Athiests - Who cares

Zubeneschamali

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

My problem is the idea that everyone has their own beliefs and they are all equally special valid.

Nope: most people's beliefs are wrong.

Most people in Ireland's beliefs are right (i.e. Catholics), its the atheists that are wrong

o1s1n

Corbin Silly Pan wrote: »

Most people in Ireland's beliefs are right (i.e. Catholics), its the atheists that are wrong

You're very lucky that you just happened to be born into the correct religion, aren't you?

It's like you won the ultimate lottery :pac:

Zubeneschamali

o1s1n wrote: »

You're very lucky that you just happened to be born into the correct religion, aren't you?

Not only born into the one religion out of thousands which happens to be true, but also in one of the countries where that true religion happens to be the majority religion.

Or it could be a statistical effect...

Piliger

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Not only born into the one religion out of thousands which happens to be true, but also in one of the countries where that true religion happens to be the majority religion.

Or it could be a statistical effect...

Indeed. By popular vote flying elephants DO exist ! Cue celebrations ...

AudreyHepburn

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

My problem is the idea that everyone has their own beliefs and they are all equally special valid.

Nope: most people's beliefs are wrong.

How do you make that out? How can you prove that?

Answer; You can't, it's just your own opinion, your own belief which is fine of course. Just don't try to pass it off as fact when it's not.

MistyCheese

Some Atheists seem to be as eager to convert as latter day Christians.

nozzferrahhtoo

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

How do you make that out? How can you prove that?

Answer; You can't, it's just your own opinion, your own belief which is fine of course. Just don't try to pass it off as fact when it's not.

Well thats what you get for answering a question for someone before waiting for theirs. It is in fact true what the user claims. When it comes to religion most people are wrong.

How do we know this? Simple figures. Whatever religion you pick, there are more people in the world NOT in that religion than in it.

So there are two possibilities.

The first is that no religion has it right. Therefore the users claim that most people are wrong is correct. This is the likely one given there is no reason on offer at all to even think there is a god, so all the religions are wrong by default.

The second is that ONE religion does actually have it right. But given that there are more people NOT in that religion than in it, its STILL true to say that most people are wrong when it comes to religion.

So either way, what the user said is essentially correct.

kylith

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

How do you make that out? How can you prove that?

Answer; You can't, it's just your own opinion, your own belief which is fine of course. Just don't try to pass it off as fact when it's not.

Disagree. Christians say all other religions are wrong. Muslims say all other religions are wrong. Ditto for Hinduism, Scientology, Judaism, Sikhism, and all other religions. Atheists say all religions are wrong. If one group's beliefs/assertions are right then all the other groups' must be wrong, ergo most people are wrong.

kneemos

MistyCheese wrote: »

Some Atheists seem to be as eager to convert as latter day Christians.

Preach and convert.

Saralee4

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I don't think so - consider someone raised in an atheist household. They've lived their whole lives up to 18 without taking the whole God thing seriously, it's just an silly tale like Santa or the Tooth Fairy.

This person has done what most people do: absorbed the attitude of their parents uncritically, but is still unquestionably an atheist.

most children at some point question things. Ie the meaning of life, science.

I don't get this argument that being atheist require no thought. If anything living your life by the rules of a book which you shouldn't question because you should have faith requires less thought as you just accept what you are told as truth. (I don't believe that it requires no thought to be religious or atheist myself but people seem stuck on that argument which you could say on either side and it doesn't even make sense. Of course it requires thought to choose what to believe in) and values or Morals do not come from a religion, the religion merely preaches them but we all know plenty of instances where religious people have not followed or lived by those values.

There are people who are intelligent atheist and religious people that have strong good moral values and there is the opposite on both sides too.

values and Morals stem from what you believe is right and wrong which stems from your ability to empathise and put yourself in someone else's shoes.

Baggy Trousers

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

How do you make that out? How can you prove that?

Answer; You can't, it's just your own opinion, your own belief which is fine of course. Just don't try to pass it off as fact when it's not.

Statistically he is probably right, there are 200+ documented deities or gods...you cant all be right.

AudreyHepburn

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

Statistically he is probably right, there are 200+ documented deities or gods...you cant all be right.

I didn't say that to be fair.

My own opinion is that nobody knows for sure, it's a matter of opinion and belief and to pretend otherwise, whether your viewpoint is atheist or theist is wrong.

Ole Rodrigo

How do you spot an Atheist at a party ?

No need to bother, they'll tell you.

:pac:

Peist2007

MistyCheese wrote: »

Some Atheists seem to be as eager to convert as latter day Christians.

I think it's just human nature to point out a waste of time to your fellow man. Even Jebus would have followed such a sentiment. It would have been dressed up in a metaphor about fish or sand or something, but the premise would still have been there.

Baggy Trousers

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I didn't say that to be fair.

