Commuting by car is king!

Cienciano

cdebru wrote: »

No one method will suit everyone, weather is overplayed as an excuse not to cycle, I have cycled everyday the last 10 days, nothing miserable about it, it only appears cold and miserable when you're not cycling, you get cold on a motorbike because you are just sitting there cycling you are working cold is not a problem. You don't have to wear lycra to cycle btw,

No, definitely miserable getting onto a bike in the wind and rain! You won't get cold on a motorbike if you're doing a city commute with any half decent gear. Only if you go out onto a motorway.

Jawgap wrote: »

Well it might be the quickest way, but is it the 'best' way? I think for anyone living around Dublin within 10 to 12 km of their workplace the bike is your only man.

Kilometer for kilometer cycling is the cheapest and most effective mode of moving around the city. You don't have to pay for insurance, road tax etc and you don't have to pay for a gym membership.

I agree, however, that it won't be attractive to everyone for a diverse range of reasons. I think though it suffers from the same 'image' problems scooters and motorbikes suffer from - it's dangerous; the weather is unsuitable; sweatiness; helmet hair etc

I used to do a ridiculously long commute (50km each way) which could take up to two hours - that's a long time I hear you say and it is for a commute. I didn't do it every day, but on the days I did it would take a total of about 3.5 hrs - if I drove it would take about 90 mins - however, if I drove and used the gym that would easily take the same time chunk out of my day.

The only added expenditure associated with doing a long commute by bike is food!

The "best" way is entirely down to the individual and their commute. Bike suits lots of people, but doesn't suit others. I'd imagine if I lived and worked on the green luas line I'd use that.
I've done commuting by car, bike, motorbike and bus. Currently car is the best. When I worked in the city centre motorbike or bicycle was the best. Public transport has never suited my commute though.

Pinch Flat

Ok fair enough - but the vast majority of cars commuting to Dublin are 20% full (ie single occupant). If an average car measures say 2m wide by let's say 5m long, that's I occupant per 10 sq m of road space. Let's take a packed bus - say 60 people. I'm no transport expert, but packing 60 people plus into a space that takes up say 35 sq m of road space.

Show me any mass transit system tgat works on the model of the private car as its primary means of moving lots of people and I will stand corrected.

BoatMad

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Ok fair enough - but the vast majority of cars commuting to Dublin are 20% full (ie single occupant). If an average car measures say 2m wide by let's say 5m long, that's I occupant per 10 sq m of road space. Let's take a packed bus - say 60 people. I'm no transport expert, but packing 60 people plus into a space that takes up say 35 sq m of road space.

Show me any mass transit system tgat works on the model of the private car as its primary means of moving lots of people and I will stand corrected.

Yes, but the flaw in that argument is that busses at peak times don't use all the road space allotted to them , whereas cars do. So if you had a near continuous flow of busses, your arguments would be correct. But all that would do is actually cause massive bus foulups.

At the end of the day, transport is about moving people per hour ( or by minute etc ) a bus lane with fractional loading is very inefficient in that. ( even if the people on any given bus are benefitting).

Light or heavy rail is actually much better as its a tightly controlled system, and hence with modern signalling or direct train control , you can potentially use far larger percentages of track space. of course the capital costs are huge .

Not arguing car re private transport,merely that bus lanes are a bad use of a scare resource , i.e. a road, especially where that lane is scavenged from existing car users.

Its a triumph of ideology over common sense

room_149

View wrote: »

In the case of the Mullingar-Athlone route, it could be as it would mean connections to Connolly and the IFSC.

Would this really be an option for people in Athlone? The Mullingar service to Dublin rattles along at a snails pace. I used it, gave up on it & used to drive to Leixlip or Maynooth & get the train into work from those places instead. I'd make my office in less than an hour

BoatMad

room_149 wrote: »

Would this really be an option for people in Athlone? The Mullingar service to Dublin rattles along at a snails pace. I used it, gave up on it & used to drive to Leixlip or Maynooth & get the train into work from those places instead. I'd make my office in less than an hour

There is unfortunately no justification for reopening that line. The rail connections from Connolly are way to over utilised at present and there is plans to electrify that section and introduce high frequency local commuter. This tends to kibosh sub-urban or interurban facilities as there isn't any train paths available.

