Rogue cyclists set to face on-the-spot fines MOD WARNING in first post

Pinch Flat

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I recently spent a bit of time in Copenhagen - a place where you have to marvel at the sheer number of bikes and cyclists around the place. I also had to admire the way in which all street users (cyclists, drivers and pedestrians) seemed to be able to get around and get along.

Due regard and consideration for others is where its at, folks, and it's also worth keeping in mind that cyclists and pedestrians are in a more risky position than drivers are.

Same here on a recent trip to Bavaria - busy littler market towns. Nice to see all sorts of bikes - utility bikes with panniers picking up fruit and veg and mountain bikers kitted out for a group spin. All mingling freely with pedestrians - everyone had an awareness and respect for others

knockoutned

Deleted User wrote: »

I recently spent a bit of time in Copenhagen - a place where you have to marvel at the sheer number of bikes and cyclists around the place. I also had to admire the way in which all street users (cyclists, drivers and pedestrians) seemed to be able to get around and get along.

Due regard and consideration for others is where its at, folks, and it's also worth keeping in mind that cyclists and pedestrians are in a more risky position than drivers are.

I'm not sure if Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel (HBO) is available in Ireland, but they recently had a segment on the issues cycling and cyclist are facing in major US cities. A lot of them appear to be similar to Dublin. As part of the show they went to both Copenhagen and Amsterdam and compared them to how US cities are adapting.

I didn't realize that Copenhagen was bad if not worse than Dublin with motor traffic back in the 1970's. There may be hope for Dublin yet!

Shep_Dog

RainyDay wrote: »

Sorry, but that's not the question I asked. Is there a problem with IDing users of Dublin Bikes?

Did I say there was?

RainyDay

Shep_Dog wrote: »

Did I say there was?

So why would we want another layer of bureaucracy and legislation to create a points system to solve a non-existent problem?

Grandpa Hassan

Shep_Dog wrote: »

Maybe a points system could be operated by Dublin bikes and repeat offenders could have their access blocked?

Be interested to know when someone on a Dublin bike actually hurt anyone. They are nothing more than an annoyance, at worst. They can't even go very fast. Why spend a ton of money trying to put in place a system that won't be enforced (because the gardai don't want to nail tourists unless they absolutely can't help it) and in any case addresses a problem that doesn't even exist except in the mind of those who are too easily annoyed

Shep_Dog

RainyDay wrote: »

So why would we want another layer of bureaucracy and legislation to create a points system to solve a non-existent problem?

You've created a straw-man argument about ID. I stated what actual problem is.

Shep_Dog

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

(because the gardai don't want to nail tourists

That would be unfair.

Tony EH

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Walked down grafton street earlier - packed with people. Guy on a bike heads right down the middle of the street, past two guards who completely ignored him.

And nobody died!!!

galwaycyclist

buffalo wrote: »

Are they not a sports body? I didn't expect Motorsport Ireland to comment on the 30kph city centre limits.

Well the problem with that explanation is that CyclingIreland put themselves forward for, and were given, the lead role in developing a national transport cycling skills syllabus..

In effect, claiming the lead role in informing the public how to make lawful use of public roads on a bicycle.

Either they are just a sports administration body or they are not. Which is it?

Chips Lovell

Cycling Ireland put out a statement welcoming the introduction of FPNs when they were first announced.

Danbo!

A cyclist passed me this morning at a red light on college green. He was stopped you the garda perched at the bus corridor and it looked like he was getting a FCPN.

jon1981

First morning commute since the FPN came in over the weekend. A guy stopped just after the red lights at connolly station, Gardai were writing him up. I counted the number of cyclists breaking red lights today between Clontarf, fairview, quays and up to Patrick st. Counted 15, ( I needed something to take my mind off that fecking wind ) , and the funny thing is, you nearly always catch them up because either they are really bloody slow or because they get caught at a junction they can't break.

Macy0161

This whole bicycles need reg numbers thing. Seems it hasn't been working out to well in the application of motorised vehicle FPN's/ Penalty Points... http://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/vehicles-and-licences-to-be-linked-in-points-clampdown-31424966.html

rollingscone

Coming along the canal this morning some young guy on old roadbike wearing an older helmet cuts into my path as I'm in the middle lane going straight without so much as a twitch of his head to check if it was safe to do so, immediately after I'm passing him when a car ahead undertakes a right turning vehicle with a similar disregard for cycle traffic.

Same irresponsible behaviour. different conveyances.

RainyDay

Shep_Dog wrote: »

You've created a straw-man argument about ID. I stated what actual problem is.

