Considering a move to Australia

Gill_Murph

Hi,

I'm a 21 year old Irish female considering, like many others, the big move to Australia.

My background is I studied business for 3 years after dropping out due to finances and the grant system making my life extremely difficult. Since then I have been working from one dead end job to the next. From cleaning rooms in a hotel, to waitressing, to working as a kitchen porter to working in a deli, shop assistant, and collecting glasses in a nightclub. Due to it being a quiet period of the year I don't have much work on, which is driving me crazy!

What are the chances of me moving over there and actually getting a job without a degree?

It's great being a man. They can walk onto a building site and not be discriminated against.

Someone tell me what I should do? Living day to day not working is slowly driving me nuts!

Thanking in advance

Zambia

Get a qualication before you come here if you want the option of staying.

endacl

^^
This. Check what professions/trades are in short supply before you decide what to do. If you go unqualified you can expect to enjoy your time on a WH visa before coming back to exactly what you left in the first place.

Alternatively, you could explore options to study in Australia. Your student visa will allow you to work limited hours to support your stay.

GarIT

Gill_Murph wrote: »

Hi,

I'm a 21 year old Irish female considering, like many others, the big move to Australia.

My background is I studied business for 3 years after dropping out due to finances and the grant system making my life extremely difficult. Since then I have been working from one dead end job to the next. From cleaning rooms in a hotel, to waitressing, to working as a kitchen porter to working in a deli, shop assistant, and collecting glasses in a nightclub. Due to it being a quiet period of the year I don't have much work on, which is driving me crazy!

What are the chances of me moving over there and actually getting a job without a degree?

It's great being a man. They can walk onto a building site and not be discriminated against.

Someone tell me what I should do? Living day to day not working is slowly driving me nuts!

Thanking in advance

The jobs you listed are the same jobs that are going in Australia.

About the building site, you need to do an apprenticeship or get a degree in a relevant area and do safety certificates as would any male. If you do that and are able for the heavy lifting there wont be any problems.

LucidLife

From reading the OP my advice is stay where you are. If a guy wrote "Its great being a woman" he would be casterated! You a woman have the same rights and opportunities on a site if not more than a guy. Do a tiny bit of research and you'll see lots of companies are actively seeking women to drive/operate equipment (as they take better care of said equipment). But as someone says the jobs are the same just thousands of miles away from anyone you know. I

pete4130

A good option if you wanted to work in construction.mining over here is to get your HR (Heavy Rigid) or MR (Medium Rigid) licence. There is a demand for female drivers to drive big construction equipment on mine sites. Statistics have shown women have a better safety record and higher productivity.
The only catch is that you'd come here on a WHV and no big companies/mining sites will take on people that are on a WHV.

It is best to have some sort of recognised qualification or skill thats in short supply here before making the move.

Gill_Murph

Thanks for all the replies. Maybe the point I was making about men being able to walk onto a building site and get a job no problem was irrelevant. But it just seems that many Irish male that has travelled to Australia just seems to have "walked into a job". Whereas females traveling (if said female hasn't a degree or qualification) seems to find it 10 times harder to survive.

I may not have a degree or qualifications but I'm just as much of a hard worker if not a harder worker than the next person. But that doesn't seem to matter without a piece of paper saying you've studied for 4 years and have forgotten everything you've learned in the two weeks after graduating, but does this mean that me or anyone else in my situation wouldn't be able to get a job?

pete4130

You should still be able to find a job without a qualification. It might take a bit longer or maybe not pay as well though.

Being on a WHV you can only work with an employer for 6 months maximum. This is the reason some companies don't want to invest their time and money employing somebody, training them up etc if they know they are on a WHV and will have to leave after 6 months. Some ads will state they only want people with permanent Aus or NZ status to deter WHV even applying.

