Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014/15

S. Goodspeed

5starpool wrote: »

It's not just that though. I remember being at games at the end of Rafa's time (I didn't go under Hodgson) and Torres was visibly not trying very hard. He strolled around and walked with his head down and was getting quite a bit of stick from the crowd at times for it. It's the lack of effort that people are crucifying Balotelli for, but Mario is displaying more effort with us than Torres did in his last 12 months at the club a lot of the time.

I think his head and possibly legs were beginning to go at that stage. He was still better for us in those last few months than he ever was for Chelsea.

J Mysterio

Yeah Torres was brilliant for us but he shouldn't have left and especially not to Chelsea. We were going places with him and he was disrespectful in the end. He should have left England if he didnt see a future with trophies.at Liverpool. Most of the top clubs in Europe would have been happy to take him.

The argument where 'players are just guys doing a job' annoys me. It's football. Its a sport with massively intense supporters and global viewerships with huge marketing and branding. Its not like he was working in McDonalds and got headhunted to go to Google. People generally dont have your poster if youre a Google executive and they dont sing songs about you.

He wasnt just a guy doing a job, he was a Kop idol who was treated like a king. His career progressed here and he went from 'promising young player/ real prospect' to 'top player'.

He broke hearts when he went to Chelsea to be just another player in an Oligarch's squad. Off to get his medals. They would have meant a hell of a lot more at Liverpool. I'm sure he regrets his decision.

J Mysterio

S. Goodspeed wrote: »

I think his head and possibly legs were beginning to go at that stage. He was still better for us in those last few months than he ever was for Chelsea.

If his legs were perceptibly going Chelsea wouldnt have broken the transfer record to get him.

I think his leaving for Chelsea affected his spirit and pride.

T-K-O

Torres was never the same after the euros, didn't he play injured? Anyway that was the beginning of the end.

looder

J Mysterio wrote: »

Yeah Torres was brilliant for us but he shouldn't have left and especially not to Chelsea. We were going places with him and he was disrespectful in the end. He should have left England if he didnt see a future with trophies.at Liverpool. Most of the top clubs in Europe would have been happy to take him.

The argument where 'players are just guys doing a job' annoys me. It's football. Its a sport with massively intense supporters and global viewerships with huge marketing and branding. Its not like he was working in McDonalds and got headhunted to go to Google. People generally dont have your poster if youre a Google executive and they dont sing songs about you.

He wasnt just a guy doing a job, he was a Kop idol who was treated like a king. His career progressed here and he went from 'promising young player/ real prospect' to 'top player'.

He broke hearts when he went to Chelsea to be just another player in an Oligarch's squad. Off to get his medals. They would have meant a hell of a lot more at Liverpool. I'm sure he regrets his decision.

I'd argue that we were disrespectful to El Nino.

No World Class player should ever have to endure the bollox that comes out of Roy Hodgsons mouth in a dressing room.

We sold 3 or 4 top players and brought in ****e. You couldn't expect the man to stay in those circumstances.

He's my favourite Liverpool player of all time, ahead of Gerrard, even.

gafferino

NukaCola wrote: »

I really wouldn't. One of the most over rated players in the EPL. As effective as Shelvey is although he is an all round better player. Cant understand the hype around him. Wouldn't get into our best 11.

Hmm dont agree. I think he will be a much better player than Shelvey. Lacks consistency but for me has shown there is something there. Only 21 so should develop a lot more. Seems to be quite injury prone which may have an impact.

J Mysterio

looder wrote: »

I'd argue that we were disrespectful to El Nino.

No World Class player should ever have to endure the bollox that comes out of Roy Hodgsons mouth in a dressing room.

We sold 3 or 4 top players and brought in ****e. You couldn't expect the man to stay in those circumstances.

He's my favourite Liverpool player of all time, ahead of Gerrard, even.

It was Benitez who had the genius to unsettle Alonso in pursuit of Barry.

LuckyLloyd

J Mysterio wrote: »

Yeah Torres was brilliant for us but he shouldn't have left and especially not to Chelsea. We were going places with him and he was disrespectful in the end. He should have left England if he didnt see a future with trophies.at Liverpool. Most of the top clubs in Europe would have been happy to take him.

Not in 2010 we weren't. We also weren't competing with Chelsea in the league at that point unfortunately. At the precise moment he left we were closer to relegation than fourth place and were crossing our fingers for Kenny to get us going again.

