Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014/15

Soft Falling Rain

I've said before and will do again: if Suso was good enough he would found his place in his team. It's as simple as that.

D'Agger

Does anybody see Suso leaving as a chance for Tex next season when he's back from his loan to Brighton.

Similar enough players

klose

D'Agger wrote: »

Does anybody see Suso leaving as a chance for Tex next season when he's back from his loan to Brighton.

Similar enough players

Yeah although tex must be what, 22 now?

D'Agger

klose wrote: »

Yeah although tex must be what, 22 now?

22 in 9 days, good call. I was under the impression he was 20 but he was out of the picture for a long while there with consistent back injuries. I didn't realise he was older than Suso

He seems to be doing okay for Brighton but he'd have been behind Suso in the pecking order I'd have thought and he's behind in his development if we're to compare to players of a similar age, namely Can, Manquillo, Flanagan, Moreno, Markovich

monkey9

There mightn't be much transfer activity in January, but at the same time I wouldn't want them going out buying just anyone for the sake of it. Sure imagine if we bought more sh!te, people who want signings in Jan would be moaning about that as well.

Harry Palmr

D'Agger wrote: »

Does anybody see Suso leaving as a chance for Tex next season when he's back from his loan to Brighton.

Similar enough players

I'd like to think so but probably not - Luis Alberto is playing and contributing in a much better team and I doubt he'll be back.

Indeed Liverpool will have a pile up of attacking midfielders in the next few years - Ibe, Sterling, Lallana, Coutinho, Markovic, Wilson, Ojo, Kent, Canos, Dunn.

D'Agger

Harry Palmr wrote: »

I'd like to think so but probably not - Luis Alberto is playing and contributing in a much better team and I doubt he'll be back.

Indeed Liverpool will have a pile up of attacking midfielders in the next few years - Ibe, Sterling, Lallana, Coutinho, Markovic, Wilson, Ojo, Kent, Canos, Dunn.

I'd forgotten about Alberto & his fantastic pass to Suarez for his chip over Lloris last season at WHL

You think he'll be shipped off Mike?

I know there's doubts over his pace but he does look a talent. Would certainly have no qualms over him being given a shot with more game time

Boom_Bap

D'Agger wrote: »

I'd forgotten about Alberto & his fantastic pass to Suarez for his chip over Lloris last season at WHL

You think he'll be shipped off Mike?

I know there's doubts over his pace but he does look a talent. Would certainly have no qualms over him being given a shot with more game time

I thought there were rumbling of Alberto having off the field issues that were starting to drift into or effect his behaviour in training.

D'Agger

Boom_Bap wrote: »

I thought there were rumbling of Alberto having off the field issues that were starting to drift into or effect his behaviour in training.

While on loan or while he was at LFC? I know there were reports of homesickness when in Liverpool

Harry Palmr

D'Agger wrote: »

I'd forgotten about Alberto & his fantastic pass to Suarez for his chip over Lloris last season at WHL

You think he'll be shipped off Mike?

I know there's doubts over his pace but he does look a talent. Would certainly have no qualms over him being given a shot with more game time

When he signed I predicted big things for him which shows what I know . Of course he was rather unlucky as he really wasn't that needed so didn't get the game time to become effective and stake a place, I suspect he'll do well enough to keep Malaga happy esp if they finish in a European Spot - they are currently just 4 points off 4th place and certainly look like good value for an EL finish.

SlickRic

BenEadir wrote: »

So bringing in a load of players in the summer is the cause of disruption to the team as they settle in and get to know how to play with each other and the solution to that problem is...........bring in even more players???

The "players need time to gel" thing is a bit of a myth.

Sanchez has had no problem.

Fabregas and Costa have had no problems.

Di Maria has had no problem.

Hell, Sakho has had no problem at West Ham.

"Needing to gel" is a very easy excuse.

Sir Gallagher

D'Agger wrote: »

While on loan or while he was at LFC? I know there were reports of homesickness when in Liverpool

Wasnt he done for drink driving or something?

Boom_Bap

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

Wasnt he done for drink driving or something?

