Ireland's Most Under Appreciated Sporting Achievement

Terrontress

Bridge93 wrote: »

So Robbie Keane's goals are meant to beat teams by themselves. He scored away in France in the playoff, what more do you want from him? To save the French goal himself too? Football is an 11 man game just because we don't win doesn't mean his record means less. He scored goals against teams of all abilities, the results don't change that.
I suppose Shane Williams tries for Wales mean less because he spent half his time in a crap Welsh side? What about Shearers goals at Newcastle?

He has had the service.

He has played with some outstanding goalkeepers, defenders, midfielders. World class. He has not performed to the same level as, for example, Shay Given, Roy Keane or Damien Duff at their peak. And that's just three off the top of my head.

What more do I want from him? 15 year career? More than one goal in an ultimately fruitless match.

Bridge93

Terrontress wrote: »

If you need to go back to 1999 to prove your point then you're on to a losing battle already.

I'm not saying he hasn't achieved anything, but he is overly lauded in my opinion and his record papers over the cracks of a mediocre international career.

Incredibly ignorant. The guy is the 13th highest international scorer of all time. That while playing in an average team his whole career. Some of those ahead of him are from Trinidad and Thailand etc who play dross ever international game.

How someone with 65 international goals can have a mediocre career is beyond me. What would you consider a successful one for him? 100 goals? Hat tricks against Italy, France and Germany home and away to single handidly qualify us?

errlloyd

Eddie O Sullivans time as the Irish Rugby coach gets serious stick. He left in disgrace after the 07-08 season. But the team did learn a lot from him and rugby. I'm not saying he was a great coach, just he gets more criticism than he perhaps deserves.

Terrontress

Bridge93 wrote: »

Incredibly ignorant. The guy is the 13th highest international scorer of all time. That while playing in an average team his whole career. Some of those ahead of him are from Trinidad and Thailand etc who play dross ever international game.

How someone with 65 international goals can have a mediocre career is beyond me. What would you consider a successful one for him? 100 goals? Hat tricks against Italy, France and Germany home and away to single handidly qualify us?

Remove friendlies, penalties and sides ranked less than 50 places beneath and you'd be left with about 10 goals. And how many of those won games?

I'm not aware of a hat trick against Germany home or away. I did see he got one against Gibraltar.

AndonHandon

Terrontress wrote: »

How many decent sides has he been in a winning team against in a competitive match? Big European sides like Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Russia?

It is my belief that Robbie will put away five against Andorra, adding to his tally, but I'm not aware of his goal scoring ever having mattered.

This was proven wrong by a poster who pointed out goals in major tournaments and qualification games (bear in mind we rarely even qualify for these major tournaments) which lead to draws so you have now shifted the goalposts when in fact you just have a grudge against Keane.

Bridge93

So much nonsense
Some goals don't count as they were too long ago
Some don't count as the opposition weren't deemed good enough
Some don't count because the games were only friendly matches
Some don't count because the team didn't win
Of course there's only about 10 goals left, seen as your criteria only fit about 25 international games. thankfully it's the view of a serious minority.

Terrontress

Bridge93 wrote: »

So much nonsense
Some goals don't count as they were too long ago
Some don't count as the opposition weren't deemed good enough
Some don't count because the games were only friendly matches
Some don't count because the team didn't win
Of course there's only about 10 goals left, seen as your criteria only fit about 25 international games. thankfully it's the view of a serious minority.

Surely you can see the difference in a goal scored against Gibraltar as one against Germany?

Or one in a friendly, where an opposition manager is trying new blood out, compared with one where both teams are fighting for qualification or progression.

You surely have to concede that there is a difference.

Keane's job has been to score goals and, while he has done it, he hasn't done it when it has mattered.

Billy86

Terrontress wrote: »

How many decent sides has he been in a winning team against in a competitive match? Big European sides like Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Russia?

It is my belief that Robbie will put away five against Andorra, adding to his tally, but I'm not aware of his goal scoring ever having mattered.

What is your opinion on the international careers of Andriy Shevchenko, Samuel Eto'o and Didier Drogba?

Terrontress wrote: »

He has had the service.

