using your PhD title

TheSheriff

Yeah its become the battle of the PhDs versus medics - who deserves what title.

Round 99999999999

DeepSleeper

DeepSleeper wrote: »

The degree (PhD or DL, DLitt etc.) leads to a change in title (Mr / Ms becomes Dr).

In daily life, I'm generally known as 'Deep Sleeper' like anyone else, but the correct form of address (if one cares about what is on the envelope, etc.) is Dr Deep Sleeper. It would be weird to refer to me as 'Dr Deep Sleeper' all the time - a guy without a PhD isn't referred to as 'Mr John Murphy' all the time, he's normally just John Murphy as I'm normally just 'Deep Sleeper'. However, if titles are required (for application forms as mentioned above, in formal address, etc.), then the correct title for him is Mr and the correct title for me is Dr - that isn't pretentious, it's just a fact! ..

We don't have a caste system enshrined in our laws afaik - there is no such thing as a correct title. All titles are an anachronism and should be abandoned (Mr Mrs Dr Ms etc.) Your academic qualification could still come after your own name should you wish.

riaganach

Reading this thread reminds me of something that happened me just after I got the PhD, after a 6-year long slog of the misery and cul-de-sacs.

I was walking home of a Sunday morning at 8am after a fair few pints and kipping on a sofa. There wasn't a sinner around. Then this car screeches to a halt and a guy rolls down the window and shouts over 'Are you a Doctor?'. Having recently graduated, sure I was only waiting for an opportunity to tell someone I was a Dr.

But I hesitated and said: 'No, no I'm not'. He then explained that he had a very sick kid in the back of the car who'd been up all night crying and he was looking for a doctor. He said he stopped because I looked like a doctor. He sped off... and I whispered after him... 'But I have a PhD in engineering'...

Ya can't make it up.

Donkey Oaty

Anyone remember this from the movie "What's Up, Doc?"?

Hugh: Don't touch me, I'm a doctor.
Judge Maxwell: Of what?
Hugh: Music.
Judge Maxwell: Can you fix a hi-fi?
Hugh: No, sir.
Judge Maxwell: Then shut up!

TheSheriff

One this I have noticed since finishing the undergrad is that this whole business of titles and what not is a complete rat race.

Sometimes I wish I had had the balls to see what would have happened if I didnt go to college in the first place.

Maybe Id be able to retire younger if I came up with some bright spark idea for a business

steddyeddy

TheSheriff wrote: »

Yeah its become the battle of the PhDs versus medics - who deserves what title.

Round 99999999999

Scientists VS medics ha ha

JaseBelleVie

I regret not getting my PhD, but I have a good job with the qualifications I currently have (Bachelor's and Masters' degrees). I had an opportunity to continue on and do a PhD, but a really good job opportunity opened up at the same time. I bit the bullet and took the job. I enjoy my work, and there is a real possibility of further promotion and so on. I have a good salary and really enjoy my work. But the chance to have a doctorate in my field and be able to be the ponce that so many here dislike would be class!

Also, just to be clear, I never put my qualifications after my name. Unless required by the company.

DeepSleeper

Deleted User wrote: »

We don't have a caste system enshrined in our laws afaik - there is no such thing as a correct title. All titles are an anachronism and should be abandoned (Mr Mrs Dr Ms etc.) Your academic qualification could still come after your own name should you wish.

No, we don't have a caste system, but that has nothing to do with a person's title. The two are quite distinct things so it doesn't help to confuse them.

Donkey Oaty

DeepSleeper wrote: »

No, we don't have a caste system, but that has nothing to do with a person's title. The two are quite distinct things so it doesn't help to confuse them.

Debatable.

http://libra.msra.cn/Publication/3852878/the-academic-caste-system-prestige-hierarchies-in-phd-exchange-networks

DeepSleeper

DeepSleeper wrote: »

No, we don't have a caste system, but that has nothing to do with a person's title. The two are quite distinct things so it doesn't help to confuse them.

What is a correct title though? How is calling you Mr incorrect? When did you stop being called Master? Why is my elderly aunt a Ms and my wife who is almost fifty years younger a Mrs? They are all nonsense.

steddyeddy

My correct title is GOD!

shruikan2553

Deleted User wrote: »

What is a correct title though? How is calling you Mr incorrect? When did you stop being called Master? Why is my elderly aunt a Ms and my wife who is almost fifty years younger a Mrs? They are all nonsense.

Does it really matter? They are more of a traditional thing that means nothing. Most they do is help you figure out what gender the person is if they have a name that can be either. The only time I use Mr is on forms that ask for my title, I could put down Mrs or Fr and nobody would care

Laphroaig52

Deleted User wrote: »

What is a correct title though? How is calling you Mr incorrect? When did you stop being called Master? Why is my elderly aunt a Ms and my wife who is almost fifty years younger a Mrs? They are all nonsense.

