Rogue cyclists set to face on-the-spot fines MOD WARNING in first post

Chips Lovell

On the spot fines doesn't mean the Guards will be collecting cash. It means you'll get a fine in the post rather than having to go to court.

Qualitymark

Jawgap wrote: »

Can't honestly see a Guard taking a bribe not to issue an FPN of any description (if that's what your suggesting) - would you risk your career and reputation for €50?

The FPN will be issued by the Guard and you'll have 56 days to pay using existing procedures - the Guards won't be handling the cash.

I'd imagine if you don't have sufficient id, your bike will be confiscated then returned to you when you produce your id at the station - at which point you'll also get the FPN.

No, I was suggesting that gardaí would say "There's a fine of €x", you'd hand it over, and it would transfer seamlessly into the uniform pocket, as happens in Italy and Greece and other countries where corruption rules.

What's an FPN? And what is this passion for referring to things by initials? We're not Australians!

Danjamin1

Qualitymark wrote: »

Nobody understands 1.5m. Make it two metres - it used to be "six feet clearance", and people will have a notion. Good drivers stay two metres out from cyclists.
But thread-creeping back, on-the-spot fines for cyclists are a) unacceptable if they're not also imposed on drivers, and b) the high road to gardaí taking bribes.
If a garda is supposed to take cash, it's a big temptation for him or her to pocket it. And I can't see them going around with little credit card machines.

It'd most likely be a FPN issued on the spot to be paid like for a car. You get notice of you're details being taken & a fine comes later in the post. I could be very wrong on this but I'd be shocked & disgusted if they started allowing Gardai to collect the fine on the spot.

CramCycle

Qualitymark wrote: »

What's an FPN? And what is this passion for referring to things by initials? We're not Australians!

A fixed penalty notice. You have 56 days to pay it, its not a cash on demand service. Motorists already have these for a multitude of offences. The on the spot fines in the article mean FPNs, not cash on demand, that would be ridiculous.

check_six

The main benefit of a Fixed Penalty Notice type fine is that you know you have received it.

The current system is vague and wooly. The Guard may take your details and not mention that you will be getting a summons but you get one anyway. The Guard may say you are getting a summons and it could take months for it to arrive. The Guard may say you are getting a summons but not bother to send one so you don't know what is happening for several months with maybe a court date hanging over you.

NBar

Wait until the weekends out around Howth/Sutton/Malahide with all the cyclists stoping at the lights up front and lights go green and motorists all held back when delayed by cyclists getting going, then we will have another rant for McGrath to go on about, more cycle paths with cycle traffic signals and maybe a full review

Chips Lovell

What?

07Lapierre

NBar wrote: »

Wait until the weekends out around Howth/Sutton/Malahide with all the cyclists stoping at the lights up front and lights go green and motorists all held back when delayed by cyclists getting going, then we will have another rant for McGrath to go on about, more cycle paths with cycle traffic signals and maybe a full review

... Em...OK, is this a good or a bad thing?

CramCycle

NBar wrote: »

Wait until the weekends out around Howth/Sutton/Malahide with all the cyclists stoping at the lights up front and lights go green and motorists all held back when delayed by cyclists getting going, then we will have another rant for McGrath to go on about, more cycle paths with cycle traffic signals and maybe a full review

Are you stating that running lights is beneficial for other road users? Have to say you might be talking to the wrong crowd here.

Finian McGrath is a populist. He wants a third rate of tax for high earners but no details, wants cyclists off the footpaths and roads but no concern for the affect to Public Health.

His mouth buzzes away but all it spews is a populist hatchet job of quotes from other politicians in which he has put no background thought whatsoever into. I imagine there is a monkey upstairs with a bingo tumbler that has parts of quotes from populist parties and Radio phone in shows. The monkey picks them out at random and feeds it directly to Finians voice box.

Jawgap

NBar wrote: »

Wait until the weekends out around Howth/Sutton/Malahide with all the cyclists stoping at the lights up front and lights go green and motorists all held back when delayed by cyclists getting going, then we will have another rant for McGrath to go on about, more cycle paths with cycle traffic signals and maybe a full review

Stream of consciousness posting.......it's de new ting......

