Back to the Future

RedRunner

Ososlo wrote: »

Really sorry to hear about the recent trouble R. I SO wanted you to get to the startline in good nick this time. Your goal is conservative for you and you seemed to be going about it sensibly. Some people here like yourself, just never seem to get a break and it sucks Maybe a longer build up time to a Spring marathon would have been the way to go due to the injury history, but I totally understand your reasoning behind wanting to give it a shot.
I have no advice to offer you really but hope things come good for you. There is still a good bit of time to sort it.
I drink a lot of veggie juices with high beetroot content which is anti-flamm I think, so maybe that would be something to try. Besides that, the usual icing and foam rolling and good physio advice. If you have been going to the same physio for a while and not getting much joy, then maybe it's time to try a different one.
Maybe for your next training block, you could find a physio who is also a running coach who could write you up a programme with a very slow build up.
Good luck and I have everything crossed for you.

Thanks A. As it happens I have some beetroot juice in the fridge already so will stock up again. As regards the physio I've no complaints as they always fixed whatever ailment I went to them with. I'm in the ballot for London, If I'm successful in that it may have a heavy influence on what I do at the end of October similar to 2013/14.

RedRunner

Kennyg71 wrote: »

Bucket ice water after every LR or MLR for about 15 mins, really hard to keep
Feet in but is really good, did that all last year, also hot water bottle in evening
to get blood flowing to it. Hope it comes good, how bad is it on scale 1-10
my left Achilles always sore and swollen and have to manage it as per above.
Ignored routine this year and paid for it, it's a pain in the arse, have you tried
Ecentric heal drops, good excerises for upper part of achillies but no use for
lower part. Hope it comes good.

Thanks G. I can never know when the right time to switch from ice to heat is but I'll stick with icing for next couple of days.

On a scale of 1-10.....I'd say a 4 at the moment. Wasn't sore when I woke up this morning and put the foot to the floor so I think that is relatively positive.

Eccentric heel drops are one of the exercises i'm doing alright along with single leg calf/heal raises.

Thanks

joesoap5

Hi Red,

I think your own synopsis is correct.
You did too much too soon.
You ran 10 miles and the following day you ran 20 if I read it right.
You're probably not in a state if you were out with injury to be doing that much in two days.

Firedance

RedRunner wrote: »

Wasn't sore when I woke up this morning and put the foot to the floor so I think that is relatively positive.

This reminds me of PF in that regard, I used to (sometimes still do) do 'the alphabet' with my feet before I get out of bed, worked wonders as it gently limbers up the foot and leg muscles. Sure it's worth a try!!

RedRunner

joesoap5 wrote: »

Hi Red,

I think your own synopsis is correct.
You did too much too soon.
You ran 10 miles and the following day you ran 20 if I read it right.
You're probably not in a state if you were out with injury to be doing that much in two days.

Thanks JS5.You're right of course if you look at that in isolation but the reason I did that was because it was in the plan and I'm just following the plan and had been for several weeks before that. Having said that, perhaps it was the wrong plan given where I was coming from.

I do think though that I had been reasonably sensible over the last several weeks with a gradual increase in running and zero intensity just all easy running.

aquinn

Sorry to read this R. How are you doing now?

RedRunner

aquinn wrote: »

Sorry to read this R. How are you doing now?

Hi A. Thanks, and thank you for not saying "I told you so! "

I'm feeling a little more positive today. I don't have pain when I'm walking at all and even if I break into a jog, no pain. There is just a sense of it is not quite right, or "one of these Achilles is not like the other.." if that makes sense.

I will spend the rest of the week rehabbing the hell out of it and might jog the park run on Saturday as a little tester. It would make no sense for me to run the HM at this stage as I'd gain very little from it and possibly aggravate it so I'm thinking RICE all week with exercises, maybe PR on Saturday and if all ok, gradual increase in mileage, running every second day for following week and then try up mileage again , the week following that. Sound like an ok plan??

Will also probably try bring my next physio appointment forward to get some early treatment.

