Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014/15

Agent Coulson

Borini isn't good enough and needs to leave.

But I can't blame the lad for digging his heels in the way he has been treated over the last few months.

Maybe if he was treated with some respect over the last few months and told straight out he had no place at Liverpool going forward he may have looked for a team with his agent.

klose

If arbeloa in means Johnson out then bring it fcuking on I say.

klose

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Borini isn't good enough and needs to leave.

But I can't blame the lad for digging his heels in the way he has been treated over the last few months.

Maybe if he was treated with some respect over the last few months and told straight out he had no place at Liverpool going forward he may have looked for a team with his agent.

Wasent it reported borini was told by Rodgers he had no future here? He can only blame himself tbh if it's true.

rob316

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Borini isn't good enough and needs to leave.

But I can't blame the lad for digging his heels in the way he has been treated over the last few months.

Maybe if he was treated with some respect over the last few months and told straight out he had no place at Liverpool going forward he may have looked for a team with his agent.

Eh was told to go last summer, Rodgers doesn't fancy him. Yes Rodgers bought him but he's not good enough to play at this level.

tok9

It'll be great to see Flanagan back. I'm still happy with Manquillo but having Flanagan back can cover both wing back positions and he'll be a much better option than Johnson, Enrique and Henderson at a minimum.

Harry Palmr

.

#LFC are determined to resist any offers from Inter for Lucas Leiva because they have no replacement lined up. (Bascombe)

So much for the Delph chit chat then, maybe....

theoneeyedman

I dunno, I'm not getting all this love for lucas at all. He is slow over the ground, slows up the game too much, and fouls more than tackles. He just seems to shuffle about, and doesn't contribute a whole lot. Might be marginally better than Gerrard in a deep DM position but only just imo.
If a decent offer comes in, personally I'd be happy enough to see him sold (sold not loaned).

Chucky the tree

I'm much happier seeing Borini in the first 11 than Lambert. It's just a shame our manager doesn't have as much sense.

Harry Palmr

theoneeyedman wrote: »

I dunno, I'm not getting all this love for lucas at all. He is slow over the ground, slows up the game too much, and fouls more than tackles. He just seems to shuffle about, and doesn't contribute a whole lot. Might be marginally better than Gerrard in a deep DM position but only just imo.
If a decent offer comes in, personally I'd be happy enough to see him sold (sold not loaned).

The difference is in the points won when he starts - you don't have to like what he does or how he does it but it seems to be working.

brevity

theoneeyedman wrote: »

I dunno, I'm not getting all this love for lucas at all. He is slow over the ground, slows up the game too much, and fouls more than tackles. He just seems to shuffle about, and doesn't contribute a whole lot. Might be marginally better than Gerrard in a deep DM position but only just imo.
If a decent offer comes in, personally I'd be happy enough to see him sold (sold not loaned).

Can you not see the improvement in our results since he has come back in?

Gerrard in DM is an absolute disaster and this been proven countless times.

noodler

rob316 wrote: »

Eh was told to go last summer, Rodgers doesn't fancy him. Yes Rodgers bought him but he's not good enough to play at this level.

Silly statement when you take into account his competition at Liverpool.

Until we have fit strikers who are actually better than him - I see no point in singleing him out as not being good enough.

NukaCola

theoneeyedman wrote: »

I dunno, I'm not getting all this love for lucas at all. He is slow over the ground, slows up the game too much, and fouls more than tackles. He just seems to shuffle about, and doesn't contribute a whole lot. Might be marginally better than Gerrard in a deep DM position but only just imo.
If a decent offer comes in, personally I'd be happy enough to see him sold (sold not loaned).

There is a subtlety to his game that escapes many including yourself. You are not the first or last to not recognise how important he operates within our midfield.

Just watch how he works when we lose the ball or when we are not in possession of the ball, in terms of space and cover. That position is vital and he does an excellent job at it, not saying we cant sign better but we currently have no one better at it or close. People think Can may be able to do it but we haven't seen too much of him there so I cant make a call on that.

NukaCola

noodler wrote: »

Silly statement when you take into account his competition at Liverpool.

Until we have fit strikers who are actually better than him - I see no point in singleing him out as not being good enough.

I agree. If we are being honest Lambert and Borini are not good enough. Our wildcard in Mario has been a disaster and we have been unlucky with Sturridge but cant complain really.

We need a goalscorer and a GK immediately. I know its easier said than done but Utd have shown that an average team with finishers and excellent GK can get you into that top 3/4 mix.

LuckyLloyd

There were people saying Lucas wasn't up to it during 2010 and 2011 when he played the best football of his career. He's never going to be a 'popular' player.

Chucky the tree

Too many backwards passes! Sell him!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1xBEiH9f7k

rob316

noodler wrote: »

Silly statement when you take into account his competition at Liverpool.