It comes down to accepted social conventions and general etiquette.
If you are dealing with somebody formally (in writing say) for the first time, a first name may be too familiar. Just using the surname is a bit brusque. And using both is awkward as well as a being a bit of a mouthful.

So Mr/Mrs/Miss are ways to respectfully but formally address somebody you don't know very well.

But these are honorific titles and following the same conventions, you can't give an honorific to yourself without sounding a bit self important or silly or both.

Of course, its a free society and you can call yourself anything you like - and lots of people (who are not surgeons!) apply Mr to themselves. But unless you would also announce yourself as "The Right Wonderful.....", you should only use an honorific to address other people and not to describe yourself.

That's why the Mr. thing for surgeons/consultants puzzles me:
If it is an accepted convention to address them as Mr. rather than Dr, and they want to distinguish themselves from other doctors that's fine - if a bit precious. But Mr is still an honorific and it seems wrong to apply it to themselves - such as
on a business card or the like.

I never use Dr outside of work, and only then because I work in a uni and I'm expected to use it there. I cringe a bit when I hear people use titles socially.

Coming from a family that consists of two parents and two siblings who are all medics, none of whom use Dr in their everyday work or life, I am constantly reminded that I'm not a real Dr anyway.

vienne86

I put mine on a couple of forms when I got it first.....I think it is actually on the address of my bank account, but not on bank cards. I worked in a uni, and it appeared on exam papers, conference programmes etc, but no one ever called me Dr. I'm out of all that now and never use the title. I noticed I got a couple of Christmas cards addressed to Dr me.....heaven knows why. I'm wondering if I could flog the PhD on Ebay......'one careful owner, hardly used.....what offers?'

garancafan

Candie wrote: »

I never use Dr outside of work, and only then because I work in a uni and I'm expected to use it there. I cringe a bit when I hear people use titles socially.

Coming from a family that consists of two parents and two siblings who are all medics, none of whom use Dr in their everyday work or life, I am constantly reminded that I'm not a real Dr anyway.

It's not clear whether you're a medic or a real Dr.

Baggy Trousers

garancafan wrote: »

It's not clear whether you're a medic or a real Dr.

Its clear to me.

garancafan

As a D.Phil married to a medic I quite enjoy those Christmas cards addressed Dr. and Mrs. gf. Not quite sure about those addressed "the Drs. gf"!

OOps. I'm ♂

garancafan

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

Its clear to me.

You're obviously a medic - you lost an apostrophe.

srsly78

Flyer28 wrote: »

That's why the Mr. thing for surgeons/consultants puzzles me:
If it is an accepted convention to address them as Mr. rather than Dr, and they want to distinguish themselves from other doctors that's fine - if a bit precious. But Mr is still an honorific and it seems wrong to apply it to themselves - such as
on a business card or the like.

Nothing puzzling about it. Tradtionally surgeons used to come from the barbers guild :pac:

Doctor comes from the latin term for teacher so is more of an academic title.

emmetlego

Married into a family of academics, PhD, MD's etc, none of which call themselves Dr, apart from one sister in law, who has an honorary PhD.


Alas, a joke within the family. Anyone who works hard for the PhD title has the right to use Dr. An honorary one (Dr Ian for example) can go and sh1te!!!

Henlars67

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

You should insist on being called Doctor. It annoys the people who are less smarter.

or just of lesser means?

garancafan

steddyeddy wrote: »

My correct title is GOD!

Would that be Dr God or just plain Mr God?

Laphroaig52

srsly78 wrote: »

Nothing puzzling about it. Tradtionally surgeons used to come from the barbers guild :pac:

Doctor comes from the latin term for teacher so is more of an academic title.

What puzzles me is why they would want to apply an honorific to themselves.

Tobyglen

From my experience of working with people who have PhD's, those who choose to use them in e-mail signatures, sign offs etc have tended to be assholes. Small enough sample of about 15-20 but there you go!

pharmaton

I've been working with a host of different doctors (medical) for the last while and I can't bring myself to not address them by their title. It's like I'm not worthy enough to call them by their name. (and you can stop telling me because I'll still call you Dr, doctor)

sullivlo

I work in academia and have "sullivlo, PhD" in my email signature. I'll use it in applying to conferences / for funding / for work purposes. My boss refers to me as Dr Sullivlo in dealings with others (if I meet a visiting scientist / she is emailing someone and I'm copied in on it) but generally in work I'm just sullivlo.

Never use it other than that - flights / banks / insurance is all Ms.

Most of my other PhD friends are the same.

If that makes me a twat then so be it!

vienne86

Flyer28 wrote: »

What puzzles me is why they would want to apply an honorific to themselves.

