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Off Topic Thread too point uh

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 609 ✭✭✭English Lurker


    Swan Curry wrote: »
    Can't wait to see labour replace corbyn with one of the interchangeable blairites and then wonder why they keep losing elections

    Ach now, please look at the realities of the situation. Any replacement for Corbyn would go through the currently heavily pro-Corbyn Labour selectorate. There would not be a Blairite, not there's many left around for whom that label is accurate.

    In any case, there should be a middle way available for the Labour party. There is considerable ground left untouched between those still repeating philosophies of the past while showing no particular political competence, and those still repeating philosophies of the even further past while showing no particular political competence.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,572 Mod ✭✭✭✭Robbo


    Zzippy wrote: »
    Scaremongering worked in the Scottish independence referendum. They claimed an independent Scotland would not be guaranteed EU membership. Look how that worked out. SNP will win independence with a large majority if they run a new one soon.
    It wouldn't be guaranteed membership. The Treaties are quite clear on this (Articles 48 & 49 TEU in particular). Most of the legal analysis at the time (example) couldn't see a way around the proper process and Scotland joining the queue, meeting the convergence criteria, unanimous approval and all the other ingredients that Elbonia or whoever wants to join has to meet.

    What Salmond was banking on was the realpolitik of the situation forcing the EU's hand, thinking he was dealing with a more provincial issue such as his bailiwick is. He was also as clear as mud on the currency issue, knowing that adopting the Euro is mandatory for new Member States.

    By the way, I'm entirely in favour of the Scotchlanders breaking the Union and joining the EU. I just want them to go about it in the proper way and with Eurozone membership, not with some Sterling-pegged Groat with a picture of the Krankies on it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Kiwi_knock wrote: »
    The faceless bureaucrats were an easy way of escaping any responsibility. I wonder who will be the new scapegoat when things don't improve.

    This. It isn't about scaring people and I don't think it ever has been. It's about giving people a target so that they can blame their woes on someone else.

    We see it in the US with Trump. He's not successful because he is scaring people, he's successful because he is channelling peoples frustrations. The likes of the AAA here aren't gaining support and attention because they are scaring people. They are appealing to people. They are appealing to them by giving their frustrations credence and a clear focus. That's what the political classes in general are failing to get.

    People don't want complex, well thought out and rational responses to complex and difficult issues. They want something simple and easy to digest. They don't want to be scared, they want their frustrations to be vindicated and heard. The Leave campaign gave people something to latch onto. That's why it won.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Robbo wrote: »
    It wouldn't be guaranteed membership. The Treaties are quite clear on this (Articles 48 & 49 TEU in particular). Most of the legal analysis at the time (example) couldn't see a way around the proper process and Scotland joining the queue, meeting the convergence criteria, unanimous approval and all the other ingredients that Elbonia or whoever wants to join has to meet.

    What Salmond was banking on was the realpolitik of the situation forcing the EU's hand, thinking he was dealing with a more provincial issue such as his bailiwick is. He was also as clear as mud on the currency issue, knowing that adopting the Euro is mandatory for new Member States.

    By the way, I'm entirely in favour of the Scotchlanders breaking the Union and joining the EU. I just want them to go about it in the proper way and with Eurozone membership, not with some Sterling-pegged Groat with a picture of the Krankies on it.

    Sturgeon has already said that they are going to assess the situation and how EU entry would look before pushing for a referendum, but with over 60% of the vote wanting to remain in Europe and the SNP making significant gains in the recent election it's effectively a fait accompli.

    I also think that England would have likely been the biggest blocker of an independent Scotland joining the EU and they no longer have a say.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Sturgeon has already said that they are going to assess the situation and how EU entry would look before pushing for a referendum, but with over 60% of the vote wanting to remain in Europe and the SNP making significant gains in the recent election it's effectively a fait accompli.

    I also think that England would have likely been the biggest blocker of an independent Scotland joining the EU and they no longer have a say.

    There's no fait accompli.

    Scaremongering will be particularly easy if a Scottish referendum runs parallel to Dutch, Italian, Danish referenda on their future in the EU all of which seem to be possibilities.

    It'll be great though for the Scots to get another chance at it.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    There's no fait accompli.

    Scaremongering will be particularly easy if a Scottish referendum runs parallel to Dutch, Italian, Danish referenda on their future in the EU all of which seem to be possibilities.

    It'll be great though for the Scots to get another chance at it.

