Family problems

LegacyUser

So, I'm interested to see what other people think of this situation I have with my mother.
I have my friends and partner to talk to about it but sometimes its good to get the opinions of people who are entirely removed.

Sorry in advance that this is long!!

I've always had a fairly strained and difficult relationship with my mum, more so than my other siblings. She is the most dominant person in our family, our family unit has always been entirely matriarchal. From a young age she was always hardest on me and would have different rules for me than the others, and a different attitude to me than the others.

(please note, I am also female, have 1 sister and 2 brothers, and none of us are adopted)

The problems I've always had especially since I've become an adult is that she has certain rules for herself and my siblings, and others for me. She can call me whenever she wants but I can't do the same. She demands respect for the things that she has to say, but doesn't respect what I say in return.
It happens very, very often that she will speak her mind about something, say something hurtful or behave in a hurtful manner in the process, and when I try to speak to her about it and give my input she will simply say she wont engage with me further and will leave the room, cutting me off.
Very often if I call her up and confront her about something, or ask her about something, if she doesnt feel like talking about it or dealing with it she will simply hang up on me. I find it so, so rude! It happens more than 50% of the time.
Other times I call her and if its something she doesnt feel like dealing with or talking about she will say that me calling her is an "inconvenience in her life" and that she's too occupied right now watching tv or reading to speak to me.
I say ok can you call me back when you arent so busy and she'll just say no, I dont want to talk to you about it and thats that.
One time I text her and asked if I could come home to speak to her in person about something and her response was that I was very selfish to interrupt her day like this, it wasnt convenient to get texts from me and that I cant just text her whenever I like.

More recently I spoke to her in person about my concerns for my brother who still lives at home with her and my father because he smokes weed every day.
He hides it from my parents, and the subject got broached when I expressed concern at his paranoia levels, which they shrug off as him just being contrary.
I told her that I didnt think this was the case, and ended up explaining that he is using drugs daily that can have that effect on a person.
I asked her to please not go straight to him with my story and a row, to just bear this in mind when he had another paranoid episode and perhaps explain to him calmly that she feels he's being a little over-paranoid.
If we both do it, he may consider by himself to rethink his use of weed. And we could talk to him again calmly at another time.
He tried to give up before over his mental state so I know that he knows its negative effects. Also, my younger brother was also a drug addict and alcoholic and I knew from experience when it was approached in an accusatory and blameful manner it only made it worse rather than make him feel cared about and supported.

After I had left she had a row with my brother and brought this up in a very accusatory and angry manner, which I had advised her against doing, and of course my brother was very upset at her for rowing with him and at me for telling her what he does.
So he got defensive, and lied to her telling her that I was lying.
I also got angry messages from my brother for telling her what he does.
I explained that I only want the best for him, that Im concerned about his drug use and that I think he should get therapy. He was having none of it.
I was annoyed at my mum for handling the situation this way.

Obviously the issue with my brother is a big one but ill stick to the main topic for this thread...

So... I called my mum and explained that there was now a massive rift between me and my brother, and I asked her, please can you speak to him and explain to him that I was not ratting him out when I talked to you about his drug use, I was simply concerned, because he seems to think I told you just to get him in trouble.
She just said that she could do whatever she wanted with the information I gave her, that
she will no longer discuss anything about it with me and then hung up on me.
I thought that was really unfair. She wouldnt even hear me out.

Constantly I'm left feeling used and abused by her. She doesnt respect how I feel or what I have to say about anything and just ignores or dismisses me when it suits her. She simply says what she likes and does what she likes and then refuses to engage with me when I have anything Id like to say back.

This is really only a small fraction of the behaviours she has towards me that are hurtful, but I have to keep this as short as possible.
I have tried talking to her about how I feel but she doesnt want to know.
I tried cutting myself off from her for a few months to show her I was serious about not being treated disrespectfully but as soon as I started talking to her again the same patterns resumed. I've tried being totally calm and nice towards her but her attitude still stays the same.

So my question is this: Is it best in these situations to just cut contact with the person with whom you have a difficult relationship even if its family, or should you just continue on and on enduring the same upsetting patterns because its your mother?

Every interaction like this leaves me so down and rattled, I just dont think I can handle it much longer.

ellie1

I think you need to take responsibility for the role you play in your relationship with your mother.

Why are you constantly ringing/ calling her and looking for advice when you say she doesn't respect you.?

It seems like some kind of game that you will now punish her to see what she does?