You've stated what the theoretical problem is. There is no indication of an actual problem.

galwaycyclist

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

Cycling Ireland put out a statement welcoming the introduction of FPNs when they were first announced.

So thats it? Unqualified support from Cycling Ireland

Chips Lovell

Were you expecting them to object to FPNs or something?

Grandpa Hassan

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Walked down grafton street earlier - packed with people. Guy on a bike heads right down the middle of the street, past two guards who completely ignored him.

Ive no problem with people cycling down Grafton Street at all as long as they are not racing along making people either jump out of their way or get mashed. I honestly dont understand what the problem is (excepting the obvious one I just described) and glad those guards had some common sense about them

Pinch Flat

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

Ive no problem with people cycling down Grafton Street at all as long as they are not racing along making people either jump out of their way or get mashed. I honestly dont understand what the problem is (excepting the obvious one I just described) and glad those guards had some common sense about them

My earlier post was more of an observation on enforcement - so the guards are not going to jump down every cyclists neck. I use Dublin bikes regularly to get about in town during the day for meetings, site visits etc - one of my routes is through the pedestrianized street at the side of the St. Stephen's Green center at the Gaiety. A handy route to get to Dame Street direction. Similarly, on the way back, I'll pop around the back of McDaids, head across Grafton Street and proceed onto Dawson St.

My only concern now is that, depending on the guard, my next trip could cost me €40. It's the inconsistency that get's me - it's either illegal or it's not.


Yes, I agree - I don't get the fuss cycling in pedestrian areas and my (anecdotal) observation would be that a lot of foreigners do it here because it's not a big deal in other EU countries. Once it#'s done carefully and with consideration for pedestrians, I don't see the big deal.

km991148

Pinch Flat wrote: »

It's the inconsistency that get's me - it's either illegal or it's not.

Its not legal - the only way to be absolutely certain of no fine then you get off the bike and push it.. (at least for the next wee while!)

Pinch Flat

km991148 wrote: »

Its not legal - the only way to be absolutely certain of no fine then you get off the bike and push it.. (at least for the next wee while!)

Ah but that's my point. Guy cycles down the busiest shopping street and is ignored by the guards. Yea of course it's illegal. Bit like people who park their cars on path ways are similarly ignored although it's illegal.

It'll be interesting to see what level of pragmatism the guards use in the coming while

rubadub

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

Ive no problem with people cycling down Grafton Street at all as long as they are not racing along making people either jump out of their way or get mashed

+1, its often safer as you have only the width of the bike and peoples legs are on the pedals. A bike being wheeled along can be quite dangerous as some spiky type pedals can tear the hell out of someones leg/shin. The person wheeling a bike takes up more room.

I have only ever seen gardai sensibly going after people cycling on grafton street, which I hope continues.

The laws set out to prevent certain actions, many benign actions will fall under this wording too, which the lawmakers did not really set out to prevent. e.g. jaywalking/jayrunning across an empty road to avoid a mugger.

I saw in the UK that many people do not make way for emergency vehicles as they are worried about being fined.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/advice/why-you-could-be-fined-for-letting-an-emergency-vehicle-past/

The effect of what Bosdet calls a "tide" of fines levied on drivers who thought they were doing the right thing is reflected in new AA figures showing that one in 10 drivers would not enter a bus lane to let a fire engine, ambulance or police car through – even if the sirens are wailing and the blue lights flashing.
In London, where CCTV follows motorists’ every move, the situation is more worrying – one in six drivers say they would not give way to let an emergency vehicle through.
A fear of fines means that of 18,026 AA members polled nationally, 13 per cent would refuse to enter a yellow box junction to allow rescue services past while one in five (19 per cent) of Londoners wouldn’t.

Deedsie

Absolutely wrecks my head seeing cyclists on grafton street and shop street in Galway. The two can be absolutely thronged with pedestrians. It's not remotely suitable for a cyclist. AGS, could collect fine after fine in these two locations.

TheNap

I have to cycle on the LUAS line for 200 yards on my commute home.

Can anyone tell me if i will get fined for this ?

Qualitymark

Danbo! wrote: »

A cyclist passed me this morning at a red light on college green. He was stopped you the garda perched at the bus corridor and it looked like he was getting a FCPN.

There's been a garda there on and off for months; I've seen him stopping cars that break the lights, and stopping cyclists that break them. Proper order. It's not a safe junction to ride or drive through with the lights red.

rubadub wrote: »

I saw in the UK that many people do not make way for emergency vehicles as they are worried about being fined.