My own opinion is that nobody knows for sure, it's a matter of opinion and belief and to pretend otherwise, whether your viewpoint is atheist or theist is wrong.

I can read above what you replied to, just admit that you are wrong in this instance.

Peist2007

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I didn't say that to be fair.

My own opinion is that nobody knows for sure, it's a matter of opinion and belief and to pretend otherwise, whether your viewpoint is atheist or theist is wrong.

Do you believe in the planet located 50 billion light years away where half-human half-duck creatures fly and waddle all over the place? I do. I will say though that nobody knows for sure, it's a matter of opinion and belief and to pretend otherwise is wrong.

Gbear

Ole Rodrigo wrote: »

How do you spot an Atheist at a party ?

No need to bother, they'll tell you.

:pac:

I don't think I've ever seen that happen and I've known plenty of atheists.

It's probably a thing in cultures where it's a big deal (like Ireland 20 years ago) but young people just aren't very religious any more.

kneemos

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

Statistically he is probably right, there are 200+ documented deities or gods...you cant all be right.

One of them can be right.

Peist2007

kneemos wrote: »

One of them can be right.

Is one though? Whats your reason for thinking it is right ahead of the others?

One eyed Jack

Saralee4 wrote: »

most children at some point question things. Ie the meaning of life, science.

I don't get this argument that being atheist require no thought. If anything living your life by the rules of a book which you shouldn't question because you should have faith requires less thought as you just accept what you are told as truth. (I don't believe that it requires no thought to be religious or athesism myself but people seem stuck on that argument which you could say on either side and it doesn't even make sense. Of course it requires thought to choose what to believe in) and values or Morals do not come from a religion, the religion merely preaches them but we all know plenty of instances where religious people have not followed or lived by those values.

There are people who are intelligent atheist and religious people that have strong good moral values and there is the opposite on both sides too.

values and Morals stem from what you believe is right and wrong which stems from your ability to empathise and put yourself in someone else's shoes.

Sara I think you're misconstruing what I'm saying when I say that atheism requires no thought. Atheism isn't a belief system. The very essence of atheism is an absence of belief. Therefore there simply isn't anything to question, there isn't anything to think about, there isn't anything to believe in. It's simply a neutral position and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. What IS wrong however is to coral in all the stuff you DO believe in, such as your belief in humanity and so on, with your atheist position. In the same way as you quite rightly point out that people don't need a book to tell them how to live, a person who is atheist doesn't need to identify with anything else in order to tell them how to live either. Your humanitarianism is a completely separate and distinct ideology from your atheism. There is nothing to distinguish a person who is atheist from a person who is religious, other than the fact they simply do not acknowledge the possibility of a deity or deities.

All those 'debates' we see on YouTube and the TED talks and so on are nothing more than prominent figures in both camps doing PR exercises for their respective positions. Neither side is ever likely to give an inch, it's just done for show. I believe that every person should be able to decide for themselves what feels right for them, but I believe they do not have the right to impose their ideology on complete strangers to them. As is the case with any ideology though - there are some people that share that belief, and there are some people that don't. I also happen to believe that just because a person tries to impose their ideology on me, I don't think there much point in me bothering to retaliate in kind. That just leads to a bitching match where both of us end up unhappy. I'm cool with letting the person think they've "won", if that's what keeps them happy. If I were in the OP's position (and I often have been), I would have simply shook it off rather than let it upset me enough to start a thread about it on here.

seamus

kneemos wrote: »

One of them can be right.

200+ is also incorrect. There are several thousand "documented" Gods through human history.

And undoubtedly several hundred thousand undocumented Gods that have been invented and forgotten through human prehistory.

In reality there are an infinite number of possible gods imaginable (as well as an infinite number of godless scenarios).

So everyone who claims to be certain about anything is wrong. Picking a god is like picking a number between one and 5674 quintillion and being absolutely sure that your number will be picked out of the pot.

kneemos

Peist2007 wrote: »

Is one though? Whats your reason for thinking it is right ahead of the others?

No particular reason,just sayin one of them could be right.

Peist2007

kneemos wrote: »

No particular reason,just sayin one of them could be right.

There are infinite possibilities, as already pointed out. Of course, one of them could be true. There is no actual evidence of this whatsoever but one could be true. What i want to know is what gets you out of bed on a Sunday to go to Mass and worship your particular God?

Baggy Trousers

kneemos wrote: »

One of them can be right.

can=could

Unlikely all the same.

Baggy Trousers

Ole Rodrigo wrote: »

How do you spot an Atheist at a party ?

No need to bother, they'll tell you.

:pac:

I think I heard that for owners of iPhones too but I think they are both nonsense.

Peist2007

Peist2007 wrote: »

There are infinite possibilities, as already pointed out. Of course, one of them could be true. There is no actual evidence of this whatsoever but one could be true. What i want to know is what gets you out of bed on a Sunday to go to Mass and worship your particular God?

