Will yiz pay for our holiday, will yiz?

CelticRambler

Is this the latest internet "thing" - crowd-funding your holiday with a poor-me story?

UK couple stranded in the US for the next three months

OK, so babies come early, but it doesn't cost tens of thousands to post a box of clothes to NY, and why are they looking for 130 grand for "potential" costs when they haven't even contacted their insurance company yet? :mad:

Besides, they're hardly "stranded" - have people forgotten that there are still boats that sail across the Atlantic even if you can't fly?

And if the baby's in hospital and (presumably) being looked after by doctors and nurses, why can't one of them come home and go back to work, instead of them looking for money to fly their families out to the States?

Buona Fortuna

Perhaps we should make this a stickie?

SEPT 23 1989

Amos and Johnston

mad muffin

I shall play secret millionaire and donate them all the monies they need!

they called their baby, Dax…

Huh?! What was that, you said?!

I said. They called their baby, Dax.

DAX?! DAX?! :eek:

*withdraws all monies* :mad:

The Peanut

Who in their right mind planning for the arrival of a baby travels to the States for 5 days when they have no money?

Birneybau

The Peanut wrote: »

Who in their right mind planning for the arrival of a baby travels to the States for 5 days when they have no money?

Asylum seekers.

Gmol

11 week early baby is unexpected, it's also a bloody scary time (have first-hand experience of this). Not a nice position for them to be in especially with the frightening cost of US medical bills

The Peanut

Birneybau wrote: »

Asylum seekers.

Exactly. A modern spin on it.

UCDVet

Who cares?

The US based hospital has no ability to collect from people not living or working in the US. Rip up the bill, fly home to the UK, forget about it. You'll never hear another thing about it.

IF, and it's a really, really unlikely if, IF - you get a court summons in the UK - go to court. Explain what happened to the judge, that you pay UK taxes for UK health care and don't want to see your life destroyed because of the madness that is the US health care system.

The Peanut

Gmol wrote: »

11 week early baby is unexpected, it's also a bloody scary time (have first-hand experience of this). Not a nice position for them to be in especially with the frightening cost of US medical bills

Agreed, it's not nice. Don't agree with the whole begging tone though. Let someone else do the fund-raising but don't play the "we have no money card" when they've flogged an amount on a trip abroad.

Cee-Jay-Cee

It's the latest craze. There was a recent story on my FB page sbout an irish family at the same thing. They were in Spain when their father got sick and had to be hospitalised and the family were plastered over FB looking for money for them all to stay...now this was a man in his late 60's who was on holiday with his wife and grown up children and their children. I realise they were upset that their dad was ill and wanted to be near him but it was ridiculous that they expected every one else to fund their stay. Needless to say I unfriended the person I knew rather than see their sob story all over the place.

Toots

Gmol wrote: »

11 week early baby is unexpected, it's also a bloody scary time (have first-hand experience of this). Not a nice position for them to be in especially with the frightening cost of US medical bills

I completely agree, however if I was planning a trans-atlantic holiday while I was was 29 weeks pregnant, I'd sure as hell be making sure my travel insurance would cover if anything happened while I was away. I feel sorry for them, it's an awful situation to be in, and looking for help with the medical bill would be one thing. But asking people to pony up so they can fly their family out there is taking the complete piss.

cloud493

Although they shoulda planned ahead, thats a pretty **** and scary situation to find yourself in.

JaseBelleVie

Welcome to the American Health Care System!

Come for the theme parks and eagles, stay for the $130,000 f*cking aspirin.

DebDynamite

The couple say they're not sure if the insurance will cover them...you'd think they'd find out first before making a public appeal.

UCDVet

JaseHeath wrote: »

Welcome to the American Health Care System!

Come for the theme parks and eagles, stay for the $130,000 f*cking aspirin.

In fairness, the system isn't so bad as people portray it. Here, we pay a lot in taxes and are given a reasonable level of medical care. Over there, you'd pay less in taxes, and then also be expected to pay for health insurance. If you don't/can't afford health insurance, sure, it sucks. But if you have health insurance, it's not so bad.

These people should of had insurance that would cover them in the US given their medical condition - or they shouldn't have travelled their.

