Now Ye're Talking - to an Insurance Underwriter

Liam McPoyle

shedweller wrote: »

My wife worked with an aussie girl a while back (here in ireland)and the irish insurance company loaded her premium because she had a car stereo stolen from when she was back in australia a few years before. They wouldnt accept her ncb from australia either!
Whats the reason for this? It smacks of having your cake and eating it!

In general insurance companies will not accept a bonus from outside the EU - US, Canada, Oz etc, they will also rate a non EU licence holder as a provisional licence holder and rate them accordingly.

Don't have any idea why tbh, its been like that for as long as Ive been in the industry and I dont see it changing anytime soon.

It doesnt make any sense to me why a bonus from another country would not be accepted, particularly if the country in question drive on the right side of the road.

Liam McPoyle

gonzo.phd wrote: »

I hear conflicting reports about insurers paying out for own damage claims by an unaccompanied learner driver, in your experience is an insurer likely to pay out?

Absolutely and Id be very surprised if a company declined a claim on this basis. The driver not been accompanied is not an issue for the insurer, it is a legal issue. Once the drivers leaner permit is valid and they are named on the policy the insurer should be paying out and I would strongly urge anyone that has had a claim declined for the above reasons to take it further.

Liam McPoyle

Vito Andolini wrote: »

I've another one! A couple of years ago I got a quote on insurance on a car, when I rang back to go ahead with the policy I asked how much to put my wife on the policy the quote came down in price, I didn't ask why but wondered ever since.

This is a throw back to many years ago where the theory was if someone was married then they were less likely to be speeding, would be more cautious etc as they would have someone in the car with them alot of the time.

Mad stuff altogether!!

:pac:

Liam McPoyle

BlatentCheek wrote: »

In motor insurance if someone had an accident as a named driver on another policy, for which the policyholder claimed, but took the claims question on the proposal form literally and answered that they have not made any claims would this affect cover?

Yes, its non disclosure.

The question asked should be "have you had any accidents or claims in the last 5 years", it doesn't say "have you had any claims on your own insurance in the last 5 years", whether it was on someone elses policy is moot, any accidents, claims, incidents or convictions should be declared at quotation stage.

Not doing this leaves you open to a world of trouble.

swht

Got another one, would you recommend the job to others?

Welruc

I hear a lot of people saying that if your not covered in the event of an accident if your tax or nct has expired. Any truth in this?

Liam McPoyle

gonzo.phd wrote: »

Got another one, would you recommend the job to others?

I certainly would not have any hesitation in recommending insurance as a good career choice. There are a wealth of different avenues from sales, to claims handling, underwriting, administrative, loss assessing etc. Its an industry that will always have work in and that is more or less recession proof as insurance will always be needed.

Liam McPoyle

deuceswild wrote: »

I hear a lot of people saying that if your not covered in the event of an accident if your tax or nct has expired. Any truth in this?

Expired tax would be a non issue.

Expired NCT on the other hand could be problematic.

For insurance to be valid part of the requirement of the policy is that the vehicle is road worthy and that responsibility lies with the insured. If there is no NCT in place that implies the vehicle isnt road worthy and could therefore negate the insurance in the event of a claim.

Its not a clear cut rule that if the NCT is invalid then insurance is void, it is on a case by case basis but it could cause problems for sure.

Welruc

Business Cat wrote: »

Expired tax would be a non issue.

Expired NCT on the other hand could be problematic.

For insurance to be valid part of the requirement of the policy is that the vehicle is road worthy and that responsibility lies with the insured. If there is no NCT in place that implies the vehicle isnt road worthy and could therefore negate the insurance in the event of a claim.

Its not a clear cut rule that if the NCT is invalid then insurance is void, it is on a case by case basis but it could cause problems for sure.

Thanks for that, where did you get your qualifications? Did you go to college get a degree or was it an apprenticeship type on the job.

Pablod

Hi Business Cat, great thread and great answers.

Question re insurance & driving experience:
Would you know why insurance companies do not accept previous driving experience if it was from a company fleet policy?

I've been on a company open fleet insurance policy for the last 9 years (clean license - no accidents or claims over that 9 years etc.)

Haven't had insurance in my own name in over 10 years
Last Year I had to get private car insurance - and I was treated as a 1st time insured driver with no NCB or Named Driving Experience
I have 9 years claims free and obtained proof of this from my employers insurance but this did not suffice and this increased the premium by approx €250-€300

It is just each insurance company with their own policy on this or a standard across all insurance companies?