I prefer Sunday evening mass myself.

CruelCoin

seamus wrote: »

So everyone who claims to be certain about anything is wrong. Picking a god is like picking a number between one and 5674 quintillion and being absolutely sure that your number will be picked out of the pot.

You are of course wrong.

Everyone knows that Pikki Woki is the one true god.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Pikkiwoki-the-Papua-New-Guinean-mud-god/110840145608298

besides, he's promising all the coconuts i can carry!

Baggy Trousers

CruelCoin wrote: »

You are of course wrong.

Everyone knows that Pikki Woki is the one true god.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Pikkiwoki-the-Papua-New-Guinean-mud-god/110840145608298

besides, he's promising all the coconuts i can carry!

Is he not a bit too....how do I say this.....muddy?

kneemos

Peist2007 wrote: »

There are infinite possibilities, as already pointed out. Of course, one of them could be true. There is no actual evidence of this whatsoever but one could be true. What i want to know is what gets you out of bed on a Sunday to go to Mass and worship your particular God?

People get out of bed to give thanks and praise I presume.

Baggy Trousers

Peist2007 wrote: »

There are infinite possibilities, as already pointed out. Of course, one of them could be true. There is no actual evidence of this whatsoever but one could be true. What i want to know is what gets you out of bed on a Sunday to go to Mass and worship your particular God?

Flock mentality.

CruelCoin

kneemos wrote: »

People get out of bed to give thanks and praise I presume.

Well yes, we get that, but why?

Why their god as opposed to ANY of these: http://i48.tinypic.com/10px942.jpg

I'm not sure on the validity or the intelligence of a belief formed entirely from "Sure, everyone else believes in this one"

CruelCoin

CruelCoin wrote: »

http://i48.tinypic.com/10px942.jpg

Just saw that Pikki-Woki isn't on that list.

What blasphemy is this?

CruelCoin

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

Is he not a bit too....how do I say this.....muddy?

Accept his slimy embrace!

One eyed Jack

kneemos wrote: »

People get out of bed to give thanks and praise I presume.

Exactly.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that all the girls from the local teacher training college... just, happen to be there at the same time...

kneemos

It's hard to argue with atheists when they don't believe anything you say.

timetogo

kneemos wrote: »

It's hard to argue with atheists when they don't believe anything you say.

I'd say it's hard to argue with atheists or anybody if you can't provide any evidence for your argument.

I argue with people all of the time that I don't believe. Some of them change my mind because they can show where I'm wrong or have evidence to back up their argument.

When I say evidence there I mean real evidence. Some "evidence" I've seen for a creator have included

• a book written / rewritten over the last few hundred years by many people.
• a feeling.
• a sunrise. That one looks like a typo but you'll see people arguing about how beautiful something is so it must have been created by some god.

Saralee4

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Sara I think you're misconstruing what I'm saying when I say that atheism requires no thought. Atheism isn't a belief system. The very essence of atheism is an absence of belief. Therefore there simply isn't anything to question, there isn't anything to think about, there isn't anything to believe in. It's simply a neutral position and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. What IS wrong however is to coral in all the stuff you DO believe in, such as your belief in humanity and so on, with your atheist position. In the same way as you quite rightly point out that people don't need a book to tell them how to live, a person who is atheist doesn't need to identify with anything else in order to tell them how to live either. Your humanitarianism is a completely separate and distinct ideology from your atheism. There is nothing to distinguish a person who is atheist from a person who is religious, other than the fact they simply do not acknowledge the possibility of a deity or deities.

.

If you come to the conclusion that you are atheist, this brings along other questions about the world, why you are here, who you are. Ideas Have consequences. You are most likely going to turn to reason and science. Just because I reject a belief system that has been given to me does not mean that I cannot create my own belief system.

Its not as simple as 'rejecting' a belief system either. There are many parts of the bible that I agree with and are part of my belief system and many that are not. Even most religious people take from the bible only parts and do not follow it exactly how it is suggested. I know a lot of catholic people who go to the pub on a sunday "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy." or who take the lords name in vain. There system is flawed?

'a person who is atheist doesn't need to identify with anything else in order to tell them how to live either. Your humanitarianism is a completely separate and distinct ideology from your atheism.'

A person does need to identify with something else be it science, humanitarianism etc the person will identify with other things and form their own belief system on this based on the fact that they don't believe in religion. Its not like one of those sketches in Little Britain where the woman says 'computer says no'. Its is not as simple as saying 'I reject this' move on. There are distinct beliefs that I have simply because I reject religion.