He has played with some outstanding goalkeepers, defenders, midfielders. World class. He has not performed to the same level as, for example, Shay Given, Roy Keane or Damien Duff at their peak. And that's just three off the top of my head.

What more do I want from him? 15 year career? More than one goal in an ultimately fruitless match.

What "world class" defenders has he played with? In goals Given was for Ireland, Roy Keane definitely was, and Duff was very good but not world class outside of about a two year spell. So who are you referring to? Gary Doherty? Gary Breen? Stephen Kelly? Glenn Whelan? Zinedine Skilbane? Stephen Hunt? Paul McShane? Jonathon "on the wing" Walters? Sean St. Ledger? Dean Kiely? Lee Carsley? Graeme Kavanagh? Who are these 'world class' players you are referring to?

How come you aren't trying to write off Roy Keane, Duff and Given by the way, since you are setting wins as the benchmark? Seem just a little like you've got an agenda here.

Terrontress

I'm just saying that his achievements are not under appreciated, as per the thread title.

I'd say Richie Dunne's goal record is under appreciated. Robbie Keane? Too much is made of it.

Witchie

Veterans/Masters Athletes. I know loads (including my dad) who have won so many World and European medals and yet it doesn't even make column inches in the national papers.

KungPao

If Bobbie Keane was one of those Irish lads with an English accent, people would be all over him.

Or an accent like that rugby fella, that talks about tomatoes being a fruit. But as Robbie has an accent like a Tallaght man who likes to travel, he gets loadsa stick.

Fact.

The Golden Miller

Witchie wrote: »

Veterans/Masters Athletes. I know loads (including my dad) who have won so many World and European medals and yet it doesn't even make column inches in the national papers.

That's because those athlete's were never close tothe top in their chosen sport (a few were maybe). I used to do athletics myself and I know a few veteran athletes who have competed and won for Ireland on the international stage, and although it's admirable, it's not that great an achievement. Don't get me wrong, it takes serious dedication and commitment, but any half decent athlete (before they ran at veteran level) who puts serious dedication and commitment in can win and compete very highly at veteran level. The very top athletes quit before veteran level or put no effort in any more and just do it for a bit of fun.

The Golden Miller

Terrontress wrote: »

Surely you can see the difference in a goal scored against Gibraltar as one against Germany?

Or one in a friendly, where an opposition manager is trying new blood out, compared with one where both teams are fighting for qualification or progression.

You surely have to concede that there is a difference.

Keane's job has been to score goals and, while he has done it, he hasn't done it when it has mattered.

Keane has scored against nearly all the top teams Ireland have had the limited opportunity to play against.

Billy86

One more point - Robbie Keane has the fourth most international goals in European history. The three guys above him (Kocsis, Puskas, Muller) all played for absolute powerhouse teams, the two Hungarians in a time with far, far more goals per game, and in a time when there was an even bigger disparity between the big teams (like they played for) and the minnows. Despite this, Keane has more competitive goals than any of those three, even allowing for regional competitions for the Hungarians (such as the Balkan Cup and Dr. Gero Cup) while at the same time not allowing for Robbie Keane's goals in the Nations Cup a few years back.

He also has more competitive goals than Pele, again allowing for regional competitions like the Oswaldo Cruz trophy, O'Higgins Cup, Atlantic Cup and Taca das Nacoes, while not allowing for the Nations Cup for Keane. Same for Batistuta (allowing for the King Fahd Cup, Artemio Franchi Cup and Kirin Cup but not allowing the Nations Cup for Keane), David Villa, Jan Koller, Ibrahimovic, and Cristiano Ronaldo.

In fact I would be sure that as of right now, Robbie Keane is the second highest scorer of competitive goals in the history of European and South American football after Klose... while playing for an Irish team that has otherwise been average at best for the majority of his career. Ronaldo is only one or two behind him so it's not bound to last beyond 2015, but that's a fantastic achievement in itself.

EDIT: Forgot to check and yes, he has more competitive international goals than Romario and Brazilian Ronaldo, too.

iDave

Denis Irwins career in general.

Eddie Irvine only being a few points off a world title.

