Off Topic Thread too point uh

swiwi_

Pink Fairy wrote: »

If Sinn Fein couldn't make significant gains after the 2 most hated governments in the history of the country, its not ever going to happen for them

Nor should it. One look at the history of Sinn Fein should be enough.

They also fall into the loony left when it comes to real-world economics.

Every man (& woman) and his dog wants to get ahead financially in life. Telling people who are trying to make a go of it that we're going to take your hard-earned money and give it to people who aren't trying to make a go of it provides zero motivation. It's communism under another name, and it is proven not to work.

One thing I love about Switzerland is that is has zero tolerance for laziness or spoon-feeding, but if you're prepared to work hard, you will be rewarded for it.

errlloyd

Unfortunately it seems the only way to truly destroy a party is to make them a minority in a coalition. Labour, greens, and the PDs all got destroyed for being in government.

The only way to destroy sf is for someone to take them into govt. And no one will. So they're going to continue shouting populist nonsense and their bluff will never be called

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Pink Fairy wrote: »

If Sinn Fein couldn't make significant gains after the 2 most hated governments in the history of the country, its not ever going to happen for them

SF are a divisive party. You either give them your first choice or you don't vote for them at all, generally speaking.

I don't see the point in having another election a few months down the road. Will there magically be some new and better options available to us? FF and FG need to suck it up and act like adults who are running a country.

swiwi_

errlloyd wrote: »

Unfortunately it seems the only way to truly destroy a party is to make them a minority in a coalition. Labour, greens, and the PDs all got destroyed for being in government.

The only way to destroy sf is for someone to take them into govt. And no one will. So they're going to continue shouting populist nonsense and their bluff will never be called

I remember when I was biking in Dublin city centre once, on one of the Dublin bikes. Eamonn Ryan cut me off. Told him to effin look out where he was going, jeepers man you were the brains behind the bike scheme...

Felt a bit sheepish and contrite afterwards.

Buer

Pink Fairy wrote:

If Sinn Fein couldn't make significant gains after the 2 most hated governments in the history of the country, its not ever going to happen for them

I'd love it if you're right but I can see them getting into power in some capacity in the next 10 years. Look at their increases over the last few elections. They went from 5 to 14 and are going to be around the 20 mark this time if not a bit more.

Those sort of numbers make them very realistic coalition partners. I suspect the bigger boys will wait until Adams is gone so they can pretend they're viable partners.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

swiwi_ wrote: »

I remember when I was biking in Dublin city centre once, on one of the Dublin bikes. Eamonn Ryan cut me off. Told him to effin look out where he was going, jeepers man you were the brains behind the bike scheme...

Felt a bit sheepish and contrite afterwards.

It's a shame the Greens got so badly hit last time. They're the only party talking sense about the Water charges, can't abolish them but won't privatise them. They wanted to invest in renewable energy too but were scuppered on it. I saw the other week something about the potential fallout for Ireland if a Brexit happens and we apparently import something like 70% of our fuel from the UK. We have the potential to be completely self sufficient but we'd rather take backhanders from oil and gas companies and be dependent on other countries instead.

The Greens are also the only party that have an actual animal welfare policy in their manifesto. Separate from any other policies. I know in the grand scheme of things people care more about water rates, hospitals, "homelessness" etc. and that's fine but animal welfare is a serious issue in Ireland, some of the things you read about would turn your stomach.

But anyway.... in danger of getting too political there..... so... yeah... boo Sinn Fein!

swiwi_

I quite liked the Greens in Ireland. In NZ, voting Green means voting extreme left, so they never get my vote.

In theory, if FF & FG form a coalition, they will have a crushing majority, so they can do what is best for Ireland not what is best for the local Parish.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Buer wrote: »

I'd love it if you're right but I can see them getting into power in some capacity in the next 10 years. Look at their increases over the last few elections. They went from 5 to 14 and are going to be around the 20 mark this time if not a bit more.

Those sort of numbers make them very realistic coalition partners. I suspect the bigger boys will wait until Adams is gone so they can pretend they're viable partners.

The annoying thing about SF is that on occasion a few of them talk a lot of sense. Pearse Doherty could win quite a few people over if he was leader. At the end of the day, for a lot of people, it's their links to the IRA and that period of history that make them a non starter, regardless of what they're saying or doing. If they were to have a proper clean out and get rid of all those old faces they would stand a much better chance of winning over new voters. The ironic thing is they'd probably lose a lot of voters too who are voting for them purely for the same reasons sensible people avoid them.

Podge_irl

swiwi_ wrote: »

I quite liked the Greens in Ireland. In NZ, voting Green means voting extreme left, so they never get my vote.

In theory, if FF & FG form a coalition, they will have a crushing majority, so they can do what is best for Ireland not what is best for the local Parish.