Humanitarianism: “Humanitarian”, originally a theological term, referred to one who affirmed the humanity of Christ, while denying his divine existence. It came to mean the application of purely human action – without religious sanction – to the resolution of social problems. In this sense it first appears in the early 19th century; at that time it carried ironic overtones, suggesting an excess of zeal or sentimentality in those who would change the world."

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/08/doctrine-humanitarianism-not-benign

magma69

Being an atheist in Egypt gets you three years in prison.

http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2015/jan/13/egyptian-student-jailed-for-proclaiming-that-he-is-an-atheist

Baggy Trousers

magma69 wrote: »

Being an atheist in Egypt gets you three years in prison.

http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2015/jan/13/egyptian-student-jailed-for-proclaiming-that-he-is-an-atheist

Atheists are perceived as worse than Christians for Muslims.

Christians and Muslims essentially worship the same god and Muslims do recognise Jesus as a great prophet.

Peist2007

kneemos wrote: »

It's hard to argue with atheists when they don't believe anything you say.

Do you call being asked a very simple question twice and not answering it an argument? You haven't put any argument forward whatsoever.

Peist2007

"My belief system"

Something is real or it isnt. You apply the same logic to deciding on whether it is real as you would to anything else ie is there any evidence for its existence? Do i believe in the planet Jupiter? Yes, it has been shown to exist. Do i believe in God? No, because God has not been shown to exist and the "belief system" people refer to is simply them deciding he is real and that is that.

I wont even go into why religion is there. If you think religion was created "to give thanks" then you need to read up on your history. Religion went a long way to helping civilise society but that job has been more or less done. Therefore, religion is a busted flush. I think the numbers and age profiles attending church is indicative of that.

magma69

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

Atheists are perceived as worse than Christians for Muslims.

Christians and Muslims essentially worship the same god and Muslims do recognise Jesus as a great prophet.

Ya but shur atheists are only a pack of whingers.

kneemos

Peist2007 wrote: »

Do you call being asked a very simple question twice and not answering it an argument? You haven't put any argument forward whatsoever.

Ah I proved the existence of God earlier on in the thread.
I think my work here is done.

Peist2007

kneemos wrote: »

Ah I proved the existence of God earlier on in the thread.
I think my work here is done.

You were asked a couple of direct questions and have decided to start making light of things to deflect. Very indicative of the imaginary nature of your position. I just couldnt deal with the denial.

kneemos

Peist2007 wrote: »

You were asked a couple of direct questions and have decided to start making light of things to deflect. Very indicative of the imaginary nature of your position. I just couldnt deal with the denial.

Far as I can see I answered both of your questions.

One eyed Jack

Peist2007 wrote: »

"My belief system"

Something is real or it isnt. You apply the same logic to deciding on whether it is real as you would to anything else ie is there any evidence for its existence? Do i believe in the planet Jupiter? Yes, it has been shown to exist. Do i believe in God? No, because God has not been shown to exist and the "belief system" people refer to is simply them deciding he is real and that is that.

I wont even go into why religion is there. If you think religion was created "to give thanks" then you need to read up on your history. Religion went a long way to helping civilise society but that job has been more or less done. Therefore, religion is a busted flush. I think the numbers and age profiles attending church is indicative of that.

Which Church would that be now, because if you were talking about the RCC in Ireland, I could understand why you might assume that was the case, but if you were to include all religious denominations and faiths in Irish society, you'd be well wide of the mark, and even more so if you were to claim that your opinion is true of Western society, and if we were to include the Middle East, Africa, India and China in terms of a global society...

Well, can you see now how you might be mistaken?

Peist2007

kneemos wrote: »

Far as I can see I answered both of your questions.

No, you didnt. I have no interest in a childish conversation.

Peist2007

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Which Church would that be now, because if you were talking about the RCC in Ireland, I could understand why you might assume that was the case, but if you were to include all religious denominations and faiths in Irish society, you'd be well wide of the mark, and even more so if you were to claim that your opinion is true of Western society, and if we were to include the Middle East, Africa, India and China in terms of a global society...

Well, can you see now how you might be mistaken?

I am talking about medieval and Renaissance Europe. Where the concept of imposing religious beliefs was first made into big business. And no, i am not mistaken.

Zubeneschamali

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Answer; You can't, it's just your own opinion, your own belief which is fine of course.

I didn't say I can prove who is right, but it is easy to prove most people are wrong.

Peist2007

Peist2007 wrote: »

Therefore, religion is a busted flush. I think the numbers and age profiles attending church is indicative of that.

You should head to mass some Sunday you will find an awful lot more people going than atheists would like to admit and also lots of young people and young adults.

I know it's a day that a lot of non-regular mass goers attend (that said a large percentage I would know as regulars) but still Christmas Eve mass in my local church this year was the busiest that even my parents can remember never mind me and they would remember when absolutely everybody attended mass.

Mass attendance dipped a few years ago but numbers are increasing again you can see it every Sunday.