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Debate: Does it annoy you that RTE are only Broadcaster on HD on Saorview?

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Comments

  • #92
    Digifriendly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,055 ✭✭✭Digifriendly


    Dont forget there are no extra HD channels for Freeview viewers (apart from a part time only channel) and even the SD red button channls have not full coverage across UK. HD red button channels are only on satellite.
    You're absolutely right though re RTE. Lots of wasted space. Even TG4 had red button rugby coverage last season. Why could RTE not have some for the Olympics?


  • #93
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,829 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Digifriendly wrote: »
    Dont forget there are no extra HD channels for Freeview viewers (apart from a part time only channel) and even the SD red button channls have not full coverage across UK. HD red button channels are only on satellite.
    You're absolutely right though re RTE. Lots of wasted space. Even TG4 had red button rugby coverage last season. Why could RTE not have some for the Olympics?

    Are you talking about the staff?


  • #94
    STB.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    Please.

    Do not compare the output and the capabilities of the BBC and RTE.

    Their money streams are a small fraction of each other.


  • #95
    Digifriendly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,055 ✭✭✭Digifriendly


    STB. wrote: »
    Please.

    Do not compare the output and the capabilities of the BBC and RTE.

    Their money streams are a small fraction of each other.

    Cannot disagree but if TG4 can utilise red button why can't RTE?


  • #96
    STB.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    Digifriendly wrote: »
    Cannot disagree but if TG4 can utilise red button why can't RTE?

    They used it how many times and for how long? And why.

    TG4 don't have the money to pay for HD carriage.

    RTE pay for 2 HD channels and 2 SD channels whilst effectively subsidising OTV. I'm sure RTE would love to do loads more, but I dont believe they have the money.


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  • #97
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,829 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Digifriendly wrote: »
    Cannot disagree but if TG4 can utilise red button why can't RTE?

    RTE are under constant pressure from the BAI and Comreg because they in turn are both under pressure from the non-RTE broadcasters (and Sky).

    RTE have to play out kids programmes on two channels without advertising revenue. RTE NN can not have advertising - so that is three of four channels with no advertising revenue for a large chunk of the day. RTE NN has been a synchronous rebroadcast channels for news (which makes no sense), and then endless replays of that news broadcast.

    RTE are not allowed to benefit from being owners of 2RN = they are regulated even though they were gifted the two muxes being used (four muxes in total) and they funded them from their own resources.

    It does not bode well.


  • #98
    Digifriendly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,055 ✭✭✭Digifriendly


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Digifriendly wrote: »
    Cannot disagree but if TG4 can utilise red button why can't RTE?

    RTE are under constant pressure from the BAI and Comreg because they in turn are both under pressure from the non-RTE broadcasters (and Sky).

    RTE have to play out kids programmes on two channels without advertising revenue. RTE NN can not have advertising - so that is three of four channels with no advertising revenue for a large chunk of the day. RTE NN has been a synchronous rebroadcast channels for news (which makes no sense), and then endless replays of that news broadcast.

    RTE are not allowed to benefit from being owners of 2RN = they are regulated even though they were gifted the two muxes being used (four muxes in total) and they funded them from their own resources.

    It does not bode well.

    Thanks for very clear explanation. RTE seem to have their hands tied behind their back. No wonder satellite TV has such takeup in ROI.


  • #99
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,829 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    If the regulator (Comreg) wants a level playing field, they should insist that the owners of TV3, 3e and UTVi build their own DVB-T network or put up with the terms that suit 2RN. Clearly this is not the case. We have three independent mobile networks so why not two separate TV networks? - or is that too simple.

    Of course, 2RN could rent them the second mux at €6m per year (which is the regulated cost of that mux).


  • #100
    Mickey Mike
    Registered Users Posts: 792 ✭✭✭Mickey Mike


    Its a shame that this is the kind of competition we have, in order to have a so called level playing field, we have to mussel the stronger broadcaster so the other can make a bit of noise. I sometimes wish they was no competition at all, put them all under the control of RTE, one body, no messing, we could end up having a brilliant service second to none.


  • #101
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,829 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Mickie Mike wrote: »
    Its a shame that this is the kind of competition we have, in order to have a so called level playing field, we have to mussel the stronger broadcaster so the other can make a bit of noise. I sometimes wish they was no competition at all, put them all under the control of RTE, one body, no messing, we could end up having a brilliant service second to none.

