance of talent for £16m is decent business on paper, and the club's policy at present means they were right up our alley.

And less objectively, there were certainly more people in here unhappy with the prospect of Bony at £19m than there were Balotelli, especially after the price-tag was revealed.

Fact is though, with the benefit of hindsight, these and so many other transfers haven't met expectations, and one or two have been disastrous. The disparity between potential and actual performance has been massive in various cases, even with fully established players. You can piss and moan about the policies at the club being unsuitable, or that the scouting team and transfer committee aren't finding the right players. But the main factor over the last 5 windows is Rodgers. Whether he's the one picking out these lads, or if they're only failing at the club because he can't integrate or develop them, or if it's a bit of both, he has to take responsibility.

Sturridge and Coutinho are the only outright successes in his time so far at the club. Thats 2 out of 25 players. You might think it's harsh to include more recent signings who've looked useful like Can or Moreno, but the thing is none of them have held down a starting place. We were in a position last summer where we needed to spend the Suarez fee and the biggest share of TV money in the Premier League on our squad instead of an adequate replacement, and we're arguably as bad now squad-wise as we were last year when we had several loanees at the club - and Gerrard is going in 4 months.

Milkers

Liverpool this season when Balotelli starts:
2 Wins, 2 Draws, 6 Losses

When Balotelli doesn't start:
10 Wins, 5 Draws, 4 Losses


Yes it's terrible how such a valuable part of the team is being frozen out through pure spite by our stubborn small-minded manager.

5starpool

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Whats the story with that actually? Obviously players can't be stopped from leaving, as that's a breach of human rights and would be easily fought, but can they leave for a fee, or does it have to be a case of negotiating a mutual termination of the contract? (i.e a player buying themselves out, and being refunded by a buying club).

I'd be amazed if the transfer ban didn't only extend to them bringing players in, not selling them. There is no reason they can't sell players I'd say.

Connavar

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Whats the story with that actually? Obviously players can't be stopped from leaving, as that's a breach of human rights and would be easily fought, but can they leave for a fee, or does it have to be a case of negotiating a mutual termination of the contract? (i.e a player buying themselves out, and being refunded by a buying club).

I assume with the rumors of players leaving/being moved on from there (however far from the truth) they are able to sell

EDIT:
Looks like I assumed wrong
http://www.espnfc.com/blog/espn-fc-united-blog/68/post/2221035/barcelona-understanding-cas-ruling-and-the-violations-of-article-19-jake-cohen

JohnDaniels

No way though Barcelona would consider selling during the transfer ban while they can't replace him. Fingers crossed as if he did leave it won't be back to us.

brevity

Milkers wrote: »

Liverpool this season when Balotelli starts:
2 Wins, 2 Draws, 6 Losses

When Balotelli doesn't start:
10 Wins, 5 Draws, 4 Losses


Yes it's terrible how such a valuable part of the team is being frozen out through pure spite by our stubborn small-minded manager.

Ah here, that's a very simplistic view. We'd need to know who we played and what formations were used.

Mario has been a let down but that's predominantly due to him not being played with another striker. Rodgers not wanting him is another factor.

Had we played Gerrard closer to Balotelli in the opening games I think we would have got better results.

JohnDaniels

brevity wrote: »

Ah here, that's a very simplistic view. We'd need to know who we played and what formations were used.

Mario has been a let down but that's predominantly due to him not being played with another striker. Rodgers not wanting him is another factor.

Had we played Gerrard closer to Balotelli in the opening games I think we would have got better results.

You should take a look at our record with and without Suarez as pointed out by one of the rags today. Silly stats are silly

5starpool

brevity wrote: »

Ah here, that's a very simplistic view. We'd need to know who we played and what formations were used.

Mario has been a let down but that's predominantly due to him not being played with another striker. Rodgers not wanting him is another factor.

Had we played Gerrard closer to Balotelli in the opening games I think we would have got better results.

Ah no it's irrefutable evidence, much like last season when there were stats saying that we were a much better team when Suarez was missing than when he played.

That's worked out well for us.

garra

billymitchell wrote: »

Why does value come into it, he is either good enough or not

Think about it Billy- let me present an analogy if it is really puzzling for you. You have 30 grand to buy 2 cars for you and your wife. Your wife wants a 1 year old Opel Corsa and you get down to the garage and they are asking for 20 grand for it. After paying this you would have 10 grand for your own car.

Would value for money come into your decision making, or would you just pay the money to keep your wife happy, in the knowledge you will have less money to spend on another vital acquisition, ie your own car?

If we relate this fine example to LFC, Markovic is the 1 yo Corsa, we have paid the big lolly to acquire him, and we now have less money spend on other players. Make sense?

~Rebel~

5starpool wrote: »

Ah no it's irrefutable evidence, much like last season when there were stats saying that we were a much better team when Suarez was missing than when he played.

That's worked out well for us.

well, to be fair, those stats were in relation to Sturridge being up top on his own, so aren't relevant for this season.

Obviously it's silly anyway, but Sturridge has been nearly as big a loss as Suarez has.

smileyj1987

5starpool wrote: »

I was absolutely spitting chips at him when he tried that stupid backheel flick thing. We were 1-0 up at the time I think and ended up drawing?

From what I remember we where 1-0 up inside 10 minutes at the Vicente Calderon . It happened about the 15th minute of the game or so .

BenEadir

Francie Barrett wrote: »

I would be reacting badly too if the club I had been with for 20 years never bothered offering me a contract.

So the longer you're at the club the more entitled you are to a contract extension? By that logic no player would ever leave as they'd all be entitled to contact extensions once they enter the last year of their contact. We'd end up with a squad of OAP's FFS 😉

Augmerson

Olympiakos made a loan offer for Mario, 6 months.