RedRunner

Injury Update

Went to physio last night and there is not as much doom and gloom as I first may have thought. In summary these are the take aways from the visit;

• No running until he gives the all clear. back again with him next Thursday.
• Specific set of exercises given
• I must walk for 90 mins at least 5 of the 7 days until next appointment. (that one surprised me )
• hot and cold submersion of Achilles 5 mins on/off for 20 mins each day. 2-3 times if possible.
• Probably unlikely to get another 20 mile training run between now and DCM day

Got a bit of dry needling and massage so hopefully things will improve over coming days

joesoap5

RedRunner wrote: »

Injury Update

Went to physio last night and there is not as much doom and gloom as I first may have thought. In summary these are the take aways from the visit;

• No running until he gives the all clear. back again with him next Thursday.
• Specific set of exercises given
• I must walk for 90 mins at least 5 of the 7 days until next appointment. (that one surprised me )
• hot and cold submersion of Achilles 5 mins on/off for 20 mins each day. 2-3 times if possible.
• Probably unlikely to get another 20 mile training run between now and DCM day

Got a bit of dry needling and massage so hopefully things will improve over coming days

So what are you planning on doing RR, will you try for the marathon and what time are you aiming for?

RedRunner

joesoap5 wrote: »

So what are you planning on doing RR, will you try for the marathon and what time are you aiming for?

Hi JS.

My plan is to follow the instructions of physio and review next week. But I am aiming to make the startline if I get the all clear. I simply want to run it , no time in mind, treat it as a training run if you like. Based on the last 20 miler, all things being equal I think 4.20-4.30 would be do-able but it really depends on what I can do over the next four weeks and the assumption is that I am pain free.

if there is pain , no DCM.

joesoap5

RedRunner wrote: »

Hi JS.

My plan is to follow the instructions of physio and review next week. But I am aiming to make the startline if I get the all clear. I simply want to run it , no time in mind, treat it as a training run if you like. Based on the last 20 miler, all things being equal I think 4.20-4.30 would be do-able but it really depends on what I can do over the next four weeks and the assumption is that I am pain free.

if there is pain , no DCM.

I cam see you running 4 to 4.10 really and probably hobbling for a while afterwards but you'll be grand.

RedRunner

23/9 - Rested

24/9 - 98 mins walk at brisk pace. Stretching exercises, contrast bathing of achilles.

25/9 - 89 mins walk at brisk pace. Wore the garmin for this one .6 miles exactly in 89mins.

26/9 - cycle commute to work. 6.5miles each way plus 101 mins walk in pm.6.79 miles covered.

Achilles is improving I think but it is hard to tell how well.It still is slightly tender if you get the right spot. I've absolutely no pain on the walks or during the day. I just have to be patient and keep following the physio's plan.

RedRunner

27/9 - Cycle commute

28/9 - Cycle commute plus 5.23miles walk in 1:23

29/9 - 6.37 miles walk in 1:40 after physio visit. He was happy with progress and gave me new exercises and changed up the plan for the next week.

30/9 - Rested

1/10 - Rested and enjoyed the atmosphere once again in Croke Park, this time lifting SAM!:):):)

2/10 - 3hr hike. Instruction from physio was 3hrs walking with natural terrain and hills so set out and took off for Sutton and tookin the cliff walk towards Howth village and back home from there. 3hrs 15mins and 11.76 miles covered over undulating terrain. As for the achilles it felt fine during and afterwards. To say it is 100% wouldnt be truthful but it felt no worse after the hike and in general terms I dont have pain unless I go searching for it. There is still a tender spot that I can find. Have continued with contrast bathing etc, anti inflammatory gel, exercises, taping at times, calf guards. Trying everything under the sun.

3/10 - Cycle commute and usual routine of exercises and contrast bathing

4/10 - Cycle commute and first run in 16/17 days. 1 minute on 1 minute off for ten minutes. No pain in achilles. Followed by more contrast bathing.

joesoap5

RedRunner wrote: »

27/9 - Cycle commute

28/9 - Cycle commute plus 5.23miles walk in 1:23

29/9 - 6.37 miles walk in 1:40 after physio visit. He was happy with progress and gave me new exercises and changed up the plan for the next week.

30/9 - Rested

1/10 - Rested and enjoyed the atmosphere once again in Croke Park, this time lifting SAM!:):):)

2/10 - 3hr hike. Instruction from physio was 3hrs walking with natural terrain and hills so set out and took off for Sutton and tookin the cliff walk towards Howth village and back home from there. 3hrs 15mins and 11.76 miles covered over undulating terrain. As for the achilles it felt fine during and afterwards. To say it is 100% wouldnt be truthful but it felt no worse after the hike and in general terms I dont have pain unless I go searching for it. There is still a tender spot that I can find. Have continued with contrast bathing etc, anti inflammatory gel, exercises, taping at times, calf guards. Trying everything under the sun.

3/10 - Cycle commute and usual routine of exercises and contrast bathing

4/10 - Cycle commute and first run in 16/17 days. 1 minute on 1 minute off for ten minutes. No pain in achilles. Followed by more contrast bathing.

