if we ever had a terrorist attack in ireland ??

riffmongous

JPCN1 wrote: »

I think you are quite right, we're complacent here. The new Jewish museum better have good security so it doesn't end up like Mumbai where the folk inside were tortured, mutilated horribly and then murdered. We're dealing with a whole new type of evil with some of these guys.

Nothing new at all sadly, never hear of the Romper Rooms in Belfast? Or the IRA nutting squad?

Señor Fancy Pants

skooterblue2 wrote: »

I stand corrected

http://www.politics.ie/forum/defence/118570-irish-army-training-excercise-donegal-didnt-know-they-had-them-3.html

That was hearsay rather than gospel.

I was very blunt in my last post, my apologies.

Charles Taylor was caught at the border of Nigeria, trying to bail into Cameroon. He was arrested and flown back to Liberia and handed over to the authorities. It was UNMIL's responsibility to secure the airport in Monrovia to make sure he made it to Sierra Leone by helicopter. The Operation was called Kilbride.

We were further detailed to travel to Freetown in Sierra Leone for a week to guard the compound where he was being held. That operation was called Landsdowne. There was a very high chance of an attempt to either kill him or to free him. He was subsequently flown to The Haigue to stand trial for his atrocities.

I was part of mission myself and was involved in both Operations. ARW personnel were also part of it but not as a sole entity.

DarkyHughes

riffmongous wrote: »

Nothing new at all sadly, never hear of the Romper Rooms in Belfast? Or the IRA nutting squad?

I heard of the Romper Rooms & the Shankill Butchers, but not a nutting squad, I heard of a IRA group called "the unknowns"

skooterblue2

If there ever was a Muslim terrorist attack here They would be castigated internationally for attacking a neutral country.

Muslims would have to leave en masse, there would be no comeback from it

JPCN1

skooterblue2 wrote: »

If there ever was a Muslim terrorist attack here They would be castigated internationally for attacking a neutral country.

Muslims would have to leave en masse, there would be no comeback from it

Forgive me but I think that's naive. I don't think the Fundies give a toss about castigation from anyone. We're dhimmi infidels too so technically not neutral!

riffmongous

DarkyHughes wrote: »

I heard of the Romper Rooms & the Shankill Butchers, but not a nutting squad, I heard of a IRA group called "the unknowns"

They were the anti-informer unit and would also interview people coming out of prison and police custody, iirc.

cena

We would be fecked

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

We would send in Enda Kenny to negotiate with the terrorists. Then all will be fine.

If it turns into a debate though, he's gone like a hot snot :pac:

uck51js9zml2yt

We could put Dustin and Dana on the front line. They're bound to scare them muzzie fundamentalists aaway.

skooterblue2

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/us-use-of-shannon-airport-makes-ireland-a-target-anjem-choudary-1.2060258

Well not news but is this supposed to be some sort of warning shot across the bows?

This deal that is done over Shannon has nothing to do with the Irish army or the Irish Civilian populations.
To call Jihad on the Irish population would cause serious civil out cry at home and internationally

Jawgap

skooterblue2 wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/us-use-of-shannon-airport-makes-ireland-a-target-anjem-choudary-1.2060258

Well not news but is this supposed to be some sort of warning shot across the bows?

This deal that is done over Shannon has nothing to do with the Irish army or the Irish Civilian populations.
To call Jihad on the Irish population would cause serious civil out cry at home and internationally

I don't think any strike aircraft deploying out of the US have come through Shannon - only personnel and some cargo.

Mackas_view

Jawgap wrote: »

I don't think any strike aircraft deploying out of the US have come through Shannon - only personnel and some cargo.

No not to the best of my knowledge but personnel carriers have. I agree with him that we lost our neutrality when we agreed to this. There's no ifs or buts about it. We aid them in their journey to Iraq and afghan to fight.
For me it's very black and white.

fryup

maybe the OP should rephrase it,

if we had a hijack situation in ireland?? .. involving a large amount of civilians in a built up area would we cope?? are the gaurds up to scratch for such a scenario??