J Mysterio wrote: »

The argument where 'players are just guys doing a job' annoys me. It's football. Its a sport with massively intense supporters and global viewerships with huge marketing and branding. Its not like he was working in McDonalds and got headhunted to go to Google. People generally dont have your poster if youre a Google executive and they dont sing songs about you.

He wasnt just a guy doing a job, he was a Kop idol who was treated like a king. His career progressed here and he went from 'promising young player/ real prospect' to 'top player'.

Players are entitled to win though, and the ambition that drove him to Chelsea (and he had many games at Chelsea where he ran himself into the ground making up for his diminishing skills and bankrupt confidence don't forget) is what made him so devastating for us when we were slicing Madrid and Utd open in March 2009.

Some athletes have a sense of their own mortality. It seems like yesterday he left Liverpool doesn't it? When he left it was like he had years and years ahead of him. Now he's gone back to Athletico to retire. Those were his years to win the big trophies and Liverpool didn't offer him the opportunity to do so. He won two major trophies.

J Mysterio wrote: »

He broke hearts when he went to Chelsea to be just another player in an Oligarch's squad. Off to get his medals. They would have meant a hell of a lot more at Liverpool. I'm sure he regrets his decision.

You make it out like those medals didn't have to be won. Any of the Chelsea men on the pitch at the Nou Camp in 2012 had to dig, fight and claw for every ball in order to get the win. I'm tired of people whining about Abramovich's money tbh. He's stuck in there for over a decade now and the team he built was tough as old boots.

As to whether he regrets the move? He'll retire having won a glut of major trophies and having been in and around the greatest International team of all time. The club sacked the manager that brought him to the club and replaced him with a Neanderthal; lost Alonso and Arbeloa to Real Madrid; lost Masch to Barcelona and bought the likes of Konchesky and Paulson in as a replacement. Like it or lump it, the club have to play their part in supporting world class players by investing in proven talent and complimenting their skills appropriately. We didn't do that and Torres made an utterly correct decision based on the facts at that time and the relative trajectories of each club since the transfer.

LuckyLloyd

J Mysterio wrote: »

It was Benitez who had the genius to unsettle Alonso in pursuit of Barry.

Alonso was, to be frank, average in 2007 / 8. I'd argue that Benitez lit a fire under him that helped to produce his brilliance from 2008 on. Real weren't in for him the summer before don't forget.

Chucky the tree

NukaCola wrote: »

I really wouldn't. One of the most over rated players in the EPL. As effective as Shelvey is although he is an all round better player. Cant understand the hype around him. Wouldn't get into our best 11.

I agree. If Can was English the hype train would be in flow flow based solely on his last few games.

J Mysterio

I partly agree but he should not have went to Chelsea. As I said, most of the top.European clubs would have been happy to take him.

ThunbergsAreGo

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I agree. If Can was English the hype train would be in flow flow based solely on his last few games.

I Constantly forget how young he is! Assume he is 25+ becasue of how hes built

murpho999

Torres arrived in great form and made an almost immediate impact and then just got better and better.

Sturridge is fantastic but he does not excite me the way an on form Torres did.

Torres' goal threat was second to none and he could score all types of goals which puts him ahead of Sturridge in my opinion.

Awful pity how he left under a cloud and how his powers have deteriorated. Shadow of the player he was, so Liverpool got the best out of him.

5starpool

naughtb4 wrote: »

I Constantly forget how young he is! Assume he is 25+ becasue of how hes built

21 today. Is he going to be converted into a centre back for us full time I wonder (I know he has played there a bit in the past)? It's also strange that Rodgers chose to put him on the right yesterday instead of a more central role where he'd have more experience and presumably he would have been primarily bought for.

Chucky the tree

5starpool wrote: »

21 today. Is he going to be converted into a centre back for us full time I wonder (I know he has played there a bit in the past)? It's also strange that Rodgers chose to put him on the right yesterday instead of a more central role where he'd have more experience and presumably he would have been primarily bought for.

I'm wondering if he's showing are the reason we could be happy to let Lucas go. Still nuts if we do let him go this January though.

K-9

J Mysterio wrote: »

Yeah Torres was brilliant for us but he shouldn't have left and especially not to Chelsea. We were going places with him and he was disrespectful in the end. He should have left England if he didnt see a future with trophies.at Liverpool. Most of the top clubs in Europe would have been happy to take him.

He'd stuck around for at least one season based on false promises from the H&G regime.

He'd done more than enough for us for a player who, for all we knew, was going to hit his peak.

With the benefit of hindsight, it worked out fine for us, and he got to play CL football and get his medal, something we couldn't offer him.