Last govt had a crushing majority and look where its left them!

The real concern over a FF/FG coalition is even more support then drifting to some of the oddballs left as the opposition.

Synode

I can't help but think that if FG got rid of Enda they'd have done better. He comes across as an absolute fraud

Podge_irl

Synode wrote: »

I can't help but think that if FG got rid of Enda they'd have done better. He comes across as an absolute fraud

Would have to think he's toast after this. Then again I was amazed the attempt to oust him for Bruton before the 2011 election didn't work so what do I know.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Podge_irl wrote: »

Would have to think he's toast after this. Then again I was amazed the attempt to oust him for Bruton before the 2011 election didn't work so what do I know.

Leo's a much better option, I reckon. He's a very cool customer and I'd imagine he'd be favourite to replace him now.

Imagine that, less than a year after passing the Marriage Equality referendum we could have a gay Taoiseach. Suck on that, Catholic Church!

Podge_irl

Yeah, big fan of Leo. Would have to be slightly worried how he'd play in certain parts of the country though.

Synode

Always liked Brian Hayes too

thomond2006

RIP Frank Kelly

In his own character's words: Feck.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Podge_irl wrote: »

Yeah, big fan of Leo. Would have to be slightly worried how he'd play in certain parts of the country though.

The racist homophobic parts?

Eamon Ryan just got elected there. My maths isn't what it used to be but I'm pretty sure that's a 200% increase for the Greens this election. Decent.

Synode

thomond2006 wrote: »

RIP Frank Kelly

Where'd you see that

Edit: All over Twitter

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

thomond2006 wrote: »

RIP Frank Kelly

On the 18th anniversary of Dermot Morgan's death too.

Bazzo

Synode wrote: »

Where'd you see that

Edit: All over Twitter

http://www.rte.ie/ten/news/2016/0228/771346-acting-great-frank-kelly-dies-aged-77/

Very sad but I suppose he was a good age at least...

Pink Fairy

Buer wrote: »

I'd love it if you're right but I can see them getting into power in some capacity in the next 10 years. Look at their increases over the last few elections. They went from 5 to 14 and are going to be around the 20 mark this time if not a bit more.

Those sort of numbers make them very realistic coalition partners. I suspect the bigger boys will wait until Adams is gone so they can pretend they're viable partners.

But they've hit their ceiling, this was the election we were told they could get 30 seats off the back of FF being destroyed ...and people actually decided to vote FF rather than Sinn Fein. This is as high as they ever go, Ferris has gone from being a poll topper in Kerry to getting in approx 4th.

Podge_irl

SF just aren't transfer friendly enough. Might change when Adams finally leaves. They'll do well if FF and FG go into coalition.

My constit (well my old one) DBN is looking interesting. O'Riordan needs to get in for Labour to meet the limit of 7 TDs. Some fall from grace. Not entirely sure he will, which is a shame as I like him. Haven't really got a clue what way the transfers will go though. The constit has really changed which is probably hurting McGrath (thankfully).

swiwi_

I see James Reilly lost his seat. He made few friends among his former profession during his time as Minister for Health that's for sure.

Buer

Pink Fairy wrote: »

But they've hit their ceiling, this was the election we were told they could get 30 seats off the back of FF being destroyed ...and people actually decided to vote FF rather than Sinn Fein. This is as high as they ever go, Ferris has gone from being a poll topper in Kerry to getting in approx 4th.

I don't think we know where their ceiling is. The fact is that they're coming on in significant leaps each election, though. They're going to top 20 seats in this election now. The most important part is who is getting seats for them though. These aren't crusty old republicans with criminal records.

Ferris (64), Ellis (63) and Adams (67) are on the way out and won't contest another general election after this one. They're dinosaurs and the PR machine is working overtime to put new faces in place. Those getting the seats for them now are young, first time seat winners including 4 females so far this week.

As long as things are going badly, they'll capitalise on the situation and gain further traction. When Adams is gone, I can see them moderating their lunatic economic positions (whilst maintaining their historic links). ML McDonald will be their leader and nobody should forget that she's not a Shinner at all...she's a Fianna Fáiler who only quit them because she's power hungry.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Mary Lou isn't particularly likable though. Not sure that matters much to the electorate.

Buer

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Mary Lou isn't particularly likable though. Not sure that matters much to the electorate.

Doesn't matter. She's a complete shoe in with her constituency. Adams has been a complete disaster in this election in terms of his leadership. McDonald isn't too impressive but would be more articulate and well positioned to deal with the other leaders. If anyone is ever in trouble against Adams, there's a quite convenient grenade they can throw into the conversation.

swiwi_

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Mary Lou isn't particularly likable though. Not sure that matters much to the electorate.

