Debate: Does it annoy you that RTE are only Broadcaster on HD on Saorview?

timothydec77

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118091823#Comment_118091823

Saorview will be gone by 2030 or so.

Everyone in the sector is buying time. Linear TV is becoming a thing of the past bar News and Sport.

Mickey Mike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118092152#Comment_118092152

I've been thinking that, 2030 the remainder of the UHF band to be cleared, we already had the 700 and 800 mHz clearance completed, so yea it would be very strange life without terrestrial TV, technology keeps evolving all the time.

The Cush

Broadcasting has primary use of the remainder of the UHF band to at least the end of 2030 by EU regulation.

WRC-23 is reviewing the complete UHF band, 470-960 MHz, and consider possible regulatory actions in the broadcasting band, 470-694 MHz, under agenda item 1.5.

The European coordination body CEPT is currently developing common positions on the various agenda items including the UHF band. Following a survey last year, in preparation for the review, the majority of European administrations want to maintain or increase the spectrum available for broadcasting post WRC-23.

One area being looked at is 5g broadcast, possibly co-primary or secondary basis with DTT in the 470-694 MHz band.

The Cush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118092152#Comment_118092152

Linear TV is evolving, hybrid standards like HbbTV, DVB-I and ATSC-3 in the US, will give it a shot in the arm if implemented. Saorview unfortunately isn't a great example for anyone. 5g broadcast could replace the broadcast standards we use today in the next decade.

Atlantic Dawn

What will replace Saorview? Satellite is the only other option that would satisfy live sports, going down the road of web based tv you might as awell be delivering live scores by fax as it will be quicker than waiting for it to catch up with live.

The Cush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118092849#Comment_118092849

Saorview won't disappear but its method of delivery could change in time, IP delivery over 5g, FTTH etc.

Mickey Mike

I'm not too well up on the oul teck but I've always thought TG4 would go HD at some point, it was on all the repeater transmitters in the country in the analogue days, TG4 stood on its own feet independently from RTE before going digital (a bad job) Saorview may change but Saorsat I feel will remain the same.

FRIENDO

I hope Saorview lasts longer than 2030, Saorview accompanied with Satellite 28E Free to Air is excellent and free, along with the likes of Netflix and and other streaming services, we are spoilt like never before

RoysWorld

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118092152#Comment_118092152

I recall reading a long time ago that radio would be gone by now because of Spotify.

RoysWorld

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118089178#Comment_118089178

I've seen some of those posts, they are an amazing insight. As you say it is incredible that people will spend €2000 on a TV but then won't spend a small fraction of that getting a proper aerial installed. They prefer to cheap out on a useless indoor aerial and waste time asking the Internet for opinions as to why it doesn't work.

timothydec77

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118092849#Comment_118092849

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118095765#Comment_118095765

I wouldnt worry too much. I am just an normal Joe Soap posting on boards.

We will have more and more content.

Saorview will be replaced by something different. 2030 is a long time away.

timothydec77

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118098229#Comment_118098229

Sounds funny alright.

Mickey Mike

SKY NEWS is launching on Saorview Ch. 23 on Tuesday according to The Irish Times, not much of an addition after so many years, but at least its something, I guess it will be a Standard Definition channel.

Mickey Mike

It now looks like the HD test card on CH.14 is gone, so I can't imagine any more HD channels on the two multiplexers in use.

bigbob

It is a shame that all channels on saorview are not High Definition.

There is a few reasons they are not HD. Some broadcasters are mean, miserable whingers who want a free ride and won't pay for anything more than blurovision on their 3 channels on saorview. They won't pay for even one of their channels to be on saorsat.

TG4 won't pay the extra for HD either and only pay for a worse picture than is transmitted in NI on freeview. At least they pay the small extra cost to be on saorsat.

Ideally by now, all channels would be High Definition on saorview or at least have plans to do at some point. Leaving aside cost to broadcasters there is another issue. Bandwidth. On the current 2 mux network there only be space for maximum of 8 HD channels.

Including Sky news there is currently 11 channels.

1 RTE one, 2 RTE2, 3 VM1, 4 TG4, 5 VM2, 6 VM3, 7 RTE one +1, 8 RTE Jr/2+1, 9 RTE News, 10 Oireachtas & 11 Sky News.

Add a possible TG4 +1/Cula4 that would be 12.

One way to accommodate all these channels in HD would be to add one or two more muxes & try and squeeze 12 HD channels between them.

As the nordig/saorview spec now specifies support for DVB-T2 it would make sense to make any new mux T2 as it would have more efficient use of bandwidth. If doing that it would also make sense to encode with HEVC instead of MPEG4.

Legacy original saorview boxes/tvs would not receive/decode this new mux but they would still receive any channels that continue to broadcast on a DVB-T mux.

An alternative to adding a 3rd/4th mux would be to convert muxII to DVB-T2 HEVC. Keep muxI as DVB-T MPEG4 but squeeze RTE one, RTE2, VM1 & TG4 in as high a definition as possible. Original saorview spec receivers would still receive 4 core PSB channels.

Newer receivers/tvs sold in the last 3-4 years would be able to decode legacy muxI along with an updated muxII.