I spent a few years in the US while working full-time. My health care experiences were all very good. I paid less for health insurance compared to the private (VHI) insurance I have now and actually going to a doctor was much easier. I could go straight to a specialist, if I wanted, and I'd just show my insurance card + pay $20 USD. I didn't have to collect receipts or mail it in or any of that. I will say, VHI has always been easy to work with, I haven't had any problems, but compared to doing nothing, it's a lot of hassle.

In Ireland, I'd pay 60 EUR, get a sent to a specialist, pay 180 EUR. And for some reason, the process always ends up taking at least a day or two for the first doc to setup things with the second. Then when I'm done with the doctors, I'd fill out 4 pages of paper-work, get a stamp, address an envelope, mail it, wait a few weeks, then get repaid some amount (180-200 EUR or so).

Also, maybe I just have bad luck, but every time I go to a doctor in Dublin they are late by at least 15 minutes. Often times more. It feels like everything is understaffed or over-utilized; but maybe that's just a city thing and not an Ireland thing?

JaseBelleVie

UCDVet wrote: »

In fairness, the system isn't so bad as people portray it. Here, we pay a lot in taxes and are given a reasonable level of medical care. Over there, you'd pay less in taxes, and then also be expected to pay for health insurance. If you don't/can't afford health insurance, sure, it sucks. But if you have health insurance, it's not so bad.

These people should of had insurance that would cover them in the US given their medical condition - or they shouldn't have travelled their.

I spent a few years in the US while working full-time. My health care experiences were all very good. I paid less for health insurance compared to the private (VHI) insurance I have now and actually going to a doctor was much easier. I could go straight to a specialist, if I wanted, and I'd just show my insurance card + pay $20 USD. I didn't have to collect receipts or mail it in or any of that. I will say, VHI has always been easy to work with, I haven't had any problems, but compared to doing nothing, it's a lot of hassle.

In Ireland, I'd pay 60 EUR, get a sent to a specialist, pay 180 EUR. And for some reason, the process always ends up taking at least a day or two for the first doc to setup things with the second. Then when I'm done with the doctors, I'd fill out 4 pages of paper-work, get a stamp, address an envelope, mail it, wait a few weeks, then get repaid some amount (180-200 EUR or so).

Also, maybe I just have bad luck, but every time I go to a doctor in Dublin they are late by at least 15 minutes. Often times more. It feels like everything is understaffed or over-utilized; but maybe that's just a city thing and not an Ireland thing?

Even those with insurance can get shafted in a big way. There are numerous documentaries and horror stories about the American Healthcare/Health-Insurance System. And not just the vastly inferior Michael Moore romp Sicko. While Sicko is effective and probably mostly genuine, it goes for gimmicks and tugs at the heartstrings way too many times.

The American system of healthcare/insurance is a basket case. One thing I'll always have admiration for Obama is trying to get healthcare improved in America.

UCDVet

JaseHeath wrote: »

Even those with insurance can get shafted in a big way. There are numerous documentaries and horror stories about the American Healthcare/Health-Insurance System. And not just the vastly inferior Michael Moore romp Sicko. While Sicko is effective and probably mostly genuine, it goes for gimmicks and tugs at the heartstrings way too many times.

The American system of healthcare/insurance is a basket case. One thing I'll always have admiration for Obama is trying to get healthcare improved in America.

No doubt those extreme cases happen. Of course, I'm sure you could find some equivalent cases of patients getting shafted in Ireland too.

Anyway, I'm not trying to claim that the US system is better or that it doesn't have a lot of problems. It does. But having a child in the US doesn't typically come with life crippling debt.

Health care is now mandatory in the US for residents. So, showing up without health care when you're expecting a baby, or really, just travelling to the US and not having coverage of your own isn't really a reflection on the US health care system.

You're not playing by the rules. The rules are, you need health insurance.
https://www.healthcare.gov/fees-exemptions/fee-for-not-being-covered/

mikeym

I thought heavily pregnant women shouldnt travel on airplanes.

Macker2001

How were you paying less than your VHI Ours was 1400 a month for a couple and a newborn it's that a year here or pretty close.

CelticRambler

CelticRambler wrote: »

Besides, they're hardly "stranded" - have people forgotten that there are still boats that sail across the Atlantic even if you can't fly?

Do any of them take passengers? I thought that they're all freight these days, unless they're expected to sleep with the crew.

Capt'n Midnight

CelticRambler wrote: »

Besides, they're hardly "stranded" - have people forgotten that there are still boats that sail across the Atlantic even if you can't fly?

