Heatpac 70/90: Fires and then stops?

makeorbrake

As per the thread title, I have a Firebird Heatpac 70/90 external oil burner. It kicks up fine - and runs for a few minutes. However, it then just stops and wont fire up again (nor does it make any attempt to fire up - and reset button makes no odds). The pipe into the first Rad from the boiler is only 4 metres away - but in the few minutes it runs, it's completely cold - not even the sniff of heat.


I've had airlocks many times - and that seems to manifest itself in a different way i.e. it attempts to fire after a reset....so I guess it's not that.

What's the very next troubleshooting step I should take? What would be the most likely fault by the law of averages?

Wearb

makeorbrake wrote: »

As per the thread title, I have a Firebird Heatpac 70/90 external oil burner. It kicks up fine - and runs for a few minutes. However, it then just stops and wont fire up again (nor does it make any attempt to fire up - and reset button makes no odds). The pipe into the first Rad from the boiler is only 4 metres away - but in the few minutes it runs, it's completely cold - not even the sniff of heat.


I've had airlocks many times - and that seems to manifest itself in a different way i.e. it attempts to fire after a reset....so I guess it's not that.

What's the very next troubleshooting step I should take? What would be the most likely fault by the law of averages?

Check to see if your circulating pump is running.

Wearb

If your boiler stat is at about mid position, turn it to full to see if boiler fires again. If it does, it indicates a circulating problem. Don't forget to turn stat back to where it was.
I am assuming you have checked high limit stat doesn't need resetting.

makeorbrake

Wearb wrote: »

Check to see if your circulating pump is running.

Thanks but as it's nowhere to be found (not just my difficulty but the difficulty of about 5 plumbers in the past in trying to locate it) and most likely behind a wall (without breaking down a wall - and accessing it - in the hope that it is where I think it is), I can't tell..

Wearb wrote:

If your boiler stat is at about mid position, turn it to full to see if boiler fires again. If it does, it indicates a circulating problem. Don't forget to turn stat back to where it was.

ok, thanks - will try that. Actually, now that I think of it - there are two separate circulation switches on the wall - with a separate circuit on each. Upstairs and downstairs - with the downstairs pump being the one I can't access. Are they totally independent or would both stop to function if one failed?

Wearb wrote:

I am assuming you have checked high limit stat doesn't need resetting.

Never had to tinker with it - so no - but I will do that now that you have mentioned it.

I'll come back and report following above checks.

Thanks for your help.

makeorbrake

ok, I reset high limit stat - and fired it up. It ran for exactly 10 minutes and cut out.


I'll try again shortly - as suggest - having the temperature stat set to the max... It's currently set to three notches on the dial from maximum..

Wearb

No need to turn up the stat now. The fact that the high limit stat worked in that way almost certainly points to a circulating problem.

Btw, did you come to any conclusions about co alarm?

jca

makeorbrake wrote: »

ok, I reset high limit stat - and fired it up. It ran for exactly 10 minutes and cut out.


I'll try again shortly - as suggest - having the temperature stat set to the max... It's currently set to three notches on the dial from maximum..

When it ran for those 10 mins did any of the rads heat? Certainly looking like a circulation pump problem. Is there anywhere you can put in a new pump and leave the "lost" now defunct pump in place?

DGOBS

You sure the pump isn't in the boiler casing, depending on which one, could be in through the back panel.
Look at the cables in the boiler case, see if any are heading to the back of the boiler

makeorbrake

Wearb wrote: »

No need to turn up the stat now. The fact that the high limit stat worked in that way almost certainly points to a circulating problem.

Not the best news - but at least I have the problem isolated now - so thanks for that.

Wearb wrote: »

Btw, did you come to any conclusions about co alarm?

Bought a second one this afternoon (along with a cheap electric heater). Need to set them both up and light a small stove fire and see what happens.

jca wrote:

When it ran for those 10 mins did any of the rads heat? Certainly looking like a circulation pump problem.

No - the pipe leading in to the first rad (which is only a few metres from the external boiler - remained dead cold.

jca wrote:

Is there anywhere you can put in a new pump and leave the "lost" now defunct pump in place?

I'm unsure of this. I can see the motorised valve on the upstairs circuit - in the hotpress. Could it go in there?

It's the downstairs circuit that's an issue - that motorised valve must be stuck behind a wall - and presumably the pump is with it? Would it be logical to place the pump there??

dgobs wrote:

You sure the pump isn't in the boiler casing, depending on which one, could be in through the back panel.
Look at the cables in the boiler case, see if any are heading to the back of the boiler

I'm not sure of a whole lot..lol...but I had a look..