Jim McGuiness taking an average team to an All Ireland. ( boo hoo they hand passed a lot)

Dirty Dingus McGee

Fermanagh getting to the All Ireland Semi Final in 2004 and beating a great Armagh team on the way.They have very little tradition and a have an absolutely tiny pick.It will never happen again.

3DataModem

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Kiely

tritium

Ireland have had lots of magnificent and underappreciated spotting achievements, largely due to there being limited reporting or public awareness of minority sports here (anything outside soccer/rugby/ GAA/ golf/boxing, occasionally athletics and one or two others) . that's not a criticism by the way, the size of the country means its remarkable that we have the sporting diversity we do IMHO.

We've had world champions in kickboxing , taekwondo and other martial arts, top class performances in cycling, women's rugby grand slam (A late bandwagon) and quite a few others. What makes them particularly impressive is that in spite of being minority sports here they usually have to compete against opposition who are pro or semi pro with much better funding and facilities

Wedwood

Shamrock Rovers beating Partizan Belgrade in 2011 to qualify for the group stages of the Europa League.

I'm including both legs of the tie.

In the first leg in Tallaght, Gary McCabe scored a late equaliser to grab a 1-1 draw.

In the second leg, Rovers again came from behind to win 2-1 with goals from Pat Sullivan and Stephen O'Donnell.

major bill

Wedwood wrote: »

Shamrock Rovers beating Partizan Belgrade in 2011 to qualify for the group stages of the Europa League.

I'm including both legs of the tie.

In the first leg in Tallaght, Gary McCabe scored a late equaliser to grab a 1-1 draw.

In the second leg, Rovers again came from behind to win 2-1 with goals from Pat Sullivan and Stephen O'Donnell.

+1 It got Fairly decent coverage at the time but I think people forget they were only a part-time team so was an amazing feat to even get the result in Belgrade

Michael O'Neill as a manager, very unappreciated.

Grand Moff Tarkin

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Without a doubt it was coming 3rd in 1997 Youth World Cup. Brian Kerr was manager.

Naturally the 'Greatest Fans in the World' have absolutely no idea that an Irish soccer team came very close to winning a World Cup. I reckon because a lot of the players were from the League of Ireland that both RTE and the "Greatest Fans in the World" didn't give a toss.

I think that is very unfortunate. So I would like to nominate this as Ireland's most under appreciated sporting achievement.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_FIFA_World_Youth_Championship

Admit it you were always the last one picked for a kick about in school during break.

bobbysands81

Ireland's most underrated sporting achievement is:

The establishment and continued growth of the Gaelic Athletic Association.

Mardy Bum

Paul Brady the four time world handball champion is probably the most unappreciated. This feat was carried out over 12 years.

Grand Moff Tarkin

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Ireland's most underrated sporting achievement is:

The establishment and continued growth of the Gaelic Athletic Association.

They have held back every other sporting code in the country by at least 50 years. The "football" is for lads who could not make it playing a real sport like soccer and as for hurling there is nothing even remotely enjoyable about watching 30 people beat each other with sticks while chasing a little ball.

Anesthetize

Has to be Joey Dunlop. He achieved so much in motorcycling over the course of his long career yet most Irish people don't recognise this. I guess it could be down to the fact that the media in this country don't give much of a toss about motorsport.

SwiftJustice

bur wrote: »

Seamus winning the WWE HW championship.

Steve Casey is the greatest Irish Sportsman and noone has heard of him:

• Won the Irish National Rowing title in 1930, 31, 32
• Qualified for the 1936 Olympic's in rowing
• Went over to America and became world Heavyweight Wrestling Champion of the World which he defended for 9 years
• In 1940 in a boxing match he defeated US champion Tiger Warrenton
• Fought in WW2
• Retired undefeared in 1947 and opened a pub. Raiders broke into the bar one night and he took a bullet defending his customers.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »

They have held back every other sporting code in the country by at least 50 years. The "football" is for lads who could not make it playing a real sport like soccer and as for hurling there is nothing even remotely enjoyable about watching 30 people beat each other with sticks while chasing a little ball.

I think you just proved with your attitude in your post above exactly why the growth of the GAA has been such an achievement.

Terrontress

Terrontress wrote: »

How many decent sides has he been in a winning team against in a competitive match? Big European sides like Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Russia?