So what are you planning RR, are you going to do the DM?
If you're able to walk up steep inclines then its a good sign and you're probably strengthening the muscles around the Achilles as well.

RedRunner

joesoap5 wrote: »

So what are you planning RR, are you going to do the DM?
If you're able to walk up steep inclines then its a good sign and you're probably strengthening the muscles around the Achilles as well.

I won't make a decision on this until very late in the day, possibly even the day before the expo. It will depend on many factors including;

• The physio's advice
• If I feel that physically there is improvement over next couple of weeks
• What kind of running I get in over the next few weeks
• If the tenderness is gone or negligible
• If I feel mentally ready to give it a go
• If I am successful in London ballot or not

At the moment it feels like it's touch an go, could go either way

joesoap5

RedRunner wrote: »

I won't make a decision on this until very late in the day, possibly even the day before the expo. It will depend on many factors including;

• The physio's advice
• If I feel that physically there is improvement over next couple of weeks
• What kind of running I get in over the next few weeks
• If the tenderness is gone or negligible
• If I feel mentally ready to give it a go
• If I am successful in London ballot or not

At the moment it feels like it's touch an go, could go either way

Yeah I'm in the ballot myself, if I get an entry I might skip DCM

RedRunner

5/10 - REST

6/10 - AM - Cycle Commute. PM - Physio Visit. Physio is happy and upbeat with my progress. Wish I could share his positivity to be honest but I will roll with it for now and keep following his plan. More dry needling, bit of massage and new exercise regime with gentle reintroduction of running this week.

7/10 - AM - Walk commute to work. 7.15miles 1hr 44mins. PM - Cycle commute

8/10 - AM Park Run Volunteering. Roped #1 son into it too as part of his Gaisce.

PM - 6.95 miles walk with 2mins on/ff thrown in somewhere in the middle. 8 mins running total. All on the beach.

9/10 - AM 1.65mi - 2 mins on/off running . Total 10 mins running

PM - 6.8miles brisk walk 1 hr 40mins

HelenAnne

I just read Jo Pavey's autobiography and she managed to keep really fit through walking during periods of injury, so hopefully it will stand to you too!

RedRunner

HelenAnne wrote: »

I just read Jo Pavey's autobiography and she managed to keep really fit through walking during periods of injury, so hopefully it will stand to you too!

Funny you should say that H. At the beginning I was thinking , walking, what use will that be? But the physio says it is to replicate the mechanics of running (but obviously with less stress) and to keep up some form of fitness on top of the cycling. Got to admit that felt more tired after some of the walks than I would after longer runs. Only recently I had convinced myself that this could help me if I make the start line of DCM in terms of time on the feet and overall stamina. And in fact have been thinking in terms of the future, perhaps this is what I should do on "rest days"

Surely not still thinking of DCM?

RedRunner

Exactly wrote: »

Surely not still thinking of DCM?

Flip/Flopping every day!

RedRunner

RedRunner wrote: »

Flip/Flopping every day!

Would it not be detrimental at this point to your long term recovery even if you did manage to get through it?

RedRunner

Exactly wrote: »

Would it not be detrimental at this point to your long term recovery even if you did manage to get through it?

I agree that from the outside looking in, you probably think I'm bloody bonkers. I can understand that. I'm running with zero pain at the moment, and working hard on strengthening calves etc.following the rehab plan etc I plan on doing at least ten miles the week before. If I don't make it through that with zero reaction, DCM won't happen.

Murph_D

Ah Robbie, that IS totally bonkers. It's less than 3 weeks away. You know better. Write it off, plenty of time for a different one.

Good to see you at parkrun the other day. All the best with the continuing rehab.

Firedance

Murph_D wrote: »

Ah Robbie, that IS totally bonkers. It's less than 3 weeks away. You know better. Write it off, plenty of time for a different one.

Good to see you at parkrun the other day. All the best with the continuing rehab.

Was just about to post something similar, it's just not worth it R, its just another marathon, there are tons of these month after month - the chances are if you do DCM you'll struggle even more with injury and recovery well into 2017, ditch it now and write if off as Murph suggests and you can be well on the road to recovery by the end of the year ready to start fresh in January.

You'd say the same to any one of us...

Duanington

loads of other races to look at R - get the Achilles right and forget this years DCM. You know it makes sense !

RedRunner

10/10 - AM Cycle commute PM Cycle commute + 102mins brisk walk inc 10 mins consecutive running towards end.

