if we ever had a terrorist attack in ireland ??

yipeeeee

Cant Handle The Banter wrote: »

Doubt it. The muslims have bigger fish to fry.

Very naive attitude.

These lads don't need a big reason and are only waiting to make a name for themselves.

padd b1975

Gatling wrote: »

Bombs triggered by remote and shootings but no sustained assault on civilians

Are you sure about that??

Jawgap

yipeeeee wrote: »

Very naive attitude.

These lads don't need a big reason and are only waiting to make a name for themselves.

Not really, of you think we are a target you misunderstand what they are about.

Take yesterday's terrible events - two lads with AK-47s in the centre of Paris could have killed a lot more than 10 people if they wanted - they didn't because they wanted the propaganda value of the act to resonate.

There's nothing of comparable propaganda value, nor nothing they value propaganda-wise here.

Kermit.de.frog

Highflyer13 wrote: »

Ah yes, the auld Sinn Fein dig. No political affiliation here but you FG idiots really annoy the hell out of me. Latest thing is your T.Ds are being told not to go on Vincent Browne to debate. Your obviously running scared from SF.

You what!? I support the Amphibians party i'll have you know. Tiocfaidh ár lá!

yipeeeee

Jawgap wrote: »

Not really, of you think we are a target you misunderstand what they are about.

Take yesterday's terrible events - two lads with AK-47s in the centre of Paris could have killed a lot more than 10 people if they wanted - they didn't because they wanted the propaganda value of the act to resonate.

There's nothing of comparable propaganda value, nor nothing they value propaganda-wise here.

And our use of Shannon to refuel planes on their way to bomb **** out of middle east countries not too mentioned illegally transporting lads picked up isn't a good propaganda opportunity for them?

Come on.

Jawgap

yipeeeee wrote: »

And our use of Shannon to refuel planes on their way to bomb **** out of middle east countries not too mentioned illegally transporting lads picked up isn't a good propaganda opportunity for them?

Come on.

Nope - it's just an airport.

The US or UK embassies maybe, but if you can get this far and you want to strike at American air power why not go to the UK and have a pop at one the USAF bases there, or the bases in Germany, where some of the units involved in carrying out the actual attacks are home-based?

EDIT: Shannon is just used for 'ass & trash' airlift not as a staging point for attack aircraft.

wp_rathead

Wasn't one of the heroes of the Kenyan Shopping Centre massacre Irish?

wp_rathead

Jawgap wrote: »

Nope - it's just an airport.

The US or UK embassies maybe, but if you can get this far and you want to strike at American air power why not go to the UK and have a pop at one the USAF bases there, or the bases in Germany, where some of the units involved in carrying out the actual attacks are home-based?

EDIT: Shannon is just used for 'ass & trash' airlift not as a staging point for attack aircraft.

Used to transfer detainees also afaik

Gatling

padd b1975 wrote: »

Are you sure about that??

Yes unless somebody quotes 1916 or the civil war

Señor Fancy Pants

yipeeeee wrote: »

Would our allowance of the use of Shannon make us potential targets someday maybe?

Ah, sure anything can make you a target nowadays! It's ridiculous.

In 2004, a guy with links to al-Qaeda went into the Israeli embassy in Dublin and took a sketch of the ground floor. Could that make us a legitimate target from Israel? As we "failed" to prevent intel gathering that could potentially be used to harm Israeli citizens?

In relation to where our troops serve overseas and under what banner, that could make us targets from various groups too. It's ridiculous but could happen. We have annoyed any number of rebel groups over the years....al-Qaeda, Hizbollah, Janjaweed, R.U.F, Taliban. Troops are deployed in Asia, Middle East, Africa and Europe. There is a lot of exposure there which could result in idiotic reprisals from people that don't like what we are doing.

Even the fact that some Irish based firms manufacture and export billions worth of "dual use" components that can be used for civilian commercial and / or military use.

There really is no end to what can make you a target nowadays.

padd b1975

Gatling wrote: »

Yes unless somebody quotes 1916 or the civil war

Enniskillen or Omagh mean anything to you?

