The Apple Watch

DivingDuck

Read on another forum earlier that the reason for the cancelled orders being reinstated has something to do with EU rules regarding the illegality of discrimination against purchasers in other countries. Considering it wasn't the country of purchaser so much as the delivery recipient that was the issue here, I'm not sure I buy that, but it would be a positive sign for success of future orders via PM if this were true.

Perhaps an argument could be made that refusing to allow forwarding services, they were restricting sales to within the United Kingdom, as non-UK residents had no other avenues open to them? Or maybe that poster is just talking out their hat? I wouldn't know; EU trade law is not exactly my area.

Either way, it'll be interesting to see how all this pans out. I'll certainly be hoping that PM orders are allowed in the future, but it'll be great to at least get through this launch successfully.

...When you think about it, allowing PM orders is actually of great benefit to Apple. Think of the money they'll save in deliveries! Even if only 100 people are getting their watch through PM, that's 99 trips the driver won't have to make (compared to delivering to 100 different addresses). One stop and he's done, which has to save them a fortune.

Bob24

DivingDuck wrote: »

...When you think about it, allowing PM orders is actually of great benefit to Apple. Think of the money they'll save in deliveries! Even if only 100 people are getting their watch through PM, that's 99 trips the driver won't have to make (compared to delivering to 100 different addresses). One stop and he's done, which has to save them a fortune.

Since all the orders will be shipped as individual parcels, I'd say Apple will be paying the same amount to the courier company.

DivingDuck

If I were a representative from PM trying to encourage Apple to play ball, I know I'd be suggesting they save themselves some time and money by consolidating all PM orders and letting us sort it out on our end, but that's just me.

Zapp Brannigan

Does anyone ever wonder if using the UK store every year for launches (iPhone, Watch etc.) has an impact on any future Irish Apple Store, as by the time the products are released most people have them?

Creamy Goodness

Zapp Brannigan wrote: »

Does anyone ever wonder if using the UK store every year for launches (iPhone, Watch etc.) has an impact on any future Irish Apple Store, as by the time the products are released most people have them?

Nope. Apple aren't stupid. They know exactly where orders are coming from and where they end up. It's trivial to pinpoint where an order ends up even if you ship it to Ireland. Combination of billing address and GeoIP at time of order etc.

Belfast wouldn't have a store if it wasn't part of the U.K. imo.

murpho999

DivingDuck wrote: »

Read on another forum earlier that the reason for the cancelled orders being reinstated has something to do with EU rules regarding the illegality of discrimination against purchasers in other countries. Considering it wasn't the country of purchaser so much as the delivery recipient that was the issue here, I'm not sure I buy that, but it would be a positive sign for success of future orders via PM if this were true.

Perhaps an argument could be made that refusing to allow forwarding services, they were restricting sales to within the United Kingdom, as non-UK residents had no other avenues open to them? Or maybe that poster is just talking out their hat? I wouldn't know; EU trade law is not exactly my area.

Either way, it'll be interesting to see how all this pans out. I'll certainly be hoping that PM orders are allowed in the future, but it'll be great to at least get through this launch successfully.

...When you think about it, allowing PM orders is actually of great benefit to Apple. Think of the money they'll save in deliveries! Even if only 100 people are getting their watch through PM, that's 99 trips the driver won't have to make (compared to delivering to 100 different addresses). One stop and he's done, which has to save them a fortune.

You do realise Apple don't deliver them with their own trucks but use couriers so it's the couriers who'll be happy with increased costs not Apple.

Cyrus

my main concern is these reports of lag,

im not too keen on a laggy experience, it needs to be snappy to work imo, otherwise you will have had your phone out

Knex*

I imagine an issue with PM from an Apple perspective would be that they are outside of the normal carrier process, and as such Apple won't be able to apply normal procedures for issues that may arise such as, lost in transit, customer not being at home for delivery, returns, etc.

In high volumes, it would probably be a nightmare for them.

Aslo, makes sense to me that they would stop Freight Forwarding in general, for not only the above reasons, but for stuff like resellers making money from selling to restricted areas or people.

Fair play to them for actually allowing the watch to ship to Ireland via PM, but I'd love to know why they are allowing it, as its not something I would have expected. Perhaps the numbers of orders were too high to suffer the consequence of customer backlash?

Also, with regards to that person on another forum talking about EU trading law, I find all of that pretty hard to believe.

Creamy Goodness

Cyrus wrote: »

my main concern is these reports of lag,

im not too keen on a laggy experience, it needs to be snappy to work imo, otherwise you will have had your phone out

The laggy experience seems to stem from 3rd party apps. because no code is run on the watch at all the iPhone is doing all computation. This is then beamed over BTLE (which is slow) to the watch.

This is a stop-gap solution IMO, come June at WWDC I bet Apple will launch the full WatchSDK that will allow you to create fully fledged Watch Apps that can run on the watch but use the iPhone for location instead of the iPhone doing everything. Maybe even give us the ability to create watch faces and complications.

