Bank selling house with sitting tenant

muffler

Guys, some of you may be able to offer some advice or maybe it might just be crumbs of comfort.

My daughter lives in a bungalow she has rented and just this morning the landlord has told her that he is insolvent and the bank is taking over ownership of the house. Where does that leave her? Does she have any rights as a "sitting tenant" which I assume means that the bank cant evict her? Maybe Im wrong in that assumption and if I am has she any options open to her?

Needless to say she is very ditressed over this situation so any help or advice would be greatly apprciated.

athtrasna

muffler wrote: »

Guys, some of you may be able to offer some advice or maybe it might just be crumbs of comfort.

My daughter lives in a bungalow she has rented and just this morning the landlord has told her that he is insolvent and the bank is taking over ownership of the house. Where does that leave her? Does she have any rights as a "sitting tenant" which I assume means that the bank cant evict her? Maybe Im wrong in that assumption and if I am has she any options open to her?

Needless to say she is very ditressed over this situation so any help or advice would be greatly apprciated.

What kind of lease does she have? How long is she living there

muffler

athtrasna wrote: »

What kind of lease does she have? How long is she living there

Im not sure of the lease details but she has been there for about 13 or 14 months.

The only other thing the landlord told her (not sure if this is his take on it or if he's quoting the bank) was that the bank would have to give her notice to quit. Im just after being told that so apologies for not mentioning it inmy first post.

In any event he's giving her the deposit back next week which probably indicates that he's washing his hands off it then

Kelly06

muffler wrote: »

Im not sure of the lease details but she has been there for about 13 or 14 months.

The only other thing the landlord told her (not sure if this is his take on it or if he's quoting the bank) was that the bank would have to give her notice to quit. Im just after being told that so apologies for not mentioning it inmy first post.

In any event he's giving her the deposit back next week which probably indicates that he's washing his hands off it then

It's great that she is getting her deposit back, the landlord seems very genuine !

muffler

Kelly06 wrote: »

It's great that she is getting her deposit back, the landlord seems very genuine !

Yeah, he's a sound enough guy. I know him (not very well though) and other members of his family. He's getting to keep his own house which is on a family farm but apparently he has to sell part of the farm to raise some money Id assume.

the_syco

muffler wrote: »

the landlord has told her that he is insolvent and the bank is taking over ownership of the house.

Insolvent often means no money, and thus no deposit.

muffler wrote: »

In any event he's giving her the deposit back next week which probably indicates that he's washing his hands off it then

Take the deposit and run, tbh.

Banks don't always deal well with tenants, and should anything go wrong with the house that needs fixing, it may not be clear whom to contact to fix it.

The_Conductor

Muffler- I'm sorry- but banks almost unilaterly give tenants immediate notice to vacate the property. They may appoint a rent collector as an interim measure- but they are not interested in letting the property- they want it sold, they want cold hard cash- not an ongoing trickle.

Its really decent of the landlord to give her back her deposit- in cases where the bank are repossessing the property- its almost unheard of for tenants to get their deposits back- the landlord really is going the extra mile on this.

I'd echo what the others have said- take the money and find somewhere else asap. She is going to have to move- and sooner rather than later- as the bank cannot sell the property with a sitting tenant (they will need vacant possession).

Sorry.

muffler

Thanks for the comments guys. The rent was always paid directly in cash to the landlord so maybe that explains why the deposit is being returned.

The issue of the bank taking possession of the house and selling is what Im more concerned about. My daughter knows she will have to vacate the property and its some day next week that ownership of the house will transfer to the bank.

They have been informed by the landlord that there is a tenant and they took details of the rent paid etc but I know myself there's no way they are interested in renting the property and Im assuming they will put it on the market immediately. I think what they will try to do is put her on a 2, 3 or 4 week notice to vacate and charge her for every week that she remains there from when they take ownership of the house next week.

Its finding alternative accommodation is the problem. She has a 3 year old son and there isn't much available locally that would suit her needs.

I'm just wondering if anyone has had experience of this type of situation and how long (estimate) would the bank give her to find somewhere else.

...__...

You would wonder why in the rental climate at the moment banks dont capatilise on this perhaps set up a small division who looks after the property until its sold or better still hang on to them while rents are sky high?

The_Conductor

...__... wrote: »

You would wonder why in the rental climate at the moment banks dont capatilise on this perhaps set up a small division who looks after the property until its sold or better still hang on to them while rents are sky high?

Because they don't want to get into the nitty gritty of managing tenanted properties. I can envisage an irate tenant turning up at the customer service desk of their local Ulster Bank with a length of cable- asking if this is the right type of cable to extend their TV somewhere on the wall (or some such ridiculousness).

Banks want to realise their loans- its the business they are in- they are not in it for the long haul- and they do most certainly not want to get diverted down side tracks of property management- and all that that entails.........