At LFC.....Yeah there was something like that. It was tied to something else though.....using my terrible memory it may have been something to do with nightlife and casinos. I could be waaaay off on this.

I'd still love to see him get a shot with us. Relaxed on the ball and has lovely control over how he uses the ball. I'd say his lack of pressing may hold him back.

Harry Palmr

SlickRic wrote: »

The "players need time to gel" thing is a bit of a myth.

Sanchez has had no problem.

Fabregas and Costa have had no problems.

Di Maria has had no problem.

Hell, Sakho has had no problem at West Ham.

"Needing to gel" is a very easy excuse.

While De Gea struggled, Mertasacker struggled, Suarez struggled (remember how he was being talked about as a scorer of great goals but not a great goal-scorer?), Crouch struggled (;)) Podolski struggled, Solardo struggled

NyOmnishambles

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Echo reporting Liverpool are unlikely to do much business in January.

Borini still reluctant to leave apparently.

Lambert won't be sold in January.

Still talking to Lille over Origi.

Mr Alan wrote: »

LOL

Galvanised!

Sappy404

SlickRic wrote: »

The "players need time to gel" thing is a bit of a myth.

Sanchez has had no problem.

Fabregas and Costa have had no problems.

Di Maria has had no problem.

Hell, Sakho has had no problem at West Ham.

"Needing to gel" is a very easy excuse.

You're talking about individuals. Usually when they don't work out immediately it's, "he needs time to settle in". "Time to gel" is rolled out when a team signs several players.

Kirby

Harry Palmr wrote: »

While De Gea struggled, Mertasacker struggled, Suarez struggled (remember how he was being talked about as a scorer of great goals but not a great goal-scorer?), Crouch struggled (;)) Podolski struggled, Solardo struggled

De Gea was a child both mentally and physically. Once he buffed up in the gym, things became easier for him.

Mertesacker struggled because he isn't a very good player. He is still struggling several years later. All the "gelling" in the world wont help him.

Suarez didn't struggle. He adapted well to England. He was missing a lot of chances but his overall performances were fine.

Crouch has never been a prolific scorer anywhere he has been and he's English so I'm not sure what he's doing in the list.

Podolski didn't struggle. He scored goals when he was picked.....which wasn't a lot and when he did play it was out of position. This one is on Wenger.

I'll give you Soldado. He has struggled hugely and needs to get away from White Hart Lane as quickly as possible to save his career.

The point is, if you are good enough you will succeed no matter where you go and the majority of players don't need years to show this.

Sir Gallagher

Solardo lol

ynwa_17

Kirby wrote: »

De Gea was a child both mentally and physically. Once he buffed up in the gym, things became easier for him.

Mertesacker struggled because he isn't a very good player. He is still struggling several years later. All the "gelling" in the world wont help him.

Suarez didn't struggle. He adapted well to England. He was missing a lot of chances but his overall performances were fine.

Crouch has never been a prolific scorer anywhere he has been and he's English so I'm not sure what he's doing in the list.

Podolski didn't struggle. He scored goals when he was picked.....which wasn't a lot and when he did play it was out of position. This one is on Wenger.

I'll give you Soldado. He has struggled hugely and needs to get away from White Hart Lane as quickly as possible to save his career.

The point is, if you are good enough you will succeed no matter where you go and the majority of players don't need years to show this.

Not necessarily true. Sometimes you have to consider the style of play of the team doesn't suit the player or the pace of the game in England etc.

Diego Forlan is a perfect example of someone who struggled in England and ended up being one of the best strikers in Spain, maybe even Europe over a 6-8 year period

gafferino

Was probably posted yesterday but didnt see it. Coutinho got player of the month for December.

I think his displays the last few weeks have been very good. If he can get some composure in front of goal and add a bit of strength he could be world class.

D'Agger

gafferino wrote: »

Was probably posted yesterday but didnt see it. Coutinho got player of the month for December.

I think his displays the last few weeks have been very good. If he can get some composure in front of goal and add a bit of strength he could be world class.