The fact is that both Heustion and Connolly stations where never designed for high frequency commuter systems and are far to space constrained to ever be.

The fact is a good road system with then high density commuter trains , running from proper park and ride is a far better solution. Not that we can actually implement that properly

Pinch Flat

BoatMad wrote: »

Yes, but the flaw in that argument is that busses at peak times don't use all the road space allotted to them , whereas cars do. So if you had a near continuous flow of busses, your arguments would be correct. But all that would do is actually cause massive bus foulups.

At the end of the day, transport is about moving people per hour ( or by minute etc ) a bus lane with fractional loading is very inefficient in that. ( even if the people on any given bus are benefitting).

Light or heavy rail is actually much better as its a tightly controlled system, and hence with modern signalling or direct train control , you can potentially use far larger percentages of track space. of course the capital costs are huge .

Not arguing car re private transport,merely that bus lanes are a bad use of a scare resource , i.e. a road, especially where that lane is scavenged from existing car users.

Its a triumph of ideology over common sense

I'm finding it hard to visualise 60 single occupant cars being more efficient than a bus with 60 passengers in terms of road space usage, whether the bus is using the bus lane or not. Of course the ideal situation would be a dedicated bus corridor like what's planned for swords.

But yeah light rail / metro on dedicated infrastructure is the way forward for mass transport that's efficient

BoatMad

Pinch Flat wrote: »

I'm finding it hard to visualise 60 single occupant cars being more efficient than a bus with 60 passengers in terms of road space usage, whether the bus is using the bus lane or not. Of course the ideal situation would be a dedicated bus corridor like what's planned for swords.

But yeah light rail / metro on dedicated infrastructure is the way forward for mass transport that's efficient

Once in rush hour , assuming a basic movement of cars, once more then a busload of people in cars pass, before a bus passes, means the busway is being used less efficiently then the adjacent road space.

In many many busways in Dublin, you will get 60 cars past before a bus passes. On the nangor road for example, you can have three to four times the number of cars passing in the time a bus passes and the bus may not be full

Pinch Flat

BoatMad wrote: »

Once in rush hour , assuming a basic movement of cars, once more then a busload of people in cars pass, before a bus passes, means the busway is being used less efficiently then the adjacent road space.

In many many busways in Dublin, you will get 60 cars past before a bus passes. On the nangor road for example, you can have three to four times the number of cars passing in the time a bus passes and the bus may not be full

That's assuming the road is clear. The sheer volume of private one person cars going into Dublin is far in excess of what the system can cope with - this adversely affects the road space available for more efficient means of transport which includes buses.

I observe something different in Pearse st in the evening coming home - severAl lanes of cars that are at a standstill. The bus lane is busy - perhaps half a dozen or so buses would pass the near stationary line of cars.

Interesting reading at the following link
http://www.planetizen.com/node/59357

cdebru

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Do you have anything to back this up? I'm fininding it hard to imagine 80 single occupant cars taking up less road space than a full double decker bus or packed Luas.

Where I do see these as a waste of road space is where we have 24 hour bus lanes for a non existent 24 hour bus services.

24 hour bus lanes are normally where they wouldn't be a road lane if it wasn't a bus lane so there is no loss of road space, besides if you can do without it all day you are hardly likely to need to drive in it at 3am are you ?

cdebru

BoatMad wrote: »

Once in rush hour , assuming a basic movement of cars, once more then a busload of people in cars pass, before a bus passes, means the busway is being used less efficiently then the adjacent road space.