Until we have fit strikers who are actually better than him - I see no point in singleing him out as not being good enough.

But none of them are good enough bar sturridge. Borini does offer movement and decent link up play but his finishing is appallingly bad.

T-K-O

This reminds me of the Barry / Alonso debacle. Nothing against delph, I wouldn't mind picking him up on the cheap but not at the expense of Lucas.

We have others players who could be moved on to generate cash.

NukaCola

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Too many backwards passes! Sell him!

His reading of the game, positioning and decision making is excellent and usually spot on. A better DM than anyone in our squad. All thats lacking is a bit of pace.

Magico Gonzalez

theoneeyedman wrote: »

I dunno, I'm not getting all this love for lucas at all. He is slow over the ground, slows up the game too much, and fouls more than tackles. He just seems to shuffle about, and doesn't contribute a whole lot. Might be marginally better than Gerrard in a deep DM position but only just imo.
If a decent offer comes in, personally I'd be happy enough to see him sold (sold not loaned).

If we have learnt anything from the fiasco of trying to replace Suarez it's that the replacements need to be proven quality and lined up before the outgoing player is sold.

I don't see us getting anyone in Jan who can do the dirty work better than Lucas. He's no world beater, a sort of soliud 6 or 7 out of 10 but we have bigger problems to address. GK/Fwd (Ciao Mario e Fabio!)

It's been a long time since we have produced a home grown player in that position (DM), it's all good and well focusing on skilful ball players but we don't seem to be able to produce a carragher or a player like Didi Hamman to stabilise the side. Too many Suso type players who end up not making the grade.

the kelt

The issue with Lucas is he hasnt been the same player since those series of injuries. He is a yard slower, not as mobile and it can be noticed that he doesnt get about the pitch as well and gives away a lot of frees as a result.

The problem is in reality we needed a DM that was an upgrade on Lucas but Rodgers has failed to bring in that player. As a result Lucas is really the best player we have for that position but in my opinion we need to get an upgrade on Lucas.

Thats what worries me about our recruitment, Can isnt that type of player, he may develop into that player but not yet and Delph is not that type of player either. To sell Lucas without investing in a replacement who is better than Lucas in his current position is madness in my opinion.

JohnDaniels

NukaCola wrote: »

There is a subtlety to his game that escapes many including yourself. You are not the first or last to not recognise how important he operates within our midfield.

Just watch how he works when we lose the ball or when we are not in possession of the ball, in terms of space and cover. That position is vital and he does an excellent job at it, not saying we cant sign better but we currently have no one better at it or close. People think Can may be able to do it but we haven't seen too much of him there so I cant make a call on that.

This is it exactly. His game intelligence is off the charts. Even though he has lost a yard of pace, he makes up for it with his footballing brain. Many fans though will never appreciate that as it very rarely translates when watching a match on TV. I'd love if over the next couple of seasons Can shadowed him and learnt from him as if he could gather the same kind of game intelligence from working with Lucas allied with Can's other attributes he could be a monster in that position.

gafferino

Utopia Parkway

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I'm much happier seeing Borini in the first 11 than Lambert. It's just a shame our manager doesn't have as much sense.

Neither of them fill me with much confidence to be honest.

Dickerty

gafferino wrote: »

Get your boots on son!!

joe123

Sorry if this has been posted but this gave me a chuckle during work!

https://twitter.com/Brenzie/status/554002857297711104/photo/1

Charlie19

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

"The £10m signing has scored twice in 33 Liverpool appearances"

And yet people still defend him...

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I'm much happier seeing Borini in the first 11 than Lambert. It's just a shame our manager doesn't have as much sense.

To choose between Borini, Mario or Lambert.. Borini all day long.

If we have to sell Borini to fund new signings.. On your bike Fabio.

Thats how bad, I feel our striker options are.

Sappy404

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

Whatever happened to your man Belhanda that Kess was always banging on about? Was he a little more Stephen Defour and a little less Hazard.

Ah yes, Belhanda. Defour. Welliton. N'zogbia. Good times!

There was an obsession with a little French lad with a bad-ass surname as well. Can't quite recall his name... anyway I'm sure he's dot doing much, same as the rest.

tok9

gafferino wrote: »

Ah jesus.. what are they celebrating now! :P

theoneeyedman

the kelt wrote: »

The issue with Lucas is he hasnt been the same player since those series of injuries. He is a yard slower, not as mobile and it can be noticed that he doesnt get about the pitch as well and gives away a lot of frees as a result.

The problem is in reality we needed a DM that was an upgrade on Lucas but Rodgers has failed to bring in that player. As a result Lucas is really the best player we have for that position but in my opinion we need to get an upgrade on Lucas.