Mackas_view

fryup wrote: »

maybe the OP should rephrase it,

if we had a hijack situation in ireland?? .. involving a large amount of civilians in a built up area would we cope?? are the gaurds up to scratch for such a scenario??

I think yes. I think the elite of the DF and AGS working together would deal with it well.

I think we need to take a look at our security measure though. Big need for reform IMO

Menas

Vincenzo Attractive Racquetball wrote: »

We could put Dustin and Dana on the front line. They're bound to scare them muzzie fundamentalists aaway.

Dana has first hand experience of Terrorism. Remember when the tyres on her car were allegedly slashed in an act of terrorism?
Or was that a blow out?

mrsoundie

Trigger Happy wrote: »

Dana has first hand experience of Terrorism. Remember when the tyres on her car were allegedly slashed in an act of terrorism?
Or was that a blow out?

The electorate gave her a blow out, the car had punctures.

Jawgap

Mackas_view wrote: »

No not to the best of my knowledge but personnel carriers have. I agree with him that we lost our neutrality when we agreed to this. There's no ifs or buts about it. We aid them in their journey to Iraq and afghan to fight.
For me it's very black and white.

How can we lose something we never had?

We're not neutral, we never have been neutral.

ebbsy

fryup wrote: »

maybe the OP should rephrase it,

if we had a hijack situation in ireland?? .. involving a large amount of civilians in a built up area would we cope?? are the gaurds up to scratch for such a scenario??

It would depend if its raining or not, and whether there is a changeover in shift about to happen.

Mackas_view

Jawgap wrote: »

How can we lose something we never had?

We're not neutral, we never have been neutral.

Regardless of your opinion we declared ourselves neutral

Jawgap

Mackas_view wrote: »

Regardless of your opinion we declared ourselves neutral

When?

We never declared ourselves neutral......it's one of the great myths of our nationhood!

We're actually non-aligned.

LoganRice

We will have the wolves to deal with this problem

Mackas_view

Jawgap wrote: »

When?

We never declared ourselves neutral......it's one of the great myths of our nationhood!

We're actually non-aligned.

It's possible you could be right and if you are I stand corrected. I was of the understanding that we declared neutral during the Second World War and have been ever since

Jawgap

Mackas_view wrote: »

It's possible you could be right and if you are I stand corrected. I was of the understanding that we declared neutral during the Second World War and have been ever since

Some more info here......

http://doras.dcu.ie/14903/

There's also Trevor Salmon’s 'Unneutral Ireland.'

Mackas_view

Jawgap wrote: »

Some more info here......

http://doras.dcu.ie/14903/

There's also Trevor Salmon’s 'Unneutral Ireland.'

So by the definition of the word we're not. But we've never aligned ourselves with anyone or went on an offensive against another nation so that would still make us somewhat neutral no?

It's a very arguable topic.

Jawgap

Mackas_view wrote: »

So by the definition of the word we're not. But we've never aligned ourselves with anyone or went on an offensive against another nation so that would still make us somewhat neutral no?

It's a very arguable topic.

It's not really - if a country is to be neutral, it needs to be able to enforce and protect that neutrality against outside threats. We have a professional Defence Force, but we can't protect our neutrality.

Plus we've signed up to just about every international body going, except NATO. Which is not necessarily a bad thing.

Mackas_view

Jawgap wrote: »

It's not really - if a country is to be neutral, it needs to be able to enforce and protect that neutrality against outside threats. We have a professional Defence Force, but we can't protect our neutrality.

Plus we've signed up to just about every international body going, except NATO. Which is not necessarily a bad thing.

What exactly do you mean by enforce and protect our neutrality?

thomas83

twincamman wrote: »

serious question ..if we ever had a terrorist attack in Ireland similar to paris..do we have the people to deal with it ? as in trained armed people

I think Ireland's reaction to a attack would be up to scratch...

