PS2 V Xbox

Myrddin

Having missed the 6th generation of consoles almost completely (I drifted away from gaming at that point), the PS2 & Xbox differences are kinda lost on me. I know the basics, like the Xbox apparently is a more powerful console that displays better graphics, but the support for it paled in comparison the the PS2 & its behemoth library. The aethetics too of the original Xbox were poor, with it being a monster in the living room.

What else separates the two though, in terms of playability on their shared libraries? Is it true the Xbox is more powerful? If so, would it make sense to collect Xbox exclusives & shared platform titles on the Xbox, over the PS2? If not, why not? What other factors (apart from the controllers) make the PS2 a more desirable platform to collect for?

CiDeRmAn

There are definitely far more Japanese ephemera on the PS2, art house type games that simply didn't make it to the Xbox as it was as popular as genital warts over there.
They did, in many instances, get ported into the EU territories, often onto budget labels.
And the PS2 was around for so long, the library is simply immense.
The console is probably my favourite of all time, despite the obvious draw of the 16bit systems.

Retr0gamer

Multiplatform games run better on XBox but conversely they are mostly all available on the PC and run even better on PC. You can count the amount of worthwhile XBox exclusives on 2 hands really. It's not a great console especially with the wealthy of exclusives on the PS2 and Gamecube.

penev10

PS2 wins hands down especially if you region mod it.

XBox had some good overlooked exclusives like Otogi, Crimson Sea and Amped as well as the more obvious (console exclusives) like KOTOR, Serious Sam and Steel Battalion.

the groutch

penev10 wrote: »

PS2 wins hands down

Shenmue 2 invalidates your argument.

Myrddin

I know it's hands down the PS2 in the overall category, for the reasons stated. But when it comes to direct comparison between the two with regard to games that both have, why does everyone lean toward the PS2 even if the xbox runs them better? I must admit, having missed that generation of consoles I never 'got' the PS2 love (or any console of that generation really except the DC/GC), so am looking to build collections on both. Why would I side with the PS2 for multiplat games?

The Last Bandit

If its a choice between the two then the simple (and only logical) answer is the PS2. XBOX has some great exclusives alright and dirt cheap these days so why not get both

Myrddin

The Last Bandit wrote: »

If its a choice between the two then the simple (and only logical) answer is the PS2.

Even regards multiplat games? Why so?

XBOX has some great exclusives alright and dirt cheap these days so why not get both

Exclusives are one thing, & I'll def pick them up as I go. I'm just finding it confusing to know which system to buy the multiplats on, especially given I've no particular draw to the PS2

penev10

I had all 3 sixth gen consoles (4 if you count DC!) when the multiplats were released and I always bought the Xbox versions as generally I found the graphics more solid (the one game that springs to mind is Tony Hawk 3/4, it just looked way better). I went with the GC for Soul Calibur 2 though as it had Link!:pac:

The Last Bandit

I'm more 'partial' to the Sony consoles so would usually picked up the Playstation version of a multiplatform release even if was considered to be marginally inferior to the Xbox version - including PS3 & XB360 releases.

I find the Xbox controller horrible as well to use for a long period of time and much happier using a dual shock.

penev10

The Last Bandit wrote: »

I find the Xbox controller horrible as well to use for a long period of time and much happier using a dual shock.

Even the S controller? The US abomination is horrendous but the S was great. Buttons were a bit spongy but the sticks were far better than the Dualshock's imo.

The Last Bandit

Yep tried both of them. The S is a great improvement over the original attempt..
The triggers are an improvement over the L2-R2 of the Dualshocks particularly with driving games.
But overall I'd still prefer the Sony ones

Retr0gamer

Myrddin wrote: »

Even regards multiplat games? Why so?

Well there's a number of reasons. Multiplats that had a release on PC usually ran better on XBox but the PC version would still be the definitive version over the XBox version. Mostly that was for EA and Ubisoft games.

Most games also don't really get that big of an upgrade when converted from PS2 to XBox. The PS2 had a silly amount of eDRAM on the GPU meaning it could knock out alpha effects extremely easily with very little affect on performance while the XBox, despite being the far more powerful system on paper would struggle with the amount of alpha effects the PS2 could generate. It would mean there's very little difference between games where the PS2 was the lead platform, very slight increases in framerate and in some cases worse performance on XBox.

Some games also played better on the PS2 pad due to the fact it had two extra shoulder buttons. Metal Gear Solid 2 and especially Tony Hawks should only be played on a playstation system.

Then there's the exclusives. The PS2 is basically drowning in a sea of exclusives.