    There is absolutely no way any of those countries will have a referendum until they see how things turn out in the UK. Most other EU countries have come out galvanised saying the EU will be stronger which I hope is the case, it's flawed (as all governments are) but it's been a fantastic vehicle for creating familiarity and cohesion across an (up till recently) troubled continent.

    If the UK economy tanks (which so far is exactly what is happening) then any votes in Europe will be defeated.

    England were always the mostly likely to leave the EU (even Greece stayed at the worst of times) because it's Government has used nationalism and skepticism as a vote generating tool. The head of the traditional "Euro-skeptic" party when pushed on it was strongly in favour of the EU and lost his job trying to defend it. This is the "save the pound" party of 10 years ago.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    There is absolutely no way any of those countries will have a referendum until they see how things turn out in the UK. Most other EU countries have come out galvanised saying the EU will be stronger which I hope is the case, it's flawed (as all governments are) but it's been a fantastic vehicle for creating familiarity and cohesion across an (up till recently) troubled continent.

    If the UK economy tanks (which so far is exactly what is happening) then any votes in Europe will be defeated.

    England were always the mostly likely to leave the EU (even Greece stayed at the worst of times) because it's Government has used nationalism and skepticism as a vote generating tool. The head of the traditional "Euro-skeptic" party when pushed on it was strongly in favour of the EU and lost his job trying to defend it. This is the "save the pound" party of 10 years ago.

    Let's see.

    I reckon we'll see a referendum called in at least one European country very soon. The Dutch seem most likely.


  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Greta Massive Saliva


    There is absolutely no way any of those countries will have a referendum until they see how things turn out in the UK. Most other EU countries have come out galvanised saying the EU will be stronger which I hope is the case, it's flawed (as all governments are) but it's been a fantastic vehicle for creating familiarity and cohesion across an (up till recently) troubled continent.

    If the UK economy tanks (which so far is exactly what is happening) then any votes in Europe will be defeated.

    England were always the mostly likely to leave the EU (even Greece stayed at the worst of times) because it's Government has used nationalism and skepticism as a vote generating tool. The head of the traditional "Euro-skeptic" party when pushed on it was strongly in favour of the EU and lost his job trying to defend it. This is the "save the pound" party of 10 years ago.

    FTSE has rallied massively at this stage. Trading at 6,185 at the moment. (was as low as 5,850)

    GBPUSD @ 1.377
    EURGBP @ 0.80

    Immediate issues are speedbumps. The economy is like an oil tanker, you can't just turn left and be facing left. The impact of 'Brexit' will take many months to get through.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,342 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    molloyjh wrote: »

    The likes of the AAA here aren't gaining support and attention because they are scaring people. They are appealing to people. They are appealing to them by giving their frustrations credence and a clear focus. That's what the political classes in general are failing to get.

    I'm sorry but that's giving them far too much credit. Trump, brexiters and the AAA aren't giving anything a clear focus. They're giving the people a completely fabricated enemy to focus on who they claim has caused all their frustrations. When Britain is out of Europe and Trump has started his hate war someone will turn them on someone else. It's depressing.

    There is a failure amongst "the political class" to understand a lot of the people's concerns and defuse them. That I acknowledge. But it's hard to bring a reasoned argument to a **** fight


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,342 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    There is absolutely no way any of those countries will have a referendum until they see how things turn out in the UK. Most other EU countries have come out galvanised saying the EU will be stronger which I hope is the case, it's flawed (as all governments are) but it's been a fantastic vehicle for creating familiarity and cohesion across an (up till recently) troubled continent.

    If the UK economy tanks (which so far is exactly what is happening) then any votes in Europe will be defeated.

    England were always the mostly likely to leave the EU (even Greece stayed at the worst of times) because it's Government has used nationalism and skepticism as a vote generating tool. The head of the traditional "Euro-skeptic" party when pushed on it was strongly in favour of the EU and lost his job trying to defend it. This is the "save the pound" party of 10 years ago.

    FTSE has rallied massively at this stage. Trading at 6,185 at the moment. (was as low as 5,850)

    GBPUSD @ 1.377
    EURGBP @ 0.80

    Immediate issues are speedbumps. The economy is like an oil tanker, you can't just turn left and be facing left. The impact of 'Brexit' will take many months to get through.

    Rallying massively is easier when you have almost an historically precipitous fall.

    The impact will take months but there will be a huge increase in volatility in the interim and the ultimate outcome is still more likely than not to be poor (so far as these things are predictable).

