Athiests - Who cares

Baggy Trousers

Michael OBrien wrote: »

Ok, so he did act a bit twatish on that occasion but sometimes a bit of an argument can be a good thing, provided it is civil. The idea that causing offence by NOT simply letting religious views have their way is somehow awful needs a bit of rethinking. Older people can be set in their ways, but that does not excuse them from being challenged, politely.
But there is such a thing as tact, which needs to be applied. The goal of a civil argument should be to expand and explore each others views, not to upset and antagonise them just for kicks.

He wouldn't have got away with that kind of talk in the 1970s! Fr Busybody would have got wind of it and sorted him right out!

Maximus Alexander

smash wrote: »

Your cousin sounds like a walking cliche.

I feel the same way about his cousin as atheists do about deities.

Grayson

Michael OBrien wrote: »

Yes, but one is a subcategory of the other, they are not the same thing.
An example would be if you are a catholic you are a christian, that does not mean all christians are catholic. Do you get my point. The positions are not equal and do hold different meanings.
So while both would be classed as atheist, one is a narrower definition than the other.

A good religious example would be Buddhists. It's a long running discussion about whether Buddhism is a philosophy or religion. It's actually possible for a Buddhist to believe in a higher God and at the same time most don't. So are they atheists or not?

I'd generally say not since there is a supernatural/spiritual aspect, but then again they're not actually believing in a particular God so they technically qualify.

looking_around

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Why though? If the program of educate together or similar schools is rolled out to meet demand how does the presence of publicly funded religious schools trample your childrens rights? Its not a zero sum game, you don't have to remove options from parents that would like a religious ethos to satisfy your demands?

there aren't any secular schools though, I mean you can tell a school that you don't want your child to participate in religion.
but in both primary and secondary school, they.are expected to sit through it all the same, they're just not required to participate.

it shouldn't be like this, schools that are "secular" should actually be secular. ie. no religious brain washing.

Magico Gonzalez

Anyone who can't stop gobbing on about the superiority of their beliefs is a tiresome ballroot.

Be that atheism, religion, nationalism or even "their" football team. All the same.

Michael OBrien

Grayson wrote: »

A good religious example would be Buddhists. It's a long running discussion about whether Buddhism is a philosophy or religion. It's actually possible for a Buddhist to believe in a higher God and at the same time most don't. So are they atheists or not?

I'd generally say not since there is a supernatural/spiritual aspect, but then again they're not actually believing in a particular God so they technically qualify.

There are certain types of buddhists that have theistic leanings but most buddhists would be atheistic. What is even more interesting is that some hindus can be atheistic and still practice hinduism legitimately (I don't mean ex-hindus or cultural hindus).
As long as someone does not believe in a god, they are atheist. Everything else is additional stances that are optional to that label.
The closest other example would be bachelor, you can be all sorts of bachelor as long as you satisfy one simple requirement, to not be married.

Icepick

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

The new breed of atheist is really excruciatingly annoying to be fair.

One of my cousins is this unfortunate breed (overweight, scraggly facial-hair, does something with computers).

He's always been a bit odd, but no one normally paid him too much attention. This year he was over in our house on Christmas morning as my mother normally hosts her family for a few nibbles and drinks after mass. He was obnoxiously wishing everyone a "happy winter festival" :rolleyes: Got into a huge argument and offended our dear old Grand Aunt who had the temerity to say "God Bless" to him. This caused him to go into a big tirade about sky fairies and sexual abuse yadda yadda yadda. He refused to attend mass with the rest of the family and instead sat outside playing Minecraft on his phone and listening to some God-awful heavy metal music. We were left in no doubt that he is an atheist anyway...

Do you complain the same way about Christians proselytizing, preaching, moralizing and patronizing others?

Baggy Trousers

I wish people cared about Planet Earth as much as they do about who created it.

The Bould Rabbit

harrymagina wrote: »

Had a friend going around telling the whole local pub he is an athiest after a few jars.

In fairness to him, if it takes a few jars for him to talk about what he doesn't believe in, that's a hell of a lot less than most of the believers I know who bring their faith up numerous times a day. And they're stone cold sober.

blastman

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

The new breed of atheist is really excruciatingly annoying to be fair.

