Hungry? C4 to create comedy series...about the famine

Micky Dolenz

Jawgap wrote: »

You mean prime minister?????

Who says I'm British?? And why is my nationality relevant??

For the record, I'm Irish........born here, reared here (and have very represented my country abroad on an occasion or two)


.......I also have certain quals / experience in history, archives and research.....

Whats with all the question marks?.

To be honest, I more interested in how you represented Ireland, that's pretty cool. You don't need to go into detail, sporty or non sporty.

Jawgap

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Whats with all the question marks?.

To be honest, I more interested in how you represented Ireland, that's pretty cool. You don't need to go into detail, sporty or non sporty.

The question marks express bemusement.......

My name is URL

Jawgap wrote: »

As I already pointed put earlier - from 1846 through 1850, more food was imported into the country than exported.

If the Government really wanted to exterminate the population why allow an amount equivalent to 50% of the island's food production to be imported????

They may not have wanted to exterminate the population but are you denying that efforts were made to keep the population down.. and I don't just mean in terms of numbers.

Why was Charles Trevelyan given the position of administrating relief in Ireland, while he himself was openly anti-Irish and made numerous genocidal remarks about Irish people?

And who was getting the food being imported into Ireland? Did most of it not go to land owners who were in cahoots with the British?

Billy86

Esther Obedient Numeral wrote: »

If it turns out to be brilliant satire then fair enough, something akin to Siegfried Sassoon's poems and critics of World War 1.

Modern TV likes to keep things dumbed down though so I'm not holding my breath.

Depending on what you're watching, really - modern TV is also making some of the smartest and best stuff in it's entire history.

But yeah, depends entirely on how they approach and execute it.

Micky Dolenz

Jawgap wrote: »

The question marks express bemusement.......

Do the ........... also express it, by chance?

so come on, sporty or non sporty?

MadsL

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Do the ........... also express it, by chance?

so come on, sporty or non sporty?

Do I get a response or do you just want to discuss punctuation instead?

I'm easy. !@#$%^&*()

Ghost Buster

Anyone see The Ringer. A COMEDY about a failed athlete pretending to be mentally handicapped so he could compete in the special Olympics? There was outrage at the very idea but The Special Olympics ended up endorsing it.
why can similar not happen with this?

Jawgap

My name is URL wrote: »

They may not have wanted to exterminate the population but are you denying that efforts were made to keep the population down.. and I don't just mean in terms of numbers.

Why was Charles Trevelyan given the position of administrating relief in Ireland, while he himself was openly anti-Irish and made numerous genocidal remarks about Irish people?

There's a very long thread discussing this in the History forum......I suggest reading that.

If you can't be bothered, then the short version is that the policies imposed, as brutal as they seem today, were the product of the scientific, religious and cultural ideas of the time, not to mention that political economy as a discipline was in its infancy....

For there to have been a 'genocide' (a concept that didn't exist then) there would have to be intent - where was the intent?

Also why go to the trouble of destroying the backyard breadbasket of the empire and eliminating a population that was providing over 40% of the imperial army manpower and about a fifth of the Royal Navy? What was the motive?

And if extermination was the goal why allow so much food to be imported?

Micky Dolenz

MadsL wrote: »

Do I get a response or do you just want to discuss punctuation instead?

I'm easy. !@#$%^&*()

How easy?

I thought I answered you earlier.

Jawgap

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Do the ........... also express it, by chance?

so come on, sporty or non sporty?

I think you are trying to deflect.....I'm not particularly interested in facilitating that.

Micky Dolenz

Jawgap wrote: »

There's a very long thread discussing this in the History forum......I suggest reading that.

If you can't be bothered, then the short version is that the policies imposed, as brutal as they seem today, were the product of the scientific, religious and cultural ideas of the time, not to mention that political economy as a discipline was in its infancy....

For there to have been a 'genocide' (a concept that didn't exist then) there would have to be intent - where was the intent?

Also why go to the trouble of destroying the backyard breadbasket of the empire and eliminating a population that was providing over 40% of the imperial army manpower and about a fifth of the Royal Navy? What was the motive?

And if extermination was the goal why allow so much food to be imported?

I don't think anyone suggests genocide, but we were certainly the unruly part of the colony and we were oppressed and the situation was taken advantage of.

why did Tony Blair say what he said?

Micky Dolenz

Jawgap wrote: »

I think you are trying to deflect.....I'm not particularly interested in facilitating that.

Heh, I'm not one to deflect, good Sir.

I'm going to guess non sporty so.

MadsL

My name is URL wrote: »

They may not have wanted to exterminate the population but are you denying that efforts were made to keep the population down.. and I don't just mean in terms of numbers.

What is your evidence for this intention?

Why was Charles Trevelyan given the position of administrating relief in Ireland, while he himself was openly anti-Irish and made numerous genocidal remarks about Irish people?

Generally a mistake to let Civil Servants set policy.

And who was getting the food being imported into Ireland? Did most of it not go to land owners who were in cahoots with the British?