In many many busways in Dublin, you will get 60 cars past before a bus passes. On the nangor road for example, you can have three to four times the number of cars passing in the time a bus passes and the bus may not be full

A full AV carries upto 91 people, a full VT carries up to 124 people put yourself at the end of a queue of 124 cars and see how long it takes to get through a junction, that's presuming the other side of the junction isn't full of cars as well. Even if you are correct and 60 cars pass you would need another 30 to 60 before you the equivalent of a bus load had passed.
Three to four cars passing before a bus passes lol yeah how inefficient.

Pinch Flat

cdebru wrote: »

24 hour bus lanes are normally where they wouldn't be a road lane if it wasn't a bus lane so there is no loss of road space, besides if you can do without it all day you are hardly likely to need to drive in it at 3am are you ?

Ah yeah fair enough. I just can't get the logic of them. There's on on the old n3 outside clonee. Fair enough for getting buses into town at rush hour, but pointless outside of this

Muahahaha

cdebru wrote: »

Cycling is by far the easiest way to get around the city, a 10km commute by bike is less than 30minutes, no bus or car can compete with that, and your commute time is regular, besides that it is far cheaper and you can even scrap the gym membership you never use. No parking nightmares you can go directly to whatever part of the city need to get to.

I'd largely agree with this, I live 9km from town and can cover it in about 24-26 minutes. The 140 bus takes about 30-33 minutes to get to town from where I am. I think any cyclist of average fitness can beat the speed of Dublin Bus over a 10km commute. Huge amounts of commuters inside the m50 could actually get quicker to their destination cycling than they can by car or bus. Just this morning when cycling on my way into town a red car passed me outside the Lidl at the junction of St.Margarets Road, the car stood out as it had snow on the roof. Roll on 6km later and I overtook him in Phibsboro. It really stood out to me how driving inside the m50 is more or less the same average speed of cycling.

I own a mototbike too and it is marginally quicker over my commute than cycling, mainly as motorbikes have such good acceleration that you often skip through traffic light sequences that are timed for cars, often on a motorbike in the city I'll get four green lights in a row whereas that just wouldn't happen in a car, you'll get two greens and the next set you meet will be red.

But in general these days I'm more likely to take the bicycle as doing so means no need to be spending 3-4 hours down the gym every week. Cycling uses my commuting time to kill two birds with the one stone- getting to where I need to go and keeping in shape.

Jawgap

Muahahaha wrote: »

I'd largely agree with this, I live 9km from town and can cover it in about 24-26 minutes. The 140 bus takes about 30-33 minutes to get to town from where I am. I think any cyclist of average fitness can beat the speed of Dublin Bus over a 10km commute. Huge amounts of commuters inside the m50 could actually get quicker to their destination cycling than they can by car or bus. Just this morning when cycling on my way into town a red car passed me outside the Lidl at the junction of St.Margarets Road, the car stood out as it had snow on the roof. Roll on 6km later and I overtook him in Phibsboro. It really stood out to me how driving inside the m50 is more or less the same average speed of cycling.

I own a mototbike too and it is marginally quicker over my commute than cycling, mainly as motorbikes have such good acceleration that you often traffic light sequences that are timed for cars, often on a motorbike in the city I'll get four green lights in a row whereas that just wouldn't happen in a car, you'll get two greens and the next set you meet will be red.

But in general these days I'm more likely to take the bicycle as doing so means no need to be spending 3-4 hours down the gym every week. Cycling uses my commuting time to kill two birds with the one stone- getting to where I need to go and keeping in shape.

It's fairly easy to maintain a 30 km/hr average on a bike in the city centre. I used to live in Rathfarnham and from the city centre to there rare took more than 25 mins over 9.5 km. Took less than 20 mins going the other way because it was down hil

Usually took 30 to 40 mins in the car during rush hour.