    To a certain extent there is a bit of that already because RTE are obliged to use independent production companies for a percentage of the output. This appears to work but allows those companies to make large profits at our expense. Are they cheaper than RTE? Do not know but probably.

    RTE do have much higher standards than the other broadcasters - but they have more money to throw around. [I am not talking about the salaries of their 'stars' but that is another issue].


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  • #102
    studdlymurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 827 ✭✭✭studdlymurphy


    When will they broadcast in 4k?


  • #103
    mass_debater
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,072 ✭✭✭mass_debater


    studdlymurphy wrote: »
    When will they broadcast in 4k?

    Never


  • #104
    FRIENDO
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭FRIENDO


    I watched a program in July on RTE called "Collectors" a friend of mine was actually in it.
    However it was filmed on iPhone and supposedly 4k.

    I don't know if it was broadcasted in 4k as I don't have a 4k reciever.
    But I suppose it could have been.


  • #105
    Mickey Mike
    Registered Users Posts: 792 ✭✭✭Mickey Mike


    studdlymurphy wrote: »
    When will they broadcast in 4k?

    Just wondering what planet you came from? 4k in Ireland I'll be dead and gone if and when it happens. Sad thing is we don't even have full HD never mind 4k and it does sicken me a bit, I don't understand the system we have. 2 channels on half HD and all the others on the lowest Bitrate possible. Charges are two high and others won't pay up and the devil knows what else.


  • #106
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,596 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    studdlymurphy wrote: »
    When will they broadcast in 4k?

    No terrestrial broadcaster is planning 4K, bitrates are too at this stage for the available capacity and the transmission standards being used.


  • #107
    Mickey Mike
    Registered Users Posts: 792 ✭✭✭Mickey Mike


    Just watching Listowel Races on TG4, such a shame its on 544 by 576, blurry picture on a 40 inch screen. The trick now is to watch it on my 22 inch TV in the bedroom where it looks a little bit better.
    Is there any chance of more HD coming to Saorview/Saorsat. One retailer told me it would be far cheaper to broadcast HD on Saorsat, it seems to make sense.


  • #108
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,829 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Mickie Mike wrote: »
    Just watching Listowel Races on TG4, such a shame its on 544 by 576, blurry picture on a 40 inch screen. The trick now is to watch it on my 22 inch TV in the bedroom where it looks a little bit better.
    Is there any chance of more HD coming to Saorview/Saorsat. One retailer told me it would be far cheaper to broadcast HD on Saorsat, it seems to make sense.

    It would cost nothing extra to broadcast in HD as the capacity is there. The question to ask is not 'how much extra does it cost to broadcast in HD on Saorview?' but 'Who should pay for the use of currently wasted bandwidth so we can see channels that are currently in SD (fuzzy vision) begin broadcasting in HD?'

    The answer to the second question is that RTE pays for the wasted bandwidth because the other broadcasters refuse to pay their fair share, but if they did, the same amount of money would be paid the 2RN for running the current two muxes and the network. RTE are paid for encoding the two muxes. The total cost currently is €12 m per year.





    .


  • #109
    Mickey Mike
    Registered Users Posts: 792 ✭✭✭Mickey Mike


    Solutions are simple and common sense, but very difficult to get my head around the current situation.


  • #110
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 83,285 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    RTE are paid for encoding the two muxes. The total cost currently is €12 m per year.

    .

    They should just add an extra €10 on the annual tv licence fee and give us the lot in HD instead of this impossible journey we are on where we will never get it. I hate when TV3/TG4 get any live tv events as they are bordering on unwatchable wth the brutal picture, like a low quality web stream from.


  • #111
    former total
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭former total


    Mickie Mike wrote: »
    Solutions are simple and common sense, but very difficult to get my head around the current situation.

    There is no incentive for TG4/TV3/UTV to pay more for HD because there is no return on investment.

    It's that simple.


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  • #112
    Mickey Mike
    Registered Users Posts: 792 ✭✭✭Mickey Mike


    former total wrote: »
    There is no incentive for TG4/TV3/UTV to pay more for HD because there is no return on investment.

    It's that simple.