Don't be interfering with your brother, you told your parents now leave it. ? Demanding your mother fix the situation?

marizpan

I have to agree with the above post.

Why are you engaging her when you know the outcome?
Take a giant step back and live your own life. It is easy enough to be polite and pass yourself when you find yourself in her company.

Edited to add:
You should have approached your brother yourself and not brought your parents into the equation. That oppuntity is now past.

HalloweenJack

Just for some more info, if you tried cutting contact from her earlier on, how was it re-established?

Personally, I think you've two options: cut contact (though I think we'd need some clarification on my above question).

Or just be equally rude to her as she is to you. I know it sounds childish but you won't get anywhere if you just take it and keep coming back to her. If she rings, tell her you can't talk as it's inconvenient for you and hang up, then don't answer her calls.

I know it's dramatic but she has no respect for you so why bother with doing it the other way? It's not affecting here but it's affecting you. Life is way too short, even if it is family. At the end of the day, people who demand respect but don't give it, don't deserve any in the first place. And you've said this has been going on all your life so I doubt one more attempt at being nice will all of a sudden break her habits of a lifetime.

As for the stuff with your brother, maybe you'd have been better off going straight to him about it but who knows. You tried to help him out, you can feel good about yourself for that. Knowing several people who have had problems with drugs and alcohol, they'll only change when they want to. If you really care for him, just be there for him when he's ready.

LegacyUser

Op why did you have to tell your parents about your brother smoking weed? Its none of your business and as a result of this you have probably lost his trust and respect. If he does have a drug problem your parents nor you can solve it. You should never have got involved, and just let your parents find this out for themselves.

It seems from your post your mother doesn't like you as much as other members of the family so maybe you need to start to accept this and stop trying to seek her approval for everything you do in life. Maybe she likes to manipulate you, she knows when she calls / texts/asks you do something you'll do it, however if its the other way around she doesn't do the same for you.

I agree with the other two posters, stop texting her and if she does call you / text you and its not a good time for you well don't reply or answer the phone. Live your own life and look after you, and your happiness. Also not everybody in this world has a good relationship with their parent(s)

Saralee4

ellie1 wrote: »

I think you need to take responsibility for the role you play in your relationship with your mother.

Why are you constantly ringing/ calling her and looking for advice when you say she doesn't respect you.?

It seems like some kind of game that you will now punish her to see what she does?

Don't be interfering with your brother, you told your parents now leave it. ? Demanding your mother fix the situation?

I understand OP why you ring her, look for her advice. Because she is your mother. And that's what mothers and daughters do. You want badly for her to accept you and for her approval since you never felt you got that.

You probably feel like you were singled out compared with your other siblings. The relationship between mother and child is one of the most important ones in your life and if you feel rejected from that then you are going to try to cling on, hope for change, try to understand her motives. You never will though.

The thing with your brother. You should just handle situations directly with him. Going to your mother, it sounds perhaps that this was partially a way to show 'hey mam, im good, im concerned about my brother, he's bad, he's taking drugs, im not, im responsible' kind of thing. but I have no doubt that you were also concerned about your brother too.

You have to make a decision as an adult and decide if the relationship with your mother is worth it. If she makes you feel this bad then is it worth putting yourself through this again and again when she is not going to change.

Just keep in mind that it is her problem, not yours. Siblings should not be singled out or favoured but often that is the case and parents are people like everyone else with flaws. You have tried to confront your mam about your feelings about this and she had dismissed them. There isn't really anything else you can do other than put up with it and accept her for who she is but try to keep yourself emotionally distant from her or completely go no contact and not rely on her for anything.

nc19

Cut her out. Simple.

If you get on with other members of your family then continue as normal with them but totally cut her out. If/when she asks why then tell her in a very neutral tone that the way she speaks to you and treats you is no longer something you wish to engage in. If she tries to belittle your stance then simply hang up/walk away the same way she does.

retro:electro

Why you would tell your mother of all people about your brothers drug use is beyond me. It seems like you wanted to tell her in the hope that you would become the good little girl in her eyes and she would deflect all of the negative attention onto him instead. Why do you bother to pester her constantly about x y and z when you know full well the response you will get? It's almost as if you enjoy the attention. If you didn't want your relationship with your brother to be strained then you should have approached him yourself. You can't tell your mother important information like that concerning her son and expect her to just sit on it and do nothing. Take some responsibility for the situation you are in; you should have learned by now.

LLMMML

I think some posters in this thread are being a little harsh. I doubt they'd be in as big a hurry to cut off their own mother.