Alias G

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Ah yeah fair enough. I just can't get the logic of them. There's on on the old n3 outside clonee. Fair enough for getting buses into town at rush hour, but pointless outside of this

Used by taxis aircoach and other private operators 24/7

Geuze

Jawgap wrote: »

I think housing and development policies have a lot to answer for, as well as public transport options - which are ok in Dublin, but pretty pathetic once you go outside the capital.

But there also remains the fact that Irish people love their cars!

The place I was working in last year had a big push a while ago to get people to give up their cars - mainly because they wanted to save on the car parking bills.

They pushed taxsaver, they pushed the cycle to work scheme and they pushed carpooling. They put a lot of 'soft incentives' in to help - for example, they revamped (and really poshed up) the showers and changing facilities (adding pretty big lockers), they ran a couple of raffles for things like ten journey tickets and Leap Card credit (to encourage people to at least try an alternative to the car) and organised coffee mornings with posh coffee and pastries for the "Commuter Club."

I think after about 6 months of trying only 2 people had switched from cars to public transport - this despite the fact that out of 120+ staff at the start of the process, over 80 were car commuters and of those 80 about 75% lived within 20km of the office and just under half lived within 10km.

Good point.

Very difficult to convince Irish people to give up the car.

lucernarian

Worth bearing in mind that after a cycle >10 minutes or so, I would end up looking for a shower. It's not something I had access to in most of the jobs I worked or indeed in college if time wasn't a luxury. I found I would have to allow an extra ten minutes for a shower and drying off etc. The time might vary by a few minutes either way but I doubt it's an uncommon experience. I hate traffic congestion and enjoy cycling as a whole but I regularly felt sweaty and this had its pitfalls:( Maybe it was different specifically because I tried to cycle more often while I was in college and the facilities provided were not ideal.

Jawgap

Geuze wrote: »

Good point.

Very difficult to convince Irish people to give up the car.

The programme they ran to help people quit smoking was many times more successful!!

LXFlyer

Jawgap wrote: »

I think housing and development policies have a lot to answer for, as well as public transport options - which are ok in Dublin, but pretty pathetic once you go outside the capital.

But there also remains the fact that Irish people love their cars!

The place I was working in last year had a big push a while ago to get people to give up their cars - mainly because they wanted to save on the car parking bills.

They pushed taxsaver, they pushed the cycle to work scheme and they pushed carpooling. They put a lot of 'soft incentives' in to help - for example, they revamped (and really poshed up) the showers and changing facilities (adding pretty big lockers), they ran a couple of raffles for things like ten journey tickets and Leap Card credit (to encourage people to at least try an alternative to the car) and organised coffee mornings with posh coffee and pastries for the "Commuter Club."

I think after about 6 months of trying only 2 people had switched from cars to public transport - this despite the fact that out of 120+ staff at the start of the process, over 80 were car commuters and of those 80 about 75% lived within 20km of the office and just under half lived within 10km.

Can I ask, was this company located in the city centre or in the suburbs?

Jawgap

lxflyer wrote: »

Can I ask, was this company located in the city centre or in the suburbs?

City centre - we were in a shared facility with a number of tenants, and were paying for car parking spaces under the building, the cost of which jumped dramatically.

I doubt the organisation would have been as motivated if there wasn't the prospect of a decent financial saving

LXFlyer

Jawgap wrote: »

City centre - we were in a shared facility with a number of tenants, and were paying for car parking spaces under the building, the cost of which jumped dramatically.

I doubt the organisation would have been as motivated if there wasn't the prospect of a decent financial saving

That really says a lot about people to be honest - it's rather shocking that they got such a poor response.

I could understand it in the suburbs where people are coming from a multitude of destinations, but not in the city centre, unless many of those people required their car during the day for work?

It does sort of suggest that some kind of penalties are going to be needed to force people onto public transport in the city centre, or else simply remove the parking spaces!

Hotblack Desiato

KevR wrote: »

Would a motorbike be more efficient from a road space usage point of view than say a car with 3+ occupants?

