Athiests - Who cares

smash

constance tench wrote: »

I'm saying we shouldn't discount the existence of something we don't fully understand.

There's nothing to understand. Someone wrote in a book "God exists" and others blindly followed. It was words written in a book, by men who had extremely limited education, in order to control the population. Over the past few centuries, the stories written in the book have been proved to be false yet people still seem to believe. But not only do they believe, they've decided to pick and choose what they want to believe from the book. Hypocrisy in it's highest form.

o1s1n

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

Yeah I made that point earlier - I am not an atheist, I am simply atheist.
I don't meet up with fellow atheists discussing what we don't believe in and plotting the downfall of the Roman church.

I think I may just go ahead and drop that 'an' too!

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Very true but I think there is a tendency towards a certain set of social mores/views that often coincide with someone being aware another person is an Atheist (e.g the type of Atheist that tells you ), take a gander at A&A and you can see there is some very strong trends among the majority of posters that don't simply relate to lack of belief

There is definitely a subset of people who seem to enjoy telling people they are atheists. Funny thing is, they'd probably do the same if they became a Jehovah's Witness/Mormon etc.

I don't think it's the fact that they're an atheist, it's more to do with them discovering something new and wanting to tell others. The reason you see it happen a lot with atheism is that you have more people disconnecting from religion completely rather than joining new ones. So are more exposed to it.

Saying that, I'm well aware you have neckbeard, foaming at the mouth atheists who spout nonsense online. They're best ignored, like all neckbeards :pac:

Maximus Alexander

Saipanne wrote: »

No. Stating that God doesn't exist is a faith position, because there is no way of knowing whether this is true. Have an old think about it before you or anyone replies.

You don't have to state that God doesn't exist to be an atheist. All you have to do is not believe that God exists. This is a major distinction.

Michael OBrien

kneemos wrote: »

Atheism is flawed logic as it rules out the possibility of the unexplained and as any scientist will tell you their whole life is devoted to the unexplained.

You don't understand atheism then. Atheists accept that such questions may be unexplained. Not believing someone who posits answers to such unknowns without sufficient credible evidence is not making the opposite statement that the answer HAS to be impossible. Some claims are self refuting, some claims can be dismissed as highly likely false because there is counter evidence showing that to be the most likely scenario, but it does not rule out stuff that is unexplained. Many god claims are explained via human nature and their origins coming from or evolving from earlier myths and social/political pressures too. Cargo cults being one example where their god is not unexplained just certain misunderstandings by their believers.

o1s1n

Saipanne wrote: »

No. Stating that God doesn't exist is a faith position, because there is no way of knowing whether this is true. Have an old think about it before you or anyone replies.

You clearly do not understand the definition of atheism.

constance tench

smash wrote: »

There's nothing to understand. Someone wrote in a book "God exists" and others blindly followed. It was words written in a book, by men who had extremely limited education, in order to control the population. Over the past few centuries, the stories written in the book have been proved to be false yet people still seem to believe. But not only do they believe, they've decided to pick and choose what they want to believe from the book. Hypocrisy in it's highest form.

OK, for you there is nothing to understand.

Saipanne

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

You don't have to state that God doesn't exist to be an atheist. All you have to do is not believe that God exists. This is a major distinction.

What do you call a group who state that there is no God?

lazygal

shruikan2553 wrote: »

And biscuits.

And the great Hawaiin pizza debate.

davidfitz22

I'm an athiest and i'll be honest, I have met more dickhead athiests than religous people, but it is just the neckbeard type who feel they are somehow more intelligent by declaring themselves as an athiest. As someone already said, it's the person not their belief that defines how they project.

Saipanne

o1s1n wrote: »

You clearly do not understand the definition of atheism.

No, you dont.

Wow, that was easy.

Kiwi in IE

Saipanne wrote: »

No. Stating that God doesn't exist is a faith position, because there is no way of knowing whether this is true. Have an old think about it before you or anyone replies.

OK I thought about it. Is stating that flying purple unicorns don't exist also a 'faith based position'? Think about that!

I agree there is no way of knowing whether or not a God exists but that in itself is a fact. Saying that one does exist is not a fact it requires belief. (I differentiate here between 'a god' and God).

Baggy Trousers

davidfitz22 wrote: »

I'm an athiest and i'll be honest, I have met more dickhead athiests than religous people, but it is just the neckbeard type who feel they are somehow more intelligent by declaring themselves as an athiest. As someone already said, it's the person not their belief that defines how they project.

Do you keep a count?

Hermy

God exists but only in peoples heads in much the same way that the tooth fairy or Santa Claus exists in children's imaginations. It's all make believe. I wouldn't wish to spoil the magic of Christmas for a child but why I have to treat adults who believe in gods and other such nonsense in much the same way is just beyond me.

o1s1n

Saipanne wrote: »

What do you call a group who state that there is no God?