Check out www.seek.com.au and see what jobs are available that you'd like to do. It will give you some indication of whats out there, what companies are looking for etc

brandnewaward

try traffic controlling ........money is savage but boring as ****e

AngryHippie

Gill_Murph wrote: »

does this mean that me or anyone else in my situation wouldn't be able to get a job?

Not at all.
People with a good work ethic will generally have no problem getting jobs once they 'have' a job. It may take some time to get a break, and may need some luck, as there are plenty of highly motivated people who have been unlucky and it hasn't worked out they way they had hoped.

Having a degree takes luck out of the equation for the most part. The biggest issue will be visa conditions.

On a Working holiday visa, you can spend a maximum of 6 months with any 1 employer, and have a visa to work and holiday for 12 months from date of entry. If you satisfy the conditions for a second year (3 months primary industry/regional work) then you have a second 12 months. IN that second year, you can work for the original employer for a further 6 months.
That however, is all she wrote for a WHV. It's not very appealing to employers, as best case it is 6 months on, 6 months off then cheerio, so it's not really worth putting any training or cost against an employee on this visa.
Working holiday is a once in a lifetime, so if you are serious about moving here, it's a good way to get a taste for the place, but not the best way to start a full move here on a permanent basis.

Unfortunately it may be too expensive to do it as a student, as you'd be able to get RPL (Recognition of Prior Learning) for all of the business modules you have completed and do complete your degree while you are at it.
(It may be possible to do this after 2 years of WHV without having to pay the non-commonwealth fees, as they are exorbitant). It's definitely worth looking into.

It's not all hunky dory for men over here either. unless you are a skilled operator or have a lot of site experience and some good connections, it can be tough to get that initial break, and many of the locations are not on the "fun Australia" trail and they are all hard yakka.

endacl

Gill_Murph wrote: »

I may not have a degree or qualifications but I'm just as much of a hard worker if not a harder worker than the next person. But that doesn't seem to matter without a piece of paper saying you've studied for 4 years and have forgotten everything you've learned in the two weeks after graduating, but does this mean that me or anyone else in my situation wouldn't be able to get a job?

I'd adjust the attitude slightly. In all likelihood whoever is interviewing you, either here or there, will value qualifications. And will probably hold at least one.

Probably a bit off topic, but you're starting to come across as a bit 'sour-grapesey'.

jank

Gill_Murph wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies. Maybe the point I was making about men being able to walk onto a building site and get a job no problem was irrelevant. But it just seems that many Irish male that has travelled to Australia just seems to have "walked into a job". Whereas females traveling (if said female hasn't a degree or qualification) seems to find it 10 times harder to survive.

I may not have a degree or qualifications but I'm just as much of a hard worker if not a harder worker than the next person. But that doesn't seem to matter without a piece of paper saying you've studied for 4 years and have forgotten everything you've learned in the two weeks after graduating, but does this mean that me or anyone else in my situation wouldn't be able to get a job?

To be honest, how do you know? You don't as you have never been in Australia and tried to find work, so off the bat you are being overly negative and dare I say it, have a certain entitled attitude.

Look, by all means come to Australia and see what the place is like but you are 21 for crying out loud with no qualifications or highly employable skills. What do you expect? I was doing all kinds of crap jobs when I was 21, when I was studying or when I left collage, as did most people then. Tiger Cubs seem to have a different attitude I find. If you come over here though you will almost certainly be doing the same type of jobs here as you are doing currently.

Maybe you are realising that life is not handed to you on a plate. No one owes you anything and if you do not realise that now, then come over and you will realise in about a week after you touch down. Travelling can be a life changing experience for many, it can make them in many ways and appreciate how good they actually had it at home but wasted all that time moaning and being pissed off with life.

To be honest, you need to look long term and the big picture. Personally I would advise you to go back and finish your course. No if's and but, just do it. You are almost there. If you cant afford it, take out a loan and pay it back. Will probably be the best investment you will ever make. Don't blame your grant, the state or whomever for the fact that you 'can't do it. It will stand to you and will be a entry into a job or another course that WILL be highly valued here and elsewhere where you can make a good living. So stop being pissed off about your predicament and go doing something about it.