Cheers,
Pablod

TouchingVirus

You mentioned changing the springs was something you should inform the insurer about :eek: I best get on that tomorrow then, I put a set of them on over a year ago because they were cheaper than a single OEM spring after an NCT fail. Never would have considered it as something I needed to tell the insurer about.

Why is it so difficult to get home contents insurance in a rented property if you're not living with family? I rent with friends for over 3 years now. I've got a considerable amount of content I wouldn't like to lose in the event of a burglary but there is just one insurer I've found willing to take me on (Liberty) and the premiums are hefty.

A few years ago I got a significantly better quote from a broker on an Axa policy than with Axa Direct. It was the exact same everything. Axa Direct didn't match and I swapped. I can't fathom the reasons for this, can you?

My car was rear-ended last August, I wasn't at fault. There were no personal injuries. The car value is €8,000 though there aren't many of them in the country to get as a replacement, especially not a convertible like mine. The repairer told me if my car was a few years newer they would recommend a whole new boot floor such was the damage. Unfortunately that would have bumped the repair costs to near €6,000. I was terrified the third party insurance company would write the car off and give me the value. What are the rules around this?

moleyv

Great thread and thank you for your time.

I have a general question. Do you have some examples of 'average' cars that are considered high risk that we might find surprising.

Liam McPoyle

deuceswild wrote: »

Thanks for that, where did you get your qualifications? Did you go to college get a degree or was it an apprenticeship type on the job.

The insurance qualification was done through the Insurance Institute of Ireland, there are 6 separate exams to gain the Certified Insurance Practitioner designation. I know UL are now offering a 3 year degree in insurance if people wanted to go down the full time route but tbh, on the job training is better than any course.

To do the CIP exams there are no minimum requirements, anyone who wants to sit the exams can pay for them (about €260 a pop) themselves.

Liam McPoyle

Pablod wrote: »

Hi Business Cat, great thread and great answers.

Question re insurance & driving experience:
Would you know why insurance companies do not accept previous driving experience if it was from a company fleet policy?

I've been on a company open fleet insurance policy for the last 9 years (clean license - no accidents or claims over that 9 years etc.)

Haven't had insurance in my own name in over 10 years
Last Year I had to get private car insurance - and I was treated as a 1st time insured driver with no NCB or Named Driving Experience
I have 9 years claims free and obtained proof of this from my employers insurance but this did not suffice and this increased the premium by approx €250-€300

It is just each insurance company with their own policy on this or a standard across all insurance companies?

Cheers,
Pablod

It is down to company discretion.

Can I ask, did you buy your policy through a brokers (Chill, AA etc) or directly from the insurer?

Most insurance companies that Ive dealt with would allow some level of introductory bonus for someone coming off a fleet policy once the fleet was a private motor or light commercial fleet, if it was driving an artic then they wouldn't be interested.

If you have a non standard bonus ie named driving experience or driving on a company policy rather than a bonus in your own name, Id recommend people go straight to insurers rather than dealing with intermediaries, at least you can give the full details from the get go and they can refer it to their own underwriters there and then.

brightspark

Why is insurance for someone who is unemployed significantly higher than when employed?

Last year I was unemployed and the renewal quote this year was €400, until I informed them I was now working and it dropped to about €330, even my high milage ~35,000km, only brought it up another €40.

Surely I'm more likely to have an accident travelling 35,000km, than when I was sitting at home most of the time, probably doing less than 100km a week!

Pablod

Business Cat wrote: »

It is down to company discretion.

Can I ask, did you buy your policy through a brokers (Chill, AA etc) or directly from the insurer?

Most insurance companies that Ive dealt with would allow some level of introductory bonus for someone coming off a fleet policy once the fleet was a private motor or light commercial fleet, if it was driving an artic then they wouldn't be interested.

If you have a non standard bonus ie named driving experience or driving on a company policy rather than a bonus in your own name, Id recommend people go straight to insurers rather than dealing with intermediaries, at least you can give the full details from the get go and they can refer it to their own underwriters there and then.

Cheers for that.
Yes it was through a broker AA
It wasn't a named driving policy so no bonus in my own name but driving on an open company policy and yes it was small private fleet
Thanks again for the answers, will know better for next time

Liam McPoyle

TouchingVirus wrote: »

You mentioned changing the springs was something you should inform the insurer about :eek: I best get on that tomorrow then, I put a set of them on over a year ago because they were cheaper than a single OEM spring after an NCT fail. Never would have considered it as something I needed to tell the insurer about.

Something like the above shouldnt be an issue for your insurer tbh, they may request an engineers report to verify everything was fitted correctly but Id be surprised if there was a problem. It is something that its no harm to make them aware of, full disclosure and all that.