These things matter to some people and not others. Like the title of Professor. Really important for some people, to the extent that when they retire/leave a uni they try to get the position 'professor emeritus', which allows them to go on using the title of Professor after they have left the job. I just think 'who bloody cares?' but obviously some folk do.

Jawgap

sullivlo wrote: »

I work in academia and have "sullivlo, PhD" in my email signature. I'll use it in applying to conferences / for funding / for work purposes. My boss refers to me as Dr Sullivlo in dealings with others (if I meet a visiting scientist / she is emailing someone and I'm copied in on it) but generally in work I'm just sullivlo.

Never use it other than that - flights / banks / insurance is all Ms.

Most of my other PhD friends are the same.

If that makes me a twat then so be it!

I use mine in my email signature, but my email signature is not set to auto so I have to deliberately include it - something I only do when I think it's needed, usually, as you say, in formal correspondence or where it's expected (some national cultures 'like' to see it used). Likewise, my boss uses it more than I do when introducing me!

I'd never use it in a social setting and never when booking a flight etc for fear that if something went wrong I'd be called on to render medical assistance!!!

The only time I've seen it appear on a booking is when then booking has been made on my behalf by, for example, a conference organiser.

Flyer28

Flyer28 wrote: »

What puzzles me is why they would want to apply an honorific to themselves.

Having earned the title why not use it if you want to? It also may be an advantage for instance on a mortgage application or if you are one of many trying to rent an apartment when the landlord sees "Dr." that could be the deciding factor.

As I said earlier I have Dr. nox in my email signature as do all people I work with, it would be strange if left out. It also stops external people thinking they are dealing with a student etc so it is advantageous. I fully intend to use it on important documents in my personal life going forward as it may give an advantage but I wouldn't use it in a social setting.

Laphroaig52

Finnegan Easy Rash wrote: »

Having earned the title why not use it if you want to? It also may be an advantage for instance on a mortgage application or if you are one of many trying to rent an apartment when the landlord sees "Dr." that could be the deciding factor.

As I said earlier I have Dr. nox in my email signature as do all people I work with, it would be strange if left out. It also stops external people thinking they are dealing with a student etc so it is advantageous. I fully intend to use it on important documents in my personal life going forward as it may give an advantage but I wouldn't use it in a social setting.

I think you misunderstood my comment.
I was referring to the self use of 'Mr.' rather than 'Dr'.

Dr. is not an honorific. It is a title conferred on a person by an accredited and reputable body. There is no ambiguity about whether the person is a Dr or not and I would have no difficulty with someone applying it to themselves - even if it might seem a little over the top outside of their professional activities.

Flyer28

Flyer28 wrote: »

I think you misunderstood my comment.
I was referring to the self use of 'Mr.' rather than 'Dr'.

Dr. is not an honorific. It is a title conferred on a person by an accredited and reputable body. There is no ambiguity about whether the person is a Dr or not and I would have no difficulty with someone applying it to themselves - even if it might seem a little over the top outside of their professional activities.

Sorry I misunderstood your post.

steddyeddy

My boss end every email with "professor" and "MRIA" (member of The Royal Irish Academy). He's earned it though.

darkpagandeath

What's the point people will just tell you to take any job after you graduate as beggars cant be choosers. Wonder how many phd tesco employees we have. Or to get experience you will have to work for 18 months on Job bridge.

steddyeddy

darkpagandeath wrote: »

What's the point people will just tell you to take any job after you graduate as beggars cant be choosers. Wonder how many phd tesco employees we have. Or to get experience you will have to work for 18 months on Job bridge.

Not all PhDs are equal in the eyes of an employer.. It depends how much you publish and what your research is in. Biochemistry is prized and If I looked into cancer I would have money thrown at me but if I researched something with little clinical relevance I would be struggling.

darkpagandeath

steddyeddy wrote: »

Not all PhDs are equal in the eyes of an employer.. It depends how much you publish and what your research is in. Biochemistry is prized and If I looked into cancer I would have money thrown at me but if I researched something with little clinical relevance I would be struggling.

That's kind of my point very few people are being pointed into the right fields common problem here.

jh79

steddyeddy wrote: »

Not all PhDs are equal in the eyes of an employer.. It depends how much you publish and what your research is in. Biochemistry is prized and If I looked into cancer I would have money thrown at me but if I researched something with little clinical relevance I would be struggling.

Pay in Ireland is terrible. Options are pretty limited too for Biology based PhD's in Ireland. A lot end up doing chemistry based roles.

my friend

darkpagandeath wrote: »

What's the point people will just tell you to take any job after you graduate as beggars cant be choosers. Wonder how many phd tesco employees we have. Or to get experience you will have to work for 18 months on Job bridge.

and your chosen area of expertise would appear to be negativity, best of luck with that attitude.

Makood

mickstupp wrote: »

Not sure if true, but my friend works with a bunch of Germans and says they like to stick down whatever qualifications they've got all the time, even just in simple office emails. One even insists on Dr. Dr. Whatever as she has two PhDs.