Jawgap

wprathead wrote: »

Used to transfer detainees also afaik

Yes, it still has zero propaganda value.

If you can get someone to the perimeter of Shannon to attack it, you can get them to the perimeter of Heathrow or Stansted (which was also used for rendition flights)

oppenheimer1

Jawgap wrote: »

We are grand, sure aren't we being touted by the Muslim world as an example to follow when it comes to blasphemy legislation (the reason why no Charlie Hebdo cartoons were on the front of any Irish papers this morning).......




.......and the government have said they've no plans to change the constitution!

Why would the government change the constitution? The law will stay since it helps protect Ireland from the likes of what happened in Paris.

somefeen

In fairness to the Ranger wing, I doubt they'd be suited and booted in time to make any real difference. Sounds like the attack in paris was over very quickly, it would be up to the ERU to catch them afterwards.

Gatling

padd b1975 wrote: »

Enniskillen or Omagh mean anything to you?

Remote triggered bombs not sustained attacks

Gatling

somefeen wrote: »

In fairness to the Ranger wing, I doubt they'd be suited and booted in time to make any real difference. Sounds like the attack in paris was over very quickly, it would be up to the ERU to catch them afterwards.

A few mins flight time from the curragh

billyhead

These extremists would have no problem with attacking us here. Sure Irish society has gone very multi cultural with more Americans, British and French people now living here. They just want to make a statement and gather as much publicity as possible with these attacks and wouldn't care when or where it takes place in the west.

Jawgap

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Why would the government change the constitution? The law will stay since it helps protect Ireland from the likes of what happened in Paris.

Seriously, a law against blasphemy is just a law against superstition......

BBJBIG

Gatling wrote: »

We've some very capable Army Rangers who would deal with this type of situation's .

Bet yis heard dat on de barsthools over dere in Ingiland.
Tis roigh up dere wit "de bhest little cuntry in de wurld" says de barfly
Paddy to de left of ya cryin into his beer an rememberin "de gud Ol
Toimes" back in sunny Oireland.

Hic Hic Hic ... :pac:

Kermit.de.frog

We're safe now.

http://www.thejournal.ie/kevin-vickers-ambassador-ireland-1872082-Jan2015/

Señor Fancy Pants

Jawgap wrote: »

Yes, it still has zero propaganda value.

If you can get someone to the perimeter of Shannon to attack it, you can get them to the perimeter of Heathrow or Stansted (which was also used for rendition flights)

While I do agree with your thought process, it is not as solid as you think. Propaganda is a wonderful tool for gaining followers. These guys indeed could have killed more people yesterday but they wanted to get in, kill, get out and live to do it again. It was a simple and effective plan which was smoothly executed.....unfortunately.

If propaganda was the sole purpose of this event, I believe a larger group would have inserted into the building, locked it down and awaited a multi hour stand off. Ultimately killing as many people as possible. That would be more effective.

To the lazy terrorist, Shannon is a softer, more accessible target which would yield almost the same amount of propaganda but with a much less chance of retaliation from Ireland. We are not as internationally dispersed or as militarily equipped as the US / UK.

oppenheimer1

Jawgap wrote: »

Seriously, a law against blasphemy is just a law against superstition......

That may be so, but when you've got people who take these insults very seriously I would think it's better not to provoke. I bet the thinking I'd the same in government.

You have to ask is insulting Islam worth the lives of 12 people?

Gatling

BBJBIG wrote: »

Bet yis heard dat on de barsthools over dere in Ingiland.
Tis roigh up dere wit "de bhest little cuntry in de wurld" says de barfly
Paddy to de left of ya cryin into his beer an rememberin "de gud Ol
Toimes" back in sunny Oireland.

Hic Hic Hic ... :pac:

In English please

Señor Fancy Pants

Gatling wrote: »

A few mins flight time from the curragh

Not exactly.

The ARW won't be the first to be deployed. There are other security entities which will be called upon first. Once the perceived threat escalates, so does the expertise. This all affects timelines.

It could well be over even before regular AGS member got there, never mind RSU, then ARW......especially if it happens in say Cork.