Headed out when I got home for this walk and brought the head torch with notions of running on the grass in StAnnes. My God, walking around StAnnes in the dark is spooky! Had the earphones in and the head torch on, so felt like I was in my own world but also felt like I was walking through the set of one of those scary movies. Especially when going down the tree lined pathways. At one point I turned around and could see the light of someones bike behind me. I turned around again and it was gone. Woooooh! Got to the main avenue and headed for the main gate. As I looked around I could see lots of little eyes shining back at me. No creepy clowns though! At that point I said feck the running on the grass I'm outta here. Walked around the outskirts and made my way back to the coast and got 10 mins running on the coastal path.

11/10- AM Cycle commute PM Cycle commute and raft of strengthening exercises. #exhausted

12/10 - AM Cycle commute PM Cycle commute + 13 mins continuous running. Headed for St Annes as soon as I got home. Wanted to get up there before it got dark. I'm such a wuss! Anyway it went fine. I was tired from cycle but achilles felt fine and could have run for longer but didnt. I think the tenderness has reduced slightly more and it is heading in the right direction.

In other news ,got confirmation that I missed out on the London Ballot

HelenAnne

I'm sure you know this, but be careful running in the dark / dusk in St Anne's on the grass or trails -- I've got caught in there once or twice as night was falling, and it's so easy to trip or catch your foot in tree root. Sorry if that's stating the obvious, but the last thing you need is a new injury from tripping in the park in the dark!

Sorry to hear about London. I've heard so many people have got 'now' - are they letting anyone in at all!!! :eek:

hillsiderunner

Please don't do the DCM, RedRunner (written by another injury-prone boardsie). I found your old log about 4months ago when I had my disc/sciatica diagnosed and reading through your injuries I felt like I had a twin. But it was really great to hit the section where you got a long stretch of consistent running, it gave me hope.

There will be other marathons but you don't want to risk your achilles .

Btw, *everyone* missed out on the London ballot! Only real hope of getting in is if you have the qualification time...

RedRunner

After much soul searching, reality checking and reviewing words of wisdom from those on here whom I have a lot of respect for I have made the decision NOT to run DCM this year.

I had intended to wait until physio appointment on Monday but why delay the inevitable and I don't want to be swayed by any glimmers of hope he might have.

The achilles has improved greatly in the last week but I've been looking from a risk/reward basis and I think I've a lot more to lose if things go pear shaped on the day. I've also considered the training I've done this year. While I managed to get up to 20 miles recently in long runs, there haven't been enough of them for my liking and training since July has been patchy at best.

I've always preferred to be optimistic about running DCM and do everything that I could to be ready but I have also said I will make the right decision when it comes down to it and I feel this is the right decision.

So what's the plan?

I will follow now what I predict will be a less rushed and more structured come back plan from the physio and try to build up a decent base over the Winter with lots of consistent running. I will aim to vary the running surfaces more and generally just try to get the running mojo back as well as lose a few pounds but that will come hand in hand with getting back running regularly.

I'm not going to target any future marathons for now and will concentrate on the shorter stuff paying particular attention to the 5k and 20min barrier.
I will review where I am at in Summer of next year with regards to any marathon plans.

That's as much as I can say about it at the moment and I'll refine my plans more as the training becomes more consistent. It's disappointing but I have to think of the longer term and all those "gratitude" runs as Frank Greally would call them.

Thanks to all who have offered words of advice over the course of last couple of months. Look forward to getting back in shape and seeing you all out there soon.

Wubble Wubble

Sorry to hear that R. Right decision IMHO.

Best of luck with the recovery. I've no doubt you'll get the sub-20 once you're fully fit and firing on all cylinders again.

J.

Ososlo

Plenty more marathons in your future R, and looking forward to watching the sub 20 happen.
Onwards!

tang1

Right decision R, get a good period of injury free running into the legs and think about a marathon then maybe. Best of luck with the continued rehab & return to running. You deserve a break.

Duanington

You'll reap the rewards of that decision R - so long as you put in the training now of course!

Cracking the 20 minute barrier should ultimately lead to a better marathon experience for you anyway.

Good luck with the training\rehab!

Kennyg71

long term right decision, hope to see you back running soon

Bungy Girl

Glad to hear this decision RR, but obviously disappointed for you at the same time as I know how much you wanted to do DCM.

Will follow the sub 20 quest with interest!

Younganne

Difficult but very wise decision Redrunner. Best of luck with the rehab and good luck with returning to consistent injury free running and the Sub 20 .