The updated muxII could now carry RTE one+1, RTE jr/2+1, VM2, VM3, TG4 +1/cula4, RTE News, Sky News & Oireachtas in at least 1280 x 720 HD.

This would reduce the channel count on some saorview devices but they would still get 4 core PSB channels. The advantage is for anyone with newer spec saorview devices all "bonus" channels are in HD.

Even if this was announced 12 months before implementation it could be advertised like original DSO to allow people chance to upgrade if they were going to loose non core 4 PSB channels.

Next year is 10 years after muxII launch. Is saorview transmission format not expected to evolve as technology evolves?

dublinman1990

If Saorview does change it's multiplexes to T2. That would be an advantage for me because I currently have a Cello 24 inch HD Android Smart TV in the house. It has Freeview T2 capability to allow it to continue receiving the upgraded Saorview signal. However if any of the Saorview channels were to launch in UHD several years from now; that would put me at a disadvantage as the TV would be made redundant unless I get a 4k combo box that supports Saorview T2 & FTA Satellite.

As newer TV's sold in shops today have T2 capability for Saorview/Freeview; People would be happy to know that they don't have to go into a electronics retailer to buy a new TV to continue receiving Saorview unless it breaks down on them.

It should be a very easy re-tune process to allow us continue watching the channels in our own homes.

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118232681#Comment_118232681

Saorsat recently halved the symbol rate to 12500. DVB-S2 QPSK. We don't need an extra mux.

IIRC the only non-T2 Saorview approved devices were the original Walker boxes and it's clones. T2 would offer ~ 30% more bandwidth so perhaps the existing network could fit on one transponder especially if they dropped the +1's and channel's 29 and 51. It would save a fortune on electricity. And it would mean you could record EVERY program with one tuner. (all of Saorview could be displayed comfortably on a 4K TV at their native resolutions with space left over.)

It's crazy that state funded TG4 can't use the spare bandwidth on state funded 2RN's network to broadcast in HD (nett cost to the taxpayer €0). TG4 programs are in 1920x1080 when shown on BBC, 1440x1080 on RTE and 528x576 on TG4 on Saorview/Saorsat.

Instead to watch TG4 in HD you have to pay the use the services of SKY (no transmitters here, Luxembourg based) or the buyer of private company that only had 80% coverage but insisted on taking a legal challenge against Saorview charges despite having being bailed out by the taxpayer.

We should go back to the original concept of a commercial mux. Leave TG4 and RTE on one so they could go HD and let the commercial channels pay for the other and let them sort out between themselves how they are going to fund it and use "must carry" and the FTA obligations for big sports events to block rights if they don't. /RANT

Jpmarn

I think the big future of TV distribution is with fibre optic cables presently being rolled out around the country for high speed broadband. It looks like terrestrial and satellite services would be shut down eventually.

The Cush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118270301#Comment_118270301

5g broadcast is likely to be the next step in OTA terrestrial broadcasting, possibly by the end of the decade. The 2023 world radio conference will decide what happens next.

galtee boy

I would suspect that by the end of the decade, satellite tv broadcasting will be gone, whatever about terrestrial. Once fibre/high speed broadband is available to almost every home in the UK and Ireland, Sky will move completely from satellite to streaming. The cost of building and maintaining satellite is huge compared to streaming. A bunch of high end servers in a room on the ground is pretty much all that's needed, easily accessible, easily maintained, updated, repaired etc. If this happens, it could mean problems for receiving UK TV in Ireland, as overspill from fta satellite would be gone.

wysara

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118271650#Comment_118271650

Tell this to the starlink fans.

The Cush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118276933#Comment_118276933

Starlink doesn't do broadcast TV though.

wysara

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118277431#Comment_118277431

Once everyone has fibre, there'll be no need for the starlink space junk experiment.

Hotblack Desiato

Given the hundreds of channels of cheap rubbish on satellite, the cost of broadcasting it can't be that high.

Mickey Mike

Saorview is expanding a little bit now with the addition of UCB Ireland (radio). At a later date we might get Spirit radio, Newstalk radio, Classic Hits and maybe Today FM. Just as good as any DAB radio.

Digifriendly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118304657#Comment_118304657

Newstalk would be a welcome addition as it is hard to receive here in N. Ireland due to it being on much lower power from Clermont Carn than other main Irish stations on FM.

Also I thought Irish DAB had been axed altogether.

Mickey Mike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308157#Comment_118308157

Yes DAB was axed totally last march, I could never understand why Clermont Carn operates in lower power given where its located. We must get these Irish signals into the north of Ireland, you never know one day we might be United.

StreetLight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308157#Comment_118308157

Axed by RTE, but RTE are not the only broadcaster in Ireland. FreeDAB are currently operating multiplexes in various spots around the country.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118304657#Comment_118304657

Yippee, more foreign funded religious propaganda befouling the airwaves, great.

lgs 4

As the availability of UHF channels frequencies get less due to mobile networks advancement .A new form compression is need for terrestrial television. Without loss of picture quality and especially for 4K.In other words less bandwidth been used .To squeeze more channels into the channel frequency . That's my thinking for the future for terrestrial TV .