Yes. The amount of road space in fast flowing traffic isn't the issue, the issue is what happens when the traffic congests. Motorcycles filter through so take up effectively zero space, whereas the car remains an obstacle to everything behind it (including buses, if there are no or poorly designed bus lanes.)

Jawgap wrote: »

City centre - we were in a shared facility with a number of tenants, and were paying for car parking spaces under the building, the cost of which jumped dramatically.

I doubt the organisation would have been as motivated if there wasn't the prospect of a decent financial saving

The obvious answer there is pass the full cost onto those using the car spaces.

Pinch Flat

lxflyer wrote: »

That really says a lot about people to be honest - it's rather shocking that they got such a poor response.

I could understand it in the suburbs where people are coming from a multitude of destinations, but not in the city centre, unless many of those people required their car during the day for work?

It does sort of suggest that some kind of penalties are going to be needed to force people onto public transport in the city centre.

I worked in city west for about 2 years - Luas stop about 400 metres from the office. Firstly, people thought that was too far to walk to get a Luas into town. Was offered a lift many a time, which was nice. So there was already an excuse.

In the time I worked there, not one of my colleagues used it to get to the City centre - where they vast majority of our clients and projects were based, instead we had scenarios where sometimes 4 of my colleagues would show up in their own cars. Faffing with parking and the usual excuse for being late ("traffic is mental").

So even where quality transport is available ( I know the red line Luas has its own social issues, but no different than what I saw living I other cities abroad) people refuse to use it.

Jawgap

lxflyer wrote: »

That really says a lot about people to be honest - it's rather shocking that they got such a poor response.

I could understand it in the suburbs where people are coming from a multitude of destinations, but not in the city centre, unless many of those people required their car during the day for work?

It does sort of suggest that some kind of penalties are going to be needed to force people onto public transport in the city centre, or else simply remove the parking spaces!

Some of us would need our cars for some days during the week, but it was fairly predictable.

My own view is that people shouldn't be 'forced' to give up their cars, but they should be lured into using a mix of options - some days you take the car, or hop on the bus or when the weather improves use a bike or scooter. In short, people should encouraged to develop a mix that suits themselves - then maybe once they try a different mode they might drift towards that.

In my own case, I hopped on a bike to lose a bit of weight and decided to cycle to work. The first morning I did it I was sold! As lardy-arsed and all as I was on my ancient mountain bike, I was in work in less than 20 minutes instead of the usual 40 it took me in the car!

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

The obvious answer there is pass the full cost onto those using the car spaces.

Generally, I'd agree but if people have been recruited and signed job contracts that provided with them with 'perks' that include free parking, it's difficult to turn around and suddenly start charging them for it.

The alternative was to buy people out of their space and (I think) that was mooted but deemed to be too expensive - again probably because of the affinity the people felt for their car.

Another idea, which was suggested but died, was taxing spaces as BIK - it's done in lots of other countries (I know from experience it's done in the UK) - but for some reason we seem incapable of implementing a similar scheme here.

Dravokivich

Jawgap wrote: »

Some of us would need our cars for some days during the week, but it was fairly predictable.

My own view is that people shouldn't be 'forced' to give up their cars, but they should be lured into using a mix of options - some days you take the car, or hop on the bus or when the weather improves use a bike or scooter. In short, people should encouraged to develop a mix that suits themselves - then maybe once they try a different mode they might drift towards that.

In my own case, I hopped on a bike to lose a bit of weight and decided to cycle to work. The first morning I did it I was sold! As lardy-arsed and all as I was on my ancient mountain bike, I was in work in less than 20 minutes instead of the usual 40 it took me in the car!