Gatling

Truffle Pig wrote: »

Not exactly.

The ARW won't be the first to be deployed. There are other security entities which will be called upon first. Once the perceived threat escalates, so does the expertise.

It could well be over even before regular AGS member got there, never mind RSU, then ARW......especially if it happens in say Cork.

Neither of us can say for sure

Jawgap

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

That may be so, but when you've got people who take these insults very seriously I would think it's better not to provoke. I bet the thinking I'd the same in government.

You have to ask is insulting Islam worth the lives of 12 people?

Well I think you're just being provocative - if we consent to a law that promotes and protects superstitions, what next?

Change the law if the same people pronounce our lifestyle too decadent because we allow the consumption of alcohol, allow dancing, gambling, women to drive, go out accompanied?

9de5q7tsr8u2im

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

That may be so, but when you've got people who take these insults very seriously I would think it's better not to provoke. I bet the thinking I'd the same in government.

You have to ask is insulting Islam worth the lives of 12 people?

No but when muslims mock the christ do us christians end any human life or do anything about it? Absolutely **** all

Rhys Essien

billyhead wrote: »

These extremists would have no problem with attacking us here. Sure Irish society has gone very multi cultural with more Americans, British and French people now living here. They just want to make a statement and gather as much publicity as possible with these attacks and wouldn't care when or where it takes place in the west.

Christ,do you go to sleep with a flak jacket on or what.Will we wait till they attack San Marino,Liechtenstein and Andorra first.They have as much chance.

You may as well finished by saying 'All muslims are baddies'.

Collie D

punisher5112 wrote: »

Op if you mean leaving out the troubles and take into account the types of attacks now, nothing would be done as the country is so pc and everybody is afraid to say how they feel or be branded a racist.
.

Right...so if there was a Paris type situation you think the cops wouldn't defend civilians or themselves for fear of looking racist?

Jesus, liberals really have you right wingers ****ting yourselves.

Jawgap

Truffle Pig wrote: »

While I do agree with your thought process, it is not as solid as you think. Propaganda is a wonderful tool for gaining followers. These guys indeed could have killed more people yesterday but they wanted to get in, kill, get out and live to do it again. It was a simple and effective plan which was smoothly executed.....unfortunately.

If propaganda was the sole purpose of this event, I believe a larger group would have inserted into the building, locked it down and awaited a multi hour stand off. Ultimately killing as many people as possible. That would be more effective.

To the lazy terrorist, Shannon is a softer, more accessible target which would yield almost the same amount of propaganda but with a much less chance of retaliation from Ireland. We are not as internationally dispersed or as militarily equipped as the US / UK.

Propaganda is always the objective of the terrorist - and propaganda relies on symbolism and icons. We have no symbols or icons worth attacking, again with the possible exception of certain embassies and consular staff.

somefeen

Truffle Pig wrote: »

Not exactly.

The ARW won't be the first to be deployed. There are other security entities which will be called upon first. Once the perceived threat escalates, so does the expertise. This all affects timelines.

It could well be over even before regular AGS member got there, never mind RSU, then ARW......especially if it happens in say Cork.

Ah shur if it happens in Cork sure we'll have it sorted long before the Guards hear about it.

Gatling

Jawgap wrote: »

Propaganda is always the objective of the terrorist - and propaganda relies on symbolism and icons. We have no symbols or icons worth attacking, again with the possible exception of certain embassies and consular staff.

Imagine certain brands been attacked such as our various alcohol producers

Señor Fancy Pants

Gatling wrote: »

Neither of us can say for sure

I'm pretty confident that the first response to an event is the AGS then the DF.

Boring username

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

That may be so, but when you've got people who take these insults very seriously I would think it's better not to provoke. I bet the thinking I'd the same in government.

You have to ask is insulting Islam worth the lives of 12 people?