I have dealt with my own toxic person (not mother, and not as difficult a person as your mother sounds) and I've found that neither completely giving in, nor cutting them off works. There is a middle ground I've found where you talk to them like a normal person when they're in a good mood, and refuse to engage when they're on a rampage, never lose your temper or get dragged in etc.

I think this will be difficult for you as it sounds from your post that you ring your mother with dramatic situations rather than to chat about your week. Even apart from your brothers issues, it sounds like you ring her to talk about big issues from the past, current problems you have with her etc. You say "VERY OFTEN, when I call her up to CONFRONT her...." You have to let these issues go as you'll NEVER get a response or apology.

I find it helps to view yourself as an adult and the other person as a child. It sounds patronising but it reminds you that you are emotionally mature and have to come up with strategies to deal with someone with less emotional maturity.

thegreatgonzo

The fact that both of your brothers have had problems with addiction suggests to me that the family dynamic has affected them negatively also, so maybe your problems with your mother aren't just your problems, everyone is suffering. You can't make decisions for your brothers, you can tell them you are worried and offer them help but you need to lead your own life and avoid situations that are only going to hurt you. I think LLMMML's post is very good advice.

LegacyUser

Hi all, OP here, thanks for your replies!

Its hard for posters I think having only a slight section of the story / background, but ill try to explain as many things for people as I can...

Ellie1 -
I definitely dont constantly call her for advice, in fact its never for advice, its usually about something practical, and its definitely not constant. I do not wish to punish her, nor do I think she should, or even could fix my brothers problem. But I definitely think she could help.

HalloweenJack -
Contact between us resumed because a massive event happened in my life- I got engaged.
I let her know because I couldnt put the news out there and leave her out, that would be too hurtful. She was much nicer to me for a while after that and made an effort and so I began to communicate with her again. That didnt last long.

Marzipan and others -
Regards my brother, he has been smoking this way for years now. I have already, many times, spoken to him myself about my concerns but he denies that the weed has any effect on him. He lives in my parents house and its become more apparent to me the last few times I was there that his paranoia is getting worse and that because my parents brush it off every time he flips out, being the people that he lives with, his idea that the weed is not having an effect on him is being reinforced.
I felt that if my mother / parents in general were to call him out on his irrational behaviour rather than turn a blind eye it might wake him up a little and cause him to take more of a look at himself.
Basically I feel that they are enabling him. Yes, none of my business
but we do tend to involve ourselves when we care about a person right?
We've been down this road before with my other brother. He ended up in rehab.

Regards why I keep calling or texting her when she's rude to me, that's what I ask myself every time it happens again.
I could call about anything, usually its an on-going conversation like what presents Im getting for my niece for Christmas so that she knows not to get the same things
(ie: coats, or dresses, or whether I'm just getting toys etc..)
I dont go looking for her attitude, every time I just try to have a normal interaction and end up disappointed.
This is why I'm considering cutting off contact altogether because it just never resolves itself.
Like Saralee said, sometimes I just have the incredible urge to try to sort things out or resolve things with her but it never gets me anywhere.

LegacyUser

Thank you LLLMML
It is so hard to think about cutting out your own mother and I do feel guilty at the thoughts of it.
You are right though, I do often get upset and try to defend myself or ask for clarification or a reason when she does something mean or hurtful, I find it so hard to just walk away from it and let it go. My father says, just let it wash off you, dont let it bother you, but thats where I fall down.
Because it does bother me, and I am carrying a lot of hurt from over the years.
I tried counselling when I cut her off before, to get me through the break-up as it were, and I was doing so well! I was so happy once those sessions finished and she was out of my life, I felt strong and upbeat and now I feel Im back to square 1.
Theres just the issue now with my wedding.
She's let her relatives know that Im getting married and relations in America have already said they'd make it over because they have enough notice now.
Shes entwined in the planning.
I suppose I know my own answer on this one...
Keep it low key with her until the wedding is over and then cut back contact further, except wont this seem a little cruel or even fake, like I was just nice towards her for the wedding to put on a front to my relations, and then once its over I change my attitude?
Anyway this thread is getting a little more complicated than I intended.
And yes, I suspect my brothers have probably turned to drugs and drink as a way of escaping her domineering character. although she is nicer to them, I suppose they may find her emasculating in ways.

ManOfMystery

It sounds to me like you've made some effort already and it has gotten you nowhere. IMO just cutting off contact would probably be the best course of action. It's bad enough that your mother behaves the way she does, but she doesn't even acknowledge what she does - it's her way or the highway. I have no time for people like that.

