Now Ye're Talking - to an Insurance Underwriter

mamma2b

What is considered a reasonable timeframe to get a hire car organised when someone has hit your car making it undriveable? im now waiting 25 days for a hire car a lady hit me on the 18th, her insurance is a company policy so when you ring the irish number your put through to a uk crowd. im sick of it had no car all over xmas and still her insurance is messing me around

Zebrano

Business Cat wrote: »

Most occupations are absolutely fine tbh.

Its the ones with large potential exposure that are the issue.

An occupation like a sales rep means they are going to be clocking up alot of miles, could be carrying valuable stock/samples etc, danger of driver fatigue etc mean it is a risky occupation for a company to cover.

Likewise for motor trade related occupations - mechanics, tyre fitters, panel beaters etc. Most insurers will give driving of other cars as standard on their policy. If someone is say a mechanic, they could be potentially driving 10 different cars a day. As a risk that is impossible to quantify for a private motor insurer so they will usually shy away from motor trade related risks.

Likewise for taxi/hackney drivers. Massive potential exposure.

As I said though, most occupations are a non issue.

so for people in the motor trade they remove the driving other cars. Why is it still more expensive.

DANNY2014

Business Cat wrote: »

People that used to come on the phone to me ranting and raving would get nowhere, even if I had discount to give, I wouldn't give it if they were been a bolox.

You have to remember, the person you get speaking to has likely had hundreds of calls over the previous couple of days giving out to them about price. If you are nice and speak to them in a respectful way then invariably they will go out of their way to help you out if they can.

Thanks thats good to know... Mines out end of month so I've to be nice now and go in all chirpy...ha...

Gloomtastic!

What's your opinion on the Personal Injuries Board?

Liam McPoyle

Miighty wrote: »

How do insurance companies deal with car modifications such as remapping. Should I expect to see my insurance skyrocket if I remapped my car?

What happens in the case of major undeclared modding and claims?

Most insurers will decline to quote cars that have been heavily modded, for new business. For existing customers that do stuff to their car Id expect a significant loading at a minimum. Depending on exactly what was done they could decline to quote altogether.

A claim involving a car that did not declare mechanical modifications when the policy was been purchased has a very real chance of been declined.

Anything that alters the cars performance/mechanical function needs to be declared, it really is that simple.

Liam McPoyle

Falcon L wrote: »

I was with a very reconisable comedian once who, when hiring a car, answered 'plasterer' as occupation. Show biz is heavily loaded it seems. Well, he was a plasterer by trade in his old life

Show biz personalities and professional sports people are two categories of people that tend to have trouble with getting insurance.

Its a combination of them potentially being at alot of parties, around alcohol and the like and potentially been targeted by people jealous of their success.

Liam McPoyle

mamma2b wrote: »

What is considered a reasonable timeframe to get a hire car organised when someone has hit your car making it undriveable? im now waiting 25 days for a hire car a lady hit me on the 18th, her insurance is a company policy so when you ring the irish number your put through to a uk crowd. im sick of it had no car all over xmas and still her insurance is messing me around

Any more than 24 hours I would be going bananas tbh.

If I were you I would contacting a car hire company, arranging it yourself then billing her insurer. Maybe try ringing your own insurer and fill them in, they may be able to arrange one for you and they will then seek recovery from the other company.

dmrules

Business Cat wrote: »

Zurich in general would be fairly consistent with their pricing, good company and a good policy tbh.

Just got a renewal letter from them...last year 435 now they want 600...never had a claim in my 23 years driving... not so good
went with 123.ie their quote 372!!! happy days

Liam McPoyle

Zebrano wrote: »

so for people in the motor trade they remove the driving other cars. Why is it still more expensive.

That would be the logical answer, wouldn't it!

Unfortunately for all the actuarial data, risk assessment etc, sometimes logic goes out the window.