Fuzzy Logic

FourFourFM wrote: »

Friend of mine using PM had his order cancelled, reinstated & it's now back to cancelled again. Very strange.

That's exactly what happened to mine. I had the page open on the iMac when I opened it up this morning it was cancelled. Thinking it was in the cache I refreshed my browser and same thing.

FourFourRED

Fuzzy Logic wrote: »

That's exactly what happened to mine. I had the page open on the iMac when I opened it up this morning it was cancelled. Thinking it was in the cache I refreshed my browser and same thing.

Anyone who had their order re-instated, were you using an Irish or UK card?

I rang there and was told mine was cancelled because of an Irish card.

Bob24

Fuzzy Logic wrote: »

That's exactly what happened to mine. I had the page open on the iMac when I opened it up this morning it was cancelled. Thinking it was in the cache I refreshed my browser and same thing.

Now that is starting make them look a bit silly. Either decide to ship or not to ship (either decision is fair enough) ... but don't confuse customers by changing the decision everyday :-/

I don't think Apple would be that silly though ... if they did call people to confirm the orders they are probably going to process them - I suspect a technical issue: maybe they had put in place an automated nightly batch job to detects these orders and cancel them, and forgot to disable that job when they decided they were going to reverse their policy? (miscommunication between business and IT teams ... a good old classic :-))

whiterebel

Knex. wrote: »

I imagine an issue with PM from an Apple perspective would be that they are outside of the normal carrier process, and as such Apple won't be able to apply normal procedures for issues that may arise such as, lost in transit, customer not being at home for delivery, returns, etc.

In high volumes, it would probably be a nightmare for them.

Aslo, makes sense to me that they would stop Freight Forwarding in general, for not only the above reasons, but for stuff like resellers making money from selling to restricted areas or people.

Fair play to them for actually allowing the watch to ship to Ireland via PM, but I'd love to know why they are allowing it, as its not something I would have expected. Perhaps the numbers of orders were too high to suffer the consequence of customer backlash?

Also, with regards to that person on another forum talking about EU trading law, I find all of that pretty hard to believe.

PM doesn't bother Apple as they will have a signature. Damage or loss after that is nothing to do with Apple.

Bob24

whiterebel wrote: »

PM doesn't bother Apple as they will have a signature. Damage or loss after that is nothing to do with Apple.

They will still have to manage returns and customer support for a country where the watch hasn't officially launched.

guil

Bob24 wrote: »

They will still have to manage returns and customer support for a country where the watch hasn't officially launched.

No they won't, they will say return it to the UK for returns.

Bob24

guil wrote: »

No they won't, they will say return it to the UK for returns.

From my own experience (posted earlier on this thread) I know this is incorrect.

Knex*

whiterebel wrote: »

PM doesn't bother Apple as they will have a signature. Damage or loss after that is nothing to do with Apple.

Like Bob was saying, I believe Apple always take the responsibility, not the carrier, and it'll be managed through Ireland.

I don't see how it could be done any other way.

guil

Bob24 wrote: »

From my own experience (posted earlier on this thread) I know this is incorrect.

That was on a brand new iPhone 5 with scuffs, a lot of 5's were delivered like that and replaced.

It depends on the warranty policy, all products used to have a worldwide warranty until LTE appeared. Then all LTE models were only eligible for warranty in the region they were purchased in.
Plenty of users here had to go to Belfast to get iPhones replaced under warranty.

whiterebel

Knex. wrote: »

Like Bob was saying, I believe Apple always take the responsibility, not the carrier, and it'll be managed through Ireland.

I don't see how it could be done any other way.

If there is a problem before it gets to PM, absolutely Apple deal with it. They will not take responsibility for it once it has been "delivered". Do you think they would replace a missing phone or watch that has been safely delivered to a courier of your choice.

Bob24

whiterebel wrote: »

If there is a problem before it gets to PM, absolutely Apple deal with it. They will not take responsibility for it once it has been "delivered". Do you think they would replace a missing phone or watch that has been safely delivered to a courier of your choice.

What if Apple's carrier is saying it has been delivered and signed for but PM are saying they never received it? Or if the box arrives damaged and the Apple's carrier and PM are ? (these things wouldn't be a first and when you two companies involved in the same process and there are issues, each company will always tend to push the blame to the other one - and Apple will be the ones with the customer complaining on the phone and asking for a solution)

Also what if the watch comes phusically damaged or is not working out of the box? (Apple's fault due to failed QC, no the carrier's)

Are they expected to tell you they can't give a replacement unless you can give them a UK address for collection? This really isn't the kind of message they want to deliver for a new product launch (they know the customer will likely complain online saying the Watch is rubbish and Apple is unwilling to replace it - forgetting to mention the cross country purchase). So they will have to handle it for you, probably with at a higher cost to them as it will be off process since the watch is not available here.