Grandpa Hassan

07Lapierre wrote: »

... Em...OK, is this a good or a bad thing?

I think NBar's point is that if every cyclist stopped at red lights = group is slower to get away when lights turn green (especially if need to clip in) = motorists delayed when lights go green = fewer motorists get through the green = more annoyed motorists.

And that motorists dont actually realise that cyclists are doing them a favour by jumping the red and getting out of their way. Allowing them a speedier get away.

Its not a valid reason for allowing cyclists an exemption from traffic lights. But it would be, at some junctions, an unintended consequence of compliance with the law

Carpentry

Will the pedestrians be penalized for crossing on red light too ?

Tony EH

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

I think NBar's point is that if every cyclist stopped at red lights = group is slower to get away when lights turn green (especially if need to clip in) = motorists delayed when lights go green = fewer motorists get through the green = more annoyed motorists.

And that motorists dont actually realise that cyclists are doing them a favour by jumping the red and getting out of their way. Allowing them a speedier get away.

Its not a valid reason for allowing cyclists an exemption from traffic lights. But it would be, at some junctions, an unintended consequence of compliance with the law

I've had godshites beeping at me because I was, inevitably, slower to move on a green light on my bike, than they were in their car.

Danjamin1

Tony EH wrote: »

I've had godshites beeping at me because I was, inevitably, slower to move on a green light on my bike, than they were in their car.

I find myself getting away from teh light quicker than most cars, sure they catch up in no time, but I definitely am not delaying anyone at the lights! Some people are just dopes though, had one beep me today for going around a corner & turning in to the advance stop section of the lane going the other way (there was no right turn at the junction). I didn't block him or impede him at all, just a dope.

Carpentry

Tony EH wrote: »

I've had godshites beeping at me because I was, inevitably, slower to move on a green light on my bike, than they were in their car.

I really don't understand cyclist lining up in front of the cars at the red light, making impossible for them to take off.
Cars don't do it so why would cyclists do and why Gardai let them to ?

Danjamin1

Carpentry wrote: »

I really don't understand cyclist lining up in front of the cars at the red light, making impossible for them to take off.
Cars don't do it so why would cyclists do and why Gardai let them to ?

Because it allows you to position yourself in front of the traffic which is safer as you can make sure you're visible to drivers.

tunney

Carpentry wrote: »

I really don't understand cyclist lining up in front of the cars at the red light, making impossible for them to take off.
Cars don't do it so why would cyclists do and why Gardai let them to ?

In the rush hour traffic..... where the cars are bumper to bumper 50m up the road......

Jawgap

Carpentry wrote: »

I really don't understand cyclist lining up in front of the cars at the red light, making impossible for them to take off.
Cars don't do it so why would cyclists do and why Gardai let them to ?

Because quite often roads don't line up and the far side of a junction may require a cyclist to take a position further right or risk getting 'pinned' against the opposite margin or kerb.

Anyway, it shouldn't be a problem because cars respect the advanced stop line on many junctions, don't they?

Macy0161

Carpentry wrote: »

Cars don't do it so why would cyclists do and why Gardai let them to ?

Cars don't do what? Delay other cars at lights? Well I call bs on that - loads of them texting or doing make up or simply not paying attention and are slow to move on a green light.

Getting to the front of the queue is a safety issue for cyclists - that's why at many junctions there's the advanced stop line/ cycle box at the front. Of course, all the ultra compliant motorists 100% observe these areas at lights...

Carpentry

Danjamin1 wrote: »

Because it allows you to position yourself in front of the traffic which is safer as you can make sure you're visible to drivers.

tunney wrote: »

In the rush hour traffic..... where the cars are bumper to bumper 50m up the road......

Jawgap wrote: »

Because quite often roads don't line up and the far side of a junction may require a cyclist to take a position further right or risk getting 'pinned' against the opposite margin or kerb.

Anyway, it shouldn't be a problem because cars respect the advanced stop line on many junctions, don't they?