J Mysterio

murpho999 wrote: »

Torres arrived in great form and made an almost immediate impact and then just got better and better.

Sturridge is fantastic but he does not excite me the way an on form Torres did.

Torres' goal threat was second to none and he could score all types of goals which puts him ahead of Sturridge in my opinion.

Awful pity how he left under a cloud and how his powers have deteriorated. Shadow of the player he was, so Liverpool got the best out of him.

Sturridge is more skillful and can hold up the ball and dance with it - Torres didn't have that - with Torres he would score or lose the ball.

I also dont agree Torres would score all types of goals. Most of his were being on the defenders shoulder, getting past him on a through ball and passing the ball into the net. Sturridge scores from inside and outside the box and is less predictable. I'm not saying that Torres predictability meant it was easy to stop him however (when he was in his form years).

Agree with first and last paragraph.

5starpool

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I'm wondering if he's showing are the reason we could be happy to let Lucas go. Still nuts if we do let him go this January though.

Considering he must have less than 200 minutes playing for us in the position that Lucas occupies it would be incredibly short sighted indeed. He has played fairly well overall but not that much game time really. Saying he looks anything other than promising still is overstating things.

J Mysterio

Can looks really good but we still need Lucas and his experience. It would be totally naive to move him on.

segadreamcast

Torres shouldn't have left? Jesus wept. It was clear as day at WC 2010 that there was something going awry with Torres, and I'm glad he left when he did: we would've been left with a complete lemon of a player on our hands and would likely have sold him at the end of the 11/12 season for about 20m having tried to unsuccessfully combine him with Suarez.

He was a man in undeniable decline, had lost his pace, continuously got frustrated on the pitch for us in the final few months. It's an absolute nonsense to say he shouldn't have left, or that he would've maintained his form in LFC red: he had already lost that form in my opinion, and it was a great bit of business to get 50m for him at that moment in time. The only shame about the whole thing was bringing Carroll in who, while he wasn't terrible, made little sense with Suarez and was at most a 15m£ player. But that's life, and we also got Suarez.

Francie Barrett

J Mysterio wrote: »

If his legs were perceptibly going Chelsea wouldnt have broken the transfer record to get him.

Don't know about that. Apparently the MilanLab knew Shevchenko's legs were gone when they flogged him to Chelsea for loadsamoney.

http://www.meerssemanlab.com/Meersseman_Lab/Inside_AC_Milan_Lab.html
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/feb/16/milan-lab-premier-league

5starpool

The above graph is taken from the swiss ramble and their latest feature on Chelsea turning a profit here.

Our 2014 figures are not in there yet, but it really does show what we all knew in that our revenue may be growing but our outlay on wages is flatlining. With Gerrard, Johnson and possibly Lucas joining Agger, Reina and Suarez on the way out I can't see it increasing in the next couple of years either.

While the club obviously have to be mindful of FFP (hopefully the investigation will find us not in breach as the post yesterday indicated it should) and fluctuating income due to unlikely European income, we seem to be cementing our place as the best of the rest in terms of wage spenders.

Some of the expensive names that went out above are fine and normal as players get older, but at the start of next season as things stand our biggest earners will be Sturridge, Sterling and Henderson assuming the latter 2 sign new deals as expected. It's not a huge problem yet but it has the makings of a trend.

Magico Gonzalez

5starpool wrote: »

The above graph is taken from the swiss ramble and their latest feature on Chelsea turning a profit here.

Our 2014 figures are not in there yet, but it really does show what we all knew in that our revenue may be growing but our outlay on wages is flatlining. With Gerrard, Johnson and possibly Lucas joining Agger, Reina and Suarez on the way out I can't see it increasing in the next couple of years either.

While the club obviously have to be mindful of FFP (hopefully the investigation will find us not in breach as the post yesterday indicated it should) and fluctuating income due to unlikely European income, we seem to be cementing our place as the best of the rest in terms of wage spenders.

Some of the expensive names that went out above are fine and normal as players get older, but at the start of next season as things stand our biggest earners will be Sturridge, Sterling and Henderson assuming the latter 2 sign new deals as expected. It's not a huge problem yet but it has the makings of a trend.

Looks like the lads at Arsenal sat down and decided to spend enough to finish 4th every year!

Dickerty

Just watched the highlights from the U18s tourno in Indonesia, they were very decent considering how many players didn't travel. Phillips, Wilson and Canos still a cut above the rest.

Good form overall, after the win over Basel to put them through, and still in the Youth Cup...

Dickerty

J Mysterio wrote: »

Can looks really good but we still need Lucas and his experience. It would be totally naive to move him on.