    I agree the immediate impact is not instructive as basically no one had a clue what was going on. Things will obviously settle now but the new normal is still worse than yesterday.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,166 ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    Robbo wrote: »
    It wouldn't be guaranteed membership. The Treaties are quite clear on this (Articles 48 & 49 TEU in particular). Most of the legal analysis at the time (example) couldn't see a way around the proper process and Scotland joining the queue, meeting the convergence criteria, unanimous approval and all the other ingredients that Elbonia or whoever wants to join has to meet.

    What Salmond was banking on was the realpolitik of the situation forcing the EU's hand, thinking he was dealing with a more provincial issue such as his bailiwick is. He was also as clear as mud on the currency issue, knowing that adopting the Euro is mandatory for new Member States.

    By the way, I'm entirely in favour of the Scotchlanders breaking the Union and joining the EU. I just want them to go about it in the proper way and with Eurozone membership, not with some Sterling-pegged Groat with a picture of the Krankies on it.

    You're right. It was used as a carrot though, in the Scots referendum - the only way to guarantee EU membership is to stay in the UK. I'm sure a lot of people bore that in mind when voting to stay in - the same people who voted Remain yesterday, and look where it got them, they're out anyway.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,967 ✭✭✭Synode


    Immediate issues are speedbumps. The economy is like an oil tanker, you can't just turn left and be facing left. The impact of 'Brexit' will take many months to get through.

    Fully agree but I don't know of anyone who thinks Brexit will be good for the UK economy. PWC estimate they'll lose approx 70,000 - 100,000 jobs in the financial sector alone. I really can't believe the people have voted for this. I wonder what they'll think when it starts to hit their pockets


  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Greta Massive Saliva


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    Rallying massively is easier when you have almost an historically precipitous fall.

    The impact will take months but there will be a huge increase in volatility in the interim and the ultimate outcome is still more likely than not to be poor (so far as these things are predictable).

    I agree the immediate impact is not instructive as basically no one had a clue what was going on. Things will obviously settle now but the new normal is still worse than yesterday.

    yup. Just contradicting that what's happening now is the economy tanking. What's happening now is a market 'correction' as nobody believed that UK would actually do it, and as we got closer to the referendum people believed it less and less and so markets were more bullish about it not happening.

    Then last night/this morning there was a "oh ****, what have they done, what do we do?" spooking that has set all the markets in a scurry.

    Today's market shock was precipitated on the market yesterday believing Brexit was a non-runner. Had markets been less sure of (Not)Brexit, then there'd have been less of a fall to recover from.

    We are now living in a time where that paradigm is a goner, and now we've to see how the consequences roll. It will take many months for the effects of Brexit actually to start showing {companies leaving, new companies not starting, labour market changes etc}. I agree wholeheartedly that the UK has steered itself onto a lesser growth path than it would have been on had it not pulled the cord.


  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Greta Massive Saliva


    Synode wrote: »
    Fully agree but I don't know of anyone who thinks Brexit will be good for the UK economy. PWC estimate they'll lose approx 70,000 - 100,000 jobs in the financial sector alone. I really can't believe the people have voted for this. I wonder what they'll think when it starts to hit their pockets

    I don't think it is either, just correcting the "economy is tanking" above!


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    I'm sorry but that's giving them far too much credit. Trump, brexiters and the AAA aren't giving anything a clear focus. They're giving the people a completely fabricated enemy to focus on who they claim has caused all their frustrations. When Britain is out of Europe and Trump has started his hate war someone will turn them on someone else. It's depressing.

    There is a failure amongst "the political class" to understand a lot of the people's concerns and defuse them. That I acknowledge. But it's hard to bring a reasoned argument to a **** fight

    When I said a clear focus I didn't actually mean a valid one. A clear focus is just a thing for people to get behind or a place for them to aim their frustrations at. It's an outlet. It doesn't have to be the right one, or even a remotely sensible one.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Will noone spare a thought for poor gibraltar?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,899 ✭✭✭✭BBDBB


    Will noone spare a thought for poor gibraltar?




    I don't think they made the Euros did they?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    So I was thinking about how to restructure the Pro 12 after Brexit.

    First we need Scotland to leave the UK and join the EU as a sovereign stage.

    We then kick Welsh teams out of the Pro 12 because Wales.

    We let a de facto Georgia team in to do a Jaguares job on it. Let's call them the Mamukas.

    Tell the Italians to cop themselves with these two teams that nobody likes and also do a Jaguares, maybe call themselves the Azzuri or something.