A well know Muslim from the uk (Anjem Choudary)has quoted that Ireland is not a neutral country because we let American planes refuel in Shannon to continue there journey to the war..

He also said Ireland is on the radar for an attack

Scary stuff

Mackas_view

thomas83 wrote: »

I think Ireland's reaction to a attack would be up to scratch...

A well know Muslim from the uk (Anjem Choudary)has quoted that Ireland is not a neutral country because we let American planes refuel in Shannon to continue there journey to the war..

He also said Ireland is on the radar for an attack

Scary stuff

Exactly. It's time the government realise this an stepped things up.

Jawgap

Mackas_view wrote: »

What exactly do you mean by enforce and protect our neutrality?

That if another state rocked up of the coast of Dublin and wanted to invade, we couldn't stop them.

Likewise, if another state wanted to coerce us, then assuming they possessed the means it is unlikely we could resist without the assistance of other states.

Jawgap

thomas83 wrote: »

I think Ireland's reaction to a attack would be up to scratch...

A well know Muslim from the uk (Anjem Choudary)has quoted that Ireland is not a neutral country because we let American planes refuel in Shannon to continue there journey to the war..

He also said Ireland is on the radar for an attack

Scary stuff

Not really. 'Threat' is capacity combined with motivation - certain fanatical elements may well be motivated to strike at is, but they totally lack the capacity - and what limited capacity they do have they'd be more motivated to direct it towards other countries and institutions.

Stojkovic

Jawgap wrote: »

That if another state rocked up of the coast of Dublin and wanted to invade, we couldn't stop them.

The Brits would have blown them out of the water before they got within 100 miles of Dublin.

Assuming it wasnt the Brits who were invading lol.

gladrags

Kristopherus wrote: »

We've had terrorist attacks in Ireland since 1969. So we're well used to it.

1560's Cromwell

Mackas_view

Stojkovic wrote: »

The Brits would have blown them out of the water before they got within 100 miles of Dublin.

Assuming it wasnt the Brits who were invading lol.

Was just about to say this @Jawgap

Señor Fancy Pants

gladrags wrote: »

1560's Cromwell

Too soon dude, too soon!

Mackas_view

Jawgap wrote: »

Not really. 'Threat' is capacity combined with motivation - certain fanatical elements may well be motivated to strike at is, but they totally lack the capacity - and what limited capacity they do have they'd be more motivated to direct it towards other countries and institutions.

Disagree completely I think a homemade device is very easily made and planted just look at how man time the DF bomb disposal team get called out to pipe bombs etc. so emplacement doesn't seem to be a problem. It only takes a very small number of terrorists with the correct skills. Surely the north taught us that?

Jawgap

Mackas_view wrote: »

Disagree completely I think a homemade device is very easily made and planted just look at how man time the DF bomb disposal team get called out to pipe bombs etc. so emplacement doesn't seem to be a problem. It only takes a very small number of terrorists with the correct skills. Surely the north taught us that?

Yes, you know what else the North taught us? Even a well organised group is not an existential threat to an organised and democratic state.

As terrible, tragic and disturbing as the Paris attacks were, they were not an existential threat to the Fifth Republic - even if an attack like this was carried out every day, the Republic would still go on.

Mackas_view

Jawgap wrote: »

Yes, you know what else the North taught us? Even a well organised group is not an existential threat to an organised and democratic state.

As terrible, tragic and disturbing as the Paris attacks were, they were not an existential threat to the Fifth Republic - even if an attack like this was carried out every day, the Republic would still go on.

That still doesn't mean that a threat doesn't exist!

Jawgap

Mackas_view wrote: »

That still doesn't mean that a threat doesn't exist!

True, there's also a threat that the bees are going to die out in the next decade and we're going to starve.........

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20141230-apocalypse-when

There'll be many, many, many more people killed on our roads in the next year than will be killed by terrorist action.