And this is exactly the type of appeasement the terrorists are hoping to achieve. To get people like yourself so terrified of the Islamic bogeyman that you would rather keep quiet than challenge their absurd logic, and bully the West into keeping quiet. Whether you realise it or not, you are already discussing surrender with a post like this. And surrender is most certainly not an option now-otherwise the vacuum will the filled by the extreme right across Europe, and they are already knocking on the door.
The West is now in a state of total war with Islamic fundamentalism. Yesterday was the game changer for an entire generation. The real uncomfortable question here is whether Islam is compatible with Western values once you scratch the surface.

wendell borton

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Why would the government change the constitution? The law will stay since it helps protect Ireland from the likes of what happened in Paris.

What so should give into the will of raving nutjobs, the more you give in to them the more they'll take.

Jawgap

Gatling wrote: »

Imagine certain brands been attacked such as our various alcohol producers

We're not the only ones who produce booze. If you want to attack alcohol and decadence, wouldn't something like Champagne producers be more symbolic target?

Señor Fancy Pants

Jawgap wrote: »

Propaganda is always the objective of the terrorist - and propaganda relies on symbolism and icons. We have no symbols or icons worth attacking, again with the possible exception of certain embassies and consular staff.

I don't personally believe Shannon is worth attacking either. I do believe that it is a possible soft and accessible target for possible anti U.S terror groups to take a cheap shot at a military flight, irregardless of what it is being used for.

Do you really think a U.S aircraft is not an icon that can be used for propaganda purposes? It really doesn't need to be a high valued target like an embassy. An embassy might be a more effective target alright. It really depends what the potential terrorist feels up to.

Paz-CCFC

Gatling wrote: »

Imagine certain brands been attacked such as our various alcohol producers

The Middleton Distillery and St James' Gate are right up there with the Twin Towers and the Pentagon as beacons of Western culture in the crossheirs of religious extremists.

Dont worry, Enda has it sorted!

Rhys Essien

Boring username wrote: »

And this is exactly the type of appeasement the terrorists are hoping to achieve. To get people like yourself so terrified of the Islamic bogeyman that you would rather keep quiet than challenge their absurd logic, and bully the West into keeping quiet. Whether you realise it or not, you are already discussing surrender with a post like this. And surrender is most certainly not an option now-otherwise the vacuum will the filled by the extreme right across Europe, and they are already knocking on the door.
The West is now in a state of total war with Islamic fundamentalism. Yesterday was the game changer for an entire generation. The real uncomfortable question here is whether Islam is compatible with Western values once you scratch the surface.

More and more muslims will start to see the funny side of things in time.Its inevitable.If you tried to show Father Ted during 1950's Ireland,there would have been people burned at the stake.
There are very high populations of people under 30 in a lot of muslim countries who are not so serious about Islam as their elders.50/100 years time will see big changes.

reprise

Boring username wrote: »

And this is exactly the type of appeasement the terrorists are hoping to achieve. To get people like yourself so terrified of the Islamic bogeyman that you would rather keep quiet than challenge their absurd logic, and bully the West into keeping quiet. Whether you realise it or not, you are already discussing surrender with a post like this. And surrender is most certainly not an option now-otherwise the vacuum will the filled by the extreme right across Europe, and they are already knocking on the door.
The West is now in a state of total war with Islamic fundamentalism. Yesterday was the game changer for an entire generation. The real uncomfortable question here is whether Islam is compatible with Western values once you scratch the surface.

What are the policies of the "extreme right"? any examples?

Jawgap

Truffle Pig wrote: »

I don't personally believe Shannon is worth attacking either. I do believe that it is a possible soft and accessible target for possible anti U.S terror groups to take a cheap shot at a military flight, irregardless of what it is being used for.

Do you really think a U.S aircraft is not an icon that can be used for propaganda purposes? It really doesn't need to be a high valued target like an embassy. An embassy might be a more effective target alright. It really depends what the potential terrorist feels up to.

No, I think it (an aircraft) is a significant target, but as I said if you can get to Shannon you get to any number of USAF bases around Europe and the UK. If you are going to take out a US aircraft, why bother with a contract or converted civil airliner when there are strike, reconnaissance and incredibly valuable and almost irreplaceable ISTAR aircraft that could be hit?