That's insane. The American practice where all vehicles go in to the side to give an ambulance a clean run is the only safe and kind way.


Someone asked about the legality of cycling along Luas tracks; Google found me this:

https://www.luas.ie/cycle-and-ride/

mcgratheoin

rubadub wrote: »

I saw in the UK that many people do not make way for emergency vehicles as they are worried about being fined.

On a similarly depressing note for anyone in an ambulance, one passed me (just by Heuston) heading in towards town on the quays one morning last week - siren blaring and lights flashing. Not sure where it was headed, but it got completely fouled up in traffic and ended up way behind me by the time i got to O'Connell Bridge. People were moving but there just wasn't space and even the bus lane was backed up.

galwaycyclist

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

Were you expecting them to object to FPNs or something?

I was wondering if they might display evidence of informed opinions on the topic of cycling.

Otherwise on what basis did they put themselves forward to act as advisers on such matters?

Chips Lovell

I'm not sure what you're driving at there, but you obviously disagree with their position.

galwaycyclist

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

I'm not sure what you're driving at there, but you obviously disagree with their position.

And what position would that be then? What would people be expected to agree or disagree with. Their unqualified support for FPNs? Does that mean Cycling Ireland also support the tweets coming from the Garda Traffic Corps suggesting they are going to do people for obstruction if they cycle two abreast? Does that mean Cycling Ireland support the position that cyclists stuck on red at unresponsive traffic lights must wait for a car to come along? etc etc?

Shep_Dog

RainyDay wrote: »

You've stated what the theoretical problem is. There is no indication of an actual problem.

Given the experience with motorist FPNs, it is reasonable to anticipate compliance problems with non residents. And given the widespread misbehaviour seen with Dublin Bike users in general, it is clear that special disciplinery measures may be warranted for them.

roverrules

rubadub wrote: »

+1, its often safer as you have only the width of the bike and peoples legs are on the pedals. A bike being wheeled along can be quite dangerous as some spiky type pedals can tear the hell out of someones leg/shin. The person wheeling a bike takes up more room.

I have only ever seen gardai sensibly going after people cycling on grafton street, which I hope continues.

The laws set out to prevent certain actions, many benign actions will fall under this wording too, which the lawmakers did not really set out to prevent. e.g. jaywalking/jayrunning across an empty road to avoid a mugger.

I saw in the UK that many people do not make way for emergency vehicles as they are worried about being fined.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/advice/why-you-could-be-fined-for-letting-an-emergency-vehicle-past/

You'd think the ES would be using the bus lane rather than the traffic lane

Danbo!

Qualitymark wrote: »

There's been a garda there on and off for months; I've seen him stopping cars that break the lights, and stopping cyclists that break them. Proper order. It's not a safe junction to ride or drive through with the lights red.]

They are there every morning to enforce the bus corridor, getting private cars to turn around as they are not allowed to continue around to Westmoreland Street at certain times.

Anyway, light em up boys..

<snip>

jon1981

i saw a girl being written up on the quays, up past the laughter lounge. She was on the footpath with the bike on the ground while the Gardai wrote the fine. It seemed as though she was cycling on the path as she was not near any lights.

I thought the cycling on the path fine was not brought in yet?

Also I was cycling near a guy who decided to break the red light twice ( caught him up each time), I said it passing that I saw a couple of guys get fined already, told me to f**k off ... serves me right I guess! :pac::pac:

Chips Lovell

galwaycyclist wrote: »

does that mean Cycling Ireland also support the tweets coming from the Garda Traffic Corps suggesting they are going to do people for obstruction if they cycle two abreast? Does that mean Cycling Ireland support the position that cyclists stuck on red at unresponsive traffic lights must wait for a car to come along? etc etc?

I'd assume it doesn't. Wouldn't you?

bazermc

So is cycling through grand canal dock area now liable to a FPN. You know along by the bord gas theatre and fresh.

It is a pedestrian area, so I would have thought technically no. If so the Garda could have cleared up there this evening and cleared the national debt.

Deedsie

jon1981 wrote: »

i saw a girl being written up on the quays, up past the laughter lounge. She was on the footpath with the bike on the ground while the Gardai wrote the fine. It seemed as though she was cycling on the path as she was not near any lights.

I thought the cycling on the path fine was not brought in yet?

Also I was cycling near a guy who decided to break the red light twice ( caught him up each time), I said it passing that I saw a couple of guys get fined already, told me to f**k off ... serves me right I guess! :pac::pac:

Someone who runs the lights like that more than likely couldn't give a damn what anyone else thinks. Hopefully he will get caught and fined repeatedly until he cops on.