    League of

    Leinster
    Munster
    Connacht
    Ulster
    Mamukas
    Azzuri
    Edinburgh
    Glasgow

    Change the league name to the Crazy 8.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 24 daveup


    Neil3030 wrote: »
    So I was thinking about how to restructure the Pro 12 after Brexit.

    First we need Scotland to leave the UK and join the EU as a sovereign stage.

    We then kick Welsh teams out of the Pro 12 because Wales.

    We let a de facto Georgia team in to do a Jaguares job on it. Let's call them the Mamukas.

    Tell the Italians to cop themselves with these two teams that nobody likes and also do a Jaguares, maybe call themselves the Azzuri or something.

    League of

    Leinster
    Munster
    Connacht
    Ulster
    Mamukas
    Azzuri
    Edinburgh
    Glasgow

    Change the league name to the Crazy 8.

    what you say may not be as bizarre as you think. The four provinces came into existence because of inability to compete. If we add gerogia, russia, holland, germany, italy to the fold, is it such a bad idea? To have a singular italy team in the pro12 only adds competition and also improves italy''s international potential. so you may not be as far off as you think


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭Bazzo


    I know there are a few other immigrants to Britain knocking around here and I'm just wondering what they're thinking about the sentiment regarding the outcome of this referendum? The major driving influence behind the brexit vote for me seemed to be strongly anti-immigration. I moved over to the UK as a student, have 2 years left to do and after that I was thinking it might be nice to stay around for a while. I'm enjoying my time there(I come back to Ireland to work for the summers), but I can't shake the feeling that it's gonna feel a little more hostile when I go back now, especially because I'm based in the north of England. I'll probably wind up my studies on the eve of the actual exit and just head home.

    I'm far from anything resembling properly informed on politcal/economic situations to be perfectly honest but I can't see a good outcome for Britain in the short-medium term on this. I think every economist I've been reading in the past couple weeks and today have been in agreement to varying degrees that this doesn't bode well for the UK's economy. Swiwi, I noticed you said earlier that you're on the pro-leave side? Just curious if you've seen or have any contradictory opinions? Isn't the UK's economy much more largely based on EU exports than Switzerlands and wouldn't that play a huge part in the outcome?

    Anyway, the very minor silver lining of this for me is that the sterling has become so much weaker against the euro that it's starting to make sense for me to transfer savings across to pay for my studies. A year ago I was struggling to get 70p for my euro, today I moved some money across for close to 83 pence per euro.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    There's no hostility towards the Irish in Britain (beyond maybe some lasting tension from the troubles in very specific areas), particularly in the North where there's actually often quite a lot of ties to Ireland. There's no reason to feel like there'd be any hostility and there's also no indication that the referendum will affect the right to work for EU people already based in the UK, especially for Irish people who have the CTA. I think there's a lot of bad feeling about the result leading to people to suggest otherwise, but there's no evidence for it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭Bazzo


    There's no hostility towards the Irish in Britain (beyond maybe some lasting tension from the troubles in very specific areas), particularly in the North where there's actually often quite a lot of ties to Ireland. There's no reason to feel like there'd be any hostility and there's also no indication that the referendum will affect the right to work for EU people already based in the UK, especially for Irish people who have the CTA. I think there's a lot of bad feeling about the result leading to people to suggest otherwise, but there's no evidence for it.

    Working on too little sleep at the minute and struggling to get thoughts to words properly. I didn't mean that it was going to be or has ever felt like a hostile environment living there, just that I see myself as an immigrant and I don't think I'll ever be able to shake the feeling in my head that there's an anti-immigrant sentiment(whom I count myself among, regardless of ties and familiarity).

    I dunno, maybe I'll get back in September and everything will be as you were and it'll fade, it's just a feeling rattling around in my head at the minute.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,071 ✭✭✭✭wp_rathead


    Ireland and UK joined EU/ECC same year right?
    So the CTA has never existed where one is in the EU and one is not - gonna be messy


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Bazzo wrote: »
    Working on too little sleep at the minute and struggling to get thoughts to words properly. I didn't mean that it was going to be or has ever felt like a hostile environment living there, just that I see myself as an immigrant and I don't think I'll ever be able to shake the feeling in my head that there's an anti-immigrant sentiment(whom I count myself among, regardless of ties and familiarity).

    I dunno, maybe I'll get back in September and everything will be as you were and it'll fade, it's just a feeling rattling around in my head at the minute.