When I did pick up multiplatform games it was usually ones from Ubisoft, Rockstar or EA since everything else was kind of optimised for PS2.

The Last Bandit

There is a great article (somewhere) on ArsTechinca about the 'Emotion Engine' going into great detail about how it was designed specifically for gaming and how it is different from the x86 type of architecture.

Finesse rather than brute force...

o1s1n

Myrddin wrote: »

Having missed the 6th generation of consoles almost completely (I drifted away from gaming at that point)

Women, cars and booze? :pac:

It's the only gen I fell out of love with gaming too. I've mentioned it before here, but I think I had gaming fatigue and felt like it was a bit of a con and I was buying the same games that I'd already played on the PS1. Shame I didn't buy a Gamecube, reckon I'd have stuck through it then.

I think overall, due to the fact that the PS2's library is far, far superior, it makes a better games collection. So I buy everything for that. I also don't particularly like how Xbox games look on a shelf, but I guess that's just personal preference

Mr.Saturn

It's hard to have an opinion on the PS2 because it was just so ubiquitous. It had, and to some extent still does, everything. Its catalogue is so expansive it is mind-blowing; it has catalogues within catalogues.

CiDeRmAn

Regarding multiplatform releases, Need for Speed Hot Pursuit 2 on the PS2 was, and is, a cracking game, amongst the best of the franchise.
So, imagine my delight when the more powerful Xbox got an edition as well.
I returned the PS2 version and brought home the Xbox one only to find, on playing, it was an inferior game in every way.
I tried the GC edition as well, just to see, and it was the same awful game.
My understanding retailer allowed me to swap back to the PS2 game and I was happy once again.
Turns out the PS2 edition was made by the regular NfS dev team while the GC and Xbox editions were farmed out and that developer made a pigs ear out of a silk purse.

Myrddin

Very interesting stuff folks, cheers.

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Well there's a number of reasons. Multiplats that had a release on PC usually ran better on XBox but the PC version would still be the definitive version over the XBox version. Mostly that was for EA and Ubisoft games.

The PC angle doesn't really come into it for me, because you can explain any practically every console with the argument that the same games are better on PC (which they are! insert pc master race pic ). So purely speaking of consoles, I'm happy enough that this won't affect my judgement of games. As said, I'd find most, if not all, pc multiplat games to be pretty superior on pc anyway.

Most games also don't really get that big of an upgrade when converted from PS2 to XBox. The PS2 had a silly amount of eDRAM on the GPU meaning it could knock out alpha effects extremely easily with very little affect on performance while the XBox, despite being the far more powerful system on paper would struggle with the amount of alpha effects the PS2 could generate. It would mean there's very little difference between games where the PS2 was the lead platform, very slight increases in framerate and in some cases worse performance on XBox.

Very interesting, sounds familiar to todays comparisons of the One & PS4 (one having a certain spec which is better on paper, but the other being able to make up for it with magic ram).

Some games also played better on the PS2 pad due to the fact it had two extra shoulder buttons. Metal Gear Solid 2 and especially Tony Hawks should only be played on a playstation system.

That's a solid point alright.

Then there's the exclusives. The PS2 is basically drowning in a sea of exclusives.

Aye, no disputing that. It's library is almost biblical. Where I'm finding myself questioning the norm though isn't the exclusives, for that there's but one choice. I'm thinking of large multiplat games like GTA3 for example, & why most people seem to 'default' to the PS2 for such.

When I did pick up multiplatform games it was usually ones from Ubisoft, Rockstar or EA since everything else was kind of optimised for PS2.

If optimisation comes into it, then that would definitely factor in for me. But I've read contradictory 'evidence' that suggests where the two consoles share games, more often than not the Xbox will provide the better experience.

o1s1n wrote: »

Women, cars and booze? :pac:

I think overall, due to the fact that the PS2's library is far, far superior, it makes a better games collection. So I buy everything for that. I also don't particularly like how Xbox games look on a shelf, but I guess that's just personal preference

So your reasoning is that because the PS2 has the better library anyway, you feel you can happily put aside the Xbox versions? That's fair enough, & in line with why I think most people do this.

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Regarding multiplatform releases, Need for Speed Hot Pursuit 2 on the PS2 was, and is, a cracking game, amongst the best of the franchise.
So, imagine my delight when the more powerful Xbox got an edition as well.
I returned the PS2 version and brought home the Xbox one only to find, on playing, it was an inferior game in every way.
I tried the GC edition as well, just to see, and it was the same awful game.
My understanding retailer allowed me to swap back to the PS2 game and I was happy once again.
Turns out the PS2 edition was made by the regular NfS dev team while the GC and Xbox editions were farmed out and that developer made a pigs ear out of a silk purse.