His problem is consistency, I thought he was shocking against Wimbeldon in the first half, the game against Swansea he was immense, about as good as I've seen him this year really

Kirby

Kirby wrote: »

....................
I'll give you Soldado. He has struggled hugely and needs to get away from White Hart Lane as quickly as possible to save his career.

The point is, if you are good enough you will succeed no matter where you go and the majority of players don't need years to show this.

Baffling statements

Kirby

You didn't read them correctly and bolded the wrong bits. Kind of like "Wrong emphasis man". You can't just take sections of a sentence and ignore the rest. The rest matters. The "If you are good enough" bits of the sentence help form it.

I'll repeat them and perhaps this time you can see your mistake.

If you are good enough you will succeed wherever you go.
Soldado needs to leave Spurs to save his career.

Ergo? He isn't good enough for the level he is at. It's simple this logic lark.

Blatter

Kirby wrote: »

You didn't read them correctly and bolded the wrong bits. Kind of like "Wrong emphasis man". You can't just take sections of a sentence and ignore the rest. The rest matters. The "If you are good enough" bits of the sentence help form it.

I'll repeat them and perhaps this time you can see your mistake.

If you are good enough you will succeed wherever you go.
Soldado needs to leave Spurs to save his career.

Ergo? He isn't good enough for the level he is at. It's simple this logic lark.

Presumably you didn't think Veron was 'good enough' for United then?

Sometimes players just don't work out at clubs or take a while to click, for any number of reasons.

Ozil has struggled badly to replicate his Madrid form at Arsenal too and it's not because he isn't good enough, he clearly is.

Kirby

Blatter wrote: »

Ozil has struggled badly to replicate his Madrid form at Arsenal too and it's not because he isn't good enough, he clearly is.

It might be because he's injured a lot. And when he was fit, Wenger was playing him out wide.....which is not his best position.

And in fairness, please stop putting words in my mouth. I didn't say, "if you are good enough you will score 100 goals a season and win the ballon d'or no matter where you go." I said you will succeed.

5starpool

Augeo wrote: »

What's with the apologists rubbish?
And what decline are you referring to? 15 points from 24 since corner was turned in the PL

I've seen this mentioned before.

If, and that's a big if, we maintain the form of the last 8 games over the rest of the season, we'll end up on about 62 points or so. Where does the corner turning bring us? What about if we underperform a bit on that and end on 58 points? It's all very depressing.

Despite some better performances in recent weeks we are still nowhere near the level of last season and as likely to put in an abysmal performance (Leicester at home) as a decent one (Swansea at home).

Blatter

Kirby wrote: »

It might be because he's injured a lot. And when he was fit, Wenger was playing him out wide.....which is not his best position.

And in fairness, please stop putting words in my mouth. I didn't say, "if you are good enough you will score 100 goals a season and win the ballon d'or no matter where you go." I said you will succeed.

Ozil often played wide for Madrid and played very well. He's played nearly 50 games for Arsenal, many of them in central positions, yet still hasn't looked right.

Not sure where you're going with the 'putting words in my mouth, ballon d'or' stuff, none of that was said or even suggested. I was simply arguing against your assertion that a player will succeed anywhere if he's good enough, no more or no less.

You failed to address the Veron point btw.

Kirby

5starpool wrote: »

I've seen this mentioned before.

If, and that's a big if, we maintain the form of the last 8 games over the rest of the season, we'll end up on about 62 points or so. Where does the corner turning bring us? What about if we underperform a bit on that and end on 58 points? It's all very depressing.

Despite some better performances in recent weeks we are still nowhere near the level of last season and as likely to put in an abysmal performance (Leicester at home) as a decent one (Swansea at home).

Having a striker with a bit of pace back will help that. Isn't Sturridge nearly fit?

Liverpool are unlikely to make the top 4 at this stage, but even so I would wager the second half of the season will be better than the first.

Blatter wrote: »

You failed to address the Veron point btw.

I didn't feel it needed addressing. It was a poor example chosen by you if I'm honest. I never thought he was that good in the first place and wasn't surprised that he had an average time in England.