Buer wrote: »

Doesn't matter. She's a complete shoe in with her constituency. Adams has been a complete disaster in this election in terms of his leadership. McDonald isn't too impressive but would be more articulate and well positioned to deal with the other leaders. If anyone is ever in trouble against Adams, there's a quite convenient grenade they can throw into the conversation.

I would have thought Pearse Doherty would be a better choice. At least he's articulate and doesn't sound like a whining cat. TBH I'm astounded Adams is still leader of Sinn Fein, you would think he is holding them back. I suppose no-one wants to organise a coup, it could turn deadly.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Buer wrote: »

Doesn't matter. She's a complete shoe in with her constituency. Adams has been a complete disaster in this election in terms of his leadership. McDonald isn't too impressive but would be more articulate and well positioned to deal with the other leaders. If anyone is ever in trouble against Adams, there's a quite convenient grenade they can throw into the conversation.

Adams still romped to victory in Louth though.

I don't think Mary Lou is all that articulate either and she acts like a spoiled child too. I do think a change at the top would do them good. Pearse Doherty would be my bet but it does seem Mary Lou is the obvious choice

Stheno

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Adams still romped to victory in Louth though.

I don't think Mary Lou is all that articulate either and she acts like a spoiled child too. I do think a change at the top would do them good. Pearse Doherty would be my bet but it does seem Mary Lou is the obvious choice

Adams managed to bring a second td in Louth.

I find Mary Lou very fake especially with the dub accent

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Stheno wrote: »

Adams managed to bring a second td in Louth.

I find Mary Lou very fake especially with the dub accent

She's from Dublin, isn't she?

Stheno

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

She's from Dublin, isn't she?

Yeah south county Dublin and privately educated. Doesn't quite fit with the inner city dub accent

Buer

Doherty would be a much better choice but that would fly in the face of the succession planning that appears to have been in place for the last decade. I can see Doherty being leader one day but I would say McDonald will step up from vice-president when Adams steps down.

CatFromHue

swiwi_ wrote: »

TBH I'm astounded Adams is still leader of Sinn Fein, you would think he is holding them back.

I suppose there's the argument of who really runs SF................

Synode

CatFromHue wrote: »

I suppose there's the argument of who really runs SF................

Apparently their Ard Fheis is like something from a Mafia movie. 3/4 length leather jackets everywhere

Pink Fairy

Buer wrote: »

I don't think we know where their ceiling is. The fact is that they're coming on in significant leaps each election, though. They're going to top 20 seats in this election now. The most important part is who is getting seats for them though. These aren't crusty old republicans with criminal records.

Ferris (64), Ellis (63) and Adams (67) are on the way out and won't contest another general election after this one. They're dinosaurs and the PR machine is working overtime to put new faces in place. Those getting the seats for them now are young, first time seat winners including 4 females so far this week.

As long as things are going badly, they'll capitalise on the situation and gain further traction. When Adams is gone, I can see them moderating their lunatic economic positions (whilst maintaining their historic links). ML McDonald will be their leader and nobody should forget that she's not a Shinner at all...she's a Fianna Fáiler who only quit them because she's power hungry.

Mary Lou will never be leader of Sinn Fein, of that you can be sure. Chances of it being someone in the Dáil are slim enough as their core power base is in the north, Doherty has a chance, perhaps.
As for their ceiling, this is it. They followed the 2 most despised governments ever, and predicted 30 seats.... This is actually going to be looked on as a failure for Sinn Fein, they should have approx 15 more seats than they will end up with.....but only if they had a leader people trusted and economic policies that weren't pie in the sky, purple flying monkey shïte.

Synode

The fact they got over 20 seats with their economic policies makes me very sad. There's an awful lot of idiots in this country

Pink Fairy

RIP Father Jack

Stheno

Synode wrote: »

The fact they got over 20 seats with their economic policies makes me very sad. There's an awful lot of idiots in this country

Their economic policies mean that if they ever get into power, I'll leave the country.

Thankfully there are plenty of job opportunities for me abroad

Pudsy33

Synode wrote: »

The fact they got over 20 seats with their economic policies makes me very sad. There's an awful lot of idiots in this country

They have policies?

Stheno

Pudsy33 wrote: »

They have policies?

Well makeyupy facts like "the rich earn too much, everyone over 100k per year should hand over all their money to the govt"

Or "we need an NHS" while Gerry saunters over to the US for his healthcare.

Tox56

Pink Fairy wrote: »

Mary Lou will never be leader of Sinn Fein, of that you can be sure. Chances of it being someone in the Dáil are slim enough as their core power base is in the north, Doherty has a chance, perhaps.
As for their ceiling, this is it. They followed the 2 most despised governments ever, and predicted 30 seats.... This is actually going to be looked on as a failure for Sinn Fein, they should have approx 15 more seats than they will end up with.....but only if they had a leader people trusted and economic policies that weren't pie in the sky, purple flying monkey shïte.