Interesting again, & prob goes back to what Retr0 was saying about different publishers having a difference.

I think because, as some of you have said, the PS2 has such a ubiquitous, all encompassing library, it positions the console as the go-to of the 6th gen machines. Any technical differences can be overlooked, as having the convenience of the whole collection on one system is a better trade off for most. The controller too, is just the nail in the coffin.

Myself? I'm not convinced (yet ). I like the Xbox, I've seen it run multiplat games visibly better than the PS2. I don't mind the controller, I'm not very used to it like I would be a DS2, but it's quite comfortable (2nd revision anyway). I don't mind having an Xbox & PS2 set up in the same room either, & I don't mind having a small shelf of Xbox games that I could have had on the PS2 if I wanted either. Given that, am I totally mad? Or can this be all explained by the fact that I've no particular allegiance or draw to the PS2, having essentially missed the 6th gen...?

o1s1n

Myrddin wrote: »

So your reasoning is that because the PS2 has the better library anyway, you feel you can happily put aside the Xbox versions? That's fair enough, & in line with why I think most people do this.

There would be a few exceptions, my most recent one is the Silent Scope collection and that light rifle.

You can get the same stuff on the PS2, but it's across separate discs. Much rather the Xbox 'all in one' version.

Myrddin wrote: »

Myself? I'm not convinced (yet ). I like the Xbox, I've seen it run multiplat games visibly better than the PS2. I don't mind the controller, I'm not very used to it like I would be a DS2, but it's quite comfortable (2nd revision anyway). I don't mind having an Xbox & PS2 set up in the same room either, & I don't mind having a small shelf of Xbox games that I could have had on the PS2 if I wanted either. Given that, am I totally mad? Or can this be all explained by the fact that I've no particular allegiance or draw to the PS2, having essentially missed the 6th gen...?

I've never really done a side by side comparison. Maybe I can be convinced otherwise are there any games in particular that stand out as being visibly better on the Xbox? I wouldn't mind seeing that with my own eyes as a matter of interest.

Myrddin

o1s1n wrote: »

I've never really done a side by side comparison. Maybe I can be convinced otherwise are there any games in particular that stand out as being visibly better on the Xbox? I wouldn't mind seeing that with my own eyes as a matter of interest.

Bear in mind now, this is from someone with tiny collections on each console...it's not worth considering changing if you've en established collection on either one Going forward, if you will, I'm just finding myself not automatically drawn to the PS2 as many are. Their reasons, & the ones discussed above, are certainly logical & valid. PS2 makes a lot of sense. But when you're about to begin a new collection, I think it's important to question the norm & be happy with whatever you decide.

As for specific examples, there's loads of comparison vids on YT. GTA stuck out for me & is why IO mentioned it, the graphics seemed a lot better & more in line with what the pc was putting out. I found the PS2's horribly aliased in comparison

Retr0gamer

I've discovered one annoyance with the XBox. The PAL XBox doesn't support NTSC which is grand in games since you can force PAL 60 but it seems some games have trouble with FMV (well at least one). My Metal Wolf Chaos keeps jumping during FMV which is annoying since the fake CNN sequences are some of the funniest things in the game. I think this has to do with being played in PAL modes ( the game is the usual pristine copy from Japan, not even one scratch on the disc and gives no other trouble with load or in game ) and the XBox plays FMV in PAL games perfect. I'd have to test another NTSC game to be sure. Also the Halo games have notoriously awful PAL 60 conversions and actually play better in PAL 50 mode. Best get them in NTSC.

Myrddin

Naturally enough, the PAL/NTSC consideration arrives to complicate matters Cheers Retr0, are many of the titles region locked, or was it a thing largely ignored by publishers etc?

Retr0gamer

They're all region locked but the soft mod gets over that. I'll have to test some other NTSC games but the only one worth owning seems to be metal wolf chaos and Phantom Dust, I've not gotten Phantom Dust yet

CiDeRmAn

The PS2 you can't live without.
The Xbox you can, and I speak as someone who loved his Xbox.
Truth is, Halo aside, any games that the Xbox had the trumped the PS2, PGR, Amped and Crimson Skies for example were themselves trumped on the PS2 later on, or at least equalled, with the latter SSX game, the multitude of racing titles for all tastes and Sky Odyssey and the Air Combat series.

Another, perhaps controversial, statement is that, third party multiplatform titles aside, the Xbox was a bit of a WiiU of its day, selling nothing like the epic numbers of its main rival and with a series of slow releases of system exclusives from 1st and 1.5 party teams.