One of my cousins is this unfortunate breed (overweight, scraggly facial-hair, does something with computers).

He's always been a bit odd, but no one normally paid him too much attention. This year he was over in our house on Christmas morning as my mother normally hosts her family for a few nibbles and drinks after mass. He was obnoxiously wishing everyone a "happy winter festival" :rolleyes: Got into a huge argument and offended our dear old Grand Aunt who had the temerity to say "God Bless" to him. This caused him to go into a big tirade about sky fairies and sexual abuse yadda yadda yadda. He refused to attend mass with the rest of the family and instead sat outside playing Minecraft on his phone and listening to some God-awful heavy metal music. We were left in no doubt that he is an atheist anyway...

Ah, the old "my car is red, therefore all cars must be red" argument...

:rolleyes:

My car isn't red, BTW....

Piliger

harrymagina wrote: »

Had a friend going around telling the whole local pub he is an athiest after a few jars. I know another Athiest who loves telling people that he is an athiest and going on about how he has been arguing about his wife about baptising the child and keeps bringing it up. I don't care if you are an athiest just please stay quiet about it! How are your athiest friends?

I take it you say the same things about people who wear crucifix necklaces, go to mass each week, wear dog collars ? Yes ?

Aongus Von Bismarck

smash wrote: »

Your cousin sounds like a walking cliche.

My father did describe him as a walking c**t alright.

Shrap

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

Anyone who can't stop gobbing on about the superiority of their beliefs is a tiresome ballroot.

Be that atheism, religion, nationalism or even "their" football team. All the same.

Beliefs OR interests. I've been bored off my tits many's a time by historical re-enactment fans. I'd welcome an old religion/atheism discussion before that again :eek:

Shrap

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

My father did describe him as a walking c**t alright.

He sounds more like someone with social difficulties tbh. Not sure his atheism is relevant as he'd clearly annoy the heads off you in some other way if it wasn't with the touchiness about religion.

Grayson

Shrap wrote: »

Beliefs OR interests. I've been bored off my tits many's a time by historical re-enactment fans. I'd welcome an old religion/atheism discussion before that again :eek:

I had to site next to a guy who owned a glazing business at a wedding. 90 minutes of talk about double and triple glazing. He though my idea of getting a 5 pane window and calling it "Fusion Glazing" was great.

Nobody should think that's a good idea.

gormdubhgorm

harrymagina wrote: »

Had a friend going around telling the whole local pub he is an athiest after a few jars. I know another Athiest who loves telling people that he is an athiest and going on about how he has been arguing about his wife about baptising the child and keeps bringing it up. I don't care if you are an athiest just please stay quiet about it! How are your athiest friends?

On the plus side: you wont have to put up with this fella for eternity

zcorpian88

harrymagina wrote: »

Had a friend going around telling the whole local pub he is an athiest after a few jars. I know another Athiest who loves telling people that he is an athiest and going on about how he has been arguing about his wife about baptising the child and keeps bringing it up. I don't care if you are an athiest just please stay quiet about it! How are your athiest friends?

Any athiest I know is the same, they have to gain all the attention when out at a party, if somebody brings up God or Jesus or any religous phrase. One particular friend of mine will go on this big rant and won't shut up for the night.

I myself am not religous but I don't like labelling myself either, too busy living to be gawking up at the sky.

The only reason most people baptize their children in my mind would be so their kid has somewhat of a normal childhood, the same as their own and everybody elses. Being left out of the Catholic mumbo jumbo in schools like communion and confirmation that would be a breeding ground for children to alienate the different kid who didn't go for communion, might be damaging to a kids self esteem. Kids can be cruel that way.

Zubeneschamali

zcorpian88 wrote: »

Any athiest I know is the same.

No, any atheist you know about may be like this.

But you know plenty of other atheists who don't advertise it. Some in church, even. I once heard a parish priest giving a sermon say he didn't believe in God.

wp_rathead

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

No, any atheist you know about may belike this.

But you know plenty of other atheists who don't advertise it. Some in church, even. I once heard a parish priest giving a sermon say he didn't believe in God.