This.
It's nothing about subtleties or lack of understanding, he simply ain't near as good as a few years ago. Some here viewing him through a prism based on former glories rather than his abilities as of now.
Simply ain't strong, quick, or good enough imo for a top side. The fact that he is best that's there shouldn't hide that.

x43r0

joe123 wrote: »

Sorry if this has been posted but this gave me a chuckle during work!

https://twitter.com/Brenzie/status/554002857297711104/photo/1

This is so accurate

Magico Gonzalez

Well played to the 4 jokers who voted for Mignolet as the league's best keeper.

I salute you.

rossc007

the kelt wrote: »

The issue with Lucas is he hasnt been the same player since those series of injuries. He is a yard slower, not as mobile and it can be noticed that he doesnt get about the pitch as well and gives away a lot of frees as a result.

Lucas was always guilty of giving away free kicks, it could be argued that comes with the turf. He's a proper DM, reads the game very well and provides the cover center backs need. You could never describe him as a particularly mobile player, he was never box to box or particularly quick. DM is more about positioning and reading the game. He's the polar opposite to Gerrard.

Aside from that, I have a lot of respect for Lucas, he constantly gets grief from the fans and still goes about his job, he's dont that from day one. Extremely underrated by everyone, I hope we hang onto him.

kingshankly

Just realised Lucas is only 28
Not a massive fan but it's madness letting him go now
Apparently he did a lot of waving to the crowd after the game Saturday suggesting he may be on his way

Yakult

It would be extremely stupid to sell our only true defensive midfielder halfway through an already struggling campaign. Would piss me off highly.

Vanolder

rossc007 wrote: »

Lucas was always guilty of giving away free kicks, it could be argued that comes with the turf. He's a proper DM, reads the game very well and provides the cover center backs need. You could never describe him as a particularly mobile player, he was never box to box or particularly quick. DM is more about positioning and reading the game. He's the polar opposite to Gerrard.

Aside from that, I have a lot of respect for Lucas, he constantly gets grief from the fans and still goes about his job, he's dont that from day one. Extremely underrated by everyone, I hope we hang onto him.

I can't believe his importnace is still being questioned- Only someone that never played the game would question Lucas' inclusion in the team- He is one of the major reasons the team have turned things around recently.

garra

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

He won't be a handy squad player though, as you've just said, he'll need a run of games in order for him to get goals, and squad players don't play weekly.

Yep agreed, if there is one player you could nominate to be a "squad" player, ie little used but manages to contribute when called upon, Borini is not that type of player. His game is based on athleticism and without match sharpness he is virtuallly useless in front of goal, some would proffer that is his default state anyway (me included).

MR NINE

Its great to see lucas regain some form of old. I gotta admit i never thought it would happen. The two or three years after his injury problems he just never looked as good as he had been and up until the start of this season I was convinced we should and would get rid. Im delighted to be wrong, hes one of the most likeable footballers around imo. His game may not be pretty but its very effective when hes on form. If he keeps it up we should hopefully see a few glimpses of that "lucas is boss" banner in the near future.

Selling him would pure idiocy. I keep seeing people posting about rumours of him leaving but I have yet to see one link, to any claim, never mind that of a reliable source. Can anyone show me a decent source claiming he could leave? Or is it all a load of bollox? I find it very hard to believe we would let him go at the moment considering how important he has become this season

MR NINE

Regarding Borini, I dont think anyone claimed hes a world beater. The people who are calling for him to start games, myself included, are thinking of him in comparison with Lambert and Balotelli. None of em are scoring goals and, imo, borini is the most useful when played as a lone striker. I dont think theres a single person on this message board who believes Borini is good enough to be a regular first choice striker for a Liverpool team competing in the cl and for epl titles. However, there are a few of us who feel he is our best option to start up front on his own when Sturridge is absent.

Lambert has been hopeless whenever played and our football turns to ****. Similarly with Balotelli it often feels like playing with ten men. With Borini, although he may lack the talent balotelli has, he is still effective. He creates space for others, he works hard, he actually moves which is considerably better than what Lambert offers and hes been known to pass the ball from time to time which is a damn sight better than what balotelli offers.

I think we can all agree our striker options arent good enough

smileyj1987

Charlie19 wrote: »

To choose between Borini, Mario or Lambert.. Borini all day long.

If we have to sell Borini to fund new signings.. On your bike Fabio.

Thats how bad, I feel our striker options are.

Turf lambert or Mario out the door , at least with Fabio he moves and makes space . So it means the likes of coutinho , sterling and markovich can actually get into space to take shots .
Playing with him will make the team abit more comfortable when Danny retuns too aswell !

rossc007

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Too many backwards passes! Sell him!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1xBEiH9f7k

Mustard! What Lucas needs is one of the gob****es on MOTD to point out the work he does, then everyone will be creaming themselves again.

rob316

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

Well played to the 4 jokers who voted for Mignolet as the league's best keeper.