100,000 pounds worth of cornmeal was imported and distributed in 1845, too late due to bad weather, and too indigestable due to unfamiliarity with how to cook it. I doubt that first wave of assistance went to landowners.

MadsL

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I thought I answered you earlier.

Nope. I asked a very direct question. I'll repeat it for the third time.

Do you believe failing to give money for famine relief is an act of homicide?

Micky Dolenz

MadsL wrote: »

Nope. I asked a very direct question. I'll repeat it for the third time.

Do you believe failing to give money for famine relief is an act of homicide?

Yes I do.

PM Tony Blair agrees.

MadsL

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Yes I do.

PM Tony Blair agrees.

Did you give much to Somalia this year?

Be honest, have you donated to every famine appeal, if not, do you consider yourself a murderer then?

um7y1h83ge06nx

I think that question is a little broad, it would be more accurate to say "failure to give famine relief TO IT'S OWN CITIZENS" (sorry, can't bold on the phone)

At the time we were citizens of the British Empire and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.

Micky Dolenz

MadsL wrote: »

Did you give much to Somalia this year?

Be honest, have you donated to every famine appeal, if not, do you consider yourself a murderer then?

Wha? are you off your head?

I am not in control of government spending. so anything I do as an individual is irrelevant. weird line of questioning in fairness.

the British Prime Minister of the day, made a statement about the Great Famine. what are your thoughts on that?

MadsL

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I don't think anyone suggests genocide, ?

Hang on. You just did in your last post.

Either it was intentional or unintentional, which is it?

MadsL

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Wha? are you off your head?

I am not in control of government spending. so anything I do as an individual is irrelevant.

Much the same could have been said by British subjects of the day...

Micky Dolenz

MadsL wrote: »

Hang on. You just did in your last post.

Either it was intentional or unintentional, which is it?

where?

Micky Dolenz

MadsL wrote: »

Much the same could have been said by British subjects of the day...

How so?

MadsL

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

where?

MadsL wrote: »

Do you believe failing to give money for famine relief is an act of homicide?

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Yes I do.

PM Tony Blair agrees.

So if failing to relieve famine is an act of homicide, on a mass scale it is genocide?

Or am I getting you all confused and that's not what you meant to say at all.

Jawgap

Esther Obedient Numeral wrote: »

I think that question is a little broad, it would be more accurate to say "failure to give famine relief TO IT'S OWN CITIZENS" (sorry, can't bold on the phone)

At the time we were citizens of the British Empire and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.

That, and the provision of the wrong kind of relief - strange as it may seem, the prevailing thinking at the time was against charity, hence the tendency towards relief work schemes - of course, if you're going to work, you need energy in the form of food.

Charitable relief (direct aid) was not as prevalent as it should've been, and even when it was provided it failed to take account of the local situation - the corn is a good example, people didn't like it because they weren't familiar with it and because they couldn't cook it.

MadsL

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

How so?

If you are not responsible for famine in Somaila in 2014, was the average joe soap living in Leeds in 1845 responsible for the famine in Ireland?

um7y1h83ge06nx

MadsL wrote: »

If you are not responsible for famine in Somaila in 2014, was the average joe soap living in Leeds in 1845 responsible for the famine in Ireland?

Not the average Joe but the British government was as the people living in Ireland were their citizens.

Micky Dolenz

MadsL wrote: »

So if failing to relieve famine is an act of homicide, on a mass scale it is genocide?

Or am I getting you all confused and that's not what you meant to say at all.

Yeep, looks like you are getting confused,

MadsL wrote: »

If you are not responsible for famine in Somaila in 2014, was the average joe soap living in Leeds in 1845 responsible for the famine in Ireland?

I never alluded to that. It was an issue with the government of the day not the joe/jane on the street. that was never my argument.


Let me repeat my direct question to you again, you seem to be avoiding it.

Why did PM Tony Blair apologies for the Great Famine?

MadsL

Esther Obedient Numeral wrote: »

Not the average Joe but the British government was as the people living in Ireland were their citizens.

You mean subjects. As were the British people themselves, subjects of the Crown.

Half the world was part of the British Empire at this point.

edit:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Nationality_Act_1948
The status of a British Citizen did not exist until 1948

MadsL

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Yeep, looks like you are getting confused,

I never alluded to that. It was an issue with the government of the day not the joe/jane on the street. that was never my argument.

Oh I see. You never said that failing to relieve famine was an act of homicide, even though I quoted you. Perhaps you could go back an edit what you said, since you never said it.

Let me repeat my direct question to you again, you seem to be avoiding it.

Why did PM Tony Blair apologies for the Great Famine?

Not avoiding it, just wondering why I am answerable for Tony Blair's actions. I didn't vote for him. Anyway, he's a lawyer not a historian.


So to clarify, you believe who exactly is culpable of homicide? Trevelyan perhaps? Anyone else?

um7y1h83ge06nx

That is true, the British Empire was huge by then, but that does not abdicate responsibility, or at least responsibility by modern standards.

Although governments of powerful countries back then were so right wing and brutal they make Hitler look like a child throwing a tantrum.

Would they have done more if a famine broke out in Liverpool, Manchester or Newcastle?