There was a massive increase in the amount of cyclists queueing up at the lights all along the N11 this evening. It was actually a little annoying :-) get out of my way slowmo's

Maximus Alexander

bazermc wrote: »

So is cycling through grand canal dock area now liable to a FPN. You know along by the bord gas theatre and fresh.

It is a pedestrian area, so I would have thought technically no. If so the Garda could have cleared up there this evening and cleared the national debt.

If cycling is not allowed on Grand Canal Quay then their choice to position cyclist traffic lights and a Dublin Bikes station on the Pierce Street side is just terrible, terrible planning.

RainyDay

Shep_Dog wrote: »

Given the experience with motorist FPNs, it is reasonable to anticipate compliance problems with non residents. And given the widespread misbehaviour seen with Dublin Bike users in general, it is clear that special disciplinery measures may be warranted for them.

Here's a mad idea? Instead of focusing attention of legislators and operators on 'anticipated' theoretical problems, how about focusing their attention on the very real problems that result in 4 or 5 people being killed each week on the roads and the maiming of thousands of others?

I could come up with a hundred anticipated theoretical problems with traffic and other laws that would have a bigger impact and better payback that new legislation around Dublin Bike owners.

bazermc

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

If cycling is not allowed on Grand Canal Quay then their choice to position cyclist traffic lights and a Dublin Bikes station on the Pierce Street side is just terrible, terrible planning.

Extra weight training. Cycle and then pick up your bike and carry it to the station

galwaycyclist

jon1981 wrote: »

i saw a girl being written up on the quays, up past the laughter lounge. She was on the footpath with the bike on the ground while the Gardai wrote the fine. It seemed as though she was cycling on the path as she was not near any lights.

I thought the cycling on the path fine was not brought in yet?

Even if the FPN for footpath cycling is not in yet, you can still be summonsed to face the charge in court, that hasn't gone away.

galwaycyclist

Shep_Dog wrote: »

Given the experience with motorist FPNs, it is reasonable to anticipate compliance problems with non residents. And given the widespread misbehaviour seen with Dublin Bike users in general, it is clear that special disciplinery measures may be warranted for them.

Can you back that up with any injury figures?

HivemindXX

The FPNs are only four days in and it already happened. I got honked at by a motorist while stopped at the red light.

Possible explanatations: he only sees lights that suit him, he doesn't know how filter arrows work, his desire for cyclists to obey lights depends mostly on how convenient for him it is.

Luckily the crisis was averted by him changing lanes and passing me on the inside like he should have done in the first place.

With regard to Grand Canal Square, whatever about putting the Dublin Bike stand there, putting the Shared Use sign is the main culprit as far as creating the impression it is a shared use area as far as I'm concerned.
https://goo.gl/maps/ZrJqM

galwaycyclist

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

I'd assume it doesn't. Wouldn't you?

He who stays silent is taken to agree

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qui_tacet_consentire_videtur#qui_tacet_consentire_videtur

Shep_Dog

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Can you back that up with any injury figures?

Since when do good manners and civil behaviour have to be justified by injury statistics?

snailsong

Danbo! wrote: »

They are there every morning to enforce the bus corridor, getting private cars to turn around as they are not allowed to continue around to Westmoreland Street at certain times.

Anyway, light em up boys..

I see two people breaking the law in the first picture, with equal menace to public safety. It seems only one of them was booked....

jon1981

snailsong wrote: »

I see two people breaking the law in the first picture, with equal menace to public safety. It seems only one of them was booked....

Does the woman not have the green light if the cars have the red?!

jon1981

In Fairvew this evening , two gardai in a car driving slowly by and stared at a cyclist stopped just past the red light, they seemed confused as to whether or not he had broken the light.. they decided to move on after about 10 seconds of observation... Probably waiting for him to cycle and then pounce.

bazermc

snailsong wrote: »

I see two people breaking the law in the first picture, with equal menace to public safety. It seems only one of them was booked....

Illegal pink jacket?

RobertFoster

jon1981 wrote: »

Does the woman not have the green light if the cars have the red?!

The guy in the centre of the picture is jaywalking within 15m of a pedestrian crossing.

jon1981

RobertFoster wrote: »

The guy in the centre of the picture is jaywalking within 15m of a pedestrian crossing.

Is that illegal?

Edit: it seems we do have a law that states within 50m. Though not enforced.