RedRunner

13/10 - cycle commute both ways and strengthening in pm

14/10 - Rest. Out for a few sociables

15/10 - Park Run Volunteering. Had hoped to run in the afternoon but decide to leave it till the next day. Was a bit tired.;)

16/10 - 22 mins continuous running. Achilles was a bit tired after it. May have overdone it. But no long lasting effects

17/10 - A problem that has been linger for some time has gotten worse. Pain in my upper back area between the shoulder blades, and back of neck. I had kind of tolerated it up to now and was more focussed on getting the achilles sorted but this is now an issue. Got voltarol today to see if that would help.

Went out to watch Liverpool game and was uncomfortable for the whole game , not just because of the back :rolleyes:

18/10 - Wow , the pain. Woke up this morning and could barely move. In agony with the back. It definitely feels muscular but not sure of the cause. Had to take day off work. Not capable of anything

19/10 - Back at work. Got through day with painkillers & voltarol. Managed a few calf strengthening exercises but back with physio tomorrow and will ask him about the back too. Never rains but it pours !:(

tang1

Sorry to hear about the back R, smart move on pulling the plug on DCM.

Firedance

Oh god that's awful R I hope you get it sorted quickly.

Steroo

Try foam roll your back ?

RedRunner

Firedance wrote: »

Oh god that's awful R I hope you get it sorted quickly.

Thanks FD. If I was a horse, i'd be brought out and shot!

RedRunner

Steroo wrote: »

Try foam roll your back ?

I tried that once with my lower back and made it worse so will see what the physio says today. I have a funny feeling I may end up at the GP to get some strong anti inflammatories. Not sleeping properly at night. Cant continue like that for much longer.

This log is becoming less and less of a training log and more and more of a medical journal...#fedup:(

Murph_D

Sorry to hear this latest setback - sounds very like an issue my brother has, definitely one for the physio or other medic. Foam rolling the back? Please, don't try this again! :eek:

Steroo

Murph_D wrote: »

Sorry to hear this latest setback - sounds very like an issue my brother has, definitely one for the physio or other medic. Foam rolling the back? Please, don't try this again! :eek:

I do my back most days with great results - you have to do it right ; )

Firedance

RedRunner wrote: »

Thanks FD. If I was a horse, i'd be brought out and shot!

You're having a tough time of it R, keep us up to date though, there's not one person here who doesn't understand, that's a lot of ears In the meantime plenty of parkrun volunteering is guaranteed to lift your spirits.

RedRunner

Firedance wrote: »

You're having a tough time of it R, keep us up to date though, there's not one person here who doesn't understand, that's a lot of ears In the meantime plenty of parkrun volunteering is guaranteed to lift your spirits.

Thanks

Physio visit last night. Short version (cos I lost the long version with that captcha thingy kicking in. Very annoying) is that I'm on anti inflammatories (nurofen Express Max strength, heat, new stretches and exercises and should be ok within a week or so. If not , possible MRI but some improvement after treatment last night so I'm hopeful that it wont come to that.

No root cause really, possibly posture related and stress!

Running on back burner till I sort this out. park run volunteering tomorrow as prescribed by Dr FD;)

aquinn

Hey R,

Would you try acupuncture for your back to ease out the muscles?

Take it easy. Cycling may not help if back not great. You could be overstretching.

Go easy on yourself.

RedRunner

aquinn wrote: »

Hey R,

Would you try acupuncture for your back to ease out the muscles?

Take it easy. Cycling may not help if back not great. You could be overstretching.

Go easy on yourself.

Hi A,

I would be open to acupuncture if all else fails. Recommend anyone?

Re the cycling, yes I suggested that I should stop to the physio but he said no unless I was in pain while doing it.

Interestingly I feel improvement directly after exercises the physio gave me but the discomfort returns later. Sleep is still disturbed but to lesser extent. Back with physio again on tuesday.

RedRunner

Just a quick update on the injury situation.

Back at physio yesterday. The back has improved greatly. I am now getting a full night's sleep. While it is not perfect I am certainly more mobile and am confident it will sort itself out in next week or so.

The Achilles is still a WIP. I hadn't done any walking or running since the back flared up as a result I think I've lost some recovery time. I jogged down to physio and it didn't feel great at the outset but did ease a bit after a few minutes. Further proof that DCM was not an option really. Ramp up now in the strength work and exercise and get back to walking and get a progression from walking back to running again over the next few weeks. my calves are definitely stronger now as the #reps are getting greater and easier each week.

I will power walk the park run this weekend and move on from there. I'm going to go out on a limb now and set a sub 20 5k target for end June 2017. That gives me rest of year to get back healthy and then 6 months to do specific 5k training. I'll track my progress on a weekly basis in the Park Run.. Hmmm I feel a log name change coming.... This will be interesting!