Knex*

whiterebel wrote: »

If there is a problem before it gets to PM, absolutely Apple deal with it. They will not take responsibility for it once it has been "delivered". Do you think they would replace a missing phone or watch that has been safely delivered to a courier of your choice.

Pretty sure they do it for their regular couriers when stuff goes missing, but you might be right for PM.

Part of the risk for getting it early, I suppose.

whiterebel

Bob24 wrote: »

What if Apple's carrier is saying it has been delivered and signed for but PM are saying they never received it? Or if the box arrives damaged and the Apple's carrier and PM are ? (these things wouldn't be a first and when you two companies involved in the same process and there are issues, each company will always tend to push the blame to the other one - and Apple will be the ones with the customer complaining on the phone and asking for a solution)

Also what if the watch comes phusically damaged or is not working out of the box? (Apple's fault due to failed QC, no the carrier's)

Are they expected to tell you they can't give a replacement unless you can give them a UK address for collection? This really isn't the kind of message they want to deliver for a new product launch (they know the customer will likely complain online saying the Watch is rubbish and Apple is unwilling to replace it - forgetting to mention the cross country purchase). So they will have to handle it for you, probably with at a higher cost to them as it will be off process since the watch is not available here.

Customer takes responsibility when they decide to circumvent launches in different areas. And once the investigation starts, TNT or UPS will provide a clean PM signature. Apple insure their shipments with their own carriers, but its up to the customer to insure if it goes to another carrier. I actually worked in Apple when people bought the original iPod in the USA before it launched in Europe. When they needed a repair, they had to ship to and from the US at their own expense. They've never really been too bothered about giving people unpleasant news in these circumstances. Same as forcing people to return UK bought iPhones to Belfast, despite having the same mail-in repair strategy for Ireland and the UK

FourFourRED

whiterebel wrote: »

Same as forcing people to return UK bought iPhones to Belfast, despite having the same mail-in repair strategy for Ireland and the UK

UK bought iPhones don't have to go to Belfast. They can be serviced through mail in repair or express replacement service.

guil

FourFourFM wrote: »

UK bought iPhones don't have to go to Belfast. They can be serviced through mail in repair or express replacement service.

So kceire and others here are liars?

Bob24

guil wrote: »

So kceire and others here are liars?

I am not calling anyone a liar but here is my experience with cross border customer service.

My iPhone 5 purchased from the UK online Apple Store through PM:
- arrived damaged and Apple sent me a replacement at my Dublin address
- the power button stopped working before the end of the warranty and I got the full phone replaced at a Paris Apple Store

My iPhone 4S purchased from the French online Apple Store and delivered to a French address:
- the battery died while it was covered under Apple Care and Apple sent a new phone to my Dublin Address

My iPhone 3GS purchased from an Orange physical store in France and unlocked straight away for use in Ireland:
- I sold it to a friend and she had it replaced at an Irish address under Apple Care (I think she killed the battery using it constantly to Tether internet to her laptop)

squonk

If you've purchased Apple Care they'll usually entertain you no matter where you are. Maybe without it they might be more picky. I bought a MacBook Pro stateside and it was always handled from Ireland for under-warranty repairs

FourFourRED

guil wrote: »

So kceire and others here are liars?

The only one mentioning liar is you. They may just be misinformed.

The only reason you wouldn't be eligible for either one of the repair options I specified is if the model was purchased from another region i.e. USA, Asia

You would have to take it to the ARS because they need to order in the specific parts to replace the product. The mail in repair centres & ERS don't have the parts to repair/replace units from another region.

You should probably listen to people who know what they're talking about before making statements like that.

Bob24

squonk wrote: »

If you've purchased Apple Care they'll usually entertain you no matter where you are. Maybe without it they might be more picky. I bought a MacBook Pro stateside and it was always handled from Ireland for under-warranty repairs

MacBooks officially have international have warranties though, so you were definitely entitled for service. iOS devices officially don't but from what I have read Apple usually unofficially covers them in the region where they were purchased rather than just the country.

Edit: I just checked their website and they have actually changed the wording to make it clear that warranty is available across the EEA: "Apple may restrict service for iPad and iPhone to the EEA and Switzerland. Only Apple or an AASP should perform service on iPhone or iPad products."

Knex*

squonk wrote: »

If you've purchased Apple Care they'll usually entertain you no matter where you are. Maybe without it they might be more picky. I bought a MacBook Pro stateside and it was always handled from Ireland for under-warranty repairs

Yeah, Apple Care is independent and world wide, so that's definitely the case.

Not sure on what would happen without it now tbh, reading both sides of the discussion.

Graham

FourFourFM wrote: »

UK bought iPhones don't have to go to Belfast. They can be serviced through mail in repair or express replacement service.

guil wrote: »

So kceire and others here are liars?

Both the Mrs and I have bought several iPhones from the Apple Store in Belfast, never once have we had a problem with using mail in repair or express replacement.

Phone apple, box comes out, box goes in, phone comes back.

Our most recent experience of using the service was December last.