Again... not sure if true.

It's true

darkpagandeath

darkpagandeath wrote: »

What's the point people will just tell you to take any job after you graduate as beggars cant be choosers. Wonder how many phd tesco employees we have. Or to get experience you will have to work for 18 months on Job bridge.

The years spent doing a PhD also count as work experience so after 4 years doing a phd you also have 4 years experience in the area you are working. I got a job (1 year contract) in the same institution working on similar things I did during my PhD as soon as I finished

Makood

The O/H is a medical Dr and would never dream of using the title outside of work. But I do insist she puts it on flight tickets in case of an emergency.

darkpagandeath

my friend wrote: »

and your chosen area of expertise would appear to be negativity, best of luck with that attitude.

OK what part if any of what I said is incorrect. I wonder how well the work for free job bridge people feel after being gouged and let go. Odd that in other countries they don't need a job bridge affair or Tus or any other plethora of schemes to cook the books. Most places manage to hire people without government subsidies. Where will you work once the race to the bottom is complete ? Will you go back to farming the land as that will be the only option, as multinationals will move to the cheaper countries in time once their tax breaks stop.

Vandango

o1s1n wrote: »

If you can't write me a cert to get a day off work you're not a real doctor.

Nailed it.

Tarzana2

sullivlo wrote: »

I work in academia and have "sullivlo, PhD" in my email signature. I'll use it in applying to conferences / for funding / for work purposes. My boss refers to me as Dr Sullivlo in dealings with others (if I meet a visiting scientist / she is emailing someone and I'm copied in on it) but generally in work I'm just sullivlo.

Never use it other than that - flights / banks / insurance is all Ms.

Most of my other PhD friends are the same.

If that makes me a twat then so be it!

Very few people have said in this thread that using it in a professional sphere makes you a twat.

Tarzana2

steddyeddy wrote: »

Considering the amount of medicine students who struggle at biochemistry I would hesitate to think that there are a lot who could handle a PhD.

I need to respond to this and I have to say I disagree.

I did a large component of biochemistry as part of my degree though I didn't specialise in it. Most students on my course struggled at first with biochemistry, it's tough at first to grapple with. And some of these went on to be gold medallists in their degrees and earn PhDs at prestigious institutions. Biochemistry takes a lot of work at the beginning to get to grips with and I don't believe the med students you are dealing with are any worse in this regard. They are just getting less time to process the information because they have such a volume of work to get through. I think any of them would be well able for a PhD in biochemistry if they had a chance to really immerse themselves in the subject. They are not science students so just don't need to immerse themselves as much, and they just wouldn't have the time to!

lanos

Saipanne wrote: »

I have a degree and masters degree in economics. I finished top of the class in the latter. I think it is a little bit pretentious putting the letters there.

Its a bit pretentious telling us that you finished top of your class

ronanc1000

This topics reminds me of a certain movie comedy.

'Stu, you're not a doctor. Your a dentist!' XD

Witcher

You and your mum are hilbillies, this is a house of learned doctors.

take everything

Tarzana2 wrote: »

I need to respond to this and I have to say I disagree.

I did a large component of biochemistry as part of my degree though I didn't specialise in it. Most students on my course struggled at first with biochemistry, it's tough at first to grapple with. And some of these went on to be gold medallists in their degrees and earn PhDs at prestigious institutions. Biochemistry takes a lot of work at the beginning to get to grips with and I don't believe the med students you are dealing with are any worse in this regard. They are just getting less time to process the information because they have such a volume of work to get through. I think any of them would be well able for a PhD in biochemistry if they had a chance to really immerse themselves in the subject. They are not science students so just don't need to immerse themselves as much, and they just wouldn't have the time to!

From what I remember of biochem in college, there's nothing intellectually taxing about it. Once you have the basic principles, i remember it as a largely a "plug 'n' chug" subject with reams and reams of catabolic/anabolic pathways to remember.

I remember once briefly being vaguely interested in the whole idea of there being a more elegant unifying description for how all these pathways arise (and discussing this with the biochem lecturer) but otherwise it was just memorisation.

Tarzana2

take everything wrote: »

From what I remember of biochem in college, there's nothing intellectually taxing about it. Once you have the basic principles, i remember it as a largely a "plug 'n' chug" subject with reams and reams of catabolic/anabolic pathways to remember.

I remember once briefly being vaguely interested in the whole idea of there being a more elegant unifying description for how all these pathways arise (and discussing this with the biochem lecturer) but otherwise it was just memorisation.

I would never have learned it if it was solely memorisation personally, I needed to understand what happened in each pathway. Chemical names need to be memorised to an extent but what helped me memorise them was understanding what each one meant, as the names don't tend to be gobbledegook, each part of the name means something.