Lastly, Australia is not a panacea, nowhere is. Change the attitude, get your qualification and get some experience then use your WHV to its full potential.

Sorry for being blunt, but I think you need it.

blinding

Try to get some qualifications.

Ireland, Australia already have all the idiots that they need.

You are still very young and without children. How much do you actually need to live on for a few years.

Some sacrifices now will mean a much better standard of living for the rest of your life.

AngryHippie

jank wrote: »

To be honest, how do you know?

Sorry for being blunt, but I think you need it.

Good call.

That being said though, if there is anywhere in the world that "have a go" brass necked hard working chancers have done well, its Australia.

Mehaffey1

Go to NZ. Any young person willing to work and shows they can will do well. 90% of the local young people are the biggest slackers I've ever seen . Qualifications are another bonus really.

Zambia

Gill_Murph wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies. Maybe the point I was making about men being able to walk onto a building site and get a job no problem was irrelevant. But it just seems that many Irish male that has travelled to Australia just seems to have "walked into a job". Whereas females traveling (if said female hasn't a degree or qualification) seems to find it 10 times harder to survive.

I may not have a degree or qualifications but I'm just as much of a hard worker if not a harder worker than the next person. But that doesn't seem to matter without a piece of paper saying you've studied for 4 years and have forgotten everything you've learned in the two weeks after graduating, but does this mean that me or anyone else in my situation wouldn't be able to get a job?

Gill , sadly the stories that come back from Australia are told by people who want you to believe it was awesome.

The sad luck stories tend not to be told as far and wide. Many do come here and go home jobless and out of funds.

If you are a hard grafter and pro active in finding a job you will get one but it will be at a skill level you are at now. The opportunity to advance here is very good people are escalated very quickly. If they are seen to be able to do the job.

Here is the kicker, without a degree or qualification you cant stay your employer as much as they want to cant keep you on.

There is always the chance a relationship visa may appear but thats not something you can plan for.

Gill_Murph

I know I have come across as bitter and "sour - grapesy" in this post and I do apologize for that. It's just the lack of work here is driving me crazy.

I have no problem doing any kind of work no matter how hard the work is, as long as I am working. But right now I'm only working 4 hours on a Saturday night and I'm just frustrated so apologies again for my attitude but I'm sure some of you can relate to my frustration.

The reason why Australia has come to mind is I have two brothers working over in Newcastle and they seem to be living the dream. They have been there 5 years now and I miss them so much.

What I don't understand is they got there 1year WHV and went on to get a second WHV, both aren't qualified or have any papers, they are both working with the same company since they've moved over there. Did they just get lucky or have regulations changed since then? Now I know they got sponsored after there second WHV but should they not of had to change companies after six months, as some of you said, in the first year?

pete4130

Your first port of call would be your brothers and find out how they managed to stay. Only they can answer your questions about their own situations.

jank

Gill_Murph wrote: »

I know I have come across as bitter and "sour - grapesy" in this post and I do apologize for that. It's just the lack of work here is driving me crazy.

I have no problem doing any kind of work no matter how hard the work is, as long as I am working. But right now I'm only working 4 hours on a Saturday night and I'm just frustrated so apologies again for my attitude but I'm sure some of you can relate to my frustration.

The reason why Australia has come to mind is I have two brothers working over in Newcastle and they seem to be living the dream. They have been there 5 years now and I miss them so much.

What I don't understand is they got there 1year WHV and went on to get a second WHV, both aren't qualified or have any papers, they are both working with the same company since they've moved over there. Did they just get lucky or have regulations changed since then? Now I know they got sponsored after there second WHV but should they not of had to change companies after six months, as some of you said, in the first year?