Put it this way.......if you are Al Qaeda's Director of Ops and you can get or radicalise a group this far west to attack a facility........and (this is crucial) get them the means to carry out that attack and put it in their hands........do you attack a regional airport in Ireland used as a trans-Atlantic stopover for troops or do do you attack certain USAF air bases that are home to aircraft and special forces that have actually operated in the ME - or put it another way, which of those attacks carries the most kudos among your 'audience?

9de5q7tsr8u2im

dont even think about ireland going to war we'd get wiped out easily, we dont even have an army.. even the special forces wouldn't do f all, anyway we'd have to rely on maybe british/american troops if anything such chaotic happens

punisher5112

Well I was told before that I woulod be blown up from a certain someone out of a certain place in Dublin before.


I hope these things never happen here but we would be a very soft target.

Mackas_view

Jawgap wrote: »

True, there's also a threat that the bees are going to die out in the next decade and we're going to starve.........

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20141230-apocalypse-when

There'll be many, many, many more people killed on our roads in the next year than will be killed by terrorist action.

Put it this way.......if you are Al Qaeda's Director of Ops and you can get or radicalise a group this far west to attack a facility........and (this is crucial) get them the means to carry out that attack and put it in their hands........do you attack a regional airport in Ireland used as a trans-Atlantic stopover for troops or do do you attack certain USAF air bases that are home to aircraft and special forces that have actually operated in the ME - or put it another way, which of those attacks carries the most kudos among your 'audience?

I think your lookin at this on too large a scale. The threat of a lone wolf or small number of Muslims within the country here all ready is enough. Forget al Qaeda and it's director of ops. That's not the only threat that exists here.
The two lads that murdered lee rigby in London. Were they operation under orders from a director of ops. Two individuals who believe the bull**** calling of their Muslim brothers with a homemade device in a busy irish shopping center or an embassy is all it takes.

Jawgap

Mackas_view wrote: »

I think your lookin at this on too large a scale. The threat of a lone wolf or small number of Muslims within the country here all ready is enough. Forget al Qaeda and it's director of ops. That's not the only threat that exists here.
The two lads that murdered lee rigby in London. Were they operation under orders from a director of ops. Two individuals who believe the bull**** calling of their Muslim brothers with a homemade device in a busy irish shopping center or an embassy is all it takes.

Yes, and if you radicalised youth here which would be the best 'target' for them to attack?

What happened to that poor lad is a case in point - they could've picked anyone - a random individual, a police officer, even a judge or politician. They went for a soldier. As I said earlier in the thread, this is political violence carried out to make a point and send a message - embassies aside, there's no message to be sent by hitting a target here.

Mackas_view

Jawgap wrote: »

Yes, and if you radicalised youth here which would be the best 'target' for them to attack?

What happened to that poor lad is a case in point - they could've picked anyone - a random individual, a police officer, even a judge or politician. They went for a soldier. As I said earlier in the thread, this is political violence carried out to make a point and send a message - embassies aside, there's no message to be sent by hitting a target here.

Yes I agree to an extent but the other side is small factions may feel there is a message to be sent.

Say god forbid they did attack hoping for an end result of ireland not allowing the planes refuel anymore. Where else would refuel them who else would put their nation in jeoprady.

A perfectly good motive for the type of people we are talking about IMO

Jawgap

Mackas_view wrote: »

Yes I agree to an extent but the other side is small factions may feel there is a message to be sent.

Say god forbid they did attack hoping for an end result of ireland not allowing the planes refuel anymore. Where else would refuel them who else would put their nation in jeoprady.

A perfectly good motive for the type of people we are talking about IMO

Aldergrove for a start.......or Prestwick........or Mildenhall. Or if it really came to it, they could just lighten the loads the aircraft carry and go all the way non-stop to Ramstein.

The use of Shannon is convenient, but it's not essential.