Was it Fr Jack by any chance?

Macavity.

I hear more people complaining about annoying atheists than actual annoying atheists. Hmmmmm....

shruikan2553

Macavity. wrote: »

I hear more people complaining about annoying atheists than actual annoying atheists. Hmmmmm....

I asked someone was he going to mass. He said no, he doesnt believe that stuff!

Whats this world coming to when people can just start catholic bashing by saying that kind of stuff

kneemos

What do atheists say instead of ohh God when having sex.

PopePalpatine

zcorpian88 wrote: »

The only reason most people baptize their children in my mind would be so their kid has somewhat of a normal childhood, the same as their own and everybody elses. Being left out of the Catholic mumbo jumbo in schools like communion and confirmation that would be a breeding ground for children to alienate the different kid who didn't go for communion, might be damaging to a kids self esteem. Kids can be cruel that way.

What's wrong with teaching kids not to be bullies?

shruikan2553

kneemos wrote: »

What do atheists say instead of ohh God when having sex.

ohh dawkins or ohh science.

zcorpian88

PopePalpatine wrote: »

What's wrong with teaching kids not to be bullies?

You could teach kids until your blue in the face, kids can pick up the bully factor anywhere...at home, picking the wrong people to be friends with etc. A kid could have the most perfect parents in the world and their kid can still be a bully.

looking_around

PopePalpatine wrote: »

What's wrong with teaching kids not to be bullies?

or better yet, take religion out of school, rather than the focus that all are catholic, and if you're not, you can just sit in the corner and be left out for the hour.
Children will always have something to judge others by. We don't need to make it easier for them.

RDM_83 again

The Bould Rabbit wrote: »

In fairness to him, if it takes a few jars for him to talk about what he doesn't believe in, that's a hell of a lot less than most of the believers I know who bring their faith up numerous times a day. And they're stone cold sober.

Ah come on who do you hang around with that brings up their faith numerous times a day, if you do I'd recommend you stop hanging around the legion of Mary.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

The morning after my boyfriend's housewarming party he got up, had a stretch and went "Oh, jesus" as you do. Frightened the life out of him when my sister's then boyfriend, who was on the couch and, he thought, asleep, chimed in with "He doesn't exist!"

Baggy Trousers

Did you hear about the insomniac dyslexic agnostic man?

He stayed up all night wondering if there was a dog.

The Bould Rabbit

zcorpian88 wrote: »

Any athiest I know is the same, they have to gain all the attention when out at a party, if somebody brings up God or Jesus or any religous phrase. One particular friend of mine will go on this big rant and won't shut up for the night.

So somebody else brings up God or Jesus first, but if an atheist responds, they're the asshole.

Right so.

ChunkyLover54

The Bould Rabbit wrote: »

In fairness to him, if it takes a few jars for him to talk about what he doesn't believe in, that's a hell of a lot less than most of the believers I know who bring their faith up numerous times a day. And they're stone cold sober.

I don't think I have ever had anyone I know bring up their religious faith in conversation (if they had one).

Unless you are living somewhere on the U.S. bible belt I think you're exaggerating.

I'm secular and it seems these days the only time anyone brings my attention to the issue of religion is when some "atheist" brings it up (even with the flimsiest of connections with the conversation we were having).

zcorpian88

The Bould Rabbit wrote: »

So somebody else brings up God or Jesus first, but if an atheist responds, they're the asshole.

Right so.

I didn't say "They're the asshole"

It relatively starts off in an innocent sceanrio where somebody would say "Went to Christmas mass with the family and the carols were lovely, the sermon bored me to tears" some casual sentence like that and then it spins into this militant tirade about somebody going to mass and believing in a false prophet, and making the person feel like lesser person for attending mass if they want to. People can go to mass if they want, no skin off my nose.

shruikan2553

zcorpian88 wrote: »

I didn't say "They're the asshole"

It relatively starts off in an innocent sceanrio where somebody would say "Went to Christmas mass with the family and the carols were lovely, the sermon bored me to tears" some casual sentence like that and then it spins into this militant tirade about somebody going to mass and believing in a false prophet, and making the person feel like lesser person for attending mass if they want to. People can go to mass if they want, no skin off my nose.