    Have you sensed an anti-immigrant sentiment amongst the people you've met/dealt with in the UK?

    I don't think anything close to a majority of British people are anti-immigrant. Wanting controls on immigration and being anti-immigrant aren't really the same thing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    wp_rathead wrote: »
    Ireland and UK joined EU/ECC same year right?
    So the CTA has never existed where one is in the EU and one is not - gonna be messy

    It'll be a very messy couple of years while it's negotiated, but I can't see it being in the interest of either party to impose anything that feels majorly different to the status quo


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Have you sensed an anti-immigrant sentiment amongst the people you've met/dealt with in the UK?

    I don't think anything close to a majority of British people are anti-immigrant. Wanting controls on immigration and being anti-immigrant aren't really the same thing.

    The likelyhood is that any controls they seek to put on immigration will be rejected by the EU should the UK wish to trade with them (similar to Norway).

    It's a huge part of the leave vote but one that they now most likely will have less control of if they want to trade with Ireland and the EU.

    It would be laughable if it wasn't so tragic, dangerous and needless.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭Bazzo


    Have you sensed an anti-immigrant sentiment amongst the people you've met/dealt with in the UK?

    I don't think anything close to a majority of British people are anti-immigrant. Wanting controls on immigration and being anti-immigrant aren't really the same thing.

    I've certainly come across a few, mostly a generation or two removed from me and not exactly people who'd be mixing in my social circles. Had the misfortune of witnessing a UKIP demonstration at one stage.


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    Neil3030 wrote: »
    Change the league name to the Crazy 8.

    I think we should do this right now anyway.

    Pro12 is a crap name.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    daveup wrote: »
    what you say may not be as bizarre as you think. The four provinces came into existence because of inability to compete. If we add gerogia, russia, holland, germany, italy to the fold, is it such a bad idea? To have a singular italy team in the pro12 only adds competition and also improves italy''s international potential. so you may not be as far off as you think

    I was presenting a serious suggestion in a jokey way, and I like your idea to add a few more countries.

    We sorely need to cash in on Georgia though, first and foremost, they are definitely the next significant player in rugby.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    The likelyhood is that any controls they seek to put on immigration will be rejected by the EU should the UK wish to trade with them (similar to Norway).

    It's a huge part of the leave vote but one that they now most likely will have less control of if they want to trade with Ireland and the EU.

    It would be laughable if it wasn't so tragic, dangerous and needless.

    I don't think that's a likelihood at all actually. The EU are perfectly willing to cede ground all over the place in their quest for free trade, as we see with TTIP.

    And their response to the Swiss immigration referendum was particularly toothless. I think the UK will get their immigration controls and their free trade when all is said and done, but it will take a long time and who knows what the EU will look like by then.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,967 ✭✭✭Synode


    Don't think it will be as easy as that at all irishbucsfan. A lot of angry EU politicians will want to make an example of the UK to ensure other countries don't do the same thing. Switzerland and the UK are two completely different fishes


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,342 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Have you sensed an anti-immigrant sentiment amongst the people you've met/dealt with in the UK?

    I don't think anything close to a majority of British people are anti-immigrant. Wanting controls on immigration and being anti-immigrant aren't really the same thing.

    They have controls on Non-Europe immigration. There remains a massive influx of immigration for a reason. I can't believe a bigger deal wasn't made of that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,501 ✭✭✭swiwi_


    Well, it's just as well I don't care what you think with your anti Eu cliché either now isn't it
    I'm so happy you have a great life in Switzerland, happy days lad. But, it's not the same in the UK and we in Ireland are inextricably linked to the UK and it will have a disproportionate negative affect on us too compared to any other country in the EU

    We agree on that, it's bad news for Ireland.

    The EU needs to take stock, though. It was originally designed along the lines of a Franco-German pact to prevent further war etc.

    It would have worked fine if the EU money zone had been restricted to the western continental bloc: France, Germany, Benelux etc. Instead the EU broke its own rules to allow in the likes of Greece, along with other work-averse countries like Spain.

    I have no doubt Britain will survive just fine. But Ireland would definitely prefer to have Britain in the EU, no question.

    I see it took all of about 5 seconds before Sinn Fein raised the one island issue again.

    My relatives, of which I have a multitude in Britain, seem mostly to have voted to remain, and like yourself Felix are a bit in shock.