Planes are far cheaper

UCDVet wrote: »

In fairness, the system isn't so bad as people portray it. Here, we pay a lot in taxes and are given a reasonable level of medical care. Over there, you'd pay less in taxes, and then also be expected to pay for health insurance. If you don't/can't afford health insurance, sure, it sucks. But if you have health insurance, it's not so bad.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100840148

Bankruptcies resulting from unpaid medical bills will affect nearly 2 million people this year—making health care the No. 1 cause of such filings, and outpacing bankruptcies due to credit-card bills or unpaid mortgages, according to new data. And even having health insurance doesn't buffer consumers against financial hardship
...
Even outside of bankruptcy, about 56 million adults—more than 20 percent of the population between the ages of 19 and 64—will still struggle with health-care-related bills this year, according to NerdWallet Health.

And if you think only Americans without health insurance face financial troubles, think again. NerdWallet estimates nearly 10 million adults with year-round health-insurance coverage will still accumulate medical bills that they can't pay off this year.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/personal-finance/2014/02/18/medical-bankruptcies-are-still-problem-here-what-to-expect/

According to a 2013 study by NerdWallet Health, unpaid medical bills are expected to be the No.1 cause of bankruptcy filings, surpassing both credit card and mortgage debt.
...
“It’s not just the medical bills it’s really everything around the bills that insurance won’t cover,” says Ethan Austin, co-founder of Internet-based fundraising service GiveForward. He says 78% of people that file for medical bankruptcy had insurance.

Capt'n Midnight

Deleted User wrote: »

Do any of them take passengers? I thought that they're all freight these days, unless they're expected to sleep with the crew.

Cargo Ships that take passengers cost far more than airfare.
http://www.cruisepeople.co.uk/transat.htm

1. How much will it cost me to cross the Atlantic? Firstly, you shouldn't think of sea travel as a way to beat an air fare - it isn't. But unlike flying, it can be a richly rewarding experience. You should expect to pay a minimum of about $1,700 per person

This is what the journey would be like http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/cruises/1904223/Cruising-on-a-North-Atlantic-freighter.html NB, you would need insurance

cassid

The insurance probably won't pay for the medical bill. My friend had a baby in the USA at 23 weeks and the bill was over slightly over 1 million dollars.

The Ronald Mc D houses are great as they provide food and accommodation in the USA but they still have to pay for that, its not free.

The family would need money for accommodation and food and travel to the NICU every day. I presume this is where they need the help. You don't expect to deliver a baby on holiday for a few days, a 5 day visit will turn into about 8 or 9 weeks stay in the USA. Which will cost money.

In Ireland if you deliver a preterm baby there is also a huge costs associated with it. I had a 26 weeker and it cost us thousands. The hospital bill was €69,000 for one of the Dublin Neonatal Units. Travelling, parking, breast pump rental costs were unbelievable and we live in DUblin, for parents whose baby was moved up to DUblin for treatment, they have to pay for private accommodation, there is none for families of preterm babies in Ireland.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Do any of them take passengers? I thought that they're all freight these days, unless they're expected to sleep with the crew.

Yes, they do. Sometimes people with dogs who don't want to fly them home will travel by ship, as they have great kennel facilities aboard. Trip takes 10 says and is supposedly very enjoyable.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

In fairness, it's hardly a "plesae pay for our holiday" request. They went on their own ticket.

mikeym wrote: »

I thought heavily pregnant women shouldnt travel on airplanes.

Insurance company had cleared them to fly (so should be held to foot the bill, I say).

If they have filled out the correct forms (E111*) before leaving , the NHS will pick up the bill.

*I think that's the form, may have a new name now.

athtrasna

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If they have filled out the correct forms (E111*) before leaving , the NHS will pick up the bill.

*I think that's the form, may have a new name now.

That only applies in the EU!

Gyalist

Similar thing happened to my friend and his wife about 9 years ago. They were on a short break in NY when his wife was just over six months pregnant. She went into labour early and the baby had to stay in hospital for 10 weeks. They incurred a bill of over $100k and while they paid the hospital what they could, they returned to Dublin with most of the bill unpaid. They didn't pay it and the hospital never pursued them for the balance.

They did go back to the hospital just over a year later to introduce their daughter to the staff that looked after her.