Enlightened? :pac:

smash

constance tench wrote: »

OK, for you there is nothing to understand.

Of course there's nothing for me to understand. What is there possibly to try and understand which would lead me to a a belief in a god? Give me an example...

Saipanne

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

OK I thought about it. Is stating that flying purple unicorns don't exist also a 'faith based position'? Think about that!

I agree there is no way of knowing whether or not a God exists but that in itself is a fact. Saying that one does exist is not a fact it requires belief.

Yes.

o1s1n

Saipanne wrote: »

No, you dont.

Wow, that was easy.

Read this post again.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=93742720&postcount=304

Ghost Buster

mrsbyrne wrote: »

Who said my beliefs are "easily" mocked ? If its not ok to say to a vegetarian "I think your an idiot/stupid/thick because you don't like to eat meat and I think your vegetarian handbook is a pile of crap" then why is it ok to say " I think your beliefs make you an idiot/stupid/thick and your Bible/Koran/siddur is a pile of crap?"

If they are beliefs based on the bible then they are easily mocked . I know as Ive read it more than once. Ive yet to see this vegetarian handbook you mention.

Maximus Alexander

Saipanne wrote: »

What do you call a group who state that there is no God?

I would call them atheists.

Are you familiar with the notion of subsets?

Here:

Venn diagram.

All B are atheists. A are people who state that there is no God.

Michael OBrien

keithclancy wrote: »

No, Athiest means they believe no god at all.

Not believing in a god is not the same as believing there is no god. I have no idea if some kind of god like entity exists, I just don't believe the humans that tell me they know a certain type exists and have special knowledge about what it wants when they have nothing to support their assertions but arrogance and some book that was written by someone else or group of people.

Baggy Trousers

keithclancy wrote: »

No, Athiest means they believe no god at all.

I know I know. Tongue in cheek.

People, the spelling is atheist - dont let the subject put you off!

kneemos

Saipanne wrote: »

What do you call a group who state that there is no God?

Wrong.

Delirium

kneemos wrote: »

Wrong.

:pac:

o1s1n

kneemos wrote: »

Wrong.

I preferred my answer :pac:

Ghost Buster

keithclancy wrote: »

No, Athiest means they believe no god at all.

Unless one of the gods they don't believe in is the one true god ;-)

Saipanne

o1s1n wrote: »

Read this post again.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=93742720&postcount=304

I responded. Do you have any thoughts, hopes, dreams of your own?

Michael OBrien

Hermy wrote: »

God exists but only in peoples heads in much the same way that the tooth fairy or Santa Claus exists in children's imaginations. It's all make believe. I wouldn't wish to spoil the magic of Christmas for a child but why I have to treat adults who believe in gods and other such nonsense in much the same way is just beyond me.

That is the concept of god, not god. Such concepts exist all right.
Ontological arguments often mix these two different things up.

constance tench

smash wrote: »

Of course there's nothing for me to understand. What is there possibly to try and understand which would lead me to a a belief in a god? Give me an example...

Not 'a god'... god.

Scientific discovery may be the discovery of aspects of 'god'....and I'm not talking beardy man in the sky stuff here.

Zubeneschamali

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Are you familiar with the notion of subsets?

Whoa, easy up an that mathematics stuff, buddy, we're not all atheists here!

TheChizler

Saipanne wrote: »

What do you call a group who state that there is no God?

Gnostic atheists. Which is rare and many would agree an illogical position.

Baggy Trousers

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Whoa, easy up an that mathematics stuff, buddy, we're not all atheists here!

o1s1n

Saipanne wrote: »

I responded. Do you have any thoughts, hopes, dreams of your own?

I do. I dream of continuing to live out a great life on this earth with my friends and family before I kick the bucket and my time is up.

That's a fairly decent thought/hope/dream to have. I don't see the need to bring the supernatural into it.

Saipanne

o1s1n wrote: »

I do. I dream of continuing to live out a great life on this earth with my friends and family before I kick the bucket and my time is up.

That's a fairly decent thought/hope/dream to have. I don't see the need to bring the supernatural into it.

Good for you. God bless you.

Saipanne

TheChizler wrote: »

Gnostic atheists. Which is rare and many would agree an illogical position.

Never heard that one.

kneemos

kneemos wrote: »

Atheism is flawed logic as it rules out the possibility of the unexplained and as any scientist will tell you their whole life is devoted to the unexplained.

Ahhh no.

Said as an atheist with Science and Computer Science Degrees

RDM_83 again

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Yeah but A&A is not a random sample of atheists. It's a sample of people who are atheists who want to spend time talking about atheism. That's a much more specific group of people.