Rodgers has given him enough minutes to show that he relies on him, and with Stevie leaving, would make NO sense to move on our only other experienced CM (Allen doesn't count, he features so rarely).

And the results don't lie, he has allowed Stevie to get further forward, and he's gotten in around the box much more...

Francie Barrett

That blog is excellent, really is a must read for all football fans (even if it is a little unfortunate that football itself has just become a numbers game).

What the numbers say is that if you want to be successful in football, then what you need to be doing is growing commercial revenue. TV money is pretty much the same for all clubs, matchday revenue doesn't vary massively - what really separates clubs and their financial power is commercial revenue. With that in mind, I wonder when Anfield is redeveloped, would we consider naming rights on the stadium. My thoughts would be why not. Anfield is a venerable ground, but let's be honest, it's a dump. If we're going to redevelop the place, we might as well rename it and pocket a load of cash.

Harry Palmr

There's only one way to decide

Lille President Reiterates Liverpool Striker Divock Origi To Stay Put Inside Futbol 14:22

Warnock on his way to Derby To Ell And Back.org 14:20
Divock Origi 99% likely to join Liverpool THIS month Daily Star 14:19

Harry Palmr

Francie Barrett wrote: »

With that in mind, I wonder when Anfield is redeveloped, would we consider naming rights on the stadium. My thoughts would be why not. Anfield is a venerable ground, but let's be honest, it's a dump. If we're going to redevelop the place, we might as well rename it and pocket a load of cash.

Anfield will never be renamed but the new stands will be I'm sure.

SlickRic

we do realise Torres was pretty much the best number 9 in world football for a while with us, yeah?

i rate Sturridge very highly, but he's not in that league yet.

ok then, any excuse for this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1osDX1qlSlI

Seamu$

J Mysterio wrote: »

Can looks really good but we still need Lucas and his experience. It would be totally naive to move him on.

#Chandsome

Leslie91

Can is only 21 today. F me.

I was at the match Saturday I thought he looked great and was playing in 2 different positions 1st and 2nd half. Going forward as a 3rd centre half he looked really good. I think his future is in midfield though.

Coutinho a class apart in 1st half in particular...

Markovic, good movement but not sure about him as a defending wing back. Have not seen a replay of peno claim but looked like it was one to me live.

The sooner someone gives us anything for Lovren the better, he is hopeless.

5starpool

Francie Barrett wrote: »

That blog is excellent, really is a must read for all football fans (even if it is a little unfortunate that football itself has just become a numbers game).

What the numbers say is that if you want to be successful in football, then what you need to be doing is growing commercial revenue. TV money is pretty much the same for all clubs, matchday revenue doesn't vary massively - what really separates clubs and their financial power is commercial revenue. With that in mind, I wonder when Anfield is redeveloped, would we consider naming rights on the stadium. My thoughts would be why not. Anfield is a venerable ground, but let's be honest, it's a dump. If we're going to redevelop the place, we might as well rename it and pocket a load of cash.

On commercial revenue FSG have really got us moving in the right direction and we are similar to Arsenal and Chelsea in that regard now I think. However, while there is not a lot of growth potential year on year on matchday revenue we are well behind the top few clubs on that score. European games will help this season, and the extra revenue from premium and commercial seating after redevelopment will help a bit as well, but there is less of a natural corporate market in Liverpool than in London or even Manchester. The current policy is to squeeze normal match goers, and I wouldn't be surprised to find out that LFC tickets have increased by the biggest % in the last 10 years under the various owners.

The other gap we have to the top few generally is the CL income which is less than reliable. Obviously commercial income is the place we are least hampered, so it's right that it's the focus.

Luckycharms_74

Player highlights vs Sunderland.
If Markovic's stunning effort had went in, that would be GOTS :eek:

Lazar Markovic vs Sunderland

Philippe Coutinho vs Sunderland

Mamadou Sakho vs Sunderland

Emre Can vs Sunderland

Turtyturd

Seamu$ wrote: »

#Chandsome

Nice to see this catching on. :cool:

tok9

Not another day of reminiscing over Torres.

Someone pass me the tissues

5starpool

tok9 wrote: »

Not another day of reminiscing over Torres day.

Someone pass me the tissues

Fancy him did you?

:pac:

ricero

tok9 wrote: »

Not another day of reminiscing over Torres day.

Someone pass me the tissues

Ya dirty fecker

K-9

SlickRic wrote: »

we do realise Torres was pretty much the best number 9 in world football for a while with us, yeah?

i rate Sturridge very highly, but he's not in that league yet.

ok then, any excuse for this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1osDX1qlSlI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vs7WG4A3zx4

Not too shabby either!