It is my belief that Robbie will put away five against Andorra, adding to his tally, but I'm not aware of his goal scoring ever having mattered.

He's scored in competitive matches against at least three of those teams.

As for being on the winning team, it's hardly his fault he has been surrounded by mediocrity for most of his international career.

And if scoring 5 against minnows was so easy, all pro's would be doing it

Chivito550

Any athletics achievement is underrated. Gillian O'Sullivan's World silver medal in 2003 went under the radar. Ciara Mageean's World Junior 1500m (the only non African to win a distance medal that year) in 2010. She's a ridiculous talent. Even Sonia O'Sullivan was grossly under appreciated. Her success was just taken for granted and a lot of people today do not realise how absolutely brilliant she was. She was the undisputed best in the world for about 3-4 years over all distances from 1500m to 5000m in what is a GLOBAL sport. One of the very few true global sports. The fact she was only voted 7th on RTEs greatest sportsperson ever from 5 or 6 years ago speaks volumes for how under appreciated she is.

bobbysands81

Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »

They have held back every other sporting code in the country by at least 50 years. The "football" is for lads who could not make it playing a real sport like soccer and as for hurling there is nothing even remotely enjoyable about watching 30 people beat each other with sticks while chasing a little ball.

There's no doubt that there used to be savage bigotry within the GAA, now it seems that most of the savage bigotry is directed towards the GAA.

ford2600

SwiftJustice wrote: »

Steve Casey is the greatest Irish Sportsman and noone has heard of him:

• Won the Irish National Rowing title in 1930, 31, 32
• Qualified for the 1936 Olympic's in rowing
• Went over to America and became world Heavyweight Wrestling Champion of the World which he defended for 9 years
• In 1940 in a boxing match he defeated US champion Tiger Warrenton
• Fought in WW2
• Retired undefeared in 1947 and opened a pub. Raiders broke into the bar one night and he took a bullet defending his customers.

Good post.

Dr Pat O'Callaghan from same era. Got to meet the twice Olympic Gold champion twice as a young lad

WesternZulu

Mayo's generosity to other counties in All-Ireland finals.

chrysagon

Everyones opinions vary, to list mine,

Tom Sharkey, from Dundalk, who fought James J Jeffries, for World heavyweight boxing title , before 1900, who at the time was considered unbeatable, and who later claimed Sharkey was his toughest opponent. Tom KO 37 oppponents in his 40 wins, and was named in RINGS magazine 100 greatest punchers of all time, a guy forgotten through time.

Molester Stallone II

Kerry winning a hurling All Ireland before Kilkenny.

Brendan Flowers

Ireland's achievements in Formula 1 in 1999. We had an Irish team (Jordan) and an Irish driver (Eddie Irvine) winning races and both fighting for the World Championships that year.

kfallon

Me, as an Irishman, getting justice in a British court of law in 2007 when they tried to do me for throwing races....the cúnts :mad:

:pac:

chrysagon

ford2600 wrote: »

Good post.

Dr Pat O'Callaghan from same era. Got to meet the twice Olympic Gold champion twice as a young lad

Matt McGrath from Tipperary, who won gold in 1912 olympics, and 2 silvers in 2 other Olympic games, although representing the USA, in the Hammer throw.

maniac2003

there is an Irish female ultra runner her name escapes me. she's broken record after record over last few years. just found it Ruthann sheahan.

Grand Moff Tarkin

bobbysands81 wrote: »

There's no doubt that there used to be savage bigotry within the GAA, now it seems that most of the savage bigotry is directed towards the GAA.

My eldest stopped playing at club level when he was told by his trainers he had to pick either hurling or not to bother coming back. He has stuck with the soccer and has not looked back since.

ford2600

maniac2003 wrote: »

there is an Irish female ultra runner her name escapes me. she's broken record after record over last few years. just found it Ruthann sheahan.

There is also Donovan from Galway an ultra runner. Won the first antarctic marathon and also did a 100 mile run there.

Honorable mention to Donncha Cuttriss twice RAAM finisher

irish coldplayer

Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »

My eldest stopped playing at club level when he was told by his trainers he had to pick either hurling or not to bother coming back. He has stuck with the soccer and has not looked back since.