I'd agree with you on that. You don't incentivise people, by penalising them for not doing what you want them to do. It needs to be more appealing, not forced onto'em.

cdebru

Muahahaha wrote: »

I'd largely agree with this, I live 9km from town and can cover it in about 24-26 minutes. The 140 bus takes about 30-33 minutes to get to town from where I am. I think any cyclist of average fitness can beat the speed of Dublin Bus over a 10km commute. Huge amounts of commuters inside the m50 could actually get quicker to their destination cycling than they can by car or bus. Just this morning when cycling on my way into town a red car passed me outside the Lidl at the junction of St.Margarets Road, the car stood out as it had snow on the roof. Roll on 6km later and I overtook him in Phibsboro. It really stood out to me how driving inside the m50 is more or less the same average speed of cycling.

I own a mototbike too and it is marginally quicker over my commute than cycling, mainly as motorbikes have such good acceleration that you often skip through traffic light sequences that are timed for cars, often on a motorbike in the city I'll get four green lights in a row whereas that just wouldn't happen in a car, you'll get two greens and the next set you meet will be red.

But in general these days I'm more likely to take the bicycle as doing so means no need to be spending 3-4 hours down the gym every week. Cycling uses my commuting time to kill two birds with the one stone- getting to where I need to go and keeping in shape.

It is a bit mad that people sit in their cars in traffic for an hour or more, for a journey that could be done in 20/30 twice a day then pay a gym hundreds of euro a year to sit on a stationary bike for a few hours a week.

lucernarian

cdebru wrote: »

It is a bit mad that people sit in their cars in traffic for an hour or more, for a journey that could be done in 20/30 twice a day then pay a gym hundreds of euro a year to sit on a stationary bike for a few hours a week.

+1

N.B. Paid-membership gyms always have showers!

Banjoxed

Geuze wrote: »

Good point.

Very difficult to convince Irish people to give up the car.

Time to resurrect the "Cooked Breakfast on the Luas" meme from 2003..

cgcsb

BoatMad wrote: »

you mean more roads in Dublin , good idea, we definitely need an eastern ring to finish the M50. with all those high sped electric cars in the next 50 years , we need to engineer our roads for better speeds too. I mean the tesla can do 0-60 in 4 secs, and its only at the start of the technology curve.

No I mean public transport infrastructure. It is the goal of DCC and the NTA to reduce car traffic not encourage it.

Pinch Flat

lucernarian wrote: »

+1

N.B. Paid-membership gyms always have showers!

Some lads in work here cycle and use the gym beside us to shower - membership is heavily subsidised so it's sbout €20/month membership.

Being honest it's no big deal not having a shower - I'm commuting by bike since 2009 and only once had an office with a shower. If you invest in decent breathable cycling clothes (especially a jacket / Jersey) sweating will be minimal. I've cycle up to 20km and work in a job where a suit is required, so no issue for me.

Chemical Byrne

corktina wrote: »

i think the use of scooters should be encouraged rather than car use. Many cars only have one occupant anyway and switching to a scooter would free up a lot of road space. Safer and quicker than a bike I would judge

Not really practical for most people. It's extra hassle having to put on/take off rain gear etc.

Any you could hardly expect a solicitor or accountant to turn up to a client meeting on a friggin vespa!

lucernarian

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

Not really practical for most people. It's extra hassle having to put on/take off rain gear etc.

Any you could hardly expect a solicitor or accountant to turn up to a client meeting on a friggin vespa!

It's a damn sight more convenient than having showers after every commute! Also people have little to be worrying about if they're looking at someone's brand of scooter in a car park outside! Why would anyone even bring that up at a meeting?

Pinch Flat

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

Not really practical for most people. It's extra hassle having to put on/take off rain gear etc.

Any you could hardly expect a solicitor or accountant to turn up to a client meeting on a friggin vespa!

Why? It's no hassle at all just takes a bit of planning and ensuring you have the correct gear.

I wouldn't see any issue with a professional turning up on a scooter - this is common place and normal in continental Europe. I would prefer this than someone arriving late by car and blaming it on lack of parking or heavy traffic. Why are we different here?

Chemical Byrne

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Why? It's no hassle at all just takes a bit of planning and ensuring you have the correct gear.