Ibra at Barca would have been a much more potent choice. But you chose Veron so I just shrugged my shoulders and moved on.

Blatter

Kirby wrote: »

I didn't feel it needed addressing. It was a poor example chosen by you if I'm honest. I never thought he was that good in the first place and wasn't surprised that he had an average time in England.

Ibra at Barca would have been a much more potent choice. But you chose Veron so I just shrugged my shoulders and moved on.

Nah Veron was top class in a very strong Italian league before he moved to United. It's poor judgement to think otherwise.

Ibra at Barca is another one. Well done on giving a good example of a player that completely contradicts your original statement. Forlan was another already mentioned.

Bandana boy

Blatter wrote: »

Nah Veron was top class in a very strong Italian league before he moved to United. It's poor judgement to think otherwise.

Ibra at Barca is another one. Well done on giving a good example of a player that completely contradicts your original statement. Forlan was another already mentioned.

Many many players took time to settle at a new club and went on to be great players

Henri at Arsenal and Ian Rush at Liverpool to name two off the top of my head

Blatter

Bandana boy wrote: »

Many many players took time to settle at a new club and went on to be great players

Henri at Arsenal and Ian Rush at Liverpool to name two off the top of my head

Yep, as I alluded to a few posts back.

Kirby

Blatter wrote: »

Nah Veron was top class in a very strong Italian league before he moved to United. It's poor judgement to think otherwise.

Ibra at Barca is another one. Well done on giving a good example of a player that completely contradicts your original statement. Forlan was another already mentioned.

Well seeing as it was my example, I may as well comment on it....because it doesn't contradict anything, despite what you claim.

Ibra was successful at Barca, even though he wasn't there for very long. He just wasn't liked and that was the problem.

He was good enough for them. Perhaps he wasn't modest enough.

Blatter

Kirby wrote: »

Well seeing as it was my example, I may as well comment on it....because it doesn't contradict anything, despite what you claim.

Ibra was successful at Barca, even though he wasn't there for very long. He just wasn't liked and that was the problem.

He was good enough for them. Perhaps he wasn't modest enough.

He was alright for them at times, particularly at the start when he banged in a few goals but it was obvious he wasn't a right fit for them. I certainly wouldn't class him as a success there.

It's silly to claim a player will be a success somewhere as long as they're good enough. Transfers don't work out all the time for numerous reasons and it's not necessarily because the player wasn't good enough.

JohnDaniels

Get a room lads.

Charlie19

D'Agger wrote: »

His problem is consistency, I thought he was shocking against Wimbeldon in the first half, the game against Swansea he was immense, about as good as I've seen him this year really

I wouldn't use wimbeldon as an example, that pitch was dreadful. While I do agree that he could be more consistent, but the few moments he has in a game warrants his place. If we could ad a cm that can run and go past players with the ball like Couthinio, we doing all right.

If he could just chip in with a few goals, every top club would be in for him.

D'Agger

Charlie19 wrote: »

I wouldn't use wimbeldon as an example, that pitch was dreadful. While I do agree that he could be more consistent, but the few moments he has in a game warrants his place. If we could ad a cm that can run and go past players with the ball like Couthinio, we doing all right.

If he could just chip in with a few goals, every top club would be in for him.

The pitch wasn't bad - that's a kop out tbh, he just wasn't at the races, you could see he was trying to get into the game but it wasn't happening for him.

If he adds goals we're laughing, his dribbling and passing are already top notch. I think Can could be the CM who can drive past players - in the same vein as Yaya & Matic - he has the potential certainly

mav79

Would love to see Couthino played as a central midielder with Lucas and Henderson in the same diamond formation that was used last year. A front three of pacy players like Sterling, Markovic, Sturridge or even Borini would get the best out of him imo. I always feel Couthino is hampered playing with static forwards like Balotelli and Lambert. He collects the ball deep goes past a couple of players and there is no one in space to pass to.

8-10

Kirby wrote: »

Isn't Sturridge nearly fit?

Perennially!