When you consider Fianna Fail are nearly the biggest party again it is hard to think anything will ever significantly change

Buer

Pink Fairy wrote:

Mary Lou will never be leader of Sinn Fein, of that you can be sure. Chances of it being someone in the Dáil are slim enough as their core power base is in the north, Doherty has a chance, perhaps.

I'd be surprised if they went for a northern leader. It would completely undermine all the work they've done over the past decade to win over southern votes and try to put some distance between themselves and terrorist links.

The big focus for them is to grow power in the south and get a foothold in Leinster House rather than Stormont where they're already well established.

Every bookie and pundit has McDonald miles ahead as the likely successor with Doherty the only real challenger. She has been publicly groomed for the job for a long time now.

It wouldn't be any massive break with tradition either given the bulk of leaders historically have been from south of the border.

Buer

If you're right wing or right centre (which a massive chunk of people who actually get out and vote are), there's not much choice. Since the demise of the PDs, they either go FF or FG....aside from Renua who are batsh*t crazy.

JCX BXC

Buer wrote: »

aside from Renua who are batsh*t crazy.

They have been refereed to as the "Irish version of Islamic State"

Podge_irl

Buer wrote: »

aside from Renua who are batsh*t crazy.

And thus got no seats which is great.

Tox56

Buer wrote: »

If you're right wing or right centre (which a massive chunk of people who actually get out and vote are), there's not much choice. Since the demise of the PDs, they either go FF or FG....aside from Renua who are batsh*t crazy.

Theres not much choice for anyone, really. The only left wing party (outside Labour, who probably dont even deserve to be in that conversation) with an even semi-realistic chance of making it into government is Sinn Fein, and if nothing else they operate with the enormous handicap of immediately alienating a huge percentage of the population just because they're Sinn Fein. Watching the final leaders debate pretty much summed it up, 4 major parties and each one seems somehow even more god awful than the last

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Buer wrote: »

I'd be surprised if they went for a northern leader. It would completely undermine all the work they've done over the past decade to win over southern votes and try to put some distance between themselves and terrorist links.

The big focus for them is to grow power in the south and get a foothold in Leinster House rather than Stormont where they're already well established.

Every bookie and pundit has McDonald miles ahead as the likely successor with Doherty the only real challenger. She has been publicly groomed for the job for a long time now.

It wouldn't be any massive break with tradition either given the bulk of leaders historically have been from south of the border.

Pearse Doherty isn't Northern, he's young, he's got no past links to the troubles, as far as I know. He is their spokesperson on finance though :eek:

Zzippy

swiwi_ wrote: »

I see James Reilly lost his seat. He made few friends among his former profession during his time as Minister for Health that's for sure.

Former? AFAIK he's been back practising medicine in his GP surgery for a while now.

I never liked that term "practising medicine". Feck sake, could ye doctors not come up with a more reassuring phrase for us patients test subjects!
:P

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Zzippy wrote: »

Former? AFAIK he's been back practising medicine in his GP surgery for a while now.

I never liked that term "practising medicine". Feck sake, could ye doctors not come up with a more reassuring phrase for us patients test subjects!
:P

Dunno now, I had some bloods taken last week and practice seems like a pretty accurate word for yer one doing it. It was like she was digging for gold in my poor arm. Still got a bruise around my elbow 2 weeks later.

Zzippy

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Dunno now, I had some bloods taken last week and practice seems like a pretty accurate word for yer one doing it. It was like she was digging for gold in my poor arm. Still got a bruise around my elbow 2 weeks later.

I get my bloods taken regularly, and have had some unbelievably good and unbelievably bad nurses drawing it. One had a colleague actually grip and squeeze my upper arm as hard as he could to get blood out after 4 failed attempts on different veins. I was like a pin cushion! Then another nurse I have regularly is superb, I barely even feel the needle going in and she always finds the vein first time... let's just say I'm glad she's had lots of practice on other people!

Zzippy

Zzippy wrote: »

I get my bloods taken regularly, and have had some unbelievably good and unbelievably bad nurses drawing it. One had a colleague actually grip and squeeze my upper arm as hard as he could to get blood out after 4 failed attempts on different veins. I was like a pin cushion! Then another nurse I have regularly is superb, I barely even feel the needle going in and she always finds the vein first time... let's just say I'm glad she's had lots of practice on other people!

Getting bloods done this week as I've had a run of sickness and want to make sure nothing is amiss (am sure t'will be grand).

But I remember when I was training I'd have bloods done regularly at a clinic in Dublin and the difference between nurses was staggering. I had exceptionally low body fat so all my veins were very visibly, yet one nurse on two separate occasions managed to pierce straight through the vein. Really amateur stuff and quite uncomfortable. Another nurse who was a regular was terrific, never felt a pinch and she had it done and taken in seconds.