You should channel the frustration into something positive. If you are only working 4 hours a week, then what are you doing the other 6 and a half days? Use that time to up skill in any way shape or form. Think of it this way. You are 21 now and don't like your life. Do you want to wake up in 20 years time and be doing the same thing? I guess not. Its a wake up call, use it.

The thing is though you have a huge advantage (two actually, being born in the west is one!). That advantage is time. You have plenty of time to be worrying about living the good life. You should concentrate on spending the next few years upskilling and getting qualified in your field and worry about the 'good life' until then.

If you don't want formal education and want to be educated in 'life' then pack your bags and go to London. You should easily get full time work there.

If you are keen on Australia maybe visit your brothers first as a holiday.

catbear

For what it's worth when I was 21 there was high unemployment in Ireland (20% in my home town) i did a working holiday in the US and that focused me for when I returned and helped me complete my studies which led to opportunities, including where I am two decades later.

I too considered myself a hard worker but like you i was frustrated by lack of opportunity. Do a working holiday in Australia, at least you have your brothers to help you and you might see how linear the skilled job market can be here.

Also when I went to the US I thought I'd never want to go back to ireland but when I realised how tough it was without qualifications there (a lot of friends stayed on and became legal under the Morrison visa but that was pre 9/11) i appreciated what I had in Ireland and used an adult education grant when I was 23.

I know how frustrating it can be but with another perspective you may see a clear way forward. Best of luck.

Panda_Turtle

Gill_Murph wrote: »

What I don't understand is they got there 1year WHV and went on to get a second WHV, both aren't qualified or have any papers, they are both working with the same company since they've moved over there. Did they just get lucky or have regulations changed since then? Now I know they got sponsored after there second WHV but should they not of had to change companies after six months, as some of you said, in the first year?

Thought I read here that the rules for sponsorship etc became more stringent, around 2011 or so. Also some companies operate as an umbrella - so could have multiple companies - a way of circumventing the six month rule.

You'd probably have to become one of the professions listed on the csol or preferably the sol - and this can change every year so no guarantees!

AngryHippie

Panda_Turtle wrote: »

Thought I read here that the rules for sponsorship etc became more stringent, around 2011 or so. Also some companies operate as an umbrella - so could have multiple companies - a way of circumventing the six month rule.

You'd probably have to become one of the professions listed on the csol or preferably the sol - and this can change every year so no guarantees!

They didn't change much, they just increased the level of inspections on WHV and started checking that people were actually performing the work they were being sponsored to do.
6 month rule never applied to sponsorship visas.

The rule about the 6 months on WHV has been the same since I got here in '08.
Sister companies with different ABNs or ACNs would technically be able to re-employ, which may explain it, but if payroll tax etc. were coming from the same original business, then it could come apart. I'm fairly sure the ATO and IMMI don't do too much cross referencing, but if a business came under the spotlight for rorting WHV or sponsorship, then I'm certain there would be a pooling of information to prosecute.

SOL, CSOL, Student and Defacto are the options I can see.

De-facto being the easiest to get (in concept) but one of the hardest to get (in terms of the burden of proof and length of time from start to finish (It can take up to 3 years for PR)) I wouldn't do it just for a visa, there are too many drop-kicks and dead-****s in Australian Society (No offense to the 20 million or so outstanding citizens) that would be prepared to do a long play for half of your stuff and a centrelink cheque. On the other hand, if love comes to town......

Student probably being the most expensive (Fees for overseas students are hefty)

SOL and CSOL being least likely in terms of the qualifications and experience that you have indicated above. Never say never though.

ArseBurger

Gill_Murph wrote: »

I have no problem doing any kind of work no matter how hard the work is

http://www.irishjobs.ie/Jobs/Cabin-Crew-No-experience-necessary-7453539.aspx

No experience necessary. And you get to travel.

AngryHippie

Thats a little bit cynical, considering the number of horror stories that have come out of that particular job. Particularly if you're trying to work and save money. Each to their own though

A link to http://webjet.com would be a better place to start.