Rents may be sky-high at the moment- but so too are prices- indeed- the rents, high as they are, do not support current property prices- and most banks look at the cold hard figures- and they all spell out- sell asap- lock in current prices- maybe even have a surplus to return to the original mortgator- but sell, sell, sell.........

They (the banks) do use a central rent collection agency- as a temporary measure- while selling properties- however- its rent collection- nothing else- and if anything goes wrong- tough luck on the tenants............

In a case like this- I'd actually suggest Muffler's daughter approach the bank with an offer- if she is in a position to organise the finances. It may very well be the case that they may consider it (providing its not deviating from market value)- but it would save them putting it on the market- and if the OP's daughter is paying market rent- the mortgage repayments might in actual fact be cheaper than her current rent.........

Marcusm

muffler wrote: »

Thanks for the comments guys. The rent was always paid directly in cash to the landlord so maybe that explains why the deposit is being returned.

The issue of the bank taking possession of the house and selling is what Im more concerned about. My daughter knows she will have to vacate the property and its some day next week that ownership of the house will transfer to the bank.

They have been informed by the landlord that there is a tenant and they took details of the rent paid etc but I know myself there's no way they are interested in renting the property and Im assuming they will put it on the market immediately. I think what they will try to do is put her on a 2, 3 or 4 week notice to vacate and charge her for every week that she remains there from when they take ownership of the house next week.

Its finding alternative accommodation is the problem. She has a 3 year old son and there isn't much available locally that would suit her needs.

I'm just wondering if anyone has had experience of this type of situation and how long (estimate) would the bank give her to find somewhere else.

If they want to r daughter to leave, I doubt that they would of accept any rent for the "notice" period as to do so would be to acknowledge your daughter's RTA entitlements. If they accept the rent they become the landlord and must abide by the relevant notice provisions. If they repossess the house and have not previously agreed to the tenancy they would not regard themselves as bound by it.

muffler

Thanks again guys for all the info and comments.

Unfortunately my daughter isn't in a position to get a mortgage for now anyhow. Rent wise she's been paying €100 a week which in fairness is cheap but then again rent is a lot cheaper here compared to the likes of Dublin and surrounding areas. But the the outstanding mortgage payable to the bank I believe is close to 200k so I cant see the bank even contemplating any type of arrangement other than whatever notice they give her to vacate.

I'll know a wee bit more next week as the sale will most likely be given to a particular auctioneer who I know very well and he will be able to shed some light on the matter...hopefully.

But she's off to look at another house in 30 minutes from now so the search begins.

The_Conductor

Muffler- 200k seems very high for the area- if you don't mind my saying so. Are you sure its worth this much? If so- unfortunately- your daughter probably has been getting it for a song- 100 a week is nowhere near the rental yield a property of this value- even given the area, would be expected to rent for......

I'm really sorry for you and your daughter- the best advice I can give you both is to get hunting asap- and to readjust your daughter's expectations downwards- there is no way on earth she is going to get a similar property at the rent she has been paying.

Kristopherus

Muffler, is the house in the North or the South?

percy212

The owner owes the bank 200k. That does not mean market value of the rented house is 200k. He may have bought at boom time or rolled a spanish apartment into that loan.

You should ask a local realtor (preferably one you know and trust), what kind of offer might be accepted on the house. Your daughter may be able to get a loan from your county council to make a purchase. A house I personally know of on an estate in a medium sized midlands town was bought for 260k during the madness, and was sold 4 months ago by the bank, for 80k. It can't hurt to ask.

muffler

The_Conductor wrote: »

Muffler- 200k seems very high for the area- if you don't mind my saying so. Are you sure its worth this much? If so- unfortunately- your daughter probably has been getting it for a song- 100 a week is nowhere near the rental yield a property of this value- even given the area, would be expected to rent for......

The house is nowhere near that value. Id imagine 90k - 100k would buy it today but I assume the landlord has paid little or nothing of the mortgage he had on it and would have accrued a lot of interest hence the near 200k outstanding due to the bank

The_Conductor wrote: »

I'm really sorry for you and your daughter- the best advice I can give you both is to get hunting asap- and to readjust your daughter's expectations downwards- there is no way on earth she is going to get a similar property at the rent she has been paying.

Thanks. We're just back from looking at another bungalow which is going for €130 a week but apart from 3 beds there's no furniture, washng machine or fridge in it. She's meeting the owner later this evening.

Kristopherus wrote: »

Muffler, is the house in the North or the South?

North part of the South - Donegal actually.

percy212 wrote: »

The owner owes the bank 200k. That does not mean market value of the rented house is 200k.