There are three incoming cables through a hole in the base of the housing at the front. one is line feed from the oil tank. other two are electrical - one leading up to the 'stat - the other leading to the burner (where the boiler reset button is, etc).....so I guess that means it's not there??

DGOBS

The cable going up to the thermostat, SHOULD then return down to the burner (ie. power to the stat then when stat calls for heat, send power to the burner, burner would not be fed from anywhere else but the stat), so if there is 2 cables entering the casing, where is the other cable going.....?

agusta

makeorbrake wrote: »

As per the thread title, I have a Firebird Heatpac 70/90 external oil burner. It kicks up fine - and runs for a few minutes. However, it then just stops and wont fire up again (nor does it make any attempt to fire up - and reset button makes no odds). The pipe into the first Rad from the boiler is only 4 metres away - but in the few minutes it runs, it's completely cold - not even the sniff of heat.


I've had airlocks many times - and that seems to manifest itself in a different way i.e. it attempts to fire after a reset....so I guess it's not that.

What's the very next troubleshooting step I should take? What would be the most likely fault by the law of averages?

the pump,ive never know a plumber than couldnt find it if they really had to.cant figure how you had 5 plumbers that couldnt find it,its impossible not to find it.
What room is directly inside the headpac?,do you know where the heating pipe work from downstairs to upstairs is..

Dtp1979

agusta wrote: »

the pump,ive never know a plumber than couldnt find it if they really had to.cant figure how you had 5 plumbers that couldnt find it,its impossible not to find it.
What room is directly inside the headpac?,do you know where the heating pipe work from downstairs to upstairs is..

Op have you solid fuel too? I only ask because recently I saw a disastrous dual system where I struggled to find the pump until I realised both system shared the same pump.

makeorbrake

DGOBS wrote: »

The cable going up to the thermostat, SHOULD then return down to the burner (ie. power to the stat then when stat calls for heat, send power to the burner, burner would not be fed from anywhere else but the stat), so if there is 2 cables entering the casing, where is the other cable going.....?

The two cables - run from the stat and from the boiler unit itself - down and out through a hole at the base of the boiler housing. Where they go after that, I can't see - but they are separate until they exit the boiler/boiler housing.

agusta wrote:

the pump,ive never know a plumber than couldnt find it if they really had to.cant figure how you had 5 plumbers that couldnt find it,its impossible not to find it.
What room is directly inside the headpac?,do you know where the heating pipe work from downstairs to upstairs is..

I wasn't exaggerating about the 5 plumbers. I had most of them in with a view to getting some heating controls/stats installed - and this became an issue. They have all searched the little utility room (adjacent to the external boiler) and none of them can find it. The discussion at the time was with regard to the motorised valve for the downstairs circuit. ...but presumably the pump is in the same place...?
They've all come to the same conclusion about where it most likely is (and that's inside a plasterboard wall where there's a small void directly below the upstairs hotpress (where the motorised valve for the upstairs circuit is).

I've searched myself - I've had friends do so - and same conclusion.
I was warned this was going to be an issue - but I said I'd deal with it when the time came...and it's looking like that time is now :-(

Dtp1979 wrote:

Op have you solid fuel too? I only ask because recently I saw a disastrous dual system where I struggled to find the pump until I realised both system shared the same pump.

I do - but it's a standalone stove - no boiler.

agusta

What room is opposite the plaster board wall in the utility and is it a block wall.
If the wall is over 4.5 inches thick you can be sure the pump,pipes going upstairs etc are inside the partition wall.IT wont be that hard to get ascess to them without doing any damage whatsoever

makeorbrake

agusta wrote: »

What room is opposite the plaster board wall in the utility and is it a block wall.

The small utility area is by the back door - and directly adjacent to that door the external boiler.
The plasterboard wall that I referred to is some distance away - is between living room and kitchen with plasterboard on the living room part of that triangular void (which leads all the way up underneath the hotpress upstairs - where the motorised valve for the upstairs circuit is located.

agusta wrote: »

IT wont be that hard to get ascess to them without doing any damage whatsoever

From what I've been told, I'll have to cut a square out of the plasterboard - and possibly put some sort of 'door' back in it's place (for future access).
I guess something like this? =>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnCxKMUJA9wI

RJF

The pump in the heatpac is often/usually located at the back of the boiler. The elec wires probably go to a junction box located here also. Remove the panel at the back- may be necessary to loosen wire safety cage screws if balanced flue is exiting at rear.