I wouldn't see any issue with a professional turning up on a scooter - this is common place and normal in continental Europe. I would prefer this than someone arriving late by car and blaming it on lack of parking or heavy traffic. Why are we different here?

I work for a consultant's and I was told about a guy there previously who was nicknamed the "Greyhound" cos he had no car and used to get around on the buses for going to meetings etc.
He was pulled aside one day by management who told him in no uncertain terms to go and get a car as you can't be rocking up to meetings with clients on a bus as it makes him and the company look bad.
It's not about practicality, it's just a cultural thing.

Pinch Flat

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

I work for a consultant's and I was told about a guy there previously who was nicknamed the "Greyhound" cos he had no car and used to get around on the buses for going to meetings etc.
He was pulled aside one day by management who told him in no uncertain terms to go and get a car as you can't be rocking up to meetings with clients on a bus as it makes him and the company look bad.
It's not about practicality, it's just a cultural thing.

I work for a professional consultancy myself - if my boss was worried about the impression I'd be making given my chosen mode of transport to arrive at meetingS or appointments I'd work elsewhere tbh.

Chemical Byrne

Pinch Flat wrote: »

I work for a professional consultancy myself - if my boss was worried about the impression I'd be making given my chosen mode of transport to arrive at meetingS or appointments I'd work elsewhere tbh.

You have a point of course, it's a trivial thing to pull someone up on.

But I can only guess that the bosses rationale was something like: this guy is supposed to be a professional and expert in his field. Our client is expecting to see someone successful, mature and professional. To be seen hopping off a bus doesn't convey that and would portray the Co. in a bad light.

Now hopping out of a dirty 2001 Corsa wouldn't convey that either would it?
Maybe he was expecting him to pull up in an S class.

Yeah it is totally stupid but that attitude is out there, a lot. This was in Cork, maybe things are different in Dublin. I was without a car for a while there last year and people would be almost taken aback and say things like "what do you mean you don't have a car?" And I later found out that people were speculating that I was off the road. "done for the bag" was the term that was used I believe. Nonsense.

lucernarian

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

I work for a consultant's and I was told about a guy there previously who was nicknamed the "Greyhound" cos he had no car and used to get around on the buses for going to meetings etc.
He was pulled aside one day by management who told him in no uncertain terms to go and get a car as you can't be rocking up to meetings with clients on a bus as it makes him and the company look bad.
It's not about practicality, it's just a cultural thing.

I know attitudes like this exist but that is genuinely over the top and tbh it doesn't seem professional to comment on anything to do with personal etiquette and perception unless the guy was showing up late while using buses... Also if the company gave a damn about particular clients that much then taxis could be used and expenses paid surely?? I don't know what kind of company you work for but this doesn't reflect the reality of my own experiences at least. Especially not in Dublin.

Edit: I see, I figured this story was from somewhere outside Dublin. I've used bus services that serve me well in rural Ireland but that doesn't stop people there looking at you almost sympathetically (if you ever told them).

Jawgap

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Some lads in work here cycle and use the gym beside us to shower - membership is heavily subsidised so it's sbout €20/month membership.

Being honest it's no big deal not having a shower - I'm commuting by bike since 2009 and only once had an office with a shower. If you invest in decent breathable cycling clothes (especially a jacket / Jersey) sweating will be minimal. I've cycle up to 20km and work in a job where a suit is required, so no issue for me.

Plus.......

.......baby wipes

Chemical Byrne

The work atmosphere in my workplace is toxic to say the least. The stress has made me lose weight and can hardly sleep worrying about stuff some nights. Constant aggression, intimidation and manipulation, jealousy, bullying. Everyone seems to be seething and itching to have a go all the time. I've seen a 6'6"ish man cry like a baby at his desk when a female colleague squared up and roared at him literally half an inch in front of his face. Even between the graduates. I'd say 30% of employees have left within the last year, even very senior people. Even management is split in two and the 2 schisms don't speak to eachother and are in a constant power struggle.