Spot on.

percy212 wrote: »

You should ask a local realtor (preferably one you know and trust), what kind of offer might be accepted on the house. Your daughter may be able to get a loan from your county council to make a purchase. A house I personally know of on an estate in a medium sized midlands town was bought for 260k during the madness, and was sold 4 months ago by the bank, for 80k. It can't hurt to ask.

Thats worth exploring. Cheers.

Sala

Agreed with that. If there's any way she could finance the property the bank night let it go for below market rate instead of going through the hassle of getting rid of a tenant and putting it on the market

gaius c

Marcusm wrote: »

If they want to r daughter to leave, I doubt that they would of accept any rent for the "notice" period as to do so would be to acknowledge your daughter's RTA entitlements. If they accept the rent they become the landlord and must abide by the relevant notice provisions. If they repossess the house and have not previously agreed to the tenancy they would not regard themselves as bound by it.

They don't actually. It's a bit of a legal black hole and the bank are technically allowed to knock on the door and tell them "it's our house now, you've a day to pack your stuff and leave".

In practice, they are actually being quite reasonable with sitting tenants re notice. Too reasonable in the case of tenants like the Coyne's in Carpenterstown.

muffler

Leaving the legalities aside I don't think any lender would want to see a story in the media about how they threw a single mum and her child out onto the street when they (mother and son) were innocent parties in all of this.

That's just a worse case scenario but in reality if she couldn't find anywhere to live/rent within the next couple of weeks and the bank had advertised the sale of the property and had a quick buyer what would really happen though?

I'm just posting the above for debate as Id be confident that my daughter will be out of the house within a week or so. At least I hope she will have found something by then. She is very tempted with the house she seen earlier and the owner is putting furniture etc into it next week

the groutch

muffler wrote: »

I think what they will try to do is put her on a 2, 3 or 4 week notice to vacate and charge her for every week that she remains there from when they take ownership of the house next week.

afaik they would have to give written notice of 42 days, so make sure she doesn't allow herself be bullied into vacating any sooner than required.

The_Conductor

the groutch wrote: »

afaik they would have to give written notice of 42 days, so make sure she doesn't allow herself be bullied into vacating any sooner than required.

Not true.
The bank are not bound by the terms of the RTA, or any lease the daughter may hold, once the property is repossessed.
They tend to be relatively accommodating- especially in small communities where the bad press associated with giving someone immediate notice would be counter productive- they are not however bound by the terms of the lease- or the RTA.

Marcusm

The_Conductor wrote: »

Not true.
The bank are not bound by the terms of the RTA, or any lease the daughter may hold, once the property is repossessed.
They tend to be relatively accommodating- especially in small communities where the bad press associated with giving someone immediate notice would be counter productive- they are not however bound by the terms of the lease- or the RTA.

That would benefit from two qualifications - the bank might be bound by the lease if it has agreed to it previously (which can be the case with BTL mortgages) or if the bank accepts rent in which case it falls to be treated as a landlord under RTA.

Cuddlesworth

520 a month for a 3 bed in Donegal? Perfect example of RA putting an artificial floor on the market.

Paddy Madden

maybe someone can help me, i'm in a rented property 5 years, my landlord told me 2 months ago that the house has been repossessed by the bank and to expect to be turfed out soon. In the meantime I have heard nothing and paying no rent to anyone, now my landlord tells me he mad a mistake and the house has not been repossessed, it was a different house and he wants me to start paying him arrears for the past 2 months and rent again. how can I find out if hes telling me the truth?

The_Conductor

Paddy- if you have not been approached by a bank official advising you that they have appointed a 'rent receiver' to the property- your lease with the landlord is sound- and he is entitled to rent for the property. Non-payment of rent- is grounds for evicting you. At this stage- you owe arrears for the months you did not pay- alongside any current rent due. I would organise a schedule to clear it, if I were you- as you're in very dodgy territory vis-a-vis tenancy rights, otherwise.

And no- you are not entitled to know your landlord's financial affairs- if he volunteers information- it is of his own volition- you are not entitled to go around asking questions.

Talk to the landlord about a schedule for getting up to date with your rent payments- inclusive of arrears.

ABajaninCork

Paddy Madden wrote: »

maybe someone can help me, i'm in a rented property 5 years, my landlord told me 2 months ago that the house has been repossessed by the bank and to expect to be turfed out soon. In the meantime I have heard nothing and paying no rent to anyone, now my landlord tells me he mad a mistake and the house has not been repossessed, it was a different house and he wants me to start paying him arrears for the past 2 months and rent again. how can I find out if hes telling me the truth?

Not being funny, but you must have known rent was due to SOMEONE whether it be the landlord or the bank. Why didn't you put aside the rent money?

FWIW, I think the landlord's managed to head off the bank at the pass - for now. I'd look to pay the arrears ASAP and look for somewhere else to live.