Mackas_view

Jawgap wrote: »

Aldergrove for a start.......or Prestwick........or Mildenhall. Or if it really came to it, they could just lighten the loads the aircraft carry and go all the way non-stop to Ramstein.

The use of Shannon is convenient, but it's not essential.

I'm not so sure it would be so straight forward as that, it would obviously be subject to the extent of the carnage caused by an attack here.

UCDVet

Jawgap wrote: »

That if another state rocked up of the coast of Dublin and wanted to invade, we couldn't stop them.

Likewise, if another state wanted to coerce us, then assuming they possessed the means it is unlikely we could resist without the assistance of other states.

I agree with a lot of what your saying, but I don't think this part is relevant. It's just part of the modern world we live in...countries are very interconnected. A lot of other countries have a large financial interest in Ireland's well-being. Everyone in the EU, naturally, and the US (with the world's most expensive military - many times over) all care very much about Ireland, because they care about themselves.

Ireland's ability to defend itself includes it's ability to get aid from it's allies. I can't imagine a scenario where someone could invade Ireland without a large military response from Ireland AND others.

creolebelle

I would think ireland would be better prepared compared to other countries.
We live in a scary world

Jawgap

Mackas_view wrote: »

I'm not so sure it would be so straight forward as that, it would obviously be subject to the extent of the carnage caused by an attack here.

Not really, the second the Yanks decide it's more hassle than it's worth routing through here they'll send their aircraft elsewhere.

A Boeing 777er has a range of about 8,000 miles, and an A340 has a range of about 7,500 miles (both fully loaded).

East Coast USA to Shannon is about 3,200 miles - East Coast to Frankfurt is under 4,000 miles and East Coast to Kuwait is 6,500 miles.

Jawgap

UCDVet wrote: »

I agree with a lot of what your saying, but I don't think this part is relevant. It's just part of the modern world we live in...countries are very interconnected. A lot of other countries have a large financial interest in Ireland's well-being. Everyone in the EU, naturally, and the US (with the world's most expensive military - many times over) all care very much about Ireland, because they care about themselves.

Ireland's ability to defend itself includes it's ability to get aid from it's allies. I can't imagine a scenario where someone could invade Ireland without a large military response from Ireland AND others.

Well if you are involved in alliances and have allies who have agreed a mutual defence pact, are you not by definition completely incapable of being neutral?

Countries etc do have a lot invested here, so they could cone to our aid - but only because they'd be looking to protect their interests- would we get the same or any help if they had no interests here? They don't 'care' about Ireland, they care about what they have in Ireland.

skooterblue2

LuckyDude12 wrote: »

dont even think about ireland going to war we'd get wiped out easily, we dont even have an army.. even the special forces wouldn't do f all, anyway we'd have to rely on maybe british/american troops if anything such chaotic happens

If Ireland was going to war in the morning we would be fitting in as part of WEU battle plan. We have 13,000 approx depmanent defence for troops trained on some of the best equipement available. I think the Dept of Defence has bought very few turkeys (EG SA80's , UK Battle drones, US military software, M-16 (originals), Abrahms tanks (originals)) over the years. That is the advantage of a small army trained on the best equipent with an intelligent population, you can train them fast.

The day Ireland goes to War will be a sad day indeed and God keep it far from us. I like that it is Neutral, that we are respected as neutral and that both business and politics recognises this. I would say if it came up in a referundum tomorrow morning when the scales would balance up we would lose more than we would gain like Switzerland.

Special forces arent in the front lines they are usually behind the enemy lines in a war providing intelligence and distracting from where the real war is like (Taking out scuds in Iraq, Gathering information on mainland Argentina and obsering Airforce bases. Harrasing German troops in rural France, destroying and disabling ships using limpet mines in harbour, providing training and acting as advisors to the Taliban and Mujahadeen in Afghanistan.) that sort of thing. Irish Special forces are working the whole time.... they just dont make front page stuff is all.