You're an adult and should be treated as such. Just because someone is blood or family, it doesn't mean we have to maintain contact with them - if their behaviour is far from irreproachable then they should be held to the same standard as anyone else who manages to make our lives worse off.

If she does get back in touch with you again though, you need to be strong and firm. By all means explain why you're not in touch, but keep it short and don't fall back into the same habit.

LegacyUser

OP - you have a toxic family and you yourself help to fuel the toxicity. Dont feel bad about that, its a normal response to growing up in a dysfunctional environment. The fact that 2 brothers have addiction/alcohol problems speaks volumes - they have been negatively affected by their dysfunctional upbringing also.

What is your fathers role, if any, in all of this drama?

Everyone in your family seems to have a role and each of you keeps playing your assigned part. This is comfortable and familiar to each of you and despite you expressing here that you want things to change - they will not change unless you change them. The same behaviour is not going to bring new results, only new behaviour brings new results.

The most important thing for you to remember is that you cannot change anyone elses behaviour except your own. You also need to stop trying to control other peoples behaviour - because it just doesnt work.

One thing that stands out to me in your post is why you got back in contact with your mother. Because you got engaged. So, you never saw cutting contact as a permanent solution. If you did, you wouldnt have been concerned about her being hurt to hear of your engagement. Why do you care about her hurt? She clearly doesnt care about yours?

Being brutally honest, I think you need to distance yourself from all of your family, at least until you have had time to do some work on yourself and understand the family dynamic and why you (and they) behave as they do.

Google "A merry go round named denial" - its for people dealing with alcoholism but a lot of it is relevant to general dysfunctional family behaviour. Another good source of info is Toxic Parents by Susan Forward, and Families and How to Survive them by John Cleese (yes, that John Cleese!).

LegacyUser

Op I think for your own sanity you need to cut contact or keep her at a distance.
Blood related or not respect works both ways and just because she is family you shouldn't have to put up with her treating you like this. Its not doing you any good. If it was a friend that treated you like this would you put up with it?

doireann08

LLMMML wrote: »

I think some posters in this thread are being a little harsh. I doubt they'd be in as big a hurry to cut off their own mother.

I have dealt with my own toxic person (not mother, and not as difficult a person as your mother sounds) and I've found that neither completely giving in, nor cutting them off works. There is a middle ground I've found where you talk to them like a normal person when they're in a good mood, and refuse to engage when they're on a rampage, never lose your temper or get dragged in etc.

emotional maturity.

+ 1. LLMMML gives great advice. I too had a difficullt relationship with my mother and some some of my siblings as a result of how manipulative my mother could be.

What worked really well for me was setting some firm boundaries with my mother and our relationship improved as a result. I pretty much adopted the approach that LLMML describes. I refused to engage or listed to her when she or my other siblings stared b*tching or being negative about anyone
There was no arguments, I would simply say to them * I really don't want to listen to this, it makes me uncomfortable and its hurtful" and walk away. Their behaviour changed and my life as been so much easier as a result and as a consequence I am not dragged into their drama's as much.

Its not easy by any means but it does take effort on your part to focus on YOU and how you want to react rather than wasting your energy worrying about their reactions.

The fundamental thing to remember is that you are not going to change your mother, the easiest thing to do is to accept her for who she is ( flaws and all) but to really focus on your reactions and where you want to invest your energy

Rubberchikken

You have to look after yourself. I agree with above ^^ don't engage with her when she's not respecting you.
Do as you would with a toddler throwing a tantrum, step away.

You won't change her. All the talking in the world won't alter her personality so you have to step back.

Let your brother smoke weed. Tbh if he's okd enough to be wasting his life he's old enough to deal with the fall out.

Do you resemble/ behave like a sibling or relation of your mothers?
Reason i ask is that sometimes a child can be very like a relation from a previous generation which can stir up bad memories.

Is there a chance that this is happening with your mother.

I'm not excusing her behaviour just trying to get you to see other options for why she treats you differently.

Good luck

DeltaWhite

I really dont agree with anyone who tells you to cut your mother out of your life, it really is not as simple as that. You only get one mother, even if she is being extremely difficult she is still your mother.

I have the same problem with my brother who is also an alcoholic and my counsellor told me that there is NOTHING I can do and there is NOTHING I should do, it's his life, his problem.

So I've just had to learn to ignore what he's doing and let him mess up his own life. At 40 years of age he should know better so I just dont care anymore.