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    everyone's in shock, even those who voted to leave!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    There is definitely anti Irish sentiment in the UK. Not to the same overt extent that there is anti other-less-white-immigrants sentiment; it takes on a more subtle flavour of condescention and supeiority.

    Just last week I was on a ferry from Holyhead and as the shuttle bus reversed off at Dublin port a woman from an otherwise respectable group of middle-aged couples loudly announced "Oh, the bus is going backwards, we must be in Ireland"

    Also, how often do you hear jokes made about potatoes? This is a particular bugbear of mine; seeing as the British eat more potatoes per capita than we do, there is no way this doesn't refer to the famine.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Synode wrote: »
    Don't think it will be as easy as that at all irishbucsfan. A lot of angry EU politicians will want to make an example of the UK to ensure other countries don't do the same thing. Switzerland and the UK are two completely different fishes

    I can't see any chance of Britain being made an example of if involves Euroean politicians having to explain to their increasingly eurosceptic electorate that they're paying tariffs so that they can punish another nation for resorting to democracy.


  • Administrators Posts: 54,110 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    I can't see any chance of Britain being made an example of if involves Euroean politicians having to explain to their increasingly eurosceptic electorate that they're paying tariffs so that they can punish another nation for resorting to democracy.

    Er, they'd be paying tariffs because there has to be some advantage to being within the EU.

    The EU is not going to let the UK saunter off and then take advantage of the market.

    And this "resorting to democracy" stuff is so inane. Britain was as much of a democracy yesterday as it is today and will be whenever it actually leaves.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    They have controls on Non-Europe immigration. There remains a massive influx of immigration for a reason. I can't believe a bigger deal wasn't made of that.

    I think in reality the concerns are about a very specific type of immigrant and certain voters feel like they will now be able to stop that. I think they'll ultimately be very disappointed on that score, I can't see them meeting the target they quoted on immigration figures.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭Bazzo


    Have to say though, got a laugh out of Farage and the 350 million for the NHS antics today.

    https://twitter.com/keaneshaw/status/746230773770969088


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Bazzo wrote: »
    Have to say though, got a laugh out of Farage and the 350 million...

    There were two leave campaigns, people struggle to understand that. Vote Leave and Leave.uk (and I think they were as bad as each other).

    I very much dislike the man but people need to focus on criticising the things he actually is responsible for.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,616 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    Yeah, and we're lucky. Because Farage never promised 350mn for the NHS, but even if he did he wouldn't be able to deliver it.

    Boris on the other hand, Boris very much promised 350mn for the NHS, and the chances are he'll be prime minister in a couple of months. So the people of Britain can hold him to the white words on the side of his bus.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,342 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    There were two leave campaigns, people struggle to understand that. Vote Leave and Leave.uk (and I think they were as bad as each other).

    I very much dislike the man but people need to focus on criticising the things he actually is responsible for.

    Yeah. Gove and Johnson are the despicable folks responsible for that. Farage just hates brown people.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,819 ✭✭✭b.gud


    b.gud wrote: »
    Was planning on selling my car send buying a newer one. On the way to test drive so car today a little old lady ran into me on the round about.
    She is adamant that she wasn't at fault, I know for sure fact she is so now I'll probably have to deal with the hassle of insurance companies for a couple of weeks :angry:

    Are you f***ing s***ing me, on the way home from work this evening sitting traffic and someone runs into the back of me

    giphy.gif


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    Yeah. Gove and Johnson are the despicable folks responsible for that. Farage just hates brown people.

    And the breaking point posters were far far worse than the 350m claim. They were blatantly xenophobic and manipulative and actually likely had far more of an effect.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,160 ✭✭✭Felix Jones is God


    Will noone spare a thought for poor gibraltar?

    I've been dealing with that issue since 6am :mad:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,899 ✭✭✭✭BBDBB


    Gibraltar to join the Pro 12


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,817 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    There is some real division on this today in the UK. I've witnessed people having arguments on Facebook and people under 40, who mainly voted remain, are wondering why people over 60, mainly voted leave, are getting to dictate the future of the country that will affect the young a lot more than the old!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,599 ✭✭✭matthew8


    bilston wrote: »
    There is some real division on this today in the UK. I've witnessed people having arguments on Facebook and people under 40, who mainly voted remain, are wondering why people over 60, mainly voted leave, are getting to dictate the future of the country that will affect the young a lot more than the old!

    The whinging is unreal from the remain side. I wanted them to stay in but all this stuff about leave being racist/stupid/uneducated/old is just pathetic.


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