Gyalist

Just to wrap up this story -

A British couple who feared a $200,000 (£130,000) medical bill after their baby was born 11 weeks premature while they were on vacation in New York breathed a little easier on Friday as the hospital caring for their son said it would “ensure that there will be no financial impact to the family”.

Katie Amos and Lee Johnston’s baby, Dax, reportedly born weighing 3lbs, is in the neonatal intensive care unit at Lenox Hill hospital in Manhattan.

LINK

percy212

Hospitals in the US regularly treat unfortunate holiday makers for free. They cannot by law turn anyone away. They eat the costs if you are foreign and have no insurance. It has to be an emergency though......source - the ER doctors at NYU.

UCDVet

percy212 wrote: »

Hospitals in the US regularly treat unfortunate holiday makers for free. They cannot by law turn anyone away. They eat the costs if you are foreign and have no insurance. It has to be an emergency though......source - the ER doctors at NYU.

Even if you are a local, it's basically the same thing. I think the saying is, 'You can't get blood from a turnip'. The hospital can send me a bill for 500,000 USD but if all I've got is $200 in my savings account, they won't get anything. They can sell the debt to bill collectors or they can take me to court. If they take me to court, they'll spend a lot in legal fees, go in front of a judge, who might garnish my wages. But almost certainly not. In any case, bankruptcy laws are fairly forgiving in the US, so I'd laugh at your 500k big and declare bankruptcy. The only time it's really a problem is for comfortably well-to-do people, but not rich.

If you've got a nice house, and savings, and then get hit with a giant bill....when you declare bankruptcy there is a very good chance you'll lose a lot of what you have. No doubt, that sucks, but the catch is, if you're comfortable and have a nice house and savings, you should have insurance anyway.

The big problem is preventative care and stuff like that. That's a big part of why the infant mortality rate is so high in the US.

cson

Does the kid get US citizenship out of interest?

thelad95

Birneybau wrote: »

Asylum Attention seekers.

.

uck51js9zml2yt

I've been following this on my news feed.
The baby was early, her doctor cleared her for travel.
Due to its premature nature, the hospital won't release the baby till March.
Hence huge hospital and living bills.
The parents are staying in the Ronald McDonald's house.
The hospital have also agreed to waive the fees in the circumstances.

Granted, I don't know why they flew but if her doctor cleared her there was obviously no immediate risk.
I just hope those who got up on their high horses never find themselves in a position where their baby is born prematurely or needs extensive hospitalisation at home or abroad.

mikemac1

The Peanut wrote: »

Who in their right mind planning for the arrival of a baby travels to the States for 5 days when they have no money?

It was happening in this country and then Michael McDowell had the citizenship referendum

my friend

Gyalist wrote: »

Similar thing happened to my friend and his wife about 9 years ago. They were on a short break in NY when his wife was just over six months pregnant. She went into labour early and the baby had to stay in hospital for 10 weeks. They incurred a bill of over $100k and while they paid the hospital what they could, they returned to Dublin with most of the bill unpaid. They didn't pay it and the hospital never pursued them for the balance.

They did go back to the hospital just over a year later to introduce their daughter to the staff that looked after her.

''Hi we're the deadbeats that didn't settle our bill dropping by on at least our 2nd trip to NYC in 12 months''

Typical up their own hole selfish idiots.

MadsL

There's a reason they invented travel insurance.

Do people still not get the idea?

Specialun

The money they alreadygot donations of..do they hand it back or go to tommy h shop and some chucky cheese after

MadsL

MadsL wrote: »

There's a reason they invented travel insurance.

Do people still not get the idea?

Unfortunately, this is the sort of case where the insurance companies will try to wriggle out of paying!

Toots

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jan/02/british-couple-new-york-hospital-bill-early-birth

The couple did not have travel insurance, but had received clearance from their doctor to fly, Crow said, before they undertook their five-day trip to New York.

I just can't get my head around this. What on earth would make you think travelling without insurance while pregnant (or even not pregnant) is a good idea?

MadsL

Deleted User wrote: »

Unfortunately, this is the sort of case where the insurance companies will try to wriggle out of paying!

They didn't have any to begin wuth!!

Perhaps airlines should start asking on check-in.

MadsL

MadsL wrote: »

They didn't have any to begin wuth!!

Perhaps airlines should start asking on check-in.

