Who pays the €90 registration for PRTB?

sinjin_smythe

Hi guys,

Moved into a place a couple of weeks ago, was a little surprised when landlord raised this as I thought it was their responsibility. I had a look on the PRTB website and was unable to find any answers, I did see that it noted that it is the responsibility of the landlord to register with the PRTB (and yes I would presume the cost of registration would fall on them also but it doesnt actually specify this).

Could anyone point me to a section on the site that clearly specifies who is responsible to pay for the registration?

Thanks!

mrbloop

Hi weedhead,

I am a landlord myself (although a reluctant one) and it is my understanding that it is the landlord's responsibility to register and pay. The cost of this is then tax deductible on the landlord's tax returns, and so the net cost to him would be null anyway.

He either has not got a clue or is chancing his arm, I think!

Mellowbird

I agree, he must be a new landlord or he is a chancer. The landlord registers a property with PRTB and tenants should check that the property they are renting is registered with PRTB.

the world wonders

The landlord specifically is obliged to register the tenancy:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2004/en/act/pub/0027/print.html#sec134
134.—(1) The landlord of a dwelling shall apply to the Board to register the tenancy of the dwelling under this Part.

As such it's their responsibility to pay the fee to the PRTB, however there is no law preventing them from turning around and trying to charge you the €90.

However, I have never had a landlord try and pass this cost on to me and it appears, like the posts above me say, that he is chancing his arm.

What does your lease have to say on the subject?

sinjin_smythe

Thanks guys. I hope he is just a little clueless as it wouldn't be the best start to our relationship!

Thanks to poster who sent on the link but although it says they should register it doesnt say they are required to pay the registration fee. Is there anywhere on the site i can send him a link to just so he doesn't have a leg to stand on?

Barely Hedged

mrbloop wrote: »

Hi weedhead,

I am a landlord myself (although a reluctant one) and it is my understanding that it is the landlord's responsibility to register and pay. The cost of this is then tax deductible on the landlord's tax returns, and so the net cost to him would be null anyway.

He either has not got a clue or is chancing his arm, I think!

How is the cost null to the landlord?

Say your gross profit as a landlord is 1k per annum. With a rough tax rate of 50%, this is 500 net profit. If you consider the cost of this fee as tax deductible, then the total taxable gross profit is 910 giving you net profit of 455.

So even if it's tax deductible, you still end up paying the respective tax rate on the fee.

garhjw

It is the landlords responsibility to register and pay for registration. Such costs should be factored into the rent they want for the property...

murphaph

Tax deductible != free. The amount of times I've read that on here is unreal. People who obviously do not know how income tax on rental income is calculated professing themselves as experts on the matter.

hfallada

LL pays this fee. When you get an audit from Revenue its generally the first thing they ask to see. As your mortgage interest relief is dependent on being PRTB registered

suave.4u

Sorry to hijack the thread but just a query.
When the initial 1 year lease ends, does the landlord need to pay €90 registration for PRTB again? Also is it necessary that the lease the renewed after a year.

mrbloop

Barely Hedged wrote: »

How is the cost null to the landlord?

Say your gross profit as a landlord is 1k per annum. With a rough tax rate of 50%, this is 500 net profit. If you consider the cost of this fee as tax deductible, then the total taxable gross profit is 910 giving you net profit of 455.

So even if it's tax deductible, you still end up paying the respective tax rate on the fee.

Yep, sorry about that! It was a throw-away remark that I didn't think through. Apologies for any confusion.

garhjw

suave.4u wrote: »

Sorry to hijack the thread but just a query.
When the initial 1 year lease ends, does the landlord need to pay €90 registration for PRTB again? Also is it necessary that the lease the renewed after a year.

I think you only need to re-register the tenancy every 4 years but am open to correction

ted1

weedhead wrote: »

Thanks guys. I hope he is just a little clueless as it wouldn't be the best start to our relationship!

Thanks to poster who sent on the link but although it says they should register it doesnt say they are required to pay the registration fee. Is there anywhere on the site i can send him a link to just so he doesn't have a leg to stand on?

If the charge was made known from the start than you may have to pay it. If not them he must pay it.

In future I'll be adding it on to the first month rent. After all the PRTB don't do anything for landlords

sinjin_smythe

ted1 wrote: »

If the charge was made known from the start than you may have to pay it. If not them he must pay it.

In future I'll be adding it on to the first month rent. After all the PRTB don't do anything for landlords

But its a requirement for the landlord to be registered, not the tenant. If we refue to pay the fee he is still held accountable and should not be renting in the first place.

Its ridiculous to be honest.

Victor

What does the contract say?

El_Duderino 09

If your lease states that you need to pay, then you need to pay.

You are not obliged to pay any landlord over-heads or anything else that is not stated in the agreement.

Jesus Wept

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

If your lease states that you need to pay, then you need to pay.

You are not obliged to pay any landlord over-heads or anything else that is not stated in the agreement.

You don't have to be registered as a tenant with the PTRB
Your landlord does have to register you. You don't have to pay for him to do something that he has to do and that you don't have to do.