TouchingVirus wrote: »

Why is it so difficult to get home contents insurance in a rented property if you're not living with family? I rent with friends for over 3 years now. I've got a considerable amount of content I wouldn't like to lose in the event of a burglary but there is just one insurer I've found willing to take me on (Liberty) and the premiums are hefty.

The issue with insuring contents where a group of individuals is concerned is that the potential for claims (in the eyes of the insurer) is much greater than if it was a family living together. 3 or 4 tenants means 3 or 4 sets of keys, potentially 3 or 4 different sets of friends & family members that have access to the house, potentially anyone can move into the house if its rented by individuals and as a result the potential exposure to the insurer is trebled or quadrupled.

TouchingVirus wrote: »

A few years ago I got a significantly better quote from a broker on an Axa policy than with Axa Direct. It was the exact same everything. Axa Direct didn't match and I swapped. I can't fathom the reasons for this, can you?

Ive seen this time and time again. Insurers have their own "walk away" premium but the broker quotes the company at a much cheaper rate. Brokers will have different discounts agreed with the insurer that the insurer may not apply to their own direct customers.

It makes no sense whatsoever and I believe a non compete clause should be in operation ie a broker cannot quote an individual and offer them terms with the company they are currently with. Cant see it ever happening though, too difficult to keep track of.

TouchingVirus wrote: »

My car was rear-ended last August, I wasn't at fault. There were no personal injuries. The car value is €8,000 though there aren't many of them in the country to get as a replacement, especially not a convertible like mine. The repairer told me if my car was a few years newer they would recommend a whole new boot floor such was the damage. Unfortunately that would have bumped the repair costs to near €6,000. I was terrified the third party insurance company would write the car off and give me the value. What are the rules around this?

If a car is deemed beyond economic repair then the insurance company is within their rights to pay the cost of replacement then retain the damaged vehicle for salvage.

In alot of cases though the insurance company will pay for the car thats beyond economic repair then the owner of the car can buy back the remains/salvage at an agreed fee if they wish.

Liam McPoyle

moleyv wrote: »

Great thread and thank you for your time.

I have a general question. Do you have some examples of 'average' cars that are considered high risk that we might find surprising.

The big one's thats currently on the naughty list would be late 90's / early 00's VW Passats & Bora's.

The new model Mini's are also another one that insurers have a problem with and that are rated quite highly.

Liam McPoyle

brightspark wrote: »

Why is insurance for someone who is unemployed significantly higher than when employed?

Last year I was unemployed and the renewal quote this year was €400, until I informed them I was now working and it dropped to about €330, even my high milage ~35,000km, only brought it up another €40.

Surely I'm more likely to have an accident travelling 35,000km, than when I was sitting at home most of the time, probably doing less than 100km a week!

I believe the logic behind charging higher for unemployed drivers is that if people aren't working, money could be tight, therefore the argument is that they are more likely to engineer a claim themselves to try and make a few quid.

Not very nice but claims experience has shown a direct correlation between unemployment and claims Im afraid.

Lismeel

Is it difficult to become an insurance broker? Do you think its a viable profession given a lot of the bigger insurers are selling direct to the market now? Thanks for any insight.

Liam McPoyle

Lismeel wrote: »

Is it difficult to become an insurance broker? Do you think its a viable profession given a lot of the bigger insurers are selling direct to the market now? Thanks for any insight.

If you mean is it difficult to get a job in a brokers, then not particularly, at least not in personal lines, commercial lines would require some level of experience though. The likes of the AA and Chill are constantly looking for new staff.

Brokers are actually becoming more popular as it takes alot of hassle out of buying insurance for people that may not be too au fait with the jargon.

It is absolutely a viable profession but its one of those jobs that if you dont like hard selling then you wont like it.

martigk

I have a question about pet insurance, I have held pet insurance on my Labradors for over eleven years, one lab died aged 7.5 then put puppy on policy for last four years, this year my policy was loaded by 50% without the loading being mentioned on the renewal documents - just said policy price plus gov levy of €19 total €407 last year it was €238. They went back three and a half years & said it was frequency of claims..... Told my vet who said I am claiming for my dogs ears which is one of the cheapest illness to treat - how can I fight this loading ?

Kenjataimu

I've heard that you will get more favourable quotes if ringing towards the end of the month as there is pressure to meet targets by then.

Is this true or was someone talking bull? :pac:

obezyana

So my question is;

Why is there no insurance company in Ireland offering multi car insurance on a single policy?