My best guess is that those occupations have a poor claims history so its easier to exclude them altogether or charge them whopper premiums.

mirrorwall14

What's the money like in underwriting?

mamma2b

Ive tried that but i only have third party myself so my insurers will do nothing for me. i have have murder with her insurers on several occasions. my mechanic who has my car is under the impression that i need approval for the hire car, and with xmas and new year its been such a mess the company is a third party uk company that im put through to when i ring the irish number. now they are not taking calls or answering emails. legally speaking where do i stand

Liam McPoyle

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

What's your opinion on the Personal Injuries Board?

While its good for people that have genuinely suffered a wrong, its also left the door wide open for anyone with even the slightest injury to get a nice fat cheque for their troubles.

When the claims estimates show potential payouts for a minor wrist injury of up to €26k, is it any feckin wonder.

:rolleyes:

Its in theory a good idea but is so inherently flawed its beyond a joke.

Liam McPoyle

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

What's the money like in underwriting?

For senior technical underwriters the salaries can be in excess of €80,000.

Im not quite at that level yet though Im afraid.

:pac:

Liam McPoyle

dmrules wrote: »

Just got a renewal letter from them...last year 435 now they want 600...never had a claim in my 23 years driving... not so good
went with 123.ie their quote 372!!! happy days

123 have a higher excess than Zurich and last I heard they have restrictions on their breakdown assist. Plus they charge administrative fees for everything, and I mean everything.

€228 is a very big gap though.

What ever works best for you tbh!

mirrorwall14

Business Cat wrote: »

For senior technical underwriters the salaries can be in excess of €80,000.

Im not quite at that level yet though Im afraid.

:pac:

lol thanks. I'm happy in teaching at the moment but under no illusions that a career change may be needed in the distant future due to burn out levels in teaching. Insurance always fascinated me since my stint in call centre customer service with it

Gloomtastic!

Business Cat wrote: »

While its good for people that have genuinely suffered a wrong, its also left the door wide open for anyone with even the slightest injury to get a nice fat cheque for their troubles.

When the claims estimates show potential payouts for a minor wrist injury of up to €26k, is it any feckin wonder.

:rolleyes:

Its in theory a good idea but is so inherently flawed its beyond a joke.

You're not wrong! So why haven't the insurance industry done anything about it?

Liam McPoyle

mamma2b wrote: »

Ive tried that but i only have third party myself so my insurers will do nothing for me. i have have murder with her insurers on several occasions. my mechanic who has my car is under the impression that i need approval for the hire car, and with xmas and new year its been such a mess the company is a third party uk company that im put through to when i ring the irish number. now they are not taking calls or answering emails. legally speaking where do i stand

Ah bugger, I see.

I cannot give legal advice (as Im not a lawyer and Im not going to potentially expose myself or Boards).

Speaking strictly from an insurance point of view the only advice I can give is to hire a car and foot the bill yourself until the insurance company gets the finger out. If this isnt an option then there is nothing you can do Im afraid.

Your mechanic does'nt sound too sympathetic either. Would you be able to borrow a friend or family members car and temporarily transfer your insurance onto it?

Liam McPoyle

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

lol thanks. I'm happy in teaching at the moment but under no illusions that a career change may be needed in the distant future due to burn out levels in teaching. Insurance always fascinated me since my stint in call centre customer service with it

Hah, myself and my oh were talking over the Christmas and we were both in agreement that if we could go back and do the leaving again, we would both have become teachers!

:pac:

Liam McPoyle

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

You're not wrong! So why haven't the insurance industry done anything about it?

What can they do?

If they rally against it they would be vilified by the public and the media for not caring about the general populace and only worrying about their own bottom line.

Its a monster that will continue to grow I fear.

Yawns

Car was recently stolen and no luck in finding it and not holding out hope at this stage, tho it still might turn up. Should I expect the insurance company to offer a much lower amount than book value at first and if they do, if I refuse would they definitely come back with a closer amount.