Yeah because no rugby or soccer coach in history ever told a player to choose between
their sport and another...
Nice chip on your shoulder

Dirty Dingus McGee

Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »

My eldest stopped playing at club level when he was told by his trainers he had to pick either hurling or not to bother coming back. He has stuck with the soccer and has not looked back since.

A few years ago Edenderry told about 15 of their players to concentrate properly on playing football or don't bother. As a result the players who were playing soccer left and joined another club. However Edenderry went on as complete outsiders to win the county championship the next year.If teams want to succeed a lot of times they have to be fairly hard on the players and demand more commitment.May not be what some people want but it probably works in a lot of cases.

Grand Moff Tarkin

irish coldplayer wrote: »

Yeah because no rugby or soccer coach in history ever told a player to choose between
their sport and another...
Nice chip on your shoulder

I have no chip on my shoulder. If anything I am happy he stopped playing the gaa as he is very good at the soccer and if he wanted to follow his dream across the water and play for one of the top clubs I am all for that.

Hammer Archer

Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »

They have held back every other sporting code in the country by at least 50 years. The "football" is for lads who could not make it playing a real sport like soccer and as for hurling there is nothing even remotely enjoyable about watching 30 people beat each other with sticks while chasing a little ball.

And sailing. A load of men in a big boat floating around in the sea.
And shouting. A load of men going around shouting.
And so forth.

kenco

Eddy Irvine is an interesting one as he did come close to a world championship in F1 but....it was only as Schumi broke his leg and his replacement (Salo) gifted a couple of race wins to him. Not bad really as you have to be the position in the first place but overall his career never really hit the peaks it at one time promised.

In the context of the time and the opposition Eddie Jordan did very well in F1 team managment. Came close the year above when Frentzen had a mech failure when leading one of the last races. They were unlucky. There was an Irish driver (forget his name) who might have driven for Jordan in the early days but it didnt happen. Pity as this guy was apparently as good as anyone but didnt have the application. If he was with Jordan and they had a good engine the world might have been their oyster but such are the way of these things....just remebered his name Tommy Byrne there a good book on him for anyone whos interested

However in my view its our equestrian heroes who are definitey underappreciated. If horse racing was compared go F1 the dominent nation by a long way would be Ireland. We breed the best horses our Trainers are regarded as some of the best and then when it comes to jockies we pretty much have most of the top 10 in flat anf national hunt (let alone show jumping though why that has not been better is a whole other discussion....)

on the superstar jockey front way to many to mention (which proves the point) but in context guys like Pat Eddery, Ruby Walsh, etc are up there with Senna, Schumacer, etc but for whatever reason we dont appreciate their phenomenal achievements. Weld, Ox, O'Brien to name a few have achieved amazing success as Trainers but again dont really get widespread acclaim...

irishfeen

Don't know if already mentioned but Michelle Smith's achievement in 1996 (3 gold and 1 bronze) has been totally forgotten by most. Her medals stand and she was as clean as everyone else at the games (she was tested), she won medals and didn't come even close to breaking any records.

kfallon

kenco wrote: »

on the superstar jockey front way to many to mention (which proves the point) but in context guys like Pat Eddery, Ruby Walsh, etc are up there with Senna, Schumacer, etc but for whatever reason we dont appreciate their phenomenal achievements.

*Ahem*......

chrysagon

irishfeen wrote: »

Don't know if already mentioned but Michelle Smith's achievement in 1996 (3 gold and 1 bronze) has been totally forgotten by most. Her medals stand and she was as clean as everyone else at the games (she was tested), she won medals and didn't come even close to breaking any records.

pandoras box...
and yes at the time she passed the tests, and when u read about so called American superstar athletes during 80s and 90s failing out of competition drugs tests, and it passed to one side, maybe the Irish were to honest!!:rolleyes:

kenco

kfallon wrote: »

*Ahem*......

Didnt want to embarrass you!!!

anncoates

To be fair, most big sporting achievements get a lot of recognition. The problem a lot - not all - of Irish sports fans have is supporting - any - Irish sports teams when they're in less fashionable and ignominious periods.