I think Danny suffers because we all got that transfer wrong!

Gbear

K-9 wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vs7WG4A3zx4

Not too shabby either!

I think Danny suffers because we all got that transfer wrong!

Looking at that it reminds of the other problem - some bad decision-making, specifically greediness when he takes on shots from very acute angles.

But that and fitness aside he's a much better footballer than Torres ever was in every area of the pitch.

It's typical of us that we get a player like that and he's never bloody fit.

Of course that's why you have a big squad.

Agent Coulson

The man with hair so good he doesn't need tattoo sleeves to play for Liverpool is 21 today.





So unfair to an auld balding lad like me

K-9

Gbear wrote: »

Looking at that it reminds of the other problem - some bad decision-making, specifically greediness when he takes on shots from very acute angles.

Yeah, a bit like Mario!

That's a given for a striker who scores over 20 goals in a season though.

But that and fitness aside he's a much better footballer than Torres ever was in every area of the pitch.

It's typical of us that we get a player like that and he's never bloody fit.

Of course that's why you have a big squad.

To be even talking about in the same breath as Torres shows how we all got that one wrong. Amazing what £35 Million gets you, Luis and Sturridge, or one Andy Carroll.

Charlie19

That Torres vid was so depressing and the music didn't help either:(

If we had some sort of hybrid crossbreed of Benitez & Rodgers in the 08/09 season, I think the club would have a PL title to its name. (Same goes with last season)

rob316

Sturridge to me is a bit underrated. 32 goals in 46 games is a terrific return, at any other big club he would be lauded as world class.

His touch, vision, pace, technical ability, finishing are of the highest level the one thing that lets him down still is his decision making. So many times last season he could of slotted it into Sterling or Suarez but instead smashed the side netting.

I think we have yet to see Sturridge at his peak, but Torres at his peak was something to behold. He terrified some of the best defenders in the game with his pace and finishing.
Problem with Torres was his speak was only 2 seasons so for that reason I'm going to say Sturridge will go on to be the better player as I see so much more to come from sturridge, provided he can stay fit.

LuckyLloyd

He's played a touch over a league season. He's done brilliant but his overall standing in the game is appropriate to his career as a whole. Fitness is a skill.

JohnDaniels

Charlie19 wrote: »

That Torres vid was so depressing and the music didn't help either:(

If we had some sort of hybrid crossbreed of Benitez & Rodgers in the 08/09 season, I think the club would have a PL title to its name. (Same goes with last season)

We were the highest scoring team in the league in 08/09 by nine goals. I do know what you mean but this idea that we played conservative football under Benitez is generally a myth, at least in the league.

noodler

rob316 wrote: »

Sturridge to me is a bit underrated. 32 goals in 46 games is a terrific return, at any other big club he would be lauded as world class.

.

I dunno about that.

We constantly criticise our club and others for buying one-hit wonders.

Now I am hopeful Sturridge will be more than that in the end of course, but world class after a season with Suarez is one thing - lets see where he goes from here.

LuckyLloyd

JohnDaniels wrote: »

We were the highest scoring team in the league in 08/09 by nine goals. I do know what you mean but this idea that we played conservative football under Benitez is generally a myth, at least in the league.

18 goals total in our four CL KO games that season also, of which we scored 11.

The realities of the Benitez era have been twisted beyond recognition at this stage.

K-9

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

18 goals total in our four CL KO games that season also, of which we scored 11.

The realities of the Benitez era have been twisted beyond recognition at this stage.

When the immediate past gets twisted, what do you expect?

rob316

JohnDaniels wrote: »

We were the highest scoring team in the league in 08/09 by nine goals. I do know what you mean but this idea that we played conservative football under Benitez is generally a myth, at least in the league.

Benitez had a system that made us solid, we scored plenty of goals but so often you just wished it wasn't as rigid and we just went for it. In truth it was the lack of a quality back up striker to Torres that cost us that season.
There was a lot of draws against dour teams, but Torres was missing for a majority of them.

Charlie19

JohnDaniels wrote: »

We were the highest scoring team in the league in 08/09 by nine goals. I do know what you mean but this idea that we played conservative football under Benitez is generally a myth, at least in the league.

From what I remember we had a lot of draws which cost us the league and thinking back, Benitez could of possibly loosen the shackles just a wee bit against the lesser sides in the league.

Still it was a great season and like last year, its a shame we just fell short.