Would I need to email or post them screenshots of similar cars for sale with similar mileage or will they come back with a higher offer.

mamma2b

yes sorry i know that! just never been put in this situation before, just feel like im only asking for what i should be entitled to, not out to screw an insurance company like many others ive heard of, im getting panicky about it im a mature student nurse and have my exams next wk so really need the car for then. it was bad enough not being able to go anywhere over xmas ive 3 kids so you can imagine the hassle. study stress, and car insurance hassle doesnt mix well!! ps im afraid if i get the hire car myself they wont honour it because they didnt approve it

Thespoofer

Hi, I'm involved in roofing for almost 25 years both working as an employee and on my own for a number of years, never had an incident but never had my own insurance ( when worked for myself ) either.

My plan is to put an truck mounted hoist ( can reach to about 18 Mtrs in height ) on the road specifically for the purpose of roofing, operated by myself only, no employees and to have roofing contractors insurance, going by the book so to speak.

Is there many insurers who would underwrite such a policy and if so any chance you could forward their details ?

Thanks

Gloomtastic!

Business Cat wrote: »

What can they do?

If they rally against it they would be vilified by the public and the media for not caring about the general populace and only worrying about their own bottom line.

Its a monster that will continue to grow I fear.

An industry as mean and ruthless as the insurance business can't take on, and defeat, a government quango? Show the public the evidence and blame them for the higher premiums. Anything to do with government/quango is easy game at the moment.

Liam McPoyle

Yawns wrote: »

Car was recently stolen and no luck in finding it and not holding out hope at this stage, tho it still might turn up. Should I expect the insurance company to offer a much lower amount than book value at first and if they do, if I refuse would they definitely come back with a closer amount.

Would I need to email or post them screenshots of similar cars for sale with similar mileage or will they come back with a higher offer.

Insurers wont low ball you when offering to compensate you, that would be morally wrong and would leave them open to a serious probing from the regulatory authorities if they were found to be practicing this. They will offer what they feel is a fair price/value for the vehicle as it was.

If you aren't happy with their offer you absolutely have the right to appeal and to provide any information you think shows their valuation is wrong.

Liam McPoyle

mamma2b wrote: »

yes sorry i know that! just never been put in this situation before, just feel like im only asking for what i should be entitled to, not out to screw an insurance company like many others ive heard of, im getting panicky about it im a mature student nurse and have my exams next wk so really need the car for then. it was bad enough not being able to go anywhere over xmas ive 3 kids so you can imagine the hassle. study stress, and car insurance hassle doesnt mix well!! ps im afraid if i get the hire car myself they wont honour it because they didnt approve it

My heart goes out to you, it really does. Awful situation you are in and pretty disgusting carry on from the other company.

It could be worth your while to contact the financial services ombudsman in the morning, they may be able to assist.

I hope you get sorted soon.

mamma2b

Thankyou

Poochie05

Thanks for your answers, really interesting thread!
I have a question about using your personal car for limited business purposes.

Every time my insurance is up for renewal I go through the same rigmarole having to get the right insurance as sometimes the sales reps have different views on limited business use and other types of business use.

I travel to meetings or conferences off site for work and get the equivalent of civil service mileage rates to cover this. I'm not a sales rep and don't carry goods, samples or equipment, apart from a laptop, so my understanding is that I need to be covered for limited business use. I may also car pool with colleagues if we are all going to the same meeting but was told by one insurer that limited business use does not allow you to carry passengers, so I would need Class 2 business cover. Other companies laugh when I tell them I have been told this and that Class 2 business cover is way over the top for the type of business travel I do.

For some companies it is straightforward you just get limited business cover and you're sorted but it means if you shop around you end up having the same conversation every year. It seems it is called different things in different companies, I.e. Class 1B, Class 2, etc.
I understand different policies may cover different things, can you offer clarity on what I should be asking for?

Liam McPoyle

Thespoofer wrote: »

Hi, I'm involved in roofing for almost 25 years both working as an employee and on my own for a number of years, never had an incident but never had my own insurance ( when worked for myself ) either.

My plan is to put an truck mounted hoist ( can reach to about 18 Mtrs in height ) on the road specifically for the purpose of roofing, operated by myself only, no employees and to have roofing contractors insurance, going by the book so to speak.

Is there many insurers who would underwrite such a policy and if so any chance you could forward their details ?