What do the airlines have to do with the passenger’s insurance arrangements outside of the flight.

The Peanut

Deleted User wrote: »

What do the airlines have to do with the passenger’s insurance arrangements outside of the flight.

Presume it's to do with the fact they people are encouraged to buy travel insurance when they are flying which typically covers the duration of the stay also.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

The Peanut wrote: »

Presume it's to do with the fact they people are encouraged to buy travel insurance when they are flying which typically covers the duration of the stay also.

Pretty sure it's only to cover flight/luggage affected claims. Health insurance is copletely different.

I'd like to see Ryanair's responce to receving a claim, that's for sure!

PLL

Has anyone been on the fundraising page recently? Just had a look there and they have updated it saying the insurance company have agreed to pay all medical bills but this is written underneath:

"Lee and Katie will still be faced with some very large costs including-

1- Loss of Income

2- House Rental and Bills

3- Living costs in the USA.

4- Everything for Dax."

You have got to be kidding me. WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD! SH*T HAPPENS! That does not mean other people have to fund you now. I had a child young and there was no way I would have had the money to go to New York, I still don't have the money now.

They are on ~£9,000.

Shopping spree in NYC so it is.


Edit: The are a lot of links saying it is all a scam

CrazyRabbit

Gmol wrote: »

11 week early baby is unexpected, it's also a bloody scary time (have first-hand experience of this). Not a nice position for them to be in especially with the frightening cost of US medical bills

Yeah. When I was in the US on holiday, I got lost and took a wrong turn. I walked across hospital grounds to get back to the main road. A week later I got a $860 bill from the hospital for 'misc services'.

Seriously though. Medical bills aren't an issue here as they have full medical insurance. It's accommodation, food and travel costs for about 3 months. Certainly expensive, but nowhere in the region of the estimate they are giving. $10,000 is more than adequate. $20,000 if you include lost income.

mikom

PLL wrote: »

Has anyone been on the fundraising page recently? Just had a look there and they have updated it saying the insurance company have agreed to pay all medical bills but this is written underneath:

"Lee and Katie will still be faced with some very large costs including-

1- Loss of Income

2- House Rental and Bills

3- Living costs in the USA.

4- Everything for Dax."

5- Creatine shakes for daddy

Venus In Furs

mikeym wrote: »

I thought heavily pregnant women shouldnt travel on airplanes.

I think they can up to about 35 weeks though, so she was well in advance of that.
I don't see anything wrong with going for a five-day break to New York when 29 weeks pregnant, I do however see a lot wrong with not making provisions - for any health issue that might arise, not just the baby being so premature (and he was very very much so in fairness).

darkpagandeath

I moved to Ireland when I was a teenager, Since then I have incurred lot's of unexpected costs like.

Food, Rent, Price of living in Ireland.

I would appreciate any donations to my Cf page..... :pac::D

This seems to be the new Nigerian angle.

Grayson

Toots wrote: »

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jan/02/british-couple-new-york-hospital-bill-early-birth



I just can't get my head around this. What on earth would make you think travelling without insurance while pregnant (or even not pregnant) is a good idea?

Apparently most travel insurance doesn't include pregnancy. It includes accidents and emergency stuff but not pregnancy. So there's a good chance they might have got stuck with bills anyway.

UCDVet wrote: »

Even if you are a local, it's basically the same thing. I think the saying is, 'You can't get blood from a turnip'. The hospital can send me a bill for 500,000 USD but if all I've got is $200 in my savings account, they won't get anything. They can sell the debt to bill collectors or they can take me to court. If they take me to court, they'll spend a lot in legal fees, go in front of a judge, who might garnish my wages. But almost certainly not. In any case, bankruptcy laws are fairly forgiving in the US, so I'd laugh at your 500k big and declare bankruptcy. The only time it's really a problem is for comfortably well-to-do people, but not rich.

If you've got a nice house, and savings, and then get hit with a giant bill....when you declare bankruptcy there is a very good chance you'll lose a lot of what you have. No doubt, that sucks, but the catch is, if you're comfortable and have a nice house and savings, you should have insurance anyway.

The big problem is preventative care and stuff like that. That's a big part of why the infant mortality rate is so high in the US.

From what I know it is possible for a US company to start proceedings in the UK. It's part of some bilateral treaty. So the hospital could in fact take all their positions, house etc...