Myrddin

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Truth is, Halo aside, any games that the Xbox had the trumped the PS2, PGR, Amped and Crimson Skies for example were themselves trumped on the PS2 later on, or at least equalled, with the latter SSX game, the multitude of racing titles for all tastes and Sky Odyssey and the Air Combat series.

If by trumped you mean the sequels then became PS2 system exclusives, I'm not too concerned about that as a system exclusive is a system exclusive, you either buy it or you don't. But if the sequels were trumped by the PS2 offerings of a multiplat game, how so?

CiDeRmAn

Initially Amped was the best snowboarding game not on the N64, SSX on the PS2 was no where near as food, but by SSX on Tour on the PS2 the PS2 had arguably at least its equal if not it's better on the PS2.
All I'm saying is, aside from a genuine handful of titles, the Xbox has little to make it exceptional compared to the PS2 but the PS2 has a myriad of amazing titles that appear nowhere else.

Myrddin

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

All I'm saying is, aside from a genuine handful of titles, the Xbox has little to make it exceptional compared to the PS2 but the PS2 has a myriad of amazing titles that appear nowhere else.

Then we're talking about exclusives, & I'm already sold on those (you either buy them or you don't, thats the only choice). It's where the platforms share titles, that I'm interested in learning why people seem to default to PS2, despite the seeming technical advantages of the Xbox.

o1s1n

Because it's dirty and American. /spits :pac:

Myrddin

o1s1n wrote: »

Because it's dirty and American. /spits :pac:

Murica'

Retr0gamer

Still, it had Ninja Gaiden Black, Panzer Dragoon Orta and Jet Set Radio Future which makes it worth it. Must try the two Otogi games as well.

Parawind

Obviously it should be a case by case basis, but generally the multi platform titles were better on the xbox. Also factor in the controller, fps games like timesplitters are much better with the xbox triggers.

There is actually a pretty good selection of quality xbox exclusives that were not released on other platforms.

I will snap a few picks of my xbox collection next time I get to the homestead and pop them in the thread. It might give you a few ideas for titles that might not come to mind, I pretty much polished off my PAL collection last year.

FYI It's also still possible to get brand new official "s" controllers for reasonable prices from Japan.

sweetie

could never get into the Orogi games myself. Wasn't Escape from Butcher Bay an Xbox exclusive?

Myrddin

Well I've read some good points, but nothing yet conclusive (apart from certain game specific examples) as to why people prefer the PS2 (again, exclusives aside...we're talking about shared libraries for this question). I can only surmise it's the go-to console because it has a vastly superior library, & therefore people are comfortable to favour it (controller accepted too).

Myrddin

Parawind wrote: »

Obviously it should be a case by case basis, but generally the multi platform titles were better on the 360.

I presume you mean the original Xbox here? (Edit, nevermind you ninja'd it) This is concurrent with some of the stuff I've read online (can't find the bloody article atm), & prompted me start this thread & ask people why they prefer the PS2 outside of exclusives. It seems to be more a familiarity with the PS2, & alienation of the Xbox in a lot of cases...

CiDeRmAn

I think the reason that, in the main part, the PS2 clinches it in even multiplatform releases is that, as the most popular machine of it's day by a long long margin, it became the target machine in terms of graphics, gameply etc.
Sure, the Xbox had more horses and the GC had... a nifty controller, but they were just co-opted into presenting PS2 quality visuals and the controller setup twisted to accommodate gameplay designed for the PS2 controller, like the aforementioned Metal Gear Solid 2.
There were exceptions, Outrun 2 and later Outrun 2:SP and SP DX were originally an arcade title and released on Sega hardware based on Xbox architecture, the Chihiro and later the Lindbergh boards, both Xbox based arcade boards.
This meant the game ran closer to the arcade edition when played on the Xbox platform, although the game sold far more afaik on the PSP/PS2.
But, I digress, in the main the game developers were targeting the PS2 architecture and the other platforms basically got the lowest common denominator ports, or worse as in the described case of Need for Speed Hot Pursuit 2.

CiDeRmAn

Myrddin wrote: »

I presume you mean the original Xbox here? (Edit, nevermind you ninja'd it) This is concurrent with some of the stuff I've read online (can't find the bloody article atm), & prompted me start this thread & ask people why they prefer the PS2 outside of exclusives. It seems to be more a familiarity with the PS2, & alienation of the Xbox in a lot of cases...

It's probably this,
And, more precisely, the familiarity with the controller.
No need to go and learn where all the buttons are all over again, on the PS2 they are in the same place as they were on your PS1, and then there's the almost perfect compatibility with your PS1 games stack in your room.
For many buyers of software, not necessarily you but, maybe your parents given the average age of a games player was younger than now, the familiarity of the Playstation brand was as ubiquitous as Hoover was to Vacuum cleaners and, as a result, that's what they asked for.