I salute you.

Hello :pac:

Its now 8 which has him 3rd best keeper in the league

the kelt

rossc007 wrote: »

Lucas was always guilty of giving away free kicks, it could be argued that comes with the turf. He's a proper DM, reads the game very well and provides the cover center backs need. You could never describe him as a particularly mobile player, he was never box to box or particularly quick. DM is more about positioning and reading the game. He's the polar opposite to Gerrard.

Aside from that, I have a lot of respect for Lucas, he constantly gets grief from the fans and still goes about his job, he's dont that from day one. Extremely underrated by everyone, I hope we hang onto him.

Lucas was signed as a box to box midfielder.

In Kennys first full season in charge Lucas was the best DM in the premiership bar none but he then picked up quite a serious cruciate injury. He hasnt been the same player since that and subsequent injuries.

The problem at the moment is under the way Rodgers plays a DM with mobility is essential due to the fact we often leave ourselves quite exposed. We have centre backs, none of whom except arguably for Sakho who are quick and mobile, coupled with a keeper who is afraid to come off his line and a DM who is neither quick or mobile.

I like Lucas as a player, he is by far the best we have in that position at the moment but in the long term if we really want to push on we need an upgrade on him. The problem is players like Delph arent that upgrade, they're not even the same bloody type which is quite worrying to be honest. To replace Lucas at this stage of the season would be madness in my opinion unless you have an upgrade lined up.

Maybe the snippets that were coming out last night about William Carvahlo and how he is a Liverpool fan and would love to play for LIverpool some day might have something more to them and to replace Lucas with a player like that would make sense.

smileyj1987

rossc007 wrote: »

Mustard! What Lucas needs is one of the gob****es on MOTD to point out the work he does, then everyone will be creaming themselves again.

No one will do that at all !! He doesn't do enough of the setting up chances and scoring for people to notice him .
I wouldn't sell him at all ! It would be pure madness to do that .

J Mysterio

That video above actually shows him putting in a really good shift against Sunderland.

Nerdlingr

Vanolder wrote: »

I can't believe his importnace is still being questioned- Only someone that never played the game would question Lucas' inclusion in the team- He is one of the major reasons the team have turned things around recently.

His importence isn't being questioned. Its how good a player he actually is is being called into doubt.
He does a job.
The question is can we get someone in to do that job better? If not in January then hopefully the summer.
He's good Lucas but he's not anything special.

OwaynOTT

tok9 wrote: »

It'll be great to see Flanagan back. I'm still happy with Manquillo but having Flanagan back can cover both wing back positions and he'll be a much better option than Johnson, Enrique and Henderson at a minimum.

Flanno, if he can play at last seasons level, is a better option than Manquillo in my view.
Better passer, cooler head and better going forward. Actually in fact I can't think of anyway that Manquillo is better than Flannaghan.

NukaCola

rob316 wrote: »

Hello :pac:

Its now 8 which has him 3rd best keeper in the league

Now 9.

Its between De Gea and Courtois anyway.....

Lloris is very underrated, he's much closer to those two than many realise or recognise.

Agent Coulson

Nerdlingr wrote: »

His importence isn't being questioned. Its how good a player he actually is is being called into doubt.
He does a job.
The question is can we get someone in to do that job better? If not in January then hopefully the summer.
He's good Lucas but he's not anything special.

I wouldn't count on it!

We haven't done a good job replacing most of the experienced players we have sold over the last number of years.

Lucas would be down the list of players at the club that need replacing and upgrading.

Gerrard, Johnson, Lambert, Balotelli, Borini, Jones & Mignolet all need to be replaced or upgraded before Lucas.

gafferino

Vanolder wrote: »

I can't believe his importnace is still being questioned- Only someone that never played the game would question Lucas' inclusion in the team- He is one of the major reasons the team have turned things around recently.

True. Im a big fan and dont want him to go anywhere.
From his point of view he didnt get much of a look in last season and only got in this season when things were pear shaped. I think its clear he is not in Rodgers long team plans and I think he knows this.

NukaCola

OwaynOTT wrote: »

Flanno, if he can play at last seasons level, is a better option than Manquillo in my view.
Better passer, cooler head and better going forward. Actually in fact I can't think of anyway that Manquillo is better than Flannaghan.

Not a big Flanagan fan but do recognise that last season he was very good.

I may be harsh here but going forward he is very very ordinary at best. He cant cross the ball. Manquillo is faster, at least as competant passing and much better and comfortable going forward IMO. Flanno more solid, stronger and has better defensive positioning.

In conclusion I prefer Flannagan but he isn't a threat going forward, which is no slight on the lad, he is a FB after all.