Hi Business Cat, your responses are very informative so I hate to dispute a point you made but regarding "The non life insurance (personal and commercial lines) market in Ireland in 2012 had a loss ratio of 107%".

According to Insurance Ireland's fact file for 2012 net written premiums (premium less cost of sale incl. commission) were 1980m with net claims of 1400m. Despite this the industry had an underwriting loss of 118m. So I guess I have one question and one point.

[Question] where did the 698m (1980+118-1400) go ? is it expenses ? increase in reserves ? what ?

and [Point] Before we go all boo hoo for the poor insurance industry we should tell the boardies that it made a tidy 259m of investment income in 2012 on premium money received and invested before claims are paid.

Pythia

As a qualified commercial lines pricing actuary I can help on the point above. A loss ratio is a good acid test however I think the OP is confusing this with Combined Ratio which is the measure of overall profitability.

There are many components other than losses that lead to whether a company made a profit or not.

Expenses
Reinsurance costs
Tax
Reserve adjustments (basically money needed now for unexpected claims from older years)
Contingency reserves (money put aside for things like earthquakes, terrorist attacks etc)
Investment returns (this is obvious a gain, not a cost)

Expenses can be absolutely gigantic - as low as 10% of premium or as high as 50% of premium. Salaries, rent, costs of doing business etc plus commissions can be very large too (yes, your figures are net of commission though).

Yes, you are right, investment income is not insubstantial however this is very much the norm and a reduction in price to account for this is built in. Many claims are not paid for years and investing the money helps reduce the net cost of these claims. In fact allowing for positive investment income is a key part in pricing any kind of liability insurance.

I could make a lot of points on other issues raised here from an actuarial point of view but I think the OP is doing a very good job!

Liam McPoyle

martigk wrote: »

I have a question about pet insurance, I have held pet insurance on my Labradors for over eleven years, one lab died aged 7.5 then put puppy on policy for last four years, this year my policy was loaded by 50% without the loading being mentioned on the renewal documents - just said policy price plus gov levy of €19 total €407 last year it was €238. They went back three and a half years & said it was frequency of claims..... Told my vet who said I am claiming for my dogs ears which is one of the cheapest illness to treat - how can I fight this loading ?

I dont know anything about pet insurance tbh.

It seems you are claiming recently for the dogs ears and you claimed a coupled of years ago for the dogs death, yes?

I presume pet insurance works the same as other insurance in that its the 5 year claims experience that is taken into account.

2 claims in 5 years being loaded is pretty common tbh, certainly in general insurance.

Not alot you can do I think.

Liam McPoyle

Proco Jr. wrote: »

I've heard that you will get more favourable quotes if ringing towards the end of the month as there is pressure to meet targets by then.

Is this true or was someone talking bull? :pac:

Ha ha, I think thats wishful thinking mate!

One thing I will say though, if dealing with a broker, there will always be a broker fee attached, up to €50 on alot of motor policies. If getting a quote through the broker ask for the premium breakdown and then tell them you arent interested in paying the broker fee. In most cases they will remove it, or at least reduce it, saving you a few quid.

Liam McPoyle

obezyana wrote: »

So my question is;

Why is there no insurance company in Ireland offering multi car insurance on a single policy?

Honestly?

I dont know.



My guess would be too much potential exposure coupled with relatively small premium return. Lack of demand would also be a factor I think.

Liam McPoyle

Deleted User wrote: »

Hi Business Cat, your responses are very informative so I hate to dispute a point you made but regarding "The non life insurance (personal and commercial lines) market in Ireland in 2012 had a loss ratio of 107%".

According to Insurance Ireland's fact file for 2012 net written premiums (premium less cost of sale incl. commission) were 1980m with net claims of 1400m. Despite this the industry had an underwriting loss of 118m. So I guess I have one question and one point.

[Question] where did the 698m (1980+118-1400) go ? is it expenses ? increase in reserves ? what ?

At a guess I would think it would be down to an increase in reserve requirements, operational costs, training and development of staff, systemic updates etc.

Deleted User wrote: »

and [Point] Before we go all boo hoo for the poor insurance industry we should tell the boardies that it made a tidy 259m of investment income in 2012 on premium money received and invested before claims are paid.

Breaking news just in, company tries to make money!!!!

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:


Did you just post here in an effort to derail the thread because of a gripe you have with the insurance industry?

Every company needs to make money in order to survive in the long term, to suggest insurance companies should be taken to task because they do the same is pretty lame tbh.

These companies have investors, share holders etc, alot of them also have other interests too so of course they are going to try and maximize what they can make.