Señor Fancy Pants

Jawgap wrote: »

No, I think it (an aircraft) is a significant target, but as I said if you can get to Shannon you get to any number of USAF bases around Europe and the UK. If you are going to take out a US aircraft, why bother with a contract or converted civil airliner when there are strike, reconnaissance and incredibly valuable and almost irreplaceable ISTAR aircraft that could be hit?

Yeah I understand what you are saying. Taking out ISTAR assets would obviously be a much stronger propaganda tool than taking out a routine cargo flight in Shannon, it's not comparable. Much less chance of the perpetrators getting away though but I doubt that would be their concern.

BBJBIG

reprise wrote: »

What are the policies of the "extreme right"? any examples?

Water charges, NPPR (7,300+ Shamrocks penalty - laughable), LPT on top of huge Stamp Duty already paid, payin off greedy Bondholders (... hope they enjoy guzzlin their Champers in the City of London), hospital trollies and waiting lists, won't go on Vincent Browne show - scared sh1tless of the hard Questions, puttin de little peeple in Jail over TV licence and a criminal record ..... but not ONE Banker in Jail, politicians creamin off - 150,000 yoyos+ a Year (Index linked) for the likes of Biffo and that fool Bertie, people dying on the streets etc etc .... and, that's just this Weeks News .... :pac:

Oireland is a Dictatorship, my friend, run by a bunch of Clowns for a Bunch of Clowns. And, always has been.

Boring username

Rhys Essien wrote: »

More and more muslims will start to see the funny side of things in time.Its inevitable.If you tried to show Father Ted during 1950's Ireland,there would have been people burned at the stake.
There are very high populations of people under 30 in a lot of muslim countries who are not so serious about Islam as their elders.50/100 years time will see big changes.

You know, for years I assumed this would be the case. That gradual Western mockery would ultimately desensitise Muslim opinion, and we could all just get along relatively peacefully. Unfortunately, this does not seem to be the case. If anything, we're seeing a hardening of Muslim opinion across the West. You only need to look at the numbers flocking to Syria to commit acts of violence.
Also, as dreadful as 50's Catholic Ireland was, even during the worst excesses of abuse and brutality, it isn't a drop in the ocean compared to what happened in Paris yesterday.

yipeeeee

Jawgap wrote: »

Propaganda is always the objective of the terrorist - and propaganda relies on symbolism and icons. We have no symbols or icons worth attacking, again with the possible exception of certain embassies and consular staff.

So what was the propaganda value of the Bali bombings?

I don't understand your point.
These lads kill for the sake of killing.

It's an eye for an eye with them.

By the way I never suggested Shannon would be targeted, my point is civilians could be targeted in retaliation for the use of Shannon.

PopePalpatine

LuckyDude12 wrote: »

No but when muslims mock the christ do us christians end any human life or do anything about it? Absolutely **** all

The thing is, Muslims view Jesus as a prophet and therefore would be just as unwilling to mock him as Mohammed.

Boring username

reprise wrote: »

What are the policies of the "extreme right"? any examples?

I understand they involve screaming loudly, wearing ridiculous clothing, and excusing acts of obscene violence. So not all that different from the extreme left really....

Jawgap

yipeeeee wrote: »

So what was the propaganda value of the Bali bombings?

I don't understand your point.
These lads kill for the sake of killing.

It's an eye for an eye with them.

By the way I never suggested Shannon would be targeted, my point is civilians could be targeted in retaliation for the use of Shannon.

Because it was 'westerners' using a Muslim country as a party destination. The film Long Road to Heaven covers it well - the bombing was designed to maximise western casualties, while minimising the risk to locals. If they were interested in maximising the body count they would've focused on placing the bombs elsewhere than the two bars. Before Bali, Indonesian terrorism focused on internal issues and attacks ignored foreigners.

The whole point isn't that they are psychopaths killing for the sake of killing - the violence is political, it's the application of force to make a political point. If they can at the same time provoke a crackdown that's the bonus.

keeponhurling

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

To be perfectly honest I doubt many extremists apart from Sinn Féin could point Ireland out on a map.

No, I'm pretty sure the catholic church knows where Ireland is.

Am I doing this right ?