    Ok then, I agree, so lets do what Atlantic Dawn says 'put another 5 or 10 euro on the licence fee to make up the short fall. Just talking about TV3 and TG4.
    UTVi will only be another 3e, they in fact should move up to 720 by 576.
    I will gladly pay the increase in licence fee before any SKY, VM etc.
    Its purely for viewing for the public and not to be looking at rubbish. The old analogue was better than it.


  • #113
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,829 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    There is no reason why 2RN should not make 720 by 576 the minimum resolution on Saorview (except they would need permission from Comreg, BAI and the Minister). The capacity is there and so there would be no increase in overall cost. The only difference would be RTE pay slightly less or RTE increase the bandwidth used on their two HD channels to keep the charges the same.


  • #114
    Mickey Mike
    Registered Users Posts: 792 ✭✭✭Mickey Mike


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    There is no reason why 2RN should not make 720 by 576 the minimum resolution on Saorview (except they would need permission from Comreg, BAI and the Minister). The capacity is there and so there would be no increase in overall cost. The only difference would be RTE pay slightly less or RTE increase the bandwidth used on their two HD channels to keep the charges the same.

    That is the daft thing about it,there's plenty of space for improvements. What are they holding out for? are they expecting more channels to come, if so are they afraid of running out of room with the though of rolling out Mux3. Well that is not going to happen, more over when Saorview connect launches when ever.
    I always though years ago when digital tv comes they would be none of this type of carry on.


  • #115
    NIMAN
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,892 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    The Cush wrote: »
    No terrestrial broadcaster is planning 4K, bitrates are too at this stage for the available capacity and the transmission standards being used.

    Maybe we should aspire to transmitting in 1080 before getting ahead of ourselves and aiming for 4k !!


  • #116
    NIMAN
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,892 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    They should just add an extra €10 on the annual tv licence fee and give us the lot in HD instead of this impossible journey we are on where we will never get it. I hate when TV3/TG4 get any live tv events as they are bordering on unwatchable wth the brutal picture, like a low quality web stream from.

    Some of the picture quality you get in 2016 is absolutely shocking.

    So much for 'digital' TV. Some channels have no better picture quality than 20yr old analogue.


  • #117
    mrwish
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭mrwish


    With the amount that MPEG4 AVC encoder technology has come on in the past few years I would have thought they could pretty easily do decent 1920x1080i in place of 1440x1080i and 720x576i in place of 544x576i on all of the Saorview channels at the same bitrates as currently.

    In the UK, the likes of BBC One HD on Freeview has around the same average bitrate as RTÉ One on Saorview, it might even be a bit less. The difference is it can peak a bit higher than 9Mbps (and equally it goes down lower than 2Mbps), but surely they could configure the Saorview muxes in a similar way, without having to change the charging structure if they kept the "average" bitrate of each service the same?

    The 544x576i services are definitely crying out for an increase, they're really soft and blurry.


  • #118
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,829 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Unfortunately the likes of TV3 will say - if it can be done for less, then count us in - but if it will cost more then count us out. Cheapskates.


  • #119
    byte
    Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 19,124 Mod ✭✭✭✭byte
    byte


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Unfortunately the likes of TV3 will say - if it can be done for less, then count us in - but if it will cost more then count us out. Cheapskates.
    It really shouldn't be up to them to determine how crap a broadcast they can get away with.

    If only we had decent regulators to enforce minimum standards or something...


  • #120
    former total
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭former total


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Unfortunately the likes of TV3 will say - if it can be done for less, then count us in - but if it will cost more then count us out. Cheapskates.

    It's a private company trying to turn a profit. If going HD would make them money, they'd do it.

    That's not being cheap, that's running a business.


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  • #121
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,829 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    former total wrote: »
    It's a private company trying to turn a profit. If going HD would make them money, they'd do it.

    That's not being cheap, that's running a business.

    I do not agree with you as SD (squidgey vision) turns off many viewers and can be impossible to watch. Good PQ will add to most programmes and add to the perception of the channel. TV3 currently overuse advertising that leads to long commercial breaks and coupled with Squidgey Vision makes the channel unwatchable.

    So it is a business decision but also a value decision.

    Being a cheapskate gets you cheapskate business - as in pound shops are not places to go to find quality - they are places to find poor quality products at poor quality prices.


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