Dont suppose your atheist friend wears a balaclava and is called Ahmed?

I'm an atheist and the only atheists I can't stand are those who insist people with faith are universally stupid. I've met and worked with far too many clever theists to think there's any merit in that position.

I don't believe in a deity, that's it. It doesn't entitles me to preach my absence of belief any more than a theist has a right to preach about their belief, it doesn't make me a being of superior logic, and it doesn't validate me being obnoxious to people who do believe. It just means I don't believe in a deity.

How atheists can discuss something they don't believe in, at great length and in great depth, is a mystery to me. I can't sustain a conversation about my atheism, in the same way that I can't sustain a conversation about my lack of belief in unicorns or fairies.

TheBeardedLady

Candie wrote: »

I'm an atheist and the only atheists I can't stand are those who insist people with faith are universally stupid. I've met and worked with far too many clever theists to think there's any merit in that position.

I don't believe in a deity, that's it. It doesn't entitles me to preach my absence of belief any more than a theist has a right to preach about their belief, it doesn't make me a being of superior logic, and it doesn't validate me being obnoxious to people who do believe. It just means I don't believe in a deity.

How atheists can discuss something they don't believe in, at great length and in great depth, is a mystery to me. I can't sustain a conversation about my atheism, in the same way that I can't sustain a conversation about my lack of belief in unicorns or fairies.

It's a boring conversation and one I've never been subjected to, thank fook.

The_Captain

I'd be pretty athie, probably athier than most people, but I wouldn't say I'm the athiest.

One eyed Jack

kneemos wrote: »

What do atheists say instead of ohh God when having sex.

"Tá mé ag teacht"?


Shìt! Sorry, was saving that for the upcoming Irish language thread (because we're due another one any day now).

I ain't sure about Judgment Day, but every day feels like judgment day (of other people that aren't the same as meee!) in AH, it's great!


I got as far as page 20 in this thread before I simply gave up and skipped to the last few pages... It's just the bloody same thing on every single page! Pages after pages of this -

One eyed Jack wrote: »

With regard to the OP and the whole idea of "religion in AH", this has been discussed numerous times in Feedback already, (just do a search like I did, plenty of threads on it) and the general consensus seems to be that it's perfectly acceptable to disseminate and discuss religions and the various religious beliefs, and the argument made for it was that religious beliefs are intrinsically intertwined in Irish society and have an impact on Irish society.

That's a perfectly reasonable point of view and I think we should discuss these issues, and I think they can be discussed in AH. That rarely ever happens though, discussion I mean. Instead what seems to happen is the threads end up in a muck slinging match and who can appear to be the most morally superior and humanitarian, all the while insulting people left, right and centre. It really does appear like the basic rules of Boards ("attack the post, not the poster", "don't be a dick") are completely abandoned and I imagine the Mods drawing straws amongst themselves as to who's going to intervene in the shìtstorm.

Civil discussion just doesn't happen, it's just the usual rabble rousing, petty insults for thanks, finger wagging moralising, ill informed generalisations, mouthing off on social media, and no attempt made to understand where other posters are coming from (if you're not entirely with us, you're against us), mob mentality, group think, and if anyone is expecting nuanced discussion, fcuk that craic, extremist opinion is where it's at apparently.

Like I said, I'm all for discussion of religion and religious beliefs and how they impact upon society in AH, but I can completely understand if someone wanted the discussion moved out of AH to another forum where posters would have to raise their game and discuss the actual issues, instead of merely trading insults and snide remarks aimed at each other which gets nobody anywhere and is just tiresome to read for anyone who isn't an extremist, or simply anyone who isn't interested in trolling other posters looking for thanks.

I'm glad Boards isn't like Facebook, but jesus christ AH isn't far bloody off it at times. It's one of my favourite forums, and just to keep things in perspective - these threads are only a tiny amount of what's posted in AH, but they're clearly the most contentious time sinks.

Stealthfins

Which came first the A or the theist ?

