How is private property defined in a business/industrial park?

euser1984

Seeing as a lot of the areas are commons (if this is the right word) and multiple owners, leased buildings etc.


Can I walk my dog without breaking any laws?

Thanks.

Lemlin

euser1984 wrote: »

Seeing as a lot of the areas are commons (if this is the right word) and multiple owners, leased buildings etc.


Can I walk my dog without breaking any laws?

Thanks.

Private property would be seen as any area that is blocked off to public access e.g. A car park that has gates and a fence around it.

the beer revolu

Most business parks are entirely on private property.
That's not to say that there'd be a problem walking your dog there, though.

euser1984

the beer revolu wrote: »

Most business parks are entirely on private property.
That's not to say that there'd be a problem walking your dog there, though.

Who owns the property if it's private?

tk123

euser1984 wrote: »

Who owns the property if it's private?

There's usually a management company.

Alun

I'm not sure of the legalities regarding dog walking, but IIRC for the purposes of e.g. traffic offences, privately owned areas like business parks can be considered as 'public places', i.e. the public can enter them freely. So if the regulations refer to 'public places' the normal rules may well apply even there.

seamus

Alun is correct. For the purposes of road traffic offences;

“‘public place’ means—

(a) any public road, and

(b) any street, road or other place to which the public have access with vehicles whether as of right or by permission and whether subject to or free of charge;”;

Since business parks are rarely, if ever, closed off from the public - many businesses will have customers coming in and out - then the roads in a business park or "public places" for this purpose.
As I understand it there are also specific provisions about public access if it's possible to use the premises as a rat run - i.e. it's connected to two different public roads.
Terenure College is a good example of this - you can enter the campus from one gate and drive through to access another road. They have to close one of their gates once a year in order to fulfill a legal obligation. If they don't close the gates once a year, some common law right of access comes into play and the public then has a right to free access to the campus.

So if the business parks connects to two public roads without gates, then there's probably a public right of way to enter the business park.

In terms of whether you can be done for trespassing if you bring your dog for a walk....not really. Criminal trespass, absolutely not. Criminal trespass requires an intent to cause damage or theft.
Civil trespass, unlikely, unless the property owner can prove some loss. If, for example, the property owner had to pay someone €1k a year to come out and fix their grass and clean up dog poo, you could find yourself liable for that bill. Assuming you don't clean up your dog poo, which you probably do

tk123

Worth mentioning too that more and more doggie businesses/vets are based in business parks/industrial estates so it's be perfectly normal to see dogs being walked in them. Rosemount and corp. park 2 in Blanch for example or Sandyford

Alun

I wonder if the rules for muzzling restricted breeds would apply in such 'public places'?

DBB

Alun wrote: »

I wonder if the rules for muzzling restricted breeds would apply in such 'public places'?

Yes, the law still applies for the same reasons... If the public has free access to a private area, it's considered to be "in public" across all legislation, not just the traffic stuff

euser1984

The reason I asked this first is because a guy was out smoking in front of one of the units (bigger than the rest and separate". He told me that I cannot be here because this is private property. He was behaving fairly suspiciously and my gsd ran over to him (he was working though - but it looked like he was loitering although just smoking and drinking a can of coke or something). The dog probably ran over because it was a bit of a strange site for her to see.

I asked him if he owned this place and he said no but they are working a night shift so I cannot have dogs in this private property. I won't go out of my way to approach that place again but incase anything like this ever happens again....I have to read all the complex stuff above now to find out if I can actually walk there or not :O

tk123

Is there a security hut or gates etc? Example - the park I work in has security and management and the place is immaculate, compared to say one near me where woodies and lidl is that's in disrepair. Unless it's security telling you to move on I'd ignore him / tell him you own a unit and are taking a break!

euser1984

tk123 wrote: »

Is there a security hut or gates etc? Example - the park I work in has security and management and the place is immaculate, compared to say one near me where woodies and lidl is that's in disrepair. Unless it's security telling you to move on I'd ignore him / tell him you own a unit and are taking a break!

Nope, nothing like that. I just want to make sure I have the right answer if it happens again.

I just had to say sorry and put the dogs back in the car and go.