I think maybe you should do the same, let him off doing what he's doing and you just worry about yourself. As for your mam, well you can control whether you want to talk to her or not when she's being difficult. Great advice above, but I definitely wouldnt go cutting her out of your life for good.

LegacyUser

OP again.
Thank you image_verification.
My father is quite a submissive "stick your head in the sand" kind of man.
He pretty much takes no role in anything except to support my mother when she calls for him to get rid of us if we are getting on our mothers nerves.
He would just come in and say ok out, go out and leave your mother alone, he wouldnt even know what was going on, or ask.
He spends all of his time inside the house watching tv. And I mean all of it.
Other times he does the garden or goes out to do jobs.
He doesnt really want to know about what goes on or get involved in any way.
He pretty much just does what my mother tells him to do, I suspect mostly to keep the peace.
Even when my brother was an alcoholic living at home, drinking first thing in the morning and all day long, he would never speak a word to him, just sit in his own sitting room watching tv as though both of them lived in separate houses.
My dads not a bad man, he's just not a very involved father and my mother controls pretty much everything and decided on everything when we were growing up.

OMG Rubberchikken!!!
My mother does have a sister who she was insanely jealous of growing up, who she used to bully badly when they were little and who people say I look like.
She has sometimes called me by this aunties name by mistake.
She also said that when I was younger she thought I would turn out like my aunty because I was also a bit tomboyish and liked to run around outside and climb trees etc.
I wonder sometimes does my mother see me like her younger sister, and see my older sister like herself.
She has a good relationship with my older sister, she would do anything for her.
My sister does not have any alcohol or drug problems, like myself, but she does tend to be quite a selfish person and only really cares about in the context of what I can do for her.

I must say, all this writing is getting a LOAD off my chest.
I feel stronger already.
Thank you all.

LegacyUser

Thank you doireann08
Its crazy how much the negativity and dysfunction bleeds into other members of a family.
People in my life have always noted how all of my siblings have been affected in some way by our mother, not just me. And our father, to a lesser extent.
I've seen the nastiness and competition in my relations as well.
Too much drama and gossip and judgement always flying around, I cant stand it.
Again, all my mums side of the family.
The amount of rows that have been caused over complete non-issues.

Everyone has their own way of dealing I suppose, and mine has always been to confront the bad stuff and question the patterns and the behaviors.
I just need to learn to walk away, and stay away.

LegacyUser

DeltaWhite wrote: »

I really dont agree with anyone who tells you to cut your mother out of your life, it really is not as simple as that. You only get one mother, even if she is being extremely difficult she is still your mother.

Thats not very fair, just because somebody is a mother does not give them carte blanche to treat their children badly.

LegacyUser

Hi OP, your family sounds exactly like my husbands. There are two girls and two boys. The mother is controlling and was physically abusive to her sons only and their dad hides away in work and says nothing.

My husband has tried to cut contact with his mother but he loves his dad so has to put up with her to see him. I try to avoid them as I am very angry at the dad for not stepping in and helping his children and his mother is all fake nice if we go there. His brother has a much happier life since he left the country so he just avoids her calls now. When he comes home (every two years) he is treated like a nuisance in the house. But she spends her time telling everyone else how great and successful he is thanks to her help!

I agree you remind your mother of someone she doesn't like, like you said you are like your aunt. My mother in laws problem with her sons is that they remind her of her brother who she hated.

When we had our Wedding she refused to mention it in my presence. She only spoke about it with my husband and he would tell her to ask me but she never did. I had no intention of bringing it up with her so she got an invitation the same as everyone else informing her of the details. She tried to suggest a few changes to us but I told her no without any further discussion on the matter.

Weddings are stressful. My husband didn't want her at it originally but released that it just wasn't possible to do that. It would be very awkward to cut your mother out but still have her at your wedding so my advice is to plan and book it and then give her the invite. Don't involve her in the day to day planning. It will only upset you and ruin your wedding.

After that cut it down to the bare minimum of contact. There will be always things that crop up in life that you want to tell your mother. Just don't allow those things to get you back into square 1 of full contact again.

doireann08

two_AM wrote: »

Thank you doireann08


Everyone has their own way of dealing I suppose, and mine has always been to confront the bad stuff and question the patterns and the behaviors.
I just need to learn to walk away, and stay away.

Thanks - My advice is not to walk away or stay away or to cut relations with your family - that is for you to decide - What I am saying is to establish boundaries with them, focus on your goals and change your reactions to them.

LegacyUser

Thanks Doireann, I really meant walk away and stay away from the drama and the rows more so than my actual family members cheers