Sisko

Candie wrote: »

How atheists can discuss something they don't believe in, at great length and in great depth, is a mystery to me. I can't sustain a conversation about my atheism, in the same way that I can't sustain a conversation about my lack of belief in unicorns or fairies.

I'm not an atheist but I am non religious.

I don't understand the mystery. Every single day the stupidity of religion and its followers is thrown in our faces. Look at Paris. Religion is one of the massive weights that holds back human society and progress. The constant stream stupid things in modern society that shouldn't be, but are, due to religion is...well, constant.

When your the only kid in class who knows santa isnt real, yet everyone in the class is constantly behaving and handling every day deeds in the context that there is a magical man in the north poll who sees all, well its very easy for that kid to have a lot to talk about.

COYVB

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I believe that an in between does exist.

How can you both believe in something and not believe in it?

xLisaBx

COYVB wrote: »

How can you both believe in something and not believe in it?

Theoretical physics! Many people do not believe in a deity but do have hopes for an afterlife. It's all really decided with one question: is time infinite or not? If time is infinite, then infinite possibilities exist. Therefore, we will technically live again. If time is finite, there is no afterlife.

The Bould Rabbit

kneemos wrote: »

What do atheists say instead of ohh God when having sex.

shruikan2553 wrote: »

ohh dawkins or ohh science.

Ah, but what if you're one of the millions of atheists who can't stand Dawkins or millions more who never heard of him, and, like me couldn't give a stuff about science? :P

Sisko

xLisaBx wrote: »

Theoretical physics! Many people do not believe in a deity but do have hopes for an afterlife. It's all really decided with one question: is time infinite or not? If time is infinite, then infinite possibilities exist. Therefore, we will technically live again. If time is finite, there is no afterlife.

We are all made of star dust and energy cannot be destroyed only converted.

So maybe consciousness does move on to some higher plane of existence once we pass on. This is why I don't call myself atheist. I think whatever the answer is, is 'probably' currently greater than anything man kind can come up with, never mind something man from 2000 years ago can invent. Which is why I'm not religious.

xLisaBx

The Bould Rabbit wrote: »

Ah, but what if you're one of the millions of atheists who can't stand Dawkins or millions more who never heard of him, and, like me couldn't give a stuff about science? :P

"Oh Scientific Method" "OH SCIENTIFIC METHOD!"

xLisaBx

Sisko wrote: »

We are all made of star dust and energy cannot be destroyed only converted.

So maybe consciousness does move on to some higher plane of existence once we pass on. This is why I don't call myself atheist. I think whatever the answer is, is 'probably' currently greater than anything man kind can come up with, never mind something man from 2000 years ago can invent. Which is why I'm not religious.

That's really interesting, I sometimes think the same. Particles of us still exist. For me it's not whether god exists or not, it's the duration of time

shruikan2553

The Bould Rabbit wrote: »

Ah, but what if you're one of the millions of atheists who can't stand Dawkins or millions more who never heard of him, and, like me couldn't give a stuff about science? :P

Everyone knows all atheists love Dawkins and worship him as a God.

If you dont like him you arent a real atheist, just a Christian going through a phase. :pac:

Sisko

For me, even the idea of "God" is simplistic and dated.

There probably is some super beings out their in the universe that might fit some old ideas of "a god". Hell, we might even be destined to "create god" in the next few hundred years what with the singularity and what not which would be ironic.


A higher power? Maybe, as that could mean more than just the idea of a single mind belonging to a single super alien being that created everything in the universe just so "he" can watch every single minute of everyone's lives and get angry if people stop hating on the gays, have sex before marriage or say bold naughty words that he doesn't like.

I can say will 100% confidence that such a being does not exist.

But meaning behind the universe and existence itself? A collective consciousness maybe? I don't know. Maybe. Hence the non-atheist thing.

The Bould Rabbit

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Everyone knows all atheists love Dawkins and worship him as a God.

Ah, but what did atheists do in the years BD ?

Or was Dawkins always there since the beginning of time and still be always there till the end of time?

Bootros Bootros

I am thirsty and have to piss. At the same time.

Where's your Dawkins now Atheists?

Maximus Alexander

COYVB wrote: »

How can you both believe in something and not believe in it?

Cognitive dissonance baby.