K-9

Sappy404 wrote: »

I think, objectively, one of the best young players in Europe for £20m and a striker with a checkered personal history but with an abundance of talent for £16m is decent business on paper, and the club's policy at present means they were right up our alley.

And less objectively, there were certainly more people in here unhappy with the prospect of Bony at £19m than there were Balotelli, especially after the price-tag was revealed.

I wasn't overly impressed with Bony either but I think the timing played a big part in peoples opinions. Bony was targeted early in the window so people thought we could better, which is fair enough.

There was a tinge of desperation about Mario with the time running out and most of our business done. Put it this way, I think there'd have been a harsher reaction if we'd signed Mario in June! Optimism and desperation played a part in us wanting to believe it was a good signing.

Magico Gonzalez

mav79 wrote: »

Would love to see Couthino played as a central midielder with Lucas and Henderson in the same diamond formation that was used last year. A front three of pacy players like Sterling, Markovic, Sturridge or even Borini would get the best out of him imo. I always feel Couthino is hampered playing with static forwards like Balotelli and Lambert. He collects the ball deep goes past a couple of players and there is no one in space to pass to.

Lambert and Balotelli were inexplicably buys given the system we were playing.

Total madness, completely broke our system and must go down as a terrible mistake by the committee to buy them and then the mgr to consistently pick them.

Have seen nothing in Borini's movement to suggest he is an awful lot better.

Luap

D'Agger wrote: »

His problem is consistency, I thought he was shocking against Wimbeldon in the first half, the game against Swansea he was immense, about as good as I've seen him this year really

Big game player.

Wimbledon pffft.

rob316

Hope we see this soon and for the rest of the season. Sorely missed

K-9

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Yeah, our squad just needs some time to gel. I'm sure they'll be firing on all cylinders by April and we'll enjoy a glorious last few weeks to the season. Can't wait.

Some seemed happy enough with that in Kennys last few months.

LuckyLloyd

K-9 wrote: »

Some seemed happy enough with that in Kennys last few months.

Two Cup Finals brother. If Rodgers gets two cup finals he can have another year imo.

mav79

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

Lambert and Balotelli were inexplicably buys given the system we were playing.

Total madness, completely broke our system and must go down as a terrible mistake by the committee to buy them and then the mgr to consistently pick them.

Have seen nothing in Borini's movement to suggest he is an awful lot better.

I don't think Borini is good enough for Liverpool, I'd put him in the same bracket of players as Shane Long. But he definitely makes a lot more runs down the flanks compared to Lambert which would suit playing with Couthino. Lambert might be a better player than Borini in some systems but I don't think Couthino works with Lambert at all.

rob316

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Two Cup Finals brother. If Rodgers gets two cup finals he can have another year imo.

He took us from 7th to 2nd in the league, almost won it. By that token doesn't Rodgers deserve time.

rob316

mav79 wrote: »

I don't think Borini is good enough for Liverpool, I'd put him in the same bracket of players as Shane Long. But he definitely makes a lot more runs down the flanks compared to Lambert which would suit playing with Couthino. Lambert might be a better player than Borini in some systems but I don't think Couthino works with Lambert at all.

None of them are good enough which is why the clamour for Rodgers to play with strikers is baffling. Borini and Lambert to me is like do I want a kick in the balls or the face.

LuckyLloyd

rob316 wrote: »

He took us from 7th to 2nd in the league, almost won it. By that token doesn't Rodgers deserve time.

If we regress to less than 60 points with consistently poor performances and he busts out of Europe again and doesn't push through in a domestic cup I'm not sure he would tbh.

mav79

rob316 wrote: »

None of them are good enough which is why the clamour for Rodgers to play with strikers is baffling. Borini and Lambert to me is like do I want a kick in the balls or the face.

Completely agree, my point was in regards to why Couthino looks poor in some games and very good in others. If there are players making runs he looks good but with static strikers you are taking away one of the best parts of Couthino's game.

Magico Gonzalez

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Two Cup Finals brother. If Rodgers gets two cup finals he can have another year imo.

Thankfully you won't be making that decision...