Honestly, working in a gameshop in the late 90's people would be looking for Sega Megagames for the white machine their kids had, meaning they were looking for games for the Snes, as well as people overlooking the Dreamcast completely simply because it wasn't carrying the Sony brand.

As I have described before, when asked to loan my console to an Irish disk based computer magazine, they trialled my GC, an Xbox and a PS2 and lost their load over the PS2, loved the Xbox and gave the GC a complete fail.

Don't Underestimate The Power Of Playstation (Marketing Dept)

Tomo.Murphy

If I had to pick between the two I'd probably go with the PS2 just for the size of the game library and the backwards compatibility.

I still have the PS2 I got for Christmas when I was younger (so maybe there's some bias there :-P). My only experience with the Xbox was playing Halo and PGR in my cousin's house. Couldn't say anything bad about it though. I'm sure you'll be happy with either. The only reason I haven't picked up an Xbox is I wouldn't have the time to play it or the space to set it up.

CiDeRmAn

One other thing.
My lovely launch PS2 died due to a lightning strike on the house a few years ago.
My Xbox was unaffected.
My 3DO, FZ-1, shook it's fists and laughed at the gods!!!

o1s1n

A lightning strike took it out? Holy ****e! I take it you were trying to play Fire Warrior and nature objected? :pac:

CiDeRmAn

o1s1n wrote: »

A lightning strike took it out? Holy ****e! I take it you were trying to play Fire Warrior and nature objected? :pac:

You know, I'd expect that sort of comment from Retr0, but from you O1s... never from you

o1s1n

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

You know, I'd expect that sort of comment from Retr0, but from you O1s... never from you

Hah! I've spent too long in his company

CiDeRmAn

o1s1n wrote: »

Hah! I've spent too long in his company

Were you Ryu to his Sakura?

Dr Bob

Hmm..ive bought hundreds of ps2 games easily..and about 10 xbox ..at a stretch.....there seems to be a LOT more people that owned a ps2 than xbox back in the day..at least in ireland..

The Last Bandit

Dr Bob wrote: »

Hmm..ive bought hundreds of ps2 games easily..and about 10 xbox ..at a stretch.....there seems to be a LOT more people that owned a ps2 than xbox back in the day..at least in ireland..

It had a much shorter shelf life as well though, but ya rarely see a XBOX game at car boots any more.
But then again all the PS2 stuff is Buzz or EA Sport muck as well..

Mr.Saturn

The Last Bandit wrote: »

But then again all the PS2 stuff is Buzz or EA Sport muck as well..

The number of false alarms these have been over the years. There's no sense of disappointment quite like scoping an array of blue cases from a distance, only to approach and see EA's entire PS2 library stretched before you. Slightly better than seeing a case with a game you'd like, only to crack it open and see 'FIFA' plastered on the disc.

I've let out an audible "bollocks" on more than one occasion.

CiDeRmAn

Be careful to label everything from any given studio as muck.
Say what you will about EA Sports, Shox is a brilliant little old skool racer straight out of a 90's arcade and is a wonder with a force feedback steering wheel like the GT Force, its a bit of a diamond in the rough, sold like dried dog sh1t back in the day and never got a follow up but well worth picking up, less than a fiver in shops that stock that sort of thing.

the groutch

it is true though that the ps2 probably has more shovelware than every other console combined.

Retr0gamer

the groutch wrote: »

it is true though that the ps2 probably has more shovelware than every other console combined.

What you call shovelware, I call endlessly entertaining. Zombie vs. Ambulance, Sniper 2, Demolition Girl so much ****!

CiDeRmAn

You never know what you'll find in shovelware.
Many jap titles found their way to Pal shores via shovelware publishers like 505 and you got the like of Castle of Shikigami and Strikers III popping up at stupid budget prices.
Battle Gear 2 and other racing franchises respected in Japan popped up too as cheaply released games like Kaido Racer and Tokyo Road Race and can be easily overlooked in a pile of dung but are actually pretty damn fine games.

The Last Bandit

Actually have Shox somewhere, good game alright. But I should have been more specific and said EA sports games

Mr.Saturn

When we say non-sporty shovelware, I'm thinking more of what used to be found in the PS2 section of TempleCom on the quays. Games such as Aladdin or Little Mermaid where the development time was spent entirely on making the cover evoke Disney as much as possible whilst avoiding a lawsuit. Mercy be to the poor sausage who found that in their Xmas stocking.