So it's hardly surprising this sort and commenting stuff goes on.

lucernarian

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

The work atmosphere in my workplace is toxic to say the least. Constant aggression, intimidation and manipulation. Even between graduates. I'd say 30% of employees have left within the last year, even very senior people. Even management is split in two and the 2 schisms don't speak to eachother and are in a constant power struggle.

So it's hardly surprising this sort and commenting stuff goes on.

Off topic I know but is it a multinational or Irish owned/listed company?

Chemical Byrne

lucernarian wrote: »

Off topic I know but is it a multinational or Irish owned/listed company?

Mutlinational.
To look at the HR bit of the website you'd think it was a great place to work.

Pinch Flat

Don't get get me wrong - if my boss paid for a fully expensed s class merc is gladly drive it about

Pinch Flat

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

Mutlinational.
To look at the HR bit of the website you'd think it was a great place to work.

Don't want to stay too far off topic - but Being honest i'd move jobs. I know the jobs market is not hectic at the moment in some industries, but if it's what you've described above it looks like a place you're better off being shot of. No workplace should have the potential to damage your physical or emotional health to that extent.

Dravokivich

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Don't get get me wrong - if my boss paid for a fully expensed s class merc is gladly drive it about

Now now, that's not on. Sure they're paying for the merc, you may as well pay someone to drive you in it.

whisky_galore

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

I work for a consultant's and I was told about a guy there previously who was nicknamed the "Greyhound" cos he had no car and used to get around on the buses for going to meetings etc.
He was pulled aside one day by management who told him in no uncertain terms to go and get a car as you can't be rocking up to meetings with clients on a bus as it makes him and the company look bad.
It's not about practicality, it's just a cultural thing.

As long as he was on time for the meetings and looked presentable, I can't see what the issue was.

cgcsb

Dunno if I buy the greyhound story. Firstly because greyhound is a bus operator in North America, secondly because when I meet clients they rarely ask how I arrived, much less see me arriving. Thirdly its harassment in the workplace and the employer is open to a claim. But most of all, do Irish people think like that???

Aard

The story seems a bit embellished, but in certain industries there would be an unspoken expectation to have an outward appearance of success at every turn. Still, in central Dublin I'd be surprised if anybody ever made a comment about coming into work/meetings on bus/bike/luas/what-have-you.

Jawgap

Aard wrote: »

The story seems a bit embellished, but in certain industries there would be an unspoken expectation to have an outward appearance of success at every turn. Still, in central Dublin I'd be surprised if anybody ever made a comment about coming into work/meetings on bus/bike/luas/what-have-you.

To be honest, I work in a consultancy and arriving by Dublin Bike is a fairly 'chic' way to arrive.

Aard

Aard wrote: »

The story seems a bit embellished, but in certain industries there would be an unspoken expectation to have an outward appearance of success at every turn. Still, in central Dublin I'd be surprised if anybody ever made a comment about coming into work/meetings on bus/bike/luas/what-have-you.

In central London, it would be assumed that you arrived by public transport unless otherwise stated and no one would give it a second thought.

Hotblack Desiato

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

Not really practical for most people. It's extra hassle having to put on/take off rain gear etc.

It's hassle having to take a raincoat on and off. Are these guys allowed walk anywhere?

BMW (and I'm sure others) do motorcycle clothing which is designed to be worn with a suit, shirt and tie underneath

Any you could hardly expect a solicitor or accountant to turn up to a client meeting on a friggin vespa!

That's just snobbery tbh. Their clients should be wondering why they're paying such high fees so the solicitors/accountants can waste it on maintaining an 'image'.

Muahahaha

Its funny, every second moped driver you see on the streets of Rome is wearing a suit, I'm sure some of them are lawyers and accountants.

There can sometimes be a sense of keeping up appearances in Ireland. I think it comes from the Irish mammy who is always obsessing about what others would be thinking or saying about them behind their back.