It's not a clause that should be in a lease.

Also with the tax back system there is no reason for him to try to charge you unless he fancies an extra 90 quid in his pocket.

I've had this happen with my letting agent whom I am sadly forced to deal with, a slippery fellow. When I arrived with 1700 euro in cash, he had the gaul to tell me he needed 50 to register me with the PTRB.
I told him where to go and he backed off hummung and hawing.
That 50 would have been that evenings post work pints.

Oh, the kicker, he/the lordlord just didnt bother to register the tennancy.

Chloris

What can you do in that circumstance? When your landlord won't pay? I checked the register there and our property wasn't listed. He gave a verbal agreement at the beginning of our tenancy when I asked if he'd register with the PRTB. We've never had any unpleasant dealings with him and I'm confident that we won't have any trouble with him in future, he's an extremely nice person. I'd just like to be compliant with the rules in the event that there is some complication.

murphaph

Don't mind that online register. It's incomplete. I know from personal experience.

ted1

weedhead wrote: »

But its a requirement for the landlord to be registered, not the tenant. If we refue to pay the fee he is still held accountable and should not be renting in the first place.

Its ridiculous to be honest.

If you refuse the pay the fee, you wouldn't get to be my tenant. It will be payable with the deposit and first months rent

sinjin_smythe

ted1 wrote: »

If you refuse the pay the fee, you wouldn't get to be my tenant. It will be payable with the deposit and first months rent

Glad im not your tenant so.

the world wonders

ted1 wrote: »

If you refuse the pay the fee, you wouldn't get to be my tenant.

Fine by me. As a tenant I would see this as a sign that the landlord doesn't know how to run their business -- they should have already done their sums and factored the cost of PRTB registration into their incomings and outgoings. I don't want to be stuck with a landlord who will try and "nickel and dime" me by passing every little incidental expense on to me.

I had a landlord try and stick me with the €30 installation fee for a new washing machine and I was not impressed, I sent them a polite but firm email and got a cheque in the post a week later.

boardsuser1

ted1 wrote: »

If you refuse the pay the fee, you wouldn't get to be my tenant. It will be payable with the deposit and first months rent

You must be a rogue landlord so,any place I have rented bar 1 the landlord paid the fee,the one who didn't was rogue, he lost a tenant very quickly let me tell you

Stheno

I know a landlord who has a clause in all of their leases that tenants are liable to pay the property tax!

El_Duderino 09

the world wonders wrote: »

Fine by me. As a tenant I would see this as a sign that the landlord doesn't know how to run their business -- they should have already done their sums and factored the cost of PRTB registration into their incomings and outgoings. I don't want to be stuck with a landlord who will try and "nickel and dime" me by passing every little incidental expense on to me.

Totally agree. If the LL cant factor the cost of running their business into the price, then I would just go for a professional LL instead. I'm not accusing Ted of anything but if you can't do your sums to begin with I would be very suspicious of what other fees and charges he would like to push onto the tenant.

boardsuser1

Stheno wrote: »

I know a landlord who has a clause in all of their leases that tenants are liable to pay the property tax!

No experience of that thank god

Graces7

Chloris wrote: »

What can you do in that circumstance? When your landlord won't pay? I checked the register there and our property wasn't listed. He gave a verbal agreement at the beginning of our tenancy when I asked if he'd register with the PRTB. We've never had any unpleasant dealings with him and I'm confident that we won't have any trouble with him in future, he's an extremely nice person. I'd just like to be compliant with the rules in the event that there is some complication.

To quote PRTB when we had the same problem, " We will pursue him with an enforcement order...". Not your problem; his , and whether he is registered or not you are protected by the Tenancy Act as a tenant. You have told him; if need be report him to PRTB or not. His loss, his penalty not yours.

Jesus Wept

ted1 wrote: »

If you refuse the pay the fee, you wouldn't get to be my tenant. It will be payable with the deposit and first months rent

Yea well, you shouldn't be allowed be a landlord to be honest. I'd be delighted to avoid having to deal with you.

Graces7

Stheno wrote: »

I know a landlord who has a clause in all of their leases that tenants are liable to pay the property tax!

Unbelievable! Mine tried me re paying this, very respectfully, and I told him straight that that is HIS job not mine. He was in arrears also....There is no way I would rent from someone like the one you mention

gaius c

Stheno wrote: »

I know a landlord who has a clause in all of their leases that tenants are liable to pay the property tax!

Would he like his tenants to pay his income tax and PRSI while they are at it too?

Some people seem to think clauses in leases are cast-iron but they have to comply with the law.

If there was a clause in the lease saying that you would slaughter your first-born child, do you think the judge would find that an acceptable defence when you end up in court for complying with the lease?

murphaph

KC161 wrote: »

You must be a rogue landlord so,any place I have rented bar 1 the landlord paid the fee,the one who didn't was rogue, he lost a tenant very quickly let me tell you

You paid the fee. In fact you paid more than the fee. Think about it.