I cannot find your answers to be reasonable.

Tenzor07

Carpentry wrote: »

I really don't understand cyclist lining up in front of the cars at the red light, making impossible for them to take off.
Cars don't do it so why would cyclists do and why Gardai let them to ?

Making it "impossible?" A complete exaggeration! Car's don't do what? Line up at a red light? How many cars would you get in a line-up at a typical traffic signal? 1? 2? 3?

There's a thing called the "advanced stop box" for cyclists at each set of traffic signals, and is there for a reason.. Now, what should accompany this in city centers and general urban areas is bicycle traffic lights which allow a 3 second "head start" for bicyclists.

I often noticed bicyclists queuing at traffic signals in-between vehicles and wonder why they do it?

Lemming

Carpentry wrote: »

I cannot find your answers to be reasonable.

Why?

Danjamin1

Carpentry wrote: »

I cannot find your answers to be reasonable.

Well they're the main reasons for it so it's your own issue.

07Lapierre

Tony EH wrote: »

I've had godshites beeping at me because I was, inevitably, slower to move on a green light on my bike, than they were in their car.

Your a cyclist...why didn't you move off when the light was still red?

On a serious note..I do move off a few seconds before the light is green.. Yes it's illegal, but it's safer for me, and as we can see from some of the posts above, many motorists are impatient and don't like to be held up for a second, once the light goes green.

Oh and when I do this... I've no doubt the driver in the car behind me is thinking "bloody cyclist! .. No respect for traffic lights!"

Jawgap

Carpentry wrote: »

I cannot find your answers to be reasonable.

Well, sorry, I guess - it's just my take on it based on experience around the city and country - ymmv.

Carpentry

Macy0161 wrote: »

Cars don't do what? Delay other cars at lights? Well I call bs on that - loads of them texting or doing make up or simply not paying attention and are slow to move on a green light.

Getting to the front of the queue is a safety issue for cyclists - that's why at many junctions there's the advanced stop line/ cycle box at the front. Of course, all the ultra compliant motorists 100% observe these areas at lights...

I've been cycling since I was a kid and cycling to work for the past six years and never could understand this behavior.

Tenzor07

At least one politician with his head screwed on:

Cllr Cuffe said: “”We all agree that penalties need to be introduced to combat dangerous cycling, and that all cyclists must obey the rules of the road, but where is the accompanying plan to introduce safe road infrastructure that protects all road users?”

“This seems to be a ham-fisted approach at trying to solve the problem of dangerous cycling. As anyone who has cycled in a major urban centre knows, it’s a nightmare to negotiate vehicles and careless pedestrians; a problem compounded by the dangerous road infrastructure,” said Cuffe.

He added: “Many cyclists are rightly furious that the new €50 fines are larger than the penalties for parking on a cycle lane. This dangerous practice forces cyclists out into traffic and puts lives at risk. Tackling one dangerous behaviour while allowing another, more serious breach, to get less attention serves to show where the Government’s priorities lie.

He said that towns and cities across the country are still awaiting contraflow lanes that would “solve the problem of cyclists venturing the wrong way up streets”, and that cyclist-friendly traffic light systems are still absent “despite their successful introduction in many European cities”.

“Ireland is not a bike-friendly country, and until the Government acknowledges the many hazards and difficulties that cyclists face on a daily basis, these fines will do little to allay the problems we see. Minister Donohoe would be better off progressing plans to operate automated red light running detection equipment at traffic signals to penalise drivers who break the law,” said Cuffe.

source

Danjamin1

Carpentry wrote: »

I've been cycling /not just/ to work for the past four years and never could understand this behavior.

Where would you position yourself if the advance area wasn't there? Between two cars? I'd prefer to be out in front and clearly visible personally.

Macy0161

Carpentry wrote: »

I've been cycling since I was a kid and cycling to work for the past six years and never could understand this behavior.

What behaviour? Taking up a safer road position?

Carpentry

Macy0161 wrote: »

What behaviour? Taking up a safer road position?

It's called obstructing the traffic.