Thanks

Id reckon your best bet would be to go to a decent brokers mate. A company like Arachas would be a good shout, they have offices in Dublin, Cork and Waterford and have a number of trademens policy options.

H3llR4iser

Business Cat wrote: »

...
Im not sure what you mean by the information been secreted, its available on every insurance website there is in the form of the online questionnaire you fill out when getting a quote, thats the risk assessment.

Thank Business Cat, what I meant is more or less this: is it possible to see the actual data that says, for example, that men crash (or better, cost more in claims) than women, that one particular car is more often involved in accidents than another one and so on. What I mean is bare, sheer number sheets: "BMW 320i - 2000 claims; Ford Focus 1.4 - 1200 claims" and so on.

So if a 19 years old is quoted 3000 Euro to insure his 900cc Micra, and is told "well kid, nothing I can do - 19 years olds cause a lot of claims", it would be nice to show data to back it up.

Otherwise, whatever the "quote systems" produce will always, invariably, feel artificial, sort of "made up" if I may; It's a lack of transparency I frankly find very unsettling - and it's certainly not limited to Ireland.

I'm asking because recently there was a scandal in Italy, where residents of some cities pay more based on the "reputation" the area has for accidents and frauds; While a driver living in Naples pays three times the premium of one living in Milan (similar sized and populated cities), it has emerged from Police reports that, on average, the former only produces about half of the claims of the latter, while insurance companies keep insisting it's the other way around - with no facts to back them up. Given that insurers down there use the exact same mantras as Irish ones ("risk category", "data proves it"), one has to wonder if something bearing any similarity can be happening here.

Business Cat wrote: »

Honestly, I dont know. Id be of the opinion that a full licence is a full licence, regardless of where it was issued from. You could argue the case for drivers coming from countries that drive on the left hand side of the road getting loaded but for right hand drivers, its pretty unfair imo.

Fact is, if you switch your license for an Irish document you pay as much as somebody that got the license here, which is utter nonsense to me and invalidates the "you learnt driving on the left!" argument. It has to be said not all insurers apply the hike - I am with AXA and they are fine with my IT license.

In all honesty, would you say some companies adopted the "overcharge EU drivers" trick after the EU ruling that prevented them from charging men outrageously for insurance? Because it's something I started noticing just after the rule came into fruition. I don't expect you to really answer this, just chancing my arm

Business Cat wrote: »

I don't deal with the day to day claims side of the business, thats a totally different section to myself but I can honestly say Ive never encountered such a scenario. Im sure it does happen, particularly with young drivers but I reckon it would be very much in the minority.

I just asked because it's something I used to hear about very often in Italy, especially in the case of women: their father or spouse would figure as the driver, why I don't know. Just wondered if it happened here as well.

Finally, many thanks again for the insider viewpoint and the superhuman patience answering the most disparate questions here!

Liam McPoyle

Poochie05 wrote: »

Thanks for your answers, really interesting thread!
I have a question about using your personal car for limited business purposes.

Every time my insurance is up for renewal I go through the same rigmarole having to get the right insurance as sometimes the sales reps have different views on limited business use and other types of business use.

I travel to meetings or conferences off site for work and get the equivalent of civil service mileage rates to cover this. I'm not a sales rep and don't carry goods, samples or equipment, apart from a laptop, so my understanding is that I need to be covered for limited business use. I may also car pool with colleagues if we are all going to the same meeting but was told by one insurer that limited business use does not allow you to carry passengers, so I would need Class 2 business cover. Other companies laugh when I tell them I have been told this and that Class 2 business cover is way over the top for the type of business travel I do.

For some companies it is straightforward you just get limited business cover and you're sorted but it means if you shop around you end up having the same conversation every year. It seems it is called different things in different companies, I.e. Class 1B, Class 2, etc.
I understand different policies may cover different things, can you offer clarity on what I should be asking for?

Class 1B is what you would require. It covers limited business use and would cover you for claiming mileage.

Class 2 would be for someone clocking up alot of miles, not a rep necessarily but heavier vehicle use than the average person.

A sales rep would need Class 3 which is for commercial travel.