I there is a reason I said atheists you know are atheists

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

This may be true in some cases in regard to issues like abortion, equal marriage and other similar issues of social justice/rights. This is most likely because religion is the root cause of these rights being restricted and because we do not subscribe to religion we share a lack of religious based opposition. Still it is not the case that all atheists will agree that such rights should be granted to all.

Are they though? I can see how certain religious views would relate to positions of these issues but to assign religion as the root cause is at best uncertain. There have been numerous deeply anti-theist societies in the recent past that have placed severe restrictions of some of these things.
Also there is the trend to be quiet strongly left economically and quite socially liberal, neither of which are views that are "naturally atheist", my view is that the reason presumptions are made about atheists is because in a broad stroke sense if an Irish atheist tells you they are an atheist from their cultural background you can often make some quite accurate assumptions of their views.

Doctor Jimbob

Saipanne wrote: »

Good for you. God bless you.

This kind of thing here is every bit as obnoxious as the type of atheist the OP is complaining about.

Ghost Buster

constance tench wrote: »

OK, for you there is nothing to understand.

Theres lots to understand. Thats why we go to school, read books, watch documentarys, become scientists and such. Simply saying God Diddit is the antithesis of understanding and simply wishy washy mystical cobblers

Hermy

Michael OBrien wrote: »

That is the concept of god, not god.

Can you explain this?

TheChizler

Saipanne wrote: »

Never heard that one.

Most haven't. Those who have generally have taken the time to look into these things.

Useful chart.

keithclancy

Michael OBrien wrote: »

Not believing in a god is not the same as believing there is no god. I have no idea if some kind of god like entity exists, I just don't believe the humans that tell me they know a certain type exists and have special knowledge about what it wants when they have nothing to support their assertions but arrogance and some book that was written by someone else or group of people.

I'm talking purely about the definition of the word.

If you believe in one or many 'Gods' then you are not an Atheist
If you do not believe in a God then you are an Atheist

God
ɡäd/
noun
1.
(in Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.
synonyms: the Lord, the Almighty, the Creator, the Maker, the Godhead; More
2.
(in certain other religions) a superhuman being or spirit worshiped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity.
"a moon god"
synonyms: deity, goddess, divine being, celestial being, divinity, immortal, avatar
"sacrifices to appease the gods"

Saipanne

TheChizler wrote: »

Most haven't. Those who have generally have taken the time to look into these things.

Useful chart.

No thanks.

Kiwi in IE

Saipanne wrote: »

Yes.

Yes not believing in flying purple unicorns is a faith based position? What about not believing in Santa? So if I tell you there is a flying purple unicorn that lives in my shed who has the responsibility of proof? Is it my job to provide evidence that it does exist or yours to prove it dosn't? There is no proof that a god exists, theists are not able to provide evidence for the existence of one, therefore not believing in one does not require any 'faith'.

Michael OBrien

TheChizler wrote: »

Gnostic atheists. Which is rare and many would agree an illogical position.

Only if it refers to any type of god, but the poster has capitalised it as God, which is usually referring to the abrahamic gods, which most definitely don't exist. You can be gnostic towards obvious false claims and agnostic towards vague claims that have nothing to analyse the probabilities with. The god of the bible is simply a local tribal god blown out of all proportions by its followers, and if the bible is taken as read, looks like us, lives in the sky over a flat earth with a crystal dome with two conflicting origin stories that are flawed beyond belief (pun intended). The modernised version by 'enlightened' christians is so nebulous in its attributes that it is self refuting.

Saipanne

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

This kind of thing here is every bit as obnoxious as the type of atheist the OP is complaining about.

Jesus loves you, my son.

Saipanne

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Yes not believing in flying purple unicorns is a faith based position? What about not believing in Santa? So if I tell you there is a flying purple unicorn that lives in my shed who has the responsibility of proof? Is it my job to provide evidence that it does exist or yours to prove it dosn't? There is no proof that a god exists, therefore not believing in one does not require any 'faith'.

All yes.

o1s1n

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

This kind of thing here is every bit as obnoxious as the type of atheist the OP is complaining about.

Don't worry, I took it as being genuine and not obnoxious sarcasm. Us atheists always see the good in people like that

Doctor Jimbob

Saipanne wrote: »

Jesus loves you, my son.

Tell him I'm flattered, but I don't swing that way :pac:

Baggy Trousers

Saipanne wrote: »

Jesus loves you, my son.

I think you have lost the argument Saipanne.

Saipanne

o1s1n wrote: »

Don't worry, I took it as being genuine and not obnoxious